Why does having sex with clients tend to lead to long term regulars, but with apps and bars, it doesn't?

[Jarrod_Uncut]

Among escorts, I believe there may be a level of hypocrisy. Let me tell a story from when I was in my 20s.

 

There was this hot waiter in his early twenties. He regularly dated guys in their 30s and 40s who always picked up the tab. Then an older gay couple gave him free room and board to spice up their relationship .

 

He met an escort who advertised online. When the guy asked him out, he laughed at him, and called him a "whore" who "sold his body on the Internet."

 

Absolute and complete hypocrisy. The older I get, the more I hang out with guys who share interests besides sex. You get better conversation and boyfriends that way, although in my case, they're far from attractive to me.

 

The waiter in question doesn't sound like he was an escort. He just happened to be one of those "kept" guys. Those types are different and they feel more privileged than being an actual escort. They're a different breed all together.

 

The sexual marketplace is a great place to find sex, not such a great place to find love, romance or friendship.

 

What do you define as the sexual marketplace? A site where gays are on? And what do you define places that are not like that? Applebees? The grocery store? The gym? Lol.

 

I mean let's be real: Unless a person already was "born into" a social scene (either due to their job, having lived in the same city all or most of their life, or live in the city), where can other gays meet that's not sexual BUT can leave the door open for sex. E.g., avoiding hitting on a straight guy?

 

Obviously hookup apps popular for a reason because the same guys are on there for years. I go thru phases myself where I delete the app, but with the closing of bars due to COVID, that really allowed 0 ways of connecting with other gays outside of clients. I've even do the occasional gym and restaurant "hit", Most times those never lead to more than just getting a Facebook or Instagram handle. Only been handful of times in life, that I met someone in public and it lead to something.

 

It seems most interactions start from hookup apps as starters, and it either goes 3 directions: turns into friends, turns into a couple more hookups, or just never meet up again.

 

And until I fully move out of the miserable Kansas Shitty market, client biz. continues to be sparse. However there are times I just like to tune it out and focus on clients.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Jarrod_Uncut]

You got that right (I grew up in a conservative area). You are brain-washed for your 1st 18 years of life that anything gay is unmanly, shameful, and sinful. If/when you give in to the urge to hook up with a man, you still hope to "limit the damage" and keep it discreet, with the street-smart conclusion that you can't "live like those people in NYC do." So you focus on straight-acting, which definitely doesn't include having a relationship that any observer could interpret as gay.

 

That's so true. And equally sad. And I'll add:

 

With everything going on about ethnic relations and BL'sM, I think it goes even a little deeper. Being that most of the guys, in most cities I come across are White guys (and admittedly are the ones who seem to hit me up and go thru with hookups the most). I think there's this unspoken truth that many White guys only go as far as hooking up and having sex with BLMs. Anything deeper like a friendship or relationship, only happens every so often. If it and when it does, I always find its because the Black dude has something the White guy wants: Usually a happening career, big social network, or access to the "parTy scene.". Having a BBC is usually not enough. At least for White guys under 50 lol. I find the older White guys usually have less requirements and expectations, hence why client relationships have worked so well for me lol.

 

I'm just like, it's 2020. Why are gays still thinking and operating like it's 1950...when our straight counterparts are dating, getting married, and having interracial kids together... meanwhile it's so fucking hard to find ONE, who's not just in it for the sexual aspect. BUT....I'm also not saying black on black gay relationships just happen easily either. The last time I had anotha brotha ask me on a date, and take me...was last August in D.C. for my birthday. And that was like once in a lifetime because it was also a fancy restaurant lol.

 

But of course, location location location.

 

I'm almost just resolving to accept it. I guess it's not the worse thing to have a different guy sucking me off or getting fucked every week. I mean, I don't even have to jerk off considering anytime I'm not having sex, I'm replenishing my loads lol. At the same time, it's just so shallow. I don't mind fucking on the 1st meet, but if they can't fulfill my social aspects of things, it's only half the satisfaction.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Jarrod_Uncut

[MrMattBig]

 

 

I'm just like, it's 2020. Why are gays still thinking and operating like it's 1950...when our straight counterparts are dating, getting married, and having interracial kids together...

I think part of the reason is because gays have been discriminated against for so long as well, collectively a stereotype and reality exists to have their own clique exclusionary to others that ends up being 1950's -ish. I once was in Puerto Vallarta on a trip there with a client I had an semi long term arrangement with during the holidays. It just so happens all of San Francisco gay scene basically migrates there for the holidays as well. At dinner one night the conversation with another gay couple visiting turned so derogatory and insensitive towards trans individuals from the couples end...I am so happy that I am a happy drunk and the wine mellowed me out and numbed me to the nonsense and disgusting things I heard. I am pansexual and never have "came out"...I live my life though as openly being a freak...so whether your male, female, trans, cis, bi, straight, gay....if I feel an attraction towards you I am going to make that known...whether on a sexual level, emotional level, or both. But, I have never felt a need to come out, or moreover a want to come out particularly because of how prejudice and judgmental the gay male community and 'scene' can be at times.

Edited June 16, 2020 by MrMattBig

[Redwine56]

I'm newly out to myself, and I find this baffling. I hooked up with a really nice guy before Covid. He offered to be friends, and we talked about what we had in common that we liked to do. When I left, he sent me home with some very delicious peanut butter cookies. When I've messaged him after to check in, no reference to sex in sight, he only sometimes replies, and it is half-heartedly. I am not pursuing anything. I've met guys in bars, made out, and had the same disappearing act after some he expressed an intense desire to stay in touch.

 

In the meantime, the guy that started out as a hook up and sort of has become a meaningful relationship would rather have sex with others than with me. If you spent so many years pursuing sex with dozens of men, it's hard to be satisfied with just one, I guess. But for me, it weakens the connection.

He may truly want to develop a long lasting friendship with you and that may be the reason why he doesn't want to have sex with you. He knows that his sexual encounters are one and done and haven't led to anything meaningful. So he doesn't want that kind of connection with you. Just think if you develop a good connection over time and enjoy being with each other which may eventually lead to sex, what a deeper, meaningful sexual connection that could be.

[Redwine56]

Selfish is the key word. That's what majority of the people there are. I just had an "argument" with a guy from an app I've met last month. For one, it took a whole year to actually meet (didn't live in same town, but only an hour out).

 

Now that we have met and had a hot time and he even seemed up to meet again, he has made 0 effort to try and get us in the same place. Always claims to be working, or being invited to different parties and get togethers... yet has not 1 time asked or invited me to go. Just says he can't invite anyone.

 

I finally called him out on it today. I'm not fixing to be wasting my time on someone who clearly can't be bothered to involve me in anything they do. He seems to have various excuses about how it's private, or he can't invite anybody, and doesn't want to have to worry about someone. Whatever the fuck that means. But yet he says he does want to meet again, and it wasn't a 1 time thing. blah blah blah

 

Just fucking say you don't want to bring me because you feel some shame or don't think I'll feel welcomed. Guys be having 100 excuses. Idk why they try to hold onto something that they know they're not invested in anyway. I'm smart enough to pull the plug if I have to.

Jarrod - don't take it as a negative reaction towards you. It sounds like the guy is in a relationship and can't invite you for that reason. It seems as if he enjoyed his hot time with you and wants to do it again.

[LivingnLA]

I think part of the reason is because gays have been discriminated against for so long as well, collectively a stereotype and reality exists to have their own clique exclusionary to others that ends up being 1950's -ish. I once was in Puerto Vallarta on a trip there with a client I had an semi long term arrangement with during the holidays. It just so happens all of San Francisco gay scene basically migrates there for the holidays as well. At dinner one night the conversation with another gay couple visiting turned so derogatory and insensitive towards trans individuals from the couples end...I am so happy that I am a happy drunk and the wine mellowed me out and numbed me to the nonsense and disgusting things I heard. I am pansexual and never have "came out"...I live my life though as openly being a freak...so whether your male, female, trans, cis, bi, straight, gay....if I feel an attraction towards you I am going to make that known...whether on a sexual level, emotional level, or both. But, I have never felt a need to come out, or moreover a want to come out particularly because of how prejudice and judgmental the gay male community and 'scene' can be at times.

 

Thanks for sharing. We are all human and every human has prejudices and bigotries. They're based on our cognitive biases and a lifetime of experiences and how it all fits in a society's social hierarchy. "Punching down" to feel better is a thing. My wife and I have a pretty diverse friend group because we wanted our kids exposed to as much diversity as possible. It's led to some weird experiences because the gay male couples in our social circles frequently are very politically and socially conservative with some challenging bigotries. We've never confronted them, but we have had very complex conversations with our kids after a dinner party or birthday party where they overheard something upsetting. The most important lesson we've tried to teach is the value of awareness because awareness enables us to respond and react in a more compassionate humane ways. Now I wonder if we should chat with some of these people, in private over a good glass of wine. I'm uncomfortable with how our polite silence may be mistaken for support.

 

https://www.advocate.com/commentary/2015/11/13/rise-gay-bigot

 

https://www.un.org/development/desa/dspd/2018/02/prejudice-and-discrimination/

Edited June 19, 2020 by LivingnLA

[MrMattBig]

I always wonder about the "work" excuse. Prospective clients that never pan out too often say they are working when trying to figure out mutual availability, especially when I am traveling. Is it because after work they have to go home to a relationship? Is it because they are legitimately too tired after work for sex? Is it just laziness to put in the effort? If it is a veiled way to say they are in a relationship, just better to say a need to be discreet and can't get away. If it's not, we are all adults, we all work, yet we all find time to do things in life besides just working, it's a weak excuse. And personally I have had some of the best sex of my life after a long day or night at work.

Selfish is the key word. That's what majority of the people there are. I just had an "argument" with a guy from an app I've met last month. For one, it took a whole year to actually meet (didn't live in same town, but only an hour out).

 

Now that we have met and had a hot time and he even seemed up to meet again, he has made 0 effort to try and get us in the same place. Always claims to be working, or being invited to different parties and get togethers... yet has not 1 time asked or invited me to go. Just says he can't invite anyone.

 

I finally called him out on it today. I'm not fixing to be wasting my time on someone who clearly can't be bothered to involve me in anything they do. He seems to have various excuses about how it's private, or he can't invite anybody, and doesn't want to have to worry about someone. Whatever the fuck that means. But yet he says he does want to meet again, and it wasn't a 1 time thing. blah blah blah

 

Just fucking say you don't want to bring me because you feel some shame or don't think I'll feel welcomed. Guys be having 100 excuses. Idk why they try to hold onto something that they know they're not invested in anyway. I'm smart enough to pull the plug if I have to.

Jarrod - don't take it as a negative reaction towards you. It sounds like the guy is in a relationship and can't invite you for that reason. It seems as if he enjoyed his hot time with you and wants to do it again.

[+ 7829V]

I always wonder about the "work" excuse. Prospective clients that never pan out too often say they are working when trying to figure out mutual availability, especially when I am traveling. Is it because after work they have to go home to a relationship? Is it because they are legitimately too tired after work for sex? Is it just laziness to put in the effort? If it is a veiled way to say they are in a relationship, just better to say a need to be discreet and can't get away. If it's not, we are all adults, we all work, yet we all find time to do things in life besides just working, it's a weak excuse. And personally I have had some of the best sex of my life after a long day or night at work.

I don’t have time.

I have to work.

I’m busy.

Let’s reschedule.

 

those phrases are easily summarize in one:

“You are not my priority at the moment”.

[Walker1]

I think one has to be practical. Many marraiges are/were for practical reasons. Welfare and social safety nets are one or two or maybe three generations old. before that family trumped everything . There was division of labor. Many countries of the world still function that way, with men and women having their roles-especially child care/home/earnings. Many third world countries men go out and earn money in other countries and stay there for years supporting their families.

 

This whole Disney concept of the one and such is new. Sure we had fairy tales and fables -but they were fairy tales and fables. In the end, even in the best relationships, one grows old and dies and leaves the other alone. Plus no one is perfect. In today's world especially it seems we live in ether -like some fairy tale. There is almost a rabid hatred of things not upto our standards. It is what it is. I have a circle of friends, my kids, all have their foibles, we accept each other warts and all. I would like a wonderful gay relationship, but somehow am not able to get past just the sex thing. but I know several of my straight couple friends who haven't had sex in years -so it is what it is. I think my world is more than half full-if I meet someone, I meet someone. if not I have my kids, dog, my circle of friends and family-so no worries.

 

Maybe you might meet someone where the sex is lousy and have something on the side. Lot of old school family values types had that lifestyle -down low. A wife and family for the community and a side piece for the excitement. Such is life-we don't know if it will be our last day when we step out of our house. The more I realize I can't make sense of life and accept it, the happier I am !

[+ honcho]

Lot of old school family values types had that lifestyle -down low. A wife and family for the community and a side piece for the excitement ...

 

I spent an academic year in France 1975-1976; a classmate introduced me to her father as a musical connection/friend, and casual mentioned that he had a wife *and* a mistress, and the two women knew of each other and had met; not exactly a menage a trois, but this sort of arrangment was not at all uncommon in parisian circles at the time. He was not a particularly conservative family-values-stingy rich guy ...

[Jarrod_Uncut]

I don’t have time.

I have to work.

I’m busy.

Let’s reschedule.

 

those phrases are easily summarize in one:

“You are not my priority at the moment”.

 

In the same vein: if that's true, those are all phrases indicative of someone who just can't be real with others. And what happened to the lack of priority when they were all too eager to fuck last time?

 

When I tell clients those things, most likely it really is that. I've had to reschedule a couple clients this week because I was busy...and I wouldn't doubt many clients likely the same.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

I think one has to be practical. Many marraiges are/were for practical reasons. Welfare and social safety nets are one or two or maybe three generations old. before that family trumped everything . There was division of labor. Many countries of the world still function that way, with men and women having their roles-especially child care/home/earnings. Many third world countries men go out and earn money in other countries and stay there for years supporting their families.

 

This whole Disney concept of the one and such is new. Sure we had fairy tales and fables -but they were fairy tales and fables. In the end, even in the best relationships, one grows old and dies and leaves the other alone. Plus no one is perfect. In today's world especially it seems we live in ether -like some fairy tale. There is almost a rabid hatred of things not upto our standards. It is what it is. I have a circle of friends, my kids, all have their foibles, we accept each other warts and all. I would like a wonderful gay relationship, but somehow am not able to get past just the sex thing. but I know several of my straight couple friends who haven't had sex in years -so it is what it is. I think my world is more than half full-if I meet someone, I meet someone. if not I have my kids, dog, my circle of friends and family-so no worries.

 

Maybe you might meet someone where the sex is lousy and have something on the side. Lot of old school family values types had that lifestyle -down low. A wife and family for the community and a side piece for the excitement. Such is life-we don't know if it will be our last day when we step out of our house. The more I realize I can't make sense of life and accept it, the happier I am !

 

And that's 100% fine (pardon if the rating I gave your post comes off as a dislike, just referring to the general idea).

 

Why does it have to be a Disney way of things when it pertains to gays though? Why do I have to be out here, can't even fucking have a movie date or Saturday night plans, when straight people out here are going out on dates and shit? Yes, I Agree many marriages are for practical reasons. But at the same time, I'm not talking about marriage lol. I'm talking about consistency.

 

It says a lot when somebody can connect with me on a sexual level, but yet can't seem to turn it into anything substantial. Does this person not like ANYTHING else about me? Or did they? If someone feels like no desire or prerogative to at-least feel like wanting to be seen with me outside of the bed, then I might as well stick with paid appointments. I'm not looking for a notch on my belt, I'm hoping for a connection outside of clients... it doesn't have to be marriage, but at-least an attraction that carries some type of friendship.

 

I'll say, this used to be a little more common circa 2000-2005. Guys would at-least put some kinda effort into making the other gay feel human. Nowadays, they don't even try. Worse yet, they rub it your face...no tact. No class. Just trash.

[Walker1]

And that's 100% fine (pardon if the rating I gave your post comes off as a dislike, just referring to the general idea).

 

Why does it have to be a Disney way of things when it pertains to gays though? Why do I have to be out here, can't even fucking have a movie date or Saturday night plans, when straight people out here are going out on dates and shit? Yes, I Agree many marriages are for practical reasons. But at the same time, I'm not talking about marriage lol. I'm talking about consistency.

 

It says a lot when somebody can connect with me on a sexual level, but yet can't seem to turn it into anything substantial. Does this person not like ANYTHING else about me? Or did they? If someone feels like no desire or prerogative to at-least feel like wanting to be seen with me outside of the bed, then I might as well stick with paid appointments. I'm not looking for a notch on my belt, I'm hoping for a connection outside of clients... it doesn't have to be marriage, but at-least an attraction that carries some type of friendship.

 

I'll say, this used to be a little more common circa 2000-2005. Guys would at-least put some kinda effort into making the other gay feel human. Nowadays, they don't even try. Worse yet, they rub it your face...no tact. No class. Just trash.

Again it depends on what you are looking for and the circumstances. There is really not much difference between straights and gays once you have kids. Kids become priority-you can't dump them in a kennel and go off to Ibiza for a party for two weeks and come back. In my circumstance, it is one of the reason I struggle to get a gay relationship-my kids come first and as they should-I chose to have them-as a single parent no less.

 

Another thing-I don't know how good looking you are, that plays into it. When I look at a very good looking dude, I am hardly thinking -oh wow what a great candidate for a long term relationship. It is like a beautiful rose that you want to possess. Unfortunately the interest wanes when the next beautiful rose comes along.

 

Long term escort client relationships are different than long term relationships. I have had 1 maybe another one I had would qualify . There is a big element of control-client controls money, time and circumstances. There is no expectation escort not sleep with others. Escort is usually on his best behavior-you don't show up and say I have a headache , not in the mood. Or show up in sloppy clothes, drunk, high, throwing up with dysentery and expect client to take care of you and nurse you back.

 

They say the brain is the biggest sex organ . Sex with an image-a buff body/type/look is just that. you have a fantasy or some thing that gets you going and that is what you are having it. That that fantasy is an actual human who beyond the muscles and looks and type is a human with faults, likes/dislikes just like anyone else is unfortunately beyond the point. Now a true connection is something else. but that I have had just when I am in nature, with my kids , dog, friends, sometimes just hiking and with the trees.

 

Sometimes when you desire/lust after a fantasy -muscle god/twink/whatever -you don't want the whole picture. Its why it is easier for me to pay for sex and then move on. I don't have time for apps and games and such. It also gives you a sense of control in this crazy world.

 

I myself am not in a relationship. But due to kids, I hang out mostly in the straight world, as my world revolves around them/ their friends and their parents/PTA etc for now. But I am not seeing this magical deep connections you see in the moves. All types -some men who at jealous of their wives attention to their own kids, women who cheat and had a kid with another man and passed it off as the husband's, couples who are open, couples who don't have sex and are fine if one cheats, couples who are great and happy, couples who can't stand each other, couples who can't being apart from each other even more than a day etc. it runs the gamut.

 

But one thing, when you are together a long time -the mask/persona drops. I myself when I was in the gay scene was a fat femme who adopted a drag queen persona. not that I sat there consciously and thought it up-it just was the easiest way for me to cope , being femme, somewhat fat by gay standards and in a new city. I had hoped to be welcomed into a new gay family and instead it was like falling into hard concrete. Put on what I thought made me popular-or infamous-but got me attention and "friends" . but friends who related to me on a persona level-not me. That isn't their fault. Same way if someone is gorgeous or musclebound-I am sure you get people who are attracted to that and that only and not the whole. Hey this whole site is more or less dedicated to the gorgeous men and the men who love them!

 

For me , having kids, reconnecting with family helped me tremendously. They knew who I was from the day I was born. They might not have approved me being gay, but now almost all have come around and it really doesn't bother them. many have had divorces, child custody wars, bankruptcies, suicides, addictions etc etc-that me being gay and having kids through scientific means seems to be a very minor issue in comparison. Surprisingly it is easier for me to be a whole being as these people know everything about me-from the day I was born, my likes, my dislikes and my kids also have cousins etc.

 

 

If you are consistently missing something -a deep close connection-good for you. That is what drove me to my path of kids and back to family. However that may be poison to you-as they say one man's meat is another man's poison. But I was very depressed with my persona as that had become me and my whole friends and circle revolved around said persona and not me. Perhaps find out something else, hobbies, go to meet up groups that are not sexual in nature-but expand and meet people that you might not normally meet and who may not care about things like looks or gay or straight. One thing I learnt is you can't change the world-even if you can-it will change again-it never stands still. instead for me figuring out what works for me and accepting others for what or who they are has brought happiness . There are a lot of avenues that allow you to meet people who you may never give a second glance . it may not lead to a relationship, but you can get more people in your life, where you can be yourself -warts and all-and not always be someone. It is relaxing. Relationships -no magic bullet-there are all kinds-some people spend a lifetime in misery too!

[Jarrod_Uncut]

Again it depends on what you are looking for and the circumstances. There is really not much difference between straights and gays once you have kids. Kids become priority-you can't dump them in a kennel and go off to Ibiza for a party for two weeks and come back. In my circumstance, it is one of the reason I struggle to get a gay relationship-my kids come first and as they should-I chose to have them-as a single parent no less.

 

Another thing-I don't know how good looking you are, that plays into it. When I look at a very good looking dude, I am hardly thinking -oh wow what a great candidate for a long term relationship. It is like a beautiful rose that you want to possess. Unfortunately the interest wanes when the next beautiful rose comes along.

 

Long term escort client relationships are different than long term relationships. I have had 1 maybe another one I had would qualify . There is a big element of control-client controls money, time and circumstances. There is no expectation escort not sleep with others. Escort is usually on his best behavior-you don't show up and say I have a headache , not in the mood. Or show up in sloppy clothes, drunk, high, throwing up with dysentery and expect client to take care of you and nurse you back.

 

They say the brain is the biggest sex organ . Sex with an image-a buff body/type/look is just that. you have a fantasy or some thing that gets you going and that is what you are having it. That that fantasy is an actual human who beyond the muscles and looks and type is a human with faults, likes/dislikes just like anyone else is unfortunately beyond the point. Now a true connection is something else. but that I have had just when I am in nature, with my kids , dog, friends, sometimes just hiking and with the trees.

 

Sometimes when you desire/lust after a fantasy -muscle god/twink/whatever -you don't want the whole picture. Its why it is easier for me to pay for sex and then move on. I don't have time for apps and games and such. It also gives you a sense of control in this crazy world.

 

I myself am not in a relationship. But due to kids, I hang out mostly in the straight world, as my world revolves around them/ their friends and their parents/PTA etc for now. But I am not seeing this magical deep connections you see in the moves. All types -some men who at jealous of their wives attention to their own kids, women who cheat and had a kid with another man and passed it off as the husband's, couples who are open, couples who don't have sex and are fine if one cheats, couples who are great and happy, couples who can't stand each other, couples who can't being apart from each other even more than a day etc. it runs the gamut.

 

But one thing, when you are together a long time -the mask/persona drops. I myself when I was in the gay scene was a fat femme who adopted a drag queen persona. not that I sat there consciously and thought it up-it just was the easiest way for me to cope , being femme, somewhat fat by gay standards and in a new city. I had hoped to be welcomed into a new gay family and instead it was like falling into hard concrete. Put on what I thought made me popular-or infamous-but got me attention and "friends" . but friends who related to me on a persona level-not me. That isn't their fault. Same way if someone is gorgeous or musclebound-I am sure you get people who are attracted to that and that only and not the whole. Hey this whole site is more or less dedicated to the gorgeous men and the men who love them!

 

For me , having kids, reconnecting with family helped me tremendously. They knew who I was from the day I was born. They might not have approved me being gay, but now almost all have come around and it really doesn't bother them. many have had divorces, child custody wars, bankruptcies, suicides, addictions etc etc-that me being gay and having kids through scientific means seems to be a very minor issue in comparison. Surprisingly it is easier for me to be a whole being as these people know everything about me-from the day I was born, my likes, my dislikes and my kids also have cousins etc.

 

 

If you are consistently missing something -a deep close connection-good for you. That is what drove me to my path of kids and back to family. However that may be poison to you-as they say one man's meat is another man's poison. But I was very depressed with my persona as that had become me and my whole friends and circle revolved around said persona and not me. Perhaps find out something else, hobbies, go to meet up groups that are not sexual in nature-but expand and meet people that you might not normally meet and who may not care about things like looks or gay or straight. One thing I learnt is you can't change the world-even if you can-it will change again-it never stands still. instead for me figuring out what works for me and accepting others for what or who they are has brought happiness . There are a lot of avenues that allow you to meet people who you may never give a second glance . it may not lead to a relationship, but you can get more people in your life, where you can be yourself -warts and all-and not always be someone. It is relaxing. Relationships -no magic bullet-there are all kinds-some people spend a lifetime in misery too!

 

I hear what you’re saying. It’s all valid. However, when you say kids, pets, family, etc...not everyone has that. It’s easy to fall back on and build a life once those default things are in place. I also know of a guy who has an older daughter as well...and even though we’ve talked of meeting, I’m telling myself I don’t want to go back down that “path” again: Namely one where I’m playing 2nd base. So, my options will certainly involve others outside of that.

 

My question: what do you think you’d be if you didn’t have the kids, family and dog to center you? Not saying that to imply those values are “material”, but hypothetically: if you didn’t, how do you think your world would be different?

 

I personally don’t have any kids. Pets aren’t a good option right now either, because I’ve been out of my own place for going on 2 years now, and trying to race to get back into one. And most places make it pretty undesirable to move in with a pet, on top of everything else. No desire to have kids (and why would I considering everything) I know there are guys who can play the role of family man, and single gay guy.

 

But in my opinion, it’s capitalizing on the “system”. Not just money either. And rightfully advantageous in doing so. With kids you get tax dependents, and a broader social horizon. You can be the “respected” family man that this country is so infatuated with, but in the same vein, the “gay men” out here having kids knowing they are gay, is throwing biologically gay and “out” men under the bus...making it seem like gay men without kids don’t have responsibilities, have lesser importance and contribute less to “the family society”, and are selfish and can’t take care of anyone but themselves. Meanwhile, reaping all the benefits of being a “family man” on the side.

 

I’m not citing that all gay guys who have kids are doing it for a gain, but I do many want their cake and eat it too. They want gay camaraderie, on the side when it’s convenient for them. And some may even want it long term and are consistent. But anytime you have kid in the mix, it’s almost like having to contend with another partner. Like the guy I’ve been talking to since we first hooked up earlier this year said to me yesterday, “I can’t meet, I’m going out of town with my daughter for the weekend”. How does one interpret that? I’m supposed to feel like..nothing about it? You said it right: “my kids come first and because of that, I don’t have a desire to be in a relationship.”

 

And that’s exactly what happens. Some want to have 1 foot out the door. Half being family man, other half being gay man. That's fine for client/escort arrangements. But in regular situations, it's not going to work being 1 in the same, unless both parties actually move in together. Which I've seen happen. But I always feel some sort of way about the one who moves into that situation, ultimately playing substitute mother or father to the person's kids.

 

No Thankyou. I ain't about being bamboozled into becoming some live in babysitter for nobody. Obviously if the person had adult sons or daughters, that could make a difference. Or not.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Walker1]

I hear what you’re saying. It’s all valid. However, when you say kids, pets, family, etc...not everyone has that. It’s easy to fall back on and build a life once those default things are in place. I also know of a guy who has an older daughter as well...and even though we’ve talked of meeting, I’m telling myself I don’t want to go back down that “path” again: Namely one where I’m playing 2nd base. So, my options will certainly involve others outside of that.

 

My question: what do you think you’d be if you didn’t have the kids, family and dog to center you? Not saying that to imply those values are “material”, but hypothetically: if you didn’t, how do you think your world would be different?

 

I personally don’t have any kids. Pets aren’t a good option right now either, because I’ve been out of my own place for going on 2 years now, and trying to race to get back into one. And most places make it pretty undesirable to move in with a pet, on top of everything else. No desire to have kids (and why would I considering everything) I know there are guys who can play the role of family man, and single gay guy.

 

But in my opinion, it’s capitalizing on the “system”. Not just money either. And rightfully advantageous in doing so. With kids you get tax dependents, and a broader social horizon. You can be the “respected” family man that this country is so infatuated with, but in the same vein, the “gay men” out here having kids knowing they are gay, is throwing biologically gay and “out” men under the bus...making it seem like gay men without kids don’t have responsibilities, have lesser importance and contribute less to “the family society”, and are selfish and can’t take care of anyone but themselves. Meanwhile, reaping all the benefits of being a “family man” on the side.

 

I’m not citing that all gay guys who have kids are doing it for a gain, but I do many want their cake and eat it too. They want gay camaraderie, on the side when it’s convenient for them. And some may even want it long term and are consistent. But anytime you have kid in the mix, it’s almost like having to contend with another partner. Like the guy I’ve been talking to since we first hooked up earlier this year said to me yesterday, “I can’t meet, I’m going out of town with my daughter for the weekend”. How does one interpret that? I’m supposed to feel like..nothing about it? You said it right: “my kids come first and because of that, I don’t have a desire to be in a relationship.”

 

And that’s exactly what happens. Some want to have 1 foot out the door. Half being family man, other half being gay man. That's fine for client/escort arrangements. But in regular situations, it's not going to work being 1 in the same, unless both parties actually move in together. Which I've seen happen. But I always feel some sort of way about the one who moves into that situation, ultimately playing substitute mother or father to the person's kids.

 

No Thankyou. I ain't about being bamboozled into becoming some live in babysitter for nobody. Obviously if the person had adult sons or daughters, that could make a difference. Or not.

It really depends. If I didn't have kids, I might have moved to some place in nature, have long walks, travel a lot , keep friends. I may not have reached out to my family as I was hurt by their attitude when I was gay. No abuse or conversion therapy such-but my family is ostrich head in sand-just do what you do as long as you do in private and don't rock the boat. What will people think? Now they have evolved and grown. My old gay scene lifestyle was killing me in the inside. I had to move on-not from being gay, but from that persona I had built and taken on and find a way to live without that stress.

 

Tax benefits and kids-thanks for the laugh -those tax benefits are a drop in the bucket when compared to actual expenses. It is upto the individual how you want to lead your life . Life is short and this country at least being gay is not a crime-other countries you can be put in jail for it. Now the supreme court has actually ruled gays and transgender are protected from being fired due to our sexuality-so one more step for us.

 

But you have to figure out what your interests are, where you can be yourself and do you really need a relationship or perhaps friends/hobbies that you never thought of, but sounds interesting -say kite flying or knitting and meet people you would never meet and who don't look at you from that sexual angle or your sexuality or such. Whether in a relationship or outside, all of us need to let loose and be ourselves without all the outer shell.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

It really depends. If I didn't have kids, I might have moved to some place in nature, have long walks, travel a lot , keep friends. I may not have reached out to my family as I was hurt by their attitude when I was gay. No abuse or conversion therapy such-but my family is ostrich head in sand-just do what you do as long as you do in private and don't rock the boat. What will people think? Now they have evolved and grown. My old gay scene lifestyle was killing me in the inside. I had to move on-not from being gay, but from that persona I had built and taken on and find a way to live without that stress.

 

Tax benefits and kids-thanks for the laugh -those tax benefits are a drop in the bucket when compared to actual expenses. It is upto the individual how you want to lead your life . Life is short and this country at least being gay is not a crime-other countries you can be put in jail for it. Now the supreme court has actually ruled gays and transgender are protected from being fired due to our sexuality-so one more step for us.

 

But you have to figure out what your interests are, where you can be yourself and do you really need a relationship or perhaps friends/hobbies that you never thought of, but sounds interesting -say kite flying or knitting and meet people you would never meet and who don't look at you from that sexual angle or your sexuality or such. Whether in a relationship or outside, all of us need to let loose and be ourselves without all the outer shell.

 

Makes sense. I can unapologetically say I'm definitely not in the best place right now life wise. Not that it's horrible (the gym is open so still trying to maintain image wise). But it's more just everything else. Car troubles, men troubles, family troubles, friend troubles, living situation troubles, my current location market troubles (Kansas City is becoming among my list of most miserable cities I've lived in) and the just goes on lol.

 

I know they say you have to "be the man who you want to date", and that nobody wants to be with someone miserable. But it's hard when things aren't falling into place even with the best attempts and intents to make it go right. Financially I've actually been pretty good this year despite the current events, but it's like one thing after the next, and still don't have much of a social circle to do anything when I do get the money. So it's like I've been getting the money and basically just spending it on bullshit every week.

 

But I'm hoping once I make this relocation next week, things will improve. It may even take me a few weeks to shake the residual effects of being in a recurring state of unhappiness and disappointment everytime something doesn't seem to be working out. That's why all the stuff about Covid 19 and Black lives matter... it's great, but I'm struggling with asthma almost everyday (didn't have this problem in Florida lol) and I still don't feel like anyone outside of my paying clients, thinks my life matters.