Just checking: Are rates holding steady?

[Mocha]

Happy belated/upcoming Holidays/New Year/Valentines/Grammies/Oscars to all. I’ve been away. Now that’s out the way:

 

This is mostly a hypothetical question, but I’m getting the impression that due to rates not really being posted in many places, it’s probably hard for providers and clients to tell what the market is right now.

 

I know for me, every since I turned 30...my rates have been consistently 250-300 in most all markets. I’m open to do 150 for very introductory type of visits. But overnights and longer evening sessions seem to be down at the moment.

 

However, part of me still feels people are contacting with an unrealistic expection of price. There’s still in some markets (Denver, for example despite housing averaging $400,000) , has the annoying “I can spend $100” going around. I try to explain to people, $100 is not sustainable. (though admittedly, this comes from a4a versus the main sites).

 

I’ve been able to create a rate structure that works with majority of the people who contact me, but I wish other sites had a better understanding of why the charge for higher rates. I could hypothetically charge $100/hr and see 10 clients a day and make $1,000. But the issue is, out of those 10, only 1 or 2 may show up. Some people ask for discounts and still don’t show up. When traveling, that’s only $200. And that’s assuming each one doesn’t ask for me to climax, which would ultimately leave me with less to “give” the next client.

 

That’s why I prefer to not see more than 1 to 2 clients a day (though I generally don’t have inclination to see people “per day”, but rather “per week” or “per trip”), maybe 3 if the first is in the morning and the last is in the later evening. That way I don’t have to worry about half-stepping with anyone.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Mocha

[hypothetically]

...my two cents.

Escorting is very much “trending” right now in larger markets like New York. Everyone wants to sell what they’re serving and there’s very little filet mignon and a whole lot of forest ham. I’ve noticed over time that clients are not willing to pay higher rates as in I previous years because the quality of service has rapidly declined. But on another token you also have an influx of escorts whose service is incredible and charge less. It could be either or, depending on where you are.

 

If I was a client and was being charged $300/hr and was consistently underwhelmed with the level of service. I’d lower my maximum also.

 

I don’t think it has anything to do with the economy, because clients are still very much paying if you are reputable, have a good track record, reviews, etc. You are running a business at the end of the day. Change your business model.

[MscleLovr]

I don’t think it has anything to do with the economy, because clients are still very much paying if you are reputable, have a good track record, reviews, etc.

From speaking to various friends who hire, I feel that this statement remains very true.

 

there’s very little filet mignon and a whole lot of forest ham.

I really like this @hypothetically

 

When I hired, I only ever wanted ‘filet mignon’ and would pay the requisite price. 10-15 years ago, there were many handsome and athletic working guys that met my needs. But 5-10 years ago, it seems to me that quite a lot of handsome muscleboys started to work on an amateur/part-time/occasional basis; they offered lower rates and high quality service. I feel this trend put rates under downwards pressure.

[corndog]

Perhaps its just odd luck, but I've noticed some really low rates recently. When I've inquired, I've had several guys come back with rates of $150/hr and a couple even offering $100. These were newbies, not experienced, well-reviewed providers, but nevertheless, I'm feeling like rates might be dropping.

 

Now that none of the sites are listing rates, I think it's a lot more difficult for new escorts to learn the "going rate."

[KeepItReal]

The trend on major sites (rentmen etc) to not show rates has results in a lack of transparency and difficulty for both providers and clients to judge the realities of today's market and to set appropriate expectations. I am lucky to have two regular providers - we are comfortable with one another and know exactly what to expect. I was approached by a young gentleman the other day and his expectations were way beyond what I would have expected, so I politely declined; part of this was the fact that he isn't local (traveling wannabe instagram model type) and I like to cultivate repeat experiences, which ultimately result in a better outcome for all involved.

 

So @Mocha I can't speak to your business model, but I suspect your hypothesis about the impact of not posting rates is not far off the mark. Both my providers charge $200 per hour for their time here in NYC, they haven't changed their rates in a few years - in fact we haven't talked about rates in a long time so they would likely charge more for new clients - I do make up for it by tipping generously. Your rate of $250 seems reasonable to me....

[hypothetically]

@KeepItReal & @corndog, here in Europe, rates are visible on sites where providers advertise and there is little consistency in rates or escorts do not disclose altogether.

[KeepItReal]

@KeepItReal & @corndog, here in Europe, rates are visible on sites where providers advertise and there is little consistency in rates or escorts do not disclose altogether.

Good point. I can only speak to my experience in the US market, New York City in particular.

[Mocha]

...my two cents.

Escorting is very much “trending” right now in larger markets like New York. Everyone wants to sell what they’re serving and there’s very little filet mignon and a whole lot of forest ham. I’ve noticed over time that clients are not willing to pay higher rates as in I previous years because the quality of service has rapidly declined. But on another token you also have an influx of escorts whose service is incredible and charge less. It could be either or, depending on where you are.

 

If I was a client and was being charged $300/hr and was consistently underwhelmed with the level of service. I’d lower my maximum also.

 

I don’t think it has anything to do with the economy, because clients are still very much paying if you are reputable, have a good track record, reviews, etc. You are running a business at the end of the day. Change your business model.

 

That’s very true. Despite the fact that the word “escort” has pretty much been banned in America, “Rentmen” has been increasing in numbers in cities where there used to only be 10-20 “rentboys”. Dallas for example: In 2008 I still remember there were only 10 guys maybe advertising. A basic bronze ad on rentboy would have a client within1 day. Nowadays, there’s about 40 to 50 rentmen in Dallas.

 

I’m probably one of the few that still dabble in the adam4adam market. For some reason, I can’t seem to stay off of it, but I should mention that a lot of the rate issues seem to come from there. However, you have all sides. There’s still guys there willing to pay deserving prices, but only if one is able to tolerate a regular serving of “that’s a bit too steep for me”, or “I was only thinking of paying $80.” However, sometimes I enjoy explaining to these guys why I can’t charge $80. Because after room and tax, trip costs, etc...$80 can disappear with the swipe of a card. So only way I can charge $80 is to have 2 guys before you, and 2 guys after you. Is that what they want. But for the most part, I don’t expend too much energy responding to those, and prefer those who already understand.

 

However I’m a bit confused about “change your business model”. Elaborate?

[hypothetically]

That’s very true. Despite the fact that the word “escort” has pretty much been banned in America, “Rentmen” has been increasing in numbers in cities where there used to only be 10-20 “rentboys”. Dallas for example: In 2008 I still remember there were only 10 guys maybe advertising. A basic bronze ad on rentboy would have a client within1 day. Nowadays, there’s about 40 to 50 rentmen in Dallas.

 

I’m probably one of the few that still dabble in the adam4adam market. For some reason, I can’t seem to stay off of it, but I should mention that a lot of the rate issues seem to come from there. However, you have all sides. There’s still guys there willing to pay deserving prices, but only if one is able to tolerate a regular serving of “that’s a bit too steep for me”, or “I was only thinking of paying $80.” However, sometimes I enjoy explaining to these guys why I can’t charge $80. Because after room and tax, trip costs, etc...$80 can disappear with the swipe of a card. So only way I can charge $80 is to have 2 guys before you, and 2 guys after you. Is that what they want. But for the most part, I don’t expend too much energy responding to those, and prefer those who already understand.

 

However I’m a bit confused about “change your business model”. Elaborate?

 

With all due respect, you using A4A as a source for clientele is entirely the tissue of this is your primary source for work. You are working with a completely different demographic and wallet size. While I understand Rentmen can be expensive, it’s expensive for a reason. It gives you access to a different “tier” of clientele and who are more than willing to pay $80. That’s not reasonable. I don’t care what city you live in. Even in Europe where the cost of living is significantly lower, the average is more than $80. Maybe retire A4A and invest in RM. It has flaws, yes, but it’s more monetary than A4A, yuck.

 

Change your business model aka, update your photos, text, take a break, “remodel the place,” and re-open the business. Clients get tired of looking at the same thing. Reinvent yourself somehow or remove yourself from the grid if you’ve been in the same city for a long time.

[Mocha]

With all due respect, you using A4A as a source for clientele is entirely the tissue of this is your primary source for work. You are working with a completely different demographic and wallet size. While I understand Rentmen can be expensive, it’s expensive for a reason. It gives you access to a different “tier” of clientele and who are more than willing to pay $80. That’s not reasonable. I don’t care what city you live in. Even in Europe where the cost of living is significantly lower, the average is more than $80. Maybe retire A4A and invest in RM. It has flaws, yes, but it’s more monetary than A4A, yuck.

 

Change your business model aka, update your photos, text, take a break, “remodel the place,” and re-open the business. Clients get tired of looking at the same thing. Reinvent yourself somehow or remove yourself from the grid if you’ve been in the same city for a long time.

 

Somehow I must have not clarified. A4A is certainly not my main source for clientele. I’ve been with Rentmen since it first started up around 2009, along with RB and M4RN at the time. I was mainly suggesting that A4A is more of a supplementary site to use, but I’m aware that “rates” there have no ebb and flow.

 

I recently stopped my rebill of a4a, simply because sometimes I do take couple months off advertising there. But, I wouldn’t quite write off a4a as “yuck”. I know it’s not a site to actively engage in (I tend to just post my number, and only answer 1 or 2 emails from people who write in a complete sentence...like once a day). However...it comes in handy.

 

Adam4Adam can be good if end up in a city unexpectantly or for short period. Rentmen can take awhile to build up responses because, some cities...it’s the same guys or no guys at all. Men get bored and look at other sites. Adam4Adam keeps people entertained enough, so when a good provider shows up, they may bite. There’s even guys on this forum who use A4A. However, maybe Europe it’s different. A4A more dominant in America.

 

I actually am finding more time wasters are coming from Rentmen now than adam4adam. The rates are better on Rentmen, but the turnover is higher, and you made a good point about the filet mignon analogy. See post regarding the wind up clients. Most of those are ones contacting me from rentmen. Most people on Adam don’t bother texting me unless they’re interested in a service.

[hypothetically]

Somehow I must have not clarified. A4A is certainly not my main source for clientele. I’ve been with Rentmen since it first started up around 2009, along with RB and M4RN at the time. I was mainly suggesting that A4A is more of a supplementary site to use, but I’m aware that “rates” there have no ebb and flow.

 

I recently stopped my rebill of a4a, simply because sometimes I do take couple months off advertising there. But, I wouldn’t quite write off a4a as “yuck”. I know it’s not a site to actively engage in (I tend to just post my number, and only answer 1 or 2 emails from people who write in a complete sentence...like once a day). However...it comes in handy.

 

Adam4Adam can be good if end up in a city unexpectantly or for short period. Rentmen can take awhile to build up responses because, some cities...it’s the same guys or no guys at all. Men get bored and look at other sites. Adam4Adam keeps people entertained enough, so when a good provider shows up, they may bite. There’s even guys on this forum who use A4A. However, maybe Europe it’s different. A4A more dominant in America.

 

I actually am finding more time wasters are coming from Rentmen now than adam4adam. The rates are better on Rentmen, but the turnover is higher, and you made a good point about the filet mignon analogy. See post regarding the wind up clients. Most of those are ones contacting me from rentmen. Most people on Adam don’t bother texting me unless they’re interested in a service.

 

Hmmm I’m not sure A4A is more “dominant” in America. I’m not sure if you meant per active users and the website trending or if you meant it’s usage in contrast to RM. Any respectable (lol) escort who makes a substantial amount of money will tell you A4A is not their first choice. Additionally, I’ve been using A4A for over 10 years and the website has been in rapid decline ever since the arrival of hookup applications. I never found it useful for hiring. The interface/navigation is very dated (even with an aesthetic overhaul) and the quality of people, eh..whimsical and unproductive.

 

There are timewasters on any and every application where gay men are looking for sex, so. It’s how you navigate these portals, I guess. I prefer the high turnover of RM vs 5+ low income clients.

 

You also have a reputation to hold. Referrals from high paying clients to high paying clients are my best friend.

You shouldn’t compromise the quality of client you take just like a client wouldnt compromise the quality of escort he hires. Just my opinion.

[Mocha]

Hmmm I’m not sure A4A is more “dominant” in America. I’m not sure if you meant per active users and the website trending or if you meant it’s usage in contrast to RM. Any respectable (lol) escort who makes a substantial amount of money will tell you A4A is not their first choice. Additionally, I’ve been using A4A for over 10 years and the website has been in rapid decline ever since the arrival of hookup applications. I never found it useful for hiring. The interface/navigation is very dated (even with an aesthetic overhaul) and the quality of people, eh..whimsical and unproductive.

 

There are timewasters on any and every application where gay men are looking for sex, so. It’s how you navigate these portals, I guess. I prefer the high turnover of RM vs 5+ low income clients.

 

You also have a reputation to hold. Referrals from high paying clients to high paying clients are my best friend.

You shouldn’t compromise the quality of client you take just like a client wouldnt compromise the quality of escort he hires. Just my opinion.

 

I don’t know bruther, guess it varies. I still say clients on a4a are no lesser in quality than Rentmen. Rentmen doesn’t just have flakes, they have lots of scammers, spammers, and all sorts. That’s not Rentmen’s fault, but remember: atleast with adam4adam I can see the clients photo and age and stats. I usually never meet an adam4adam client who doesn’t show a pic.

 

But Rentmen: I’ve had to start asking clients to introduce themselves. Just because I’m an escort, it’s not 1995 where I want to meet someone off the internet blindly with no clue of them.

 

Yes, the replies on a4a can be stomach churning, and yes there’s some bad apples on a4a, and yes some are even to be avoided. But there’s no compromising quality when meeting someone from a4a. My client yesterday: was from a4a. I pulled up right behind his Bimmer. The city I’m staying in is ultra-conservative. Rentmen is barely known, and I don’t get much biz from it in these type of areas. That’s when a4a helps.

 

 

To me, the rapid decline of a4a has made it slightly better: most of the weirdos and nuisances have moved on to the apps, so now it’s a more refined site, with less fluff/spam/bored wankers that you get with Grindr and company.

[hypothetically]

I don’t know bruther, guess it varies. I still say clients on a4a are no lesser in quality than Rentmen. Rentmen doesn’t just have flakes, they have lots of scammers, spammers, and all sorts. That’s not Rentmen’s fault, but remember: atleast with adam4adam I can see the clients photo and age and stats. I usually never meet an adam4adam client who doesn’t show a pic.

 

But Rentmen: I’ve had to start asking clients to introduce themselves. Just because I’m an escort, it’s not 1995 where I want to meet someone off the internet blindly with no clue of them.

 

Yes, the replies on a4a can be stomach churning, and yes there’s some bad apples on a4a, and yes some are even to be avoided. But there’s no compromising quality when meeting someone from a4a. My client yesterday: was from a4a. I pulled up right behind his Bimmer. The city I’m staying in is ultra-conservative. Rentmen is barely known, and I don’t get much biz from it in these type of areas. That’s when a4a helps.

 

 

To me, the rapid decline of a4a has made it slightly better: most of the weirdos and nuisances have moved on to the apps, so now it’s a more refined site, with less fluff/spam/bored wankers that you get with Grindr and company.

 

Again, I think you just like to rant...and that’s fine.

[Mocha]

Again, I think you just like to rant...and that’s fine.

 

That’s not a rant, sir. I’m just saying I have a different opinion/results regarding a4a. To me, especially considering men4rent and backpage are gone, a4a is still worthwhile having around.

[hypothetically]

That’s not a rant, sir. I’m just saying I have a different opinion/results regarding a4a. To me, especially considering men4rent and backpage are gone, a4a is still worthwhile having around.

 

...ok.

[marylander1940]

Happy belated/upcoming Holidays/New Year/Valentines/Grammies/Oscars to all. I’ve been away. Now that’s out the way:

 

This is mostly a hypothetical question, but I’m getting the impression that due to rates not really being posted in many places, it’s probably hard for providers and clients to tell what the market is right now.

 

I know for me, every since I turned 30...my rates have been consistently 250-300 in most all markets. I’m open to do 150 for very introductory type of visits. But overnights and longer evening sessions seem to be down at the moment.

 

However, part of me still feels people are contacting with an unrealistic expection of price. There’s still in some markets (Denver, for example despite housing averaging $400,000) , has the annoying “I can spend $100” going around. I try to explain to people, $100 is not sustainable. (though admittedly, this comes from a4a versus the main sites).

 

I’ve been able to create a rate structure that works with majority of the people who contact me, but I wish other sites had a better understanding of why the charge for higher rates. I could hypothetically charge $100/hr and see 10 clients a day and make $1,000. But the issue is, out of those 10, only 1 or 2 may show up. Some people ask for discounts and still don’t show up. When traveling, that’s only $200. And that’s assuming each one doesn’t ask for me to climax, which would ultimately leave me with less to “give” the next client.

 

That’s why I prefer to not see more than 1 to 2 clients a day (though I generally don’t have inclination to see people “per day”, but rather “per week” or “per trip”), maybe 3 if the first is in the morning and the last is in the later evening. That way I don’t have to worry about half-stepping with anyone.

 

Bottom feeders from late sites like BP and CL are still discovering a new world and therefore still suggesting $100 or $150

[+ tassojunior]

Even MassuerFinder is $300 like Rentmen. Either easily makes $300/month more than any others. Usually $300/day more.

[Mocha]

Even MassuerFinder is $300 like Rentmen. Either easily makes $300/month more than any others. Usually $300/day more.

 

If I were advertising on masseur finder, I'd be charging $300 too. Their advertising prices are...more than phone bill and insurance payment. I don't care if 1 or 2 clients pays for the ad. That's like an employer taking $200 out of someone's paycheck, but saying, "working 5 days a week will pay for itself though".

 

That assumes nobody cancels, and if you charge $300, one cancellation is like a a whole day off work. That's why when the whole federal shutdown was going on, I was just like damn. They don't know how to handle it. I go thru this shit every fucking week. People cancel, flake, don't show, disappear and book two, three weeks later. Meantime I have bills AND advertisement fees.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Mocha