HIV and Escorts

[Monarchy79]

Is it me, or does it sound like the commenters are more concerned with protecting the identity, image, and life of the person who infected the OP, than they are with the OP? 
 

Let’s be clear: This isn’t about HIV stigma, shaming sex workers, or anti-sex-positivity. 
 

let’s focus on the bare bones:

1.) The OP and the partner have been frequently having sex.

2.) During this entire time, the partner has LIED to him, telling him he is negative.

3.) The OP then finds out he is positive

4.) When questioning his sex partner, the partner now reveals that he has lied to him about his status all along. 
 

That’s dishonest, wrong, and is a felony in many states. Point, blank, period. 
 

My heart goes out to the OP. ♥️

Edited July 23, 2021 by Monarchy79
Typos

[Guest davebk]

I don't think you want to open the door to the legal stuff, or threatening to out him or any of that stuff.  It isn't going to be helpful, and I think it doesn't really bring justice anyway.  

None of us can tell you what to do, but I can tell you what I would do.  It would be one honest, direct note to him that said:

- I'm responsible for my own health, and I trusted you when I was clearly wrong to do so.  

- I can't do much about it now, and need to focus on myself and my own health.

- What you did was wrong, and you need to figure out why you would allow yourself to do this to other people and need to get some care for your mental health and re-examine your own life.

- You have a responsibility to inform people of your status, including publicly if you are engaging in sex work.  Not doing so is immoral and wrong.

- This is the last you'll hear from me.  You did me wrong, it's time you start doing the right thing.

 

Then I'd focus on yourself and move forward.  

[+ José Soplanucas]

7 hours ago, caliguy said:

if gay men were involved they'd change that over night. Also the more red the state is the more draconian the law is. 

I am not sure. Many gay men are miserable human beens who would report this guy in a blink, no matter his circumstances.

[+ José Soplanucas]

8 hours ago, Monarchy79 said:

This isn’t about HIV stigma, shaming sex workers, or anti-sex-positivity. 

Let's be clear: I disagree.

[Monarchy79]

37 minutes ago, latbear4blk said:

Let's be clear: I disagree.

Let’s also be clear:

You quoted a snippet of my statement that you disagree with, and intentionally omitted the rest of my posting that supported that statement. 
 

 

 

[+ José Soplanucas]

2 minutes ago, Monarchy79 said:

Let’s also be clear:

You quoted a snippet of my statement that you disagree with, and intentionally omitted the rest of my posting that supported that statement. 
 

 

 

Correct. Obviously, your arguments do not convince me. You jump too quickly to judge one of the parties without knowing both sides of the story. 

[Monarchy79]

I have a hypothetical question:

Let’s say that I have been having sex with a guy for the past year, throughout the entire pandemic. He tells me that he has not been vaccinated, but I tell him that I am vaccinated, so it’s cool to hook up. 
months later, he catches COVID, is in the hospital, barely makes it out, and later asks me if I’m sure I was vaxed, because he contracted it. I later tell him “my bad, I lied to you, and never was vaccinated, and tested positive for COVID, but never endured any complications. 
 

Are you all telling me that I hold absolutely no responsibility in this scenario? 

[+ José Soplanucas]

6 minutes ago, Monarchy79 said:

I have a hypothetical question:

Let’s say that I have been having sex with a guy for the past year, throughout the entire pandemic. He tells me that he has not been vaccinated, but I tell him that I am vaccinated, so it’s cool to hook up. 
months later, he catches COVID, is in the hospital, barely makes it out, and later asks me if I’m sure I was vaxed, because he contracted it. I later tell him “my bad, I lied to you, and never was vaccinated, and tested positive for COVID, but never endured any complications. 
 

Are you all telling me that I hold absolutely no responsibility in this scenario? 

Please, read my posts more carefully. I clearly stated that the escort acted wrongly. I am not justifying his actions or saying he has not responsibility.

The fact that you are misreading what I clearly wrote, allows me to think that this IS about HIV stigmatization and sex negativity.

[Monarchy79]

1 minute ago, latbear4blk said:

Correct. Obviously, your arguments do not convince me. You jump too quickly to judge one of the parties without knowing both sides of the story. 

Ahhhhh, 

I now remember your “trigger”, from past forums where we have clashed…. The myth of “judgment”. 

I’ll just say this:

1.) Judgment is a part of life. In very general terms, judgment is simply a conclusion or an assessment, drawn from observation. we all make judgments from what we observed. You in fact, made a judgment towards the comment I posed on this forum. And that’s okay. There’s nothing wrong with that. We all make judgments. 
 

2.) Here’s another thing… accountability is a part of life as well. All of our actions have either benefits, consequences, rewards, or punishments. The OP’s actions had consequences. He has come to grooms with that. However the other party in this scenario also has actions. He has not been held accountable for his actions. Your belief that a person who intentionally lied to another sex partner about a health condition, when asked, is wrong. It’s wrong because it’s deceptive. It’s wrong because it’s dishonest. There’s no other way to shape it. 
 

if you’re telling me that it’s okay for someone to flat out lie to a sex partner (when) about the status of ANY transmissible health condition, and give it to them, then we will always disagree. 
 

 

1 minute ago, latbear4blk said:

Please, read my posts more carefully. I clearly stated that the escort acted wrongly. I am not justifying his actions or saying he has not responsibility.

The fact that you are misreading what I clearly wrote, allows me to think that this IS about HIV stigmatization and sex negativity.

My hypothetical scenario wasn’t directed as a response to your post. 
 

[Monarchy79]

4 minutes ago, Monarchy79 said:

hypothetical

 

5 minutes ago, Monarchy79 said:

Ahhhhh, 

I now remember your “trigger”, from past forums where we have clashed…. The myth of “judgment”. 

I’ll just say this:

1.) Judgment is a part of life. In very general terms, judgment is simply a conclusion or an assessment, drawn from observation. we all make judgments from what we observed. You in fact, made a judgment towards the comment I posed on this forum. And that’s okay. There’s nothing wrong with that. We all make judgments. 
 

2.) Here’s another thing… accountability is a part of life as well. All of our actions have either benefits, consequences, rewards, or punishments. The OP’s actions had consequences. He has come to grooms with that. However the other party in this scenario also has actions. He has not been held accountable for his actions. Your belief that a person who intentionally lied to another sex partner about a health condition, when asked, is wrong. It’s wrong because it’s deceptive. It’s wrong because it’s dishonest. There’s no other way to shape it. 
 

if you’re telling me that it’s okay for someone to flat out lie to a sex partner (when) about the status of ANY transmissible health condition, and give it to them, then we will always disagree. 
 

 

My hypothetical scenario wasn’t directed as a response to your post. 
 

Edit: The OP came to “terms”, with the consequences, not to “grooms”.

I willingly accept any judgment imposed  from that typo….. 

[+ José Soplanucas]

12 minutes ago, Monarchy79 said:

Ahhhhh, 

I now remember your “trigger”, from past forums where we have clashed…. The myth of “judgment”. 

I’ll just say this:

1.) Judgment is a part of life. In very general terms, judgment is simply a conclusion or an assessment, drawn from observation. we all make judgments from what we observed. You in fact, made a judgment towards the comment I posed on this forum. And that’s okay. There’s nothing wrong with that. We all make judgments. 
 

2.) Here’s another thing… accountability is a part of life as well. All of our actions have either benefits, consequences, rewards, or punishments. The OP’s actions had consequences. He has come to grooms with that. However the other party in this scenario also has actions. He has not been held accountable for his actions. Your belief that a person who intentionally lied to another sex partner about a health condition, when asked, is wrong. It’s wrong because it’s deceptive. It’s wrong because it’s dishonest. There’s no other way to shape it. 
 

if you’re telling me that it’s okay for someone to flat out lie to a sex partner (when) about the status of ANY transmissible health condition, and give it to them, then we will always disagree. 
 

 

My hypothetical scenario wasn’t directed as a response to your post. 
 

Hey, I am not triggered this time. I insist, you are misreading my posts. You are running to judge and "held accountable" someone after hearing only one part of the story. You repeat that I said it is OK to lie, which is only in your imagination. You are suggesting that this man should be reported if he has committed a felony. If that is not HIV stigmatization and sex negativity, we may just have very different mindsets. 

Anyways, I do not really care about having a debate with you. I was trying to give advise to the poster, whether or not he agrees with it.

Edited July 23, 2021 by latbear4blk

[Jim_n_NYC]

I wonder who else this guy is having unsafe sex with and telling them he is negative.

[Monarchy79]

31 minutes ago, latbear4blk said:

Hey, I am not triggered this time. I insist, you are misreading my posts. You are running to judge and "held accountable" someone after hearing only one part of the story. You repeat that I said it is OK to lie, which is only in your imagination. You are suggesting that this man should be reported if he has committed a felony. If that is not HIV stigmatization and sex negativity, we may just have very different mindsets. 

Anyways, I do not really care about having a debate with you. I was trying to give advise to the poster, whether or not he agrees with it.

I never stated that you said it was “okay to lie”, about anything. I ASKED you, if you think it’s okay to lie about such matters. 

[CuriousByNature]

41 minutes ago, latbear4blk said:

Hey, I am not triggered this time. I insist, you are misreading my posts. You are running to judge and "held accountable" someone after hearing only one part of the story. You repeat that I said it is OK to lie, which is only in your imagination. You are suggesting that this man should be reported if he has committed a felony. If that is not HIV stigmatization and sex negativity, we may just have very different mindsets. 

Anyways, I do not really care about having a debate with you. I was trying to give advise to the poster, whether or not he agrees with it.

I'm not sure how this can be considered HIV stigmatization.  The issue isn't that the provider is HIV positive.  The issue is that the provider is a deceptive liar who is knowingly putting people at risk.  It doesn't matter if it is HIV, tuberculosis, ebola or any other transmissible infection. Hell, in my book the provider is a modern-day Typhoid Mary.

Edited July 23, 2021 by CuriousByNature

[marylander1940]

3 hours ago, latbear4blk said:

I am not sure. Many gay men are miserable human beens who would report this guy in a blink, no matter his circumstances.

many gay men dislike and distrust other gay men. It's certainly an internalized homophobia I guess might have something to do with rejection, etc. 

There are laws in many states making a felony infecting someone with HIV, in other countries based on the Napoleonic code laws were applied about people who knew had diseases and engaged in close contact with others not concerned about infecting them. 

back to legal facts and not so much to feelings how could a judge determine the client was infected with HIV by the escort and not by someone else? 

33 minutes ago, Jim_n_NYC said:

I wonder who else this guy is having unsafe sex with and telling them he is negative.

Many people for sure, this was only one of his clients. Fortunately most of them used condoms and later on moved on to PrEP but we don't know. 

The fact that the OP is asking what to do instead of simply reporting and that we don't know where he lives makes us wonder if anything will come up out of this. 

Man jailed for life after deliberately infecting men with HIV | Crime | The Guardian

US: Michigan man who turned himself in for ‘deliberately’ infecting others, sentenced to 1.5 to four years | HIV Justice Network

 

[caliguy]

21 minutes ago, CuriousByNature said:

I'm not sure how this is considered as HIV stigmatization.  The issue isn't that the provider is HIV positive.  The issue is that the provider is a deceptive liar who is knowingly putting people at risk.  It doesn't matter if it HIV, tuberculosis, ebola or any other transmissible infection. Hell, in my book he is no different than Typhoid Mary.

Except Typhoid Mary could pass the virus off to anyone. Becoming infected with hiv takes two consenting adults or rape which I don't think happened. 

I've been on this site for many years and I've seen the stigma towards hiv people. Doesn't matter whether they're safe or not. Just the fact that they have it means they want nothing to do with them. You could try being a responsible adult though and just treat everyone as positive and act accordingly and not worry about who is and who isn't. Works for me. 

Edited July 23, 2021 by caliguy

[caliguy]

9 minutes ago, marylander1940 said:

many gay men dislike and distrust other gay men. It's certainly an internalized homophobia I guess might have something to do with rejection, etc. 

There are laws in many states making a felony infecting someone with HIV, in other countries based on the Napoleonic code laws were applied about people who knew had diseases and engaged in close contact with others not concerned about infecting them. 

back to legal facts and not so much to feelings how could a judge determine the client was infected with HIV by the escort and not by someone else? 

Many people for sure, this was only one of his clients. Fortunately most of them used condoms and later on moved on to PrEP but we don't know. 

The fact that the OP is asking what to do instead of simply reporting and that we don't know where he lives makes us wonder if anything will come up out of this. 

Man jailed for life after deliberately infecting men with HIV | Crime | The Guardian

US: Michigan man who turned himself in for ‘deliberately’ infecting others, sentenced to 1.5 to four years | HIV Justice Network

 

Yes but there are cases like this one too. Even though they played safe and the "victim" never even acquired hiv he still got 25 years in prison for not disclosing. Of course it's a very red state where homophobia is high.  

https://www.cnn.com/2012/08/02/health/criminalizing-hiv/index.html

Edited July 23, 2021 by caliguy

[marylander1940]

Just now, caliguy said:

Yes but there are cases like this one too. Even though they played safe he still got 25 years in prison for not disclosing. Of course it's a very red state where homophobia is high.  

https://www.cnn.com/2012/08/02/health/criminalizing-hiv/index.html

No doubt!

They love putting gay men in jail and stigmatizing HIV under all possible circumstances.

 

[Monarchy79]

19 minutes ago, marylander1940 said:

No doubt!

They love putting gay men in jail and stigmatizing HIV under all possible circumstances.

 

Well prosecuting those who purposely infect others, actually cross all spectrums. 
quite a few heterosexual men are currently in prison for having unprotected sex with women, and not disclosing their status. 
 

[Monarchy79]

Just wanted to put out there, that as we are  debating about this, the said escort is possibly still having unprotected sex with unknowing clients. Some of those clients may not be using condoms. Some of those clients may not be on PrEP. Some of those clients may have asked of his status, and are being told that he’s negative as well. 
 

 

[CuriousByNature]

28 minutes ago, caliguy said:

Except Typhoid Mary could pass the virus off to anyone. Becoming infected with hiv takes two consenting adults or rape which I don't think happened. 

I've been on this site for many years and I've seen the stigma towards hiv people. Doesn't matter whether they're safe or not. Just the fact that they have it means they want nothing to do with them. You could try being a responsible adult though and just treat everyone as positive and act accordingly and not worry about who is and who isn't. Works for me. 

With all due respect, you appear to be missing my point.  The provider is actively deceiving others about something.  That is wrong.  Thirty years ago his actions would have resulted in people's deaths - thankfully that is likely not the case any longer, given the treatments available today.  He should be held to the same standard of truthfulness people would expect of anyone else regardless of his orientation and HIV status.  This is not about stigmatizing anyone for their health - it is about calling a lying spade a spade.

[CuriousByNature]

1 minute ago, Monarchy79 said:

Just wanted to put out there, that as we are  debating about this, the said escort is possibly still having unprotected sex with unknowing clients. Some of those clients may not be using condoms. Some of those clients may not be on PrEP. Some of those clients may have asked of his status, and are being told that he’s negative as well. 
 

 

Exactly!  But apparently we should all give him a 'pass' because he might feel stigmatized. Boo hoo.  I doubt he's crying over those he has harmed, and is likely continuing to harm.  You hit the nail on the head, @Monarchy79

[Guest davebk]

OP came asking for advice and to share what he's going through.  As we sit here and opine about things and people start bitching at each other, let's not forget he's facing something he didn't anticipate and trying to figure things out.  He's here for support, some practical advice and support, and ultimately community as he faces this.  Might be the right thing to keep that the focus for his sake.

[marylander1940]

4 minutes ago, Monarchy79 said:

Just wanted to put out there, that as we are  debating about this, the said escort is possibly still having unprotected sex with unknowing clients. Some of those clients may not be using condoms. Some of those clients may not be on PrEP. Some of those clients may have asked of his status, and are being told that he’s negative as well. 
 

 

no doubt... if he is still advertising I'm sure he's still spreading it. 

I'm sure even when he was negative he had unprotected sex with clients and buddies and that's how he got it. Later on he purposely lied about his status because of money. 

[+ José Soplanucas]

1 hour ago, Monarchy79 said:

I never stated that you said it was “okay to lie”, about anything. I ASKED you, if you think it’s okay to lie about such matters. 

You do not need to ask me. Read my posts as carefully as I should have read your comment about lies.