What's the preffered way to find a resource?

[marylander1940]

Yes, but they are not hired. They are compensated for sure, but they are not hired.

 

Whether you pay them with money or Balenciaga they're escorts.

 

There are many thoughtful and substantial responses in this thread. The bottom line is we are in the middle of a revolution and no one knows exactly what is goin on, what is coming next, and how to navigate this process. Be creative, try to have as much presence as you can in social media, and be alert and attentive to new trends to follow and study.

In your case, perhaps you need to recreate and revitalize your brand. Introduce yourself to the younger guys who may not know you, I understand one of nowadays trends is more and more guys in their 30s are joining the clients team. These guys are probably more into Twitter than into Daddy's reviews or Adam 4 Adam.

We are all walking in the dark, trying step by step to not fall down, if you are trying the new.

 

Guys in their 20's too... Grindr fatigue is among us! Even cute guys have issues finding what they want whenever they want.

[Guest europeanman]

Whether you pay them with money or Balenciaga they're escorts.

You are fixated with Balenciaga. There are so many objects of desire. Move on.

[+ purplekow]

Have you considered opting to spend time in new markets. There must be places to which you travel rarely or not at all. Even mature men are new men when they show up in cities to which they rarely travel. In your case, some of us guys in the northeast would love to have some southern charm heading up here.

[Mocha]

Rentmen seems to have slowed for some reason in most cities, even the A-level markets. Adam4Adam is fairly bargain basement...we are too expensive for that platform most of the time. Guys on Instagram and Twitter just want to chat ENDLESSLY and try to get you to send videos and xxx pics. So, to clients and escorts alike, what's the best platform to use now? Is it just us, or do things seem to be shifting?

 

Pretty much the same as I’ve been saying all along. I’m actually finding the level of demand from Rentmen to be a bit overwhelming in many cities, however it seems to be an equal amount of real and faux types contacting from the site. At the same time, the consolidation of all escort sites to Rentmen has made it the perfect fishing pond. On both sides, for clients and escorts alike.

 

However, despite some people on the forum who think I’m mentally ill (I’ve got to start using insanity pleas to my advantage now, maybe I can retire early and collect a check lol)...I’ll just go ahead and give you my sensible opinion as far as your concern re: “is it just us” from a perspective of someone who has been with many clients, over many years, in many different circumstances:

 

I think you and your partner are a great duo, and I’m glad you found love with someone who is also in the business. However, my experience has shown me that if you really want to get the full benefit of your advertisement, you have to be 1 on 1. I don’t know if you guys work separately or not, but the average client is going to either be too inexperienced for a 3 way or too afraid to do a 3 way. Also, cost is going to be a factor. I don’t know how much you guys charge, but if it’s more than $300, that’s also going to tip the scales of a 1st time client as well.

 

Me personally, as much as I love 3 ways and such, I had to learn that the best results are going to be when you go at it alone. Porn videos seem to convey the idea that 3, 4, 5 way scenes are what people want...it’s simply not true. It’s a fantasy if anything. Most clients want to meet 1 on 1. I remember a time I took down all my selfie porn videos, and my response rate went up.

 

As an example: around this time last week, I did a 3 way with a client and another Black dude who had a banging body (I add emphasis because generally when a client hires me in a 3 som, it’s 99.99% another black guy...so hypothetically, if I were to work with someone, it would most likely be another Black or possible Latino guy) who just “happened” to be there when I arrive. I knew he was there because the client told me. However, trying to do the session almost didn’t work. The client wasn’t communicating what he was wanting, and the other dude was more into me than the client.

 

The client was about to send me home with $250 for 5 minutes, but I mitigated the situation...I had to refocus attention on the client, and essentially lead the other guy to what the client was wanting. Which was getting dicked down by 2 BBCs.

 

The next day, the client reached out to me and said how much fun he had, but next time he wanted to do it 1 on 1. So that’s the thing, if you want the full benefit, you want to shine on your own. Both of you can still work together, but shine on your own.

[Mocha]

Yes but-I still say it's getting to the point where escorts are pricing themselves out of the market. If a guy making 6 figures is hesitant-oh still wanting to hire-but unable to as much-then it will be less clients but at higher prices. But it seems to me there will still come a tipping point because escort fees are increasing much higher than salaries. High escort fees may drive up usage of the Hook-up apps by those inclined to hire.

 

Gman

 

I need to clarify this. I also need to clarify @tristanbaldwin previous statement that “people don’t want to hire” because of fear of backwash, or however it was worded.

 

Clients are not going to be driven to hookup apps because of escort rates. It doesn’t make sense. A client is not going to feel more or less inclined to hire at $50 an hour than $250 an hour. And hookup apps are a proven way to waste time and go to bed horny, unless you’re a stud AND can host AND travel, and in the right area, and have a few hours to spend sifting thru messages.

 

I know it as fact because ever since I turned about 30 (and went ham on my body and photography), a lot of the “can you do it for $100” crowd vanished. Even on adam4adam, the site known for bargains, I get what I ask for and sometimes more. That’s not being arrogant, it just goes to show.

 

Clients are also not driven away by an assertive escort who doesn't take shit from nobody. I used to be the “you’re too nice” escort, and got paid pittance. Now that I actually stand up for myself, and expect a little bit of reliability, I don’t have to beg for my rates anymore. I tell them what it is, and they pick and choose what works for them.

 

The only issue with today’s advertisements, there’s more time wasters than ever. I remember my very first 3 or 4 clients from Rentboy back in 2008 in Dallas, were all serious clients. I was using blurry laptop photos with barely professional photos, but was getting far less dicking around then than I do now. I can’t even remember at one point people started calling and not being serious. Nowadays, I go to a city and 2 out of 4 of those calls are flakes. 4 out of 8 are flakes. Over the course of a month, it’s enough to drive anyone crazy!

[+ Gar1eth]

I need to clarify this. I also need to clarify @tristanbaldwin previous statement that “people don’t want to hire” because of fear of backwash, or however it was worded.

 

Clients are not going to be driven to hookup apps because of escort rates. It doesn’t make sense. A client is not going to feel more or less inclined to hire at $50 an hour than $250 an hour. And hookup apps are a proven way to waste time and go to bed horny, unless you’re a stud AND can host AND travel, and in the right area, and have a few hours to spend sifting thru messages.

 

I know it as fact because ever since I turned about 30 (and went ham on my body and photography), a lot of the “can you do it for $100” crowd vanished. Even on adam4adam, the site known for bargains, I get what I ask for and sometimes more. That’s not being arrogant, it just goes to show.

 

Clients are also not driven away by an assertive escort who doesn't take shit from nobody. I used to be the “you’re too nice” escort, and got paid pittance. Now that I actually stand up for myself, and expect a little bit of reliability, I don’t have to beg for my rates anymore. I tell them what it is, and they pick and choose what works for them.

 

The only issue with today’s advertisements, there’s more time wasters than ever. I remember my very first 3 or 4 clients from Rentboy back in 2008 in Dallas, were all serious clients. I was using blurry laptop photos with barely professional photos, but was getting far less dicking around then than I do now. I can’t even remember at one point people started calling and not being serious. Nowadays, I go to a city and 2 out of 4 of those calls are flakes. 4 out of 8 are flakes. Over the course of a month, it’s enough to drive anyone crazy!

 

 

If I wasn't 100% sure I had the urge to hire or not, or I knew I wanted, but I wasn't entirely sure on the escort, I'd be more willing to chance it at $180 an hour than I would be at $250 to $400 an hour. If I were shelling out $250-$400, I'd need almost a sure thing.

 

Gman

[marylander1940]

If I wasn't 100% sure I had the urge to hire or not, or I knew I wanted, but I wasn't entirely sure on the escort, I'd be more willing to chance it at $180 an hour than I would be at $250 to $400 an hour. If I were shelling out $250-$400, I'd need almost a sure thing.

 

Gman

 

you used to only hire for overnights and weekends. Don’t you think you’ll feel rushed?

You’ll see the glass half empty. It’s like ordering a meal with a coupon you

know you’ll get more cheap stuff

[Epigonos]

I am truly amazed and pleased that so many posters on this thread have made so many cogent comments.

 

You two guys are unique in several ways:

 

• You only take appointments together.
  
• You don’t live in a major metropolitan area.
  
• Your escort travels are very limited geographically.
  
• You have full time jobs outside of escorting which limit your time to escort.
  

I am going to use myself here as an example client. I got together with the two of you two or three years ago and have been looking to do so again ever since. The simple problem is that we have never been in the same place at the same time. I don’t travel to your part of the country and I can’t remember when the two of you were last in Southern California. With the above four limitations you might just be doing as well as you can. I would be willing to bet some serious cash that if you made periodic WELL ANNOUNCED visits to places like San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, D.C., and Atlanta, on rentmen, your client base would increase considerably. Come to Southern California and we are DEFINITELTY on for dinner and a couple of hour of play time.

[LaffingBear]

As I read through this thread, I had to wonder if its the buyers' market thats changing. Being gay is changing.

 

I found myself in San Francisco last Friday, 1030 pm, and stopped in at a former hangout. A gay bar with maybe 20 people in it on Fri night. Nobhill closed last year. The Castro neighborhood is less and less gay.

 

I started hiring in my late 30s when I was able to afford it. Twenty-some years later, it occurs to me that gay men reaching the income level that permits hiring have a much different attitude about sex. 1) they're much less likely to have repressed their desires. 2) there're grindr-like apps by the the dozen. 3) no longer closeted, gay guys go out with straight buds, and can find a pickup in a mainstream venue. 4) while its no substitute for the real thing, its sooo much easier to just get your rocks off watching something online; and any specific desire or fetish is there for the wanting.

 

5) there is a fascinating cultural shift afoot in our country. While I believe our values are shifting towards more permissive in many ways... societal attitudes are shifting back towards puritanical. I never hid my hiring activities from close friends. I didn't broadcast my exploits to the world, but I told some - even regaled them with tales of pornstar sessions, or occassional scam disappointments. I wonder if a 40 year old guy today would feel differently about the need or desire to hire. If theres a "geez, you need to pay for it?" factor along with some judgment related to anti-prostitution or exploitation.

 

Just random musings... whats happening on the promotional-supply side of the equation may have alot to do with the demand side.

[+ tassojunior]

It's all supply and demand. Everything has it's price and you have to adjust your price down until demand increases or you decide it's not worth the effort at that low a price. Those who have done much retailing know that quantity usually makes up for quality in price. You make more money with much greater sales at lower price 99% of the time (but don't go below full-capacity price either).

 

An example: friends of mine escort and are very popular so get mostly $300 bookings in the US and they average 1 or 2 a day. In Europe Zurich is very popular because even though the rate is only $150, it's easy to get 3 or 4 clients per day.

[Mocha]

If I wasn't 100% sure I had the urge to hire or not, or I knew I wanted, but I wasn't entirely sure on the escort, I'd be more willing to chance it at $180 an hour than I would be at $250 to $400 an hour. If I were shelling out $250-$400, I'd need almost a sure thing.

 

Gman

 

That’s true and makes perfect sense. To a degree, price does matter. Which is why I mentioned once we start going more than $300, for a 1st time client, that may be quite a bit.

 

Thats why I do the massage sites, even though it can be a bargain too sometimes. I can start someone off at 150/200 which is universally, a default donation in all markets. And if they decide (which is usually the case) they want to upgrade, they can do that too.

 

But what I was trying to say is (and please note I’m not arguing at you, I’m arguing a general point)

 

A) clients don’t stop hiring because of rates

B) clients don’t stop hiring due to fear

 

The decision for clients to hire is purely based on circumstances and availability. When I used to live in Orlando, majority of my clients were guys staying at resorts. Or the bi/half married types. Why? Because there’s no shortage of gay in Orlando. Even if I charged $50 for an hour of full service bareback, guys in Orlando still wouldn’t go for it, because there’s enough of that available for free already. However, most free guys aren’t willing to go to a resort 20 miles outside of the city, pay $18 to park, and all that jazz. So they called me.

 

But even still: even that doesn’t matter all the time. I’ve had plenty of clients tell me about their bathhouse escapades. It’s just really down to what they need, when they need it. And that’s going to be dictated by many factors such as:

 

• How open minded the demographics of a city/state
  
• How accessible are other guys offering what you have
  
• How much notice are gay paid websites getting in certain cities/markets
  

[LivingnLA]

What an awesome thread. So many thoughtful replies. You've been in this business long enough to know how to run a good service. Here are some off the cuff thoughts from cruising altitude:

1. Know what clients want. Create buzz, mystery, excitement around your service and how you fulfill those wants.
   
2. Understand where the money is because this industry requires significant disposable income.
   
3. Think about where clients want to hire. Near home where it's convenient? Or while they travel for work or vacation for discretion? Understand how different groups of clients will have very different expectations around this point.
   
4. Research current themes, trends, and kinks that appeal to you as work you can do well and that will appeal to clients.
   
5. Realize the market is saturated more than ever with low cost or no cost competitors. Differentiation becomes key. How do you stand out? What makes your service experience worth the effort, risk and cost of hiring you?
   
6. Know that sexual activity, especially for men, is declining in the developed world as a growing number of people abstain, avoid, or minimize sexual activity in their lives, particularly those under 40. How do you respond? Maybe make your service about intimacy, connection, comfort, and more?
   
7. Really dig into the criticality of creating an experience because the under 40 consumer is very focused on memorable experiences especially related to wellness, health, and social activities.
   
8. More and more discretionary spending is going into health and wellness. Could this be an avenue to explore? Do you live in a remote location or have access to a remote location where destination retreats or other wellness weekends could be created? Do you have interests in nutrition and fitness? Could you see yourself creating a daddy-themed coaching service? Workout retreats?
   

https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/investing/T006-S001-millionaires-in-america-2019-all-50-states-ranked/index.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-americans-not-having-sex-has-reached-record-high/

https://www.fastcompany.com/90247896/these-10-market-trends-turned-wellness-into-a-4-2-trillion-global-industry

[marylander1940]

You are fixated with Balenciaga. There are so many objects of desire. Move on.

 

I guess if you're giving an expensive gift in exchange you're paying and he's escorting

 

Some guys even offer a $250 Walmart gift card. Obviously it's given upfront and the escorts checks online right away that it has funds on it.

[marylander1940]

It's all supply and demand. Everything has it's price and you have to adjust your price down until demand increases or you decide it's not worth the effort at that low a price. Those who have done much retailing know that quantity usually makes up for quality in price. You make more money with much greater sales at lower price 99% of the time (but don't go below full-capacity price either).

 

An example: friends of mine escort and are very popular so get mostly $300 bookings in the US and they average 1 or 2 a day. In Europe Zurich is very popular because even though the rate is only $150, it's easy to get 3 or 4 clients per day.

 

It's also legal in most European countries, that has some influence in the price.

[+ tassojunior]

It's also legal in most European countries, that has some influence in the price.

 

Working as an escort is illegal for non-residents in Europe as is non-payment of taxes. Several cities, including Zurich, have had crackdowns.

[+ WilliamM]

Working as an escort is illegal for non-residents in Europe as is non-payment of taxes. Several cities, including Zurich, have had crackdowns.

 

I have only hired in London (a little) and Berlin (often). I agree about Zurich. It was a long time ago, perhaps the Zurich train station has fewer hustling now.

[+ tassojunior]

I have only hired in London (a little) and Berlin (often). I agree about Zurich. It was a long time ago, perhaps the Zurich train station has fewer hustling now.

 

Zurich now has Paragonya Escort Sauna where guys will have sex in a cabin for 100 and many porn stars online from all over Europe and Brazil. Escorting is legal but not working without a permit or paying taxes. The Swiss are down on that more than most.

 

It's all about the Benjamins.

[marylander1940]

Working as an escort is illegal for non-residents in Europe as is non-payment of taxes. Several cities, including Zurich, have had crackdowns.

 

No doubt but in general is legal unlike here in the states where is illegal except in two or three counties in Nevada.

 

Switzerland is not part of the European Union makes a hell of a difference

[Rangar]

Nobody has mentioned this but It is my understanding from a few providers that I have talked with that the summer months are a slower time.

[+ tassojunior]

No doubt but in general is legal unlike here in the states where is illegal except in two or three counties in Nevada.

 

Switzerland is not part of the European Union makes a hell of a difference

 

Switzerland is in the single market so makes no difference. Same rules as EU. But in Europe and Switzerland especially they are very harsh on any non-permit work or nonpayment of taxes even of escorts. And Zurich has had an influx of Brazilians who cant work legally so many other escorts and clients have complained to officials.

 

In Europe its all about the Benjamins for sure. They are much harsher for tax purposes than we are for moral reasons.

[marylander1940]

Switzerland is in the single market so makes no difference. Same rules as EU. But in Europe and Switzerland especially they are very harsh on any non-permit work or nonpayment of taxes even of escorts. And Zurich has had an influx of Brazilians who cant work legally so many other escorts and clients have complained to officials.

 

In Europe its all about the Benjamins for sure. They are much harsher for tax purposes than we are for moral reasons.

 

Exactly!

 

I guess they don't want immigrants to go there and get untraceable mostly cash jobs like waiting tables or posting an ad on RM. That's what I meant. We agree.

[+ tassojunior]

Exactly!

 

I guess they don't want immigrants to go there and get untraceable mostly cash jobs like waiting tables or posting an ad on RM. That's what I meant. We agree.

 

Yes. Murder and tax evasion are taken very seriously in Europe. Not necessarily in that order.

[Mocha]

Nobody has mentioned this but It is my understanding from a few providers that I have talked with that the summer months are a slower time.

 

Summer can be weird. On the one hand you have the better weather which brings more guys out to play, on the other hand you all the distractions along with it: vacations, some other businesses also being slow, and possibly would be clients doing kids/grandkids stuff.

 

This month I’ve gone to 5 different cities. I was planning to include 2 more cities, but it didn’t look ideal. My up north trip coincided with the longer than usual 4th of July weekend, and it was dead from that Thursday until Monday. I find the later part of summer: August and September are better than June and July. However...I made out pretty well overall, even in Nashville which is near where @TylerandAce are based, a place that can periodically be slow...I was satisfied with what I walked away with the trip.

 

I was even booked by one of the tour members of quite a famous music artist who was performing in Nashville. That’s why I don’t worry what people have to say about me, especially not on here. I’m going to be good regardless.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Nobody has mentioned this but It is my understanding from a few providers that I have talked with that the summer months are a slower time.

 

Summer is bank for higher-end guys. That's when long-term hire clients are looking for vacation company.

[rogerG]

My balls hang particularly low in summer. That means I feel them rub all over everything as they push my sweaty cock shaft from side to side as I move around. All this activity down there makes me more horny in the summer. It's made worse when I go down there with my hand to readjust the equipment and without skipping a beat, I bring that hand to my nose and take a whiff. Oh the sweet smell of summer...