Senior Living Facility...Why Not?

[BSR]

6 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Assisted living in Mexico is much more affordable than in the US, and can be very pleasant. A huge caveat, along with the caveat of living on a cruise ship  for the rest of your life (which is more expensive, of course), is that Medicare offers no coverage outside the US, so one would presumably have to get some sort of Mexican insurance policy, which could be pricy if one is old and in bad health, or be prepared to pay cash (usually not too bad in Mexico). Of course, contracting out certain services is probably quite illegal. And once a month wouldn't do it for many. Some of the most popular areas for Americans to spend their final days with assisted living include Ajijic and San Miguel de Allende, which are very pleasant places known for their equable climate. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckbolotin/2019/01/17/what-so-many-americans-find-so-appealing-about-retiring-to-ajijic-lake-chapala-mexico/?sh=5b7d0ab1012a

https://www.accesslakechapala.com/guide/living-costs/

 

The full-time cruise ship life is more a lovely fantasy than a serious plan.  More brass tacks is the possibility of returning to the Philippines, even though I haven't been back in more than 5 decades. 

I could sell my place here, buy a very nice place in Baguio (where my uncle and 5 cousins all live, and where the daily high temperature is 75° year round), and have plenty left over.  In the Philippines, a full-time "katulong" ("helper," I think) costs only $40/month plus room/board.  No labor laws cover katulongs, meaning they work morning, noon, and night, 7 days a week (only Sunday afternoons off) -- cooking, cleaning, driving, landscaping, whatever.  My grandmother had two, one for cooking & cleaning and another for physical assistance (wheeling her around, getting dressed, bathing, etc.).  From an American perspective, yes, it's horrible exploitation.  But bear in mind there is no social safety net in the Philippines.  For millions of Filipinos, it's life as a katulong or homelessness.  If you think being homeless here is bad, imagine in a 3rd World country.

Even without Medicare, I'm pretty sure the math works out that the Philippines is a better option.  Even if you pay out of pocket, medical costs are a fraction what they are here.  Plus I'd have lots of family around me in Baguio (I'd just have to get used to the Noah's Ark rainy season).  However, I have plenty of reservations about it.  I have a 100% American mindset, and some things about Filipino culture & society drive me up the wall.  I'd have to re-learn Tagalog, which shouldn't be too difficult (I still understand it pretty well), but I dread learning a language at my age.  Most important, I'd miss the good old USofA like crazy.  Oh yeah, one more thing, there's the eensie weensie issue of the current dictator.  Even when Duterte goes, the possibility of another tyrant taking over is uncomfortably high.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, BSR said:

...I could sell my place here, buy a very nice place in Baguio (where my uncle and 5 cousins all live, and where the daily high temperature is 75° year round), and have plenty left over...I'd just have to get used to the Noah's Ark rainy season).... I'd have to re-learn Tagalog....

Just looked that city up on Wikipedia. You're not kidding about the Noah's ark. One can expect over 3 METERS or 10 FEET of rain during the rainy season from April/May to October: " the city has an extraordinary amount of precipitation during the rainy season... The city averages over 3,100 mm (122 in) of precipitation annually." 😱 It probably makes the city nearly uninhabitable from late Spring to early Fall! Also, I don't know if learning Tagalog would be that helpful in that city (though useful in other parts of the country): "The languages commonly spoken in Baguio are Ibaloi, Kankana-ey and Ifugao. Ilocano, Tagalog and English are also understood by many inhabitants within and around the city."

I took care of quite a few immigrants from the Philippines when I worked as a doctor, and I can assure you that there are plenty of them who don't speak Tagalog (though some spoke English). Although commonly spoken in Manila and Quezon City, most Filipinos don't have a good understanding of Tagalog. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_Philippines

[BSR]

51 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

Just looked that city up on Wikipedia. You're not kidding about the Noah's ark. One can expect over 3 METERS or 10 FEET of rain during the rainy season from April/May to October: " the city has an extraordinary amount of precipitation during the rainy season... The city averages over 3,100 mm (122 in) of precipitation annually." 😱 It probably makes the city nearly uninhabitable from late Spring to early Fall! Also, I don't know if learning Tagalog would be that helpful in that city (though useful in other parts of the country): "The languages commonly spoken in Baguio are Ibaloi, Kankana-ey and Ifugao. Ilocano, Tagalog and English are also understood by many inhabitants within and around the city."

I took care of quite a few immigrants from the Philippines when I worked as a doctor, and I can assure you that there are plenty of them who don't speak Tagalog (though some spoke English). Although commonly spoken in Manila and Quezon City, most Filipinos don't have a good understanding of Tagalog. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_Philippines

My aunt & uncle decided to raise my cousins as bilingual English-Tagalog.  They spoke to the kids exclusively in English but sent them to Tagalog schools.  Oddly enough, even though all 5 are grateful to speak English as a native tongue, none of my cousins are raising their kids as bilingual.  I never asked why since I assumed it was a delicate subject.

I never researched what languages are spoken in Baguio.  I just assumed it was Tagalog-speaking because that's what all my cousins speak.  You're right, I wouldn't really need to (re)learn Tagalog, whether in Baguio or Manila (where an aunt lives).  I follow a Mexican YouTuber who lives in Manila yet knows maybe 10 words in Tagalog.  He gets by just fine with just English & Spanish:  English on the job (he's a dentist; Manilans are used to speaking English with their healthcare providers) and Spanish socially (with other expats from Spanish-speaking countries; no Filipinos speak Spanish as a native tongue any more).  My aunt in Manila tells me plenty of retirees move to Manila knowing just English & don't bother to learn Tagalog. 

With my parents' generation, good English was very much a sign of social class because wealthy Filipinos sent their kids to schools with the best English instruction.  Nowadays, good English might mean you went to good schools, or just that your parents could afford cable TV.  For better or for worse, Filipino kids grow up watching trashy American TV shows -- American Idol, Survivor, even (eek!!) The Kardashians. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by BSR

[+ Charlie]

18 hours ago, BSR said:

The full-time cruise ship life is more a lovely fantasy than a serious plan.  More brass tacks is the possibility of returning to the Philippines, even though I haven't been back in more than 5 decades. 

I could sell my place here, buy a very nice place in Baguio (where my uncle and 5 cousins all live, and where the daily high temperature is 75° year round), and have plenty left over.  In the Philippines, a full-time "katulong" ("helper," I think) costs only $40/month plus room/board.  No labor laws cover katulongs, meaning they work morning, noon, and night, 7 days a week (only Sunday afternoons off) -- cooking, cleaning, driving, landscaping, whatever.  My grandmother had two, one for cooking & cleaning and another for physical assistance (wheeling her around, getting dressed, bathing, etc.).  From an American perspective, yes, it's horrible exploitation.  But bear in mind there is no social safety net in the Philippines.  For millions of Filipinos, it's life as a katulong or homelessness.  If you think being homeless here is bad, imagine in a 3rd World country.

Even without Medicare, I'm pretty sure the math works out that the Philippines is a better option.  Even if you pay out of pocket, medical costs are a fraction what they are here.  Plus I'd have lots of family around me in Baguio (I'd just have to get used to the Noah's Ark rainy season).  However, I have plenty of reservations about it.  I have a 100% American mindset, and some things about Filipino culture & society drive me up the wall.  I'd have to re-learn Tagalog, which shouldn't be too difficult (I still understand it pretty well), but I dread learning a language at my age.  Most important, I'd miss the good old USofA like crazy.  Oh yeah, one more thing, there's the eensie weensie issue of the current dictator.  Even when Duterte goes, the possibility of another tyrant taking over is uncomfortably high.

And what does a katulong do when he/she needs a fulltime caregiver?

[+ nycman]

28 minutes ago, Charlie said:

And what does a katulong do when he/she needs a fulltime caregiver?

They die. 

Have you never been to the 3rd world?

[BSR]

18 minutes ago, Charlie said:

And what does a katulong do when he/she needs a fulltime caregiver?

To an American, a katulong's life might sound horrible, but in many cases, it's not that bad, certainly orders of magnitude better than homelessness and starvation.  While $40/month is very little money, keep in mind that a katulong has no expenses.  They get room & board as standard compensation.  Most katulongs get clothes and shoes as gifts from their employer.  If the katulong works out well (a good katulong is hard to find), the family will often pay for the katulong's medical expenses, which is huge in the Philippines.  Remember, the Philippines has no social safety net.  If you need a medical care but don't have money, too bad, you die.  Harsh, but that's 3rd World reality. 

After many years with a good family, a katulong becomes part of the family.  The katulong who basically raised my mother and her 5 siblings lived with my uncle in Baguio for almost a decade after she was too old to work.  He even brought her with him to America, where she got to see San Francisco, New York, and Disney World.  And in her final days when she needed a full-time caregiver, my uncle's 2 katulongs took care of her.  One of my uncle's current katulongs has also become part of the family.  She's older & won't be working much longer.  I imagine she'll get the same arrangement, living with my uncle, who will take care of her medical expenses and will make sure she gets a full-time caregiver should she need it.

[+ Charlie]

31 minutes ago, BSR said:

To an American, a katulong's life might sound horrible, but in many cases, it's not that bad, certainly orders of magnitude better than homelessness and starvation.  While $40/month is very little money, keep in mind that a katulong has no expenses.  They get room & board as standard compensation.  Most katulongs get clothes and shoes as gifts from their employer.  If the katulong works out well (a good katulong is hard to find), the family will often pay for the katulong's medical expenses, which is huge in the Philippines.  Remember, the Philippines has no social safety net.  If you need a medical care but don't have money, too bad, you die.  Harsh, but that's 3rd World reality. 

After many years with a good family, a katulong becomes part of the family.  The katulong who basically raised my mother and her 5 siblings lived with my uncle in Baguio for almost a decade after she was too old to work.  He even brought her with him to America, where she got to see San Francisco, New York, and Disney World.  And in her final days when she needed a full-time caregiver, my uncle's 2 katulongs took care of her.  One of my uncle's current katulongs has also become part of the family.  She's older & won't be working much longer.  I imagine she'll get the same arrangement, living with my uncle, who will take care of her medical expenses and will make sure she gets a full-time caregiver should she need it.

It sounds good, but I can't help hearing echoes of the claims ante-bellum slaveowners always made about what a benevolent institution slavery was for their beloved house slaves. What happens to those katulongs who don't have ideal employers like your family?

[+ Charlie]

59 minutes ago, nycman said:

They die. 

Have you never been to the 3rd world?

Yes, I have spent time in the slums of Indian cities like Calcutta.

[+ WilliamM]

35 minutes ago, Charlie said:

Yes, I have spent time in the slums of Indian cities like Calcutta.

Bosnia just after  the war with Serbia and South Vietnam in the 1960s

 

And certainly parts of Brazil, especially the large cities (circa 1974 and 199)

 

War sucks 😑😑 poverty as well.

Edited September 29, 2021 by WilliamM

[BSR]

1 hour ago, Charlie said:

It sounds good, but I can't help hearing echoes of the claims ante-bellum slaveowners always made about what a benevolent institution slavery was for their beloved house slaves. What happens to those katulongs who don't have ideal employers like your family?

To be honest, I don't know.  But contrary to what @nycman says, I doubt katulongs who cannot take care of themselves just die.  While the Philippines has no social safety net, the Filipino custom is that if you cannot take care of yourself, someone will take you in, even someone you have little or no relationship with.

If a katulong does not have a good enough relationship with her employer, my guess is that she reaches out to her family or goes back to her home town or old neighborhood.  Someone will take her in, even a distant relative or someone from her town who simply has the means to take someone in.

But (had to be a "but," right?) if the katulong needs expensive medical care (and "expensive" in the Philippines is a pretty low bar), she probably meets the same fate as other Filipinos who don't have money for a doctor:  too bad, you die.

Edited September 29, 2021 by BSR
Typo

[+ WilliamM]

48 minutes ago, Charlie said:

It sounds good, but I can't help hearing echoes of the claims ante-bellum slaveowners always made about what a benevolent institution slavery was for their beloved house slaves. What happens to those katulongs who don't have ideal employers like your family?

The ante-bellum  South a bit off topic, don't you think?