Any Successfully Converted Vegans / Vegetarians ?

[mapsdr]

A good one, but that's a non-sequitur. What I was explaining was that while there are vegans (not all of them, mind you, only some of the fringe ones) who think that eating other animals is evil, in reality animals eating other animals is part of the balance of nature.

How many of us have used our own hands to kill our main course? I never have. Not talking about using a gun someone else manufactured to shoot a duck out of the air. But actually hunted down, slaughtered, cleaned and cooked a wild boar, swordfish or pigeon? As the most intelligent (and dexterous) species on the planet, we’re the only creatures to actually wreak havoc on the balance of nature.

[maninsoma]

How many of us have used our own hands to kill our main course? I never have. Not talking about using a gun someone else manufactured to shoot a duck out of the air. But actually hunted down, slaughtered, cleaned and cooked a wild boar, swordfish or pigeon? As the most intelligent (and dexterous) species on the planet, we’re the only creatures to actually wreak havoc on the balance of nature.

 

Most of us don't grow our own vegetables, either...at least not those of us who live in urban areas. I've never understood this argument for vegetarianism. I did help growing vegetables when I was a kid and I have fished and then ate the catch, but wasn't from a family of hunters and didn't grow up on a farm so I never participated in the killing of any other animals for food. That doesn't make me believe that it's wrong to eat meat.

[+ Charlie]

I do all my hunting in supermarkets. The only food I ever obtained on my own was fish that I used to catch or berries that I used to pick.

[orville]

I'm no doctor or scientist, just a man trying to extend his lifespan and not to catch cancer or heart disease in the process.

It's scientifically proven that if everyone ate a plant-based diet there would be numerous benefits for everyone and the world.

 

But I'm still trying to wrap my head around this:

 

Why people who exclusively eat plant-based diets, have to ingest B12 to compensate for its deficiency and prevent nerve damage and etc?

Even the most purist vegan, and any scientist, would recognize that ingesting a pill is "artificial", hence an unnatural way to obtain nutrients.

Perhaps a 100% plant-based diet is not the way that nature intended for us? Why +80% vegans return to eat meat?

After all, we wouldn't be the only primates who also eat meat with their veggies. Chimpanzees and Baboons do too.

 

Mediterraneans (geography) and Adventists (religion) are known for having some of the longest life expectancies in the world.

They don't remove meat completely, they limit its ingestion to a minimum. I found a video that perhaps has a solution for me:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7585IsO9I4k:122

 

We all need to reduce our meat consumption, especially of red meat, but perhaps it's not the best to remove it altogether?

Edited August 7, 2020 by orville

[MikeBiDude]

I'm no doctor or scientist, just a man trying to extend his lifespan and not to catch cancer or heart disease in the process.

It's scientifically proven that if everyone ate a plant-based diet there would be numerous benefits for everyone and the world.

 

But I'm still trying to wrap my head around this:

 

Why people who exclusively eat plant-based diets, have to ingest B12 to compensate for its deficiency and prevent nerve damage and etc?

Even the most purist vegan, and any scientist, would recognize that ingesting a pill is "artificial", hence an unnatural way to obtain nutrients.

Perhaps 100% plant-based diets it's not the way nature intended for us? Why +80% vegans return to eat meat?

After all, we wouldn't be the only primates who also eat meat with their veggies. Chimpanzees and Baboons do too.

 

Mediterraneans (geography) and Adventists (religion) are known for having some of the longest life expectancies in the world.

They don't remove meat completely, they limit their ingestion to a minimum. I found a video that perhaps has a solution for me:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7585IsO9I4k:122

 

We all need to reduce our meat consumption, especially of red meat, but perhaps it's not the best to remove it altogether?

Agree....

[orville]

Agree....

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Starting to think that whoever coined the term "plant-based" is very smart.

It not only tricked radicals into thinking they were following their agenda.

It also opened the door for others to consider a diet that can be plant-based but meat complemented ?

[marylander1940]

Agree....

 

Yes everything in moderation.... depending on body type, background, age, lifestyle, genetics, etc.

[marylander1940]

Most of us don't grow our own vegetables, either...at least not those of us who live in urban areas. I've never understood this argument for vegetarianism. I did help growing vegetables when I was a kid and I have fished and then ate the catch, but wasn't from a family of hunters and didn't grow up on a farm so I never participated in the killing of any other animals for food. That doesn't make me believe that it's wrong to eat meat.

 

Yes but we can all grow tomatoes or bell peppers if we have a balcony, not enough but why not.

 

Cities could locally grow some of their vegetables if neighbors have a community gardens in some roofs, collect rain water to save money, etc. Based on your name I think you live in SF, right? Go to talk to any hippies/hipster, they're very educated on the subject.

 

farm raised fish also doesn't require much effort Istanbul's underground cistern Obviously not ALL of our fish should come from farms just like it shouldn't come from a can of tuna potentially loaded with mercury.

 

width=532pxhttps://media.tacdn.com/media/attractions-splice-spp-360x240/06/ed/21/70.jpg[/img]

 

 

I'm not saying cities could grow all their vegetables and fish, but doing something is always better than doing nothing specially when we know we can't do everything.

Edited August 7, 2020 by marylander1940

[mapsdr]

Most of us don't grow our own vegetables, either...at least not those of us who live in urban areas. I've never understood this argument for vegetarianism. I did help growing vegetables when I was a kid and I have fished and then ate the catch, but wasn't from a family of hunters and didn't grow up on a farm so I never participated in the killing of any other animals for food. That doesn't make me believe that it's wrong to eat meat.

The point I was trying to make was that we are the only creatures who don’t live in harmony with nature - our huge factory farms supported by even larger soy and corn farms to feed all the animals (not humans) is not the same as raising a goat to feed your village. The way people have lived throughout time (and still do in remote parts of the world) is not how we do it today. And we have a huge “healthcare” system banking on that fact, of course. When someone shows up at my cabin with a freshly caught fish or quail, I’ll enjoy it with them and may even cook it for us. I’ve never claimed to be vegan or vegetarian. But I’ve been plant based for more than a decade.

[+ WilliamM]

Yes but we can all grow tomatoes or bell peppers if we have a balcony, not enough but why not.

 

 

Tomatoes need constant sun. Flowers and plants do better in urban balconies.

 

I have had small back yards, roof gardens and balconies in large cities since 1976.

 

Back yards are the best, I believe.

 

Rooftop gardens have to be watered constantly, same with patio gardens.

Edited August 7, 2020 by WilliamM

[mapsdr]

Yes everything in moderation.... depending on body type, background, age, lifestyle, genetics, etc.

Before I went plant based, I dabbled in moderation in the sense that I had moderate diabetes and heart disease - only one stent compared to my old roommate who had a triple bypass that same month! But yeah, moderation is key to many things in life. Just not everything (slavery, misogyny and my fave - conversion therapy!)

[marylander1940]

Tomatoes need constant sun. Flowers and plants do better in urban balconies.

 

I have had small back yards, roof gardens and balconies in large cities. Back yards are the best, I believe.

 

Agreed! LA, Phoenix, Miami have plenty of sun!

 

Obviously the idea is to do it yourself our used wood.

 

[marylander1940]

Before I went plant based, I dabbled in moderation in the sense that I had moderate diabetes and heart disease - only one stent compared to my old roommate who had a triple bypass that same month! But yeah, moderation is key to many things in life. Just not everything (slavery, misogyny and my fave - conversion therapy!)

 

My point... ?

 

moderation doesn't apply to everybody!

 

Some folks aren't mean to eat mayonnaise in moderation, they should have mustard which is usually fat free, and full of antioxidants.

[+ WilliamM]

@marylander1940

 

Plenty of sun isn't the issue. Balcony gardens thrive depending on location.

[Guest]

... As the most intelligent (and dexterous) species on the planet, we’re the only creatures to actually wreak havoc on the balance of nature.

I'm sorry, but that's factually wrong. When starfish wasting disease (SSWD) killed the "evil" carnivorous sea stars, sea urchins and other herbivores ran amok, devastating sea kelp forests, and entire ecosystems that went with those kelp forests. This is but one example, of course. While we are the only animals, of course, who can choose to use our intelligence to mitigate our effects on the ecosystems, other animals, do, in fact, do massive damage to ecosystems, even ecosystems which support them.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/01/starfish-killing-disease-remaking-oceans/581632/

"In the absence of the sunflowers, the sea urchins they hunt are running amok, eating their way through the Pacific’s kelp forests. Kelp is a tagliatelle-like seaweed whose meter-tall fronds shelter vast communities of marine life. If the kelp forests fall, an entire ecosystem will fall too, including several commercially important species such as abalone, crab, and countless fish... Once-lush worlds of green and yellow foliage are now “urchin barrens”—desolate domains of purple spines and chewed stumps. “Kelp forests along the West Coast have been hit hard, and are likely to diminish further as these sunflower-star predators become extremely rare,” says Carol Blanchette from the University of California at Santa Barbara."

Ironically, once the kelp forests are gone, the urchins who eat them will be among the species suffering, although their populations exploded when their predators were killed by the SSWD virus. Carnivores/predators are not "evil." They are an important part of our ecosystems.

[RealAvalon]

Vegan designer shoes if anyone is interested

 

https://www.fluevog.com/shop/6188-cjrt-red-vegan?utm_source=John+Fluevog+Shoes+Newsletter&utm_campaign=b2297083e8-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_0806&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_238bdbe9d0-b2297083e8-196310714

[+ WilliamM]

I'm sorry, but that's factually wrong. When starfish wasting disease (SSWD) killed the "evil" carnivorous sea stars, sea urchins and other herbivores ran amok, devastating sea kelp forests, and entire ecosystems that went with those kelp forests. This is but one example, of course. While we are the only animals, of course, who can choose to use our intelligence to mitigate our effects on the ecosystems, other animals, do, in fact, do massive damage to ecosystems, even ecosystems which support them.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/01/starfish-killing-disease-remaking-oceans/581632/

"In the absence of the sunflowers, the sea urchins they hunt are running amok, eating their way through the Pacific’s kelp forests. Kelp is a tagliatelle-like seaweed whose meter-tall fronds shelter vast communities of marine life. If the kelp forests fall, an entire ecosystem will fall too, including several commercially important species such as abalone, crab, and countless fish... Once-lush worlds of green and yellow foliage are now “urchin barrens”—desolate domains of purple spines and chewed stumps. “Kelp forests along the West Coast have been hit hard, and are likely to diminish further as these sunflower-star predators become extremely rare,” says Carol Blanchette from the University of California at Santa Barbara."

Ironically, once the kelp forests are gone, the urchins who eat them will be among the species suffering, although their populations exploded when their predators were killed by the SSWD virus. Carnivores/predators are not "evil." They are an important part of our ecosystems.

 

When wolves were brought back to Yellowstone National Park (from Canada)

during the Clinton Administration, the ecology of Montana changed for the better.

[MikeBiDude]

When it comes to food intake there are very, very few items anyone can not take in moderation. Food allergies excepted of course! Butter, mayo, dessert, red meat, farm fish (I avoid), is fine in moderation combined with a balanced diet.

[MikeBiDude]

Meat and chicken from organic, local farmers and, being in the PNW, I eat a lot of freshly-caught king salmon and halibut

Although I live in SoCal I’m fortunate to have access to a lot of PNW seafood. I’ve also have an online beef provider (Crowd Cow) based there that provides grass/grain fed humanely raised/slaughtered beef. Zero carbon footprint beef form many of their ranch associates.

[Guest]

When wolves were brought back to Yellowstone National Park (from Canada)

during the Clinton Administration, the ecology of Montana changed for the better.

Yes, you're right. Carnivores are an integral part of our ecosystems....

[Guest]

[Guest]

[+ WilliamM]

Yes, you're right. Carnivores are an integral part of our ecosystems....

 

My brother has studied and written about wolves in Montana/Wyoming and Denali National Park in Alaska since 1984.

[Guest]

[Guest]