Objectifying?

[rogerG]

I confess to having had a crush on JB, but he came off as ugly as a person, so his book turned me off on him.

It's not fun discovering the beauty you once had a crush on turned out to be an ugly human being. IMO, entitlement is an erection killer.

 

That said, as much as I might possibly enjoy a dinner conversation with Calvin, Valentino, and Elton, I sincerely doubt I could muster having sex with either man. A gay man who has had too much cosmetic work done is a turn-off for me. I just can't see beyond the mask. If I'm going to go older, I prefer all natural and less vanity.

[+ WilliamM]

You hit it on the nail. JB came off as arrogant and entitled in that book. If Valentino had forced himself on JB, I could understand, but if his account is accurate, Valentino was being very nice to him, and didn't deserve to be mocked. I confess to having had a crush on JB, but he came off as ugly as a person, so his book turned me off on him. Another book/autobiography that totally turned me off of a physically beautiful man is Joe Putignano's Acrobaddict. That man seems to be the ultimate sociopath with no sense of decency. I would imagine that if it weren't for his looks, he'd probably be spending most of his life in jail. Some men with exceptional looks get away with incredibly bad behavior. I would prefer to keep my SO's country of origin private for now, although I'm willing to say he's not Brazilian. If he ever comes out, I'll be willing to share.

 

The wonderful Mr Miniver once posted here that the only entertaiment stars the same professionally and in private were Jimmy Stewart and Ethel Merman.

[+ sync]

Relationships are as individual as the individuals within them. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." The one thing I might address is, jumping back to his comment "Unicorn, I don't appreciate your objectifying me!". I would have been inclined to make it clear to him that when I compliment his appearance, it is a compliment, not an objectification, and that him thinking that of me is disappointing.

[LivingnLA]

@Unicorn, I strongly urge you to talk this through with a professional therapist or a close thoughtful friend. Because of how y'all met, there is a clear power dynamic but it seems like you're unaware or unwilling to acknowledge it because it cheapens or invalidates the relationship in your mind. Perhaps I'm completely misreading everything, but it feels as though you're anxious and worried about it being real or him leaving you because he's so smart and attractive. As a result, you're objectifying him in ways that create tension and possible resentment on his part. Welcome to relationships! All relationships have give and take, power dynamics, objectification, authenticity, and more. They're complicated and messy and wonderful.

 

Is it possible he's completely lying and acting? Yes, it's possible. But, given how much time you spend together, he'd have to be sociopathic or psychopathic to pull it off without you being aware unless you're actively self-deceiving and in denial.

 

Nobody likes to be objectified (reduced to their attributes). We do love being acknowledged for the ways we excel, but once we are friends/intimate with someone, we expect more from people and begin to resent shallow compliments. I understand you are strongly attracted to him and you want to spend the rest of your life with him, but you need some perspective. You need to seriously look at how you're thinking and talking about him and your relationship. What about him makes your heart beat faster? Really listen to yourself and how you think about him. Imagine what happens when he's "old" or god-forbid in a terrible accident. Will you still want him around? Be honest with yourself. Successful relationships require communication and a degree of honesty.

 

The "being out" issue could destroy the relationship if the two of you don't work through it together. I gather he comes from a conservative family from a machismo culture. If you continue to push him about it, he will resent you and you will resent him. Your journey is not his and his is not yours. If you truly love him the way you claim, talk to him! Find out his fears and why he's hesitant. See if there's a way you can talk about them to help him grow and develop to a point where he decides on his own to come out.

 

I urge communication but recognize that men from conservative machismo cultures frequently tend to be unable to articulate their emotions and thoughts in clear mature ways. Perhaps consider therapy? If he's open to it, this might help him to develop the emotional intelligence and skills to even communicate and think about these issues in a mature way and understand why they mean so much to you.

 

I'm sorry if I seem harsh. I'm trying to cut through some things because right now you are actively possibly sabotaging the relationship in a couple ways and I want you to be aware before it's too late.

[MscleLovr]

An interesting and thoughtful response @LivingnLA (tho I'm no fan of therapy)

[LivingnLA]

An interesting and thoughtful response @LivingnLA (tho I'm no fan of therapy)

 

Therapy isn't a perfect solution. It requires a degree of emotional awareness and openness that isn't for everyone.

 

For "machismo silent types" therapy may never be effective or even welcome. Instead, what can work is modeling behavior so work toward exposing him to "real men" who are empathic, aware, and emotionally intelligent.

[+ Reisr30]

I know this is off topic but does seeking arrangements require you be worth 7 or 8 figures? Seems like in order to be successful on the site it’s requires a HNW and it’s not really for people of more modest means. Is that correct or am I off the mark?

[Guest]

@Unicorn,...

The "being out" issue could destroy the relationship if the two of you don't work through it together. I gather he comes from a conservative family from a machismo culture. If you continue to push him about it, he will resent you and you will resent him. Your journey is not his and his is not yours. If you truly love him the way you claim, talk to him! Find out his fears and why he's hesitant. See if there's a way you can talk about them to help him grow and develop to a point where he decides on his own to come out....

One thing I know for sure, it's definitely not about machismo. The problem is his mother is very religious, and he's afraid being out would destroy his relationship with her. Although he claims to believe in God and be Catholic, he's never gone to church once the whole time we've been together, even for Easter, although I live 3 blocks from a Catholic church and have told him on multiple occasions that he can go to church any time he likes. I will not be responsible if the church ignites on fire when he enters, though! It would be even worse for me if I entered!

We've been texting every day, and I'm about to take my 2-day journey, flying to Miami (the 3rd) and then flying to and meeting him in San Juan the 4th. He's taking a marathon way over, starting at 6:30 AM from South America, changing planes in Panama City. He texted me earlier saying how much he's been eager to get together again. He knows he has my full support no matter what happens. I've never missed someone so much in my life.

Earlier today, I showed one of the nurses at work a picture of him without a shirt on our hotel balcony. Her jaw dropped and she said "Oh! My! God!".

[LivingnLA]

One thing I know for sure, it's definitely not about machismo. The problem is his mother is very religious, and he's afraid being out would destroy his relationship with her. Although he claims to believe in God and be Catholic, he's never gone to church once the whole time we've been together, even for Easter, although I live 3 blocks from a Catholic church and have told him on multiple occasions that he can go to church any time he likes. I will not be responsible if the church ignites on fire when he enters, though! It would be even worse for me if I entered!

We've been texting every day, and I'm about to take my 2-day journey, flying to Miami (the 3rd) and then flying to and meeting him in San Juan the 4th. He's taking a marathon way over, starting at 6:30 AM from South America, changing planes in Panama City. He texted me earlier saying how much he's been eager to get together again. He knows he has my full support no matter what happens. I've never missed someone so much in my life.

Earlier today, I showed one of the nurses at work a picture of him without a shirt on our hotel balcony. Her jaw dropped and she said "Oh! My! God!".

 

Male children in Latinx cultures tend to have deep connections with their mothers, so that makes sense as a reason not to come out. Is he the oldest or only male? That would amplify the connection and the risk. I'm glad he's eager to return and you are too. Though, why the continued performative objectifying? You know he doesn't like it and yet you intentionally objectified and bragged to a coworker about him? Please consider the implications and impact of your actions and words.

[+ WilliamM]

Male children in Latinx cultures tend to have deep connections with their mothers, so that makes sense as a reason not to come out. Is he the oldest or only male? That would amplify the connection and the risk. I'm glad he's eager to return and you are too. Though, why the continued performative objectifying? You know he doesn't like it and yet you intentionally objectified and bragged to a coworker about him? Please consider the implications and impact of your actions and words.

 

I agree about the strong connection with mothers. Also, @Unicorn has written about other romantic relationships here over the years.

 

So in Unicorn's defense, he has quite a bit of experience. I have been more than a bit critical of this relationship because of his SO's mom - a very difficult situation.

[Guest]

Male children in Latinx cultures tend to have deep connections with their mothers, so that makes sense as a reason not to come out. Is he the oldest or only male? That would amplify the connection and the risk. I'm glad he's eager to return and you are too. Though, why the continued performative objectifying? You know he doesn't like it and yet you intentionally objectified and bragged to a coworker about him? Please consider the implications and impact of your actions and words.

He has two older sisters and a brother who's a few years younger (studying in Kansas). You're assuming I'm bragging/objectifying. I told the nurse with whom I was working that I was leaving for the Caribbean to meet my domestic partner for the cruise. She asked to see his picture, and had the reaction which she had (almost fainted ). I won't tell my love of the interaction. I now know I need to keep my thoughts about his looks to myself, but my feelings are what they are.

[LivingnLA]

So in Unicorn's defense, he has quite a bit of experience. I have been more than a bit critical of this relationship because of his SO's mom - a very difficult situation.

 

Why defend? I'm not attacking @Unicorn. I'm being upfront and transparent, but that's because I'm attempting to clarify the situation based on what I've read and help navigate this relationship that appears to cause quite a bit of tension and worry for him along with all the positive feelings and experiences.

[LivingnLA]

You're assuming I'm bragging/objectifying. I told the nurse with whom I was working that I was leaving for the Caribbean to meet my domestic partner for the cruise. She asked to see his picture, and had the reaction which she had (almost fainted ). I won't tell my love of the interaction. I now know I need to keep my thoughts about his looks to myself, but my feelings are what they are.

 

I am sorry if my posts seem harsh or like attacks. I truly am not attacking you or your feelings. I hear and respect where you're coming from and I'm trying to use my outside perspective as a lens through which I can show another point of view.

 

I'm not assuming. I'm attempting to provide an external 3rd-party perspective. If a coworker asked to see a picture of my wife, I would not show a topless intimate pic because of the implicit objectification of her looks and the subtle brag of "look how hot my wife is" kind of vibe.

 

I'm glad you won't tell him. Though, it's not about "keeping your thoughts to yourself." I urge you to interrogate your thoughts and complicate them. This man you claim such strong emotions about is more than his rock-hard abs and chiseled features, right? I mean, he sounds undoubtedly hot physically, but aren't you attracted to him for more than that? Doesn't his intellect and obvious dedication/passion truly light your fire? His body is a combination of genetics and his focused application of dedicated effort. That is something to admire and congratulate him on, not the result which isn't wholly under his control.

Edited January 3, 2019 by LivingnLA

[+ WilliamM]

Why defend? I'm not attacking @Unicorn. I'm being upfront and transparent, but that's because I'm attempting to clarify the situation based on what I've read and help navigate this relationship that appears to cause quite a bit of tension and worry for him along with all the positive feelings and experiences.

 

Having a lot of experience in relationships with younger men has drawbacks as well, especially if some did not end well.

[BaronArtz]

@Unicorn - I am delighted to read you found someone to love. I am sorry to be the Cassandra of Bad News but here is what will happen:

 

this will not last

 

Relationships like these never last. Do you really believe you are unique, of sorts? My advice is, enjoy it while you are going through the honeymoon phase. Spend an amount of money on him, but not more than you are comfortable with. Do not go in debt for him. And by all means, if you do decide to marry, DO get that prenup and protect your assets.

 

I truly wish you the best of luck.

Edited January 4, 2019 by BaronArtz

[+ Eric Hassan]

I'm having feelings I've never felt before, which has made it difficult for me to think clearly. To lay it all out, I've been living with a man in his mid 20's for the last 9 months (since March), and I'm in my mid 50's. We met on Seeking Arrangements, and I'm helping him get a college degree. He's from South America on a student visa, valid for another 2-3 years (2021 if I'm recalling correctly). A little over a week ago, after his finals (he's a straight A student, at least for the time he's been with me), we flew to Puerto Vallarta, and at the end of a week, he flew back home for the holidays and I'm back in the States. We're meeting again a few days into the New Year in San Juan, PR, where we'll be taking a 12-day Caribbean cruise before his Spring term starts. My affection for him has grown tremendously during our time together, and he says his have as well. He's told me that he wants to spend the rest of his life with me, and we've even talked of marriage.

Part of what's confusing me is that during these 9 months, he's been going to the gym daily and becoming really ripped. Part of me almost wished he didn't, because he doesn't need to be so handsome, and he's turned into a near-perfect specimen. I don't understand why I've felt so head-over-heels in love with him. Is it truly because my love for him as a person has grown? Or is it his new physique? When we were first together, I often tried to sneak in a Levitra or Cialis if I thought we were going to have sex in order to make things easier, but now I feel absolutely no need for any such assistance, and the sex has been leaving me in a trance that I imagine heroin addicts must get when they shoot up. In the two days since we were apart, I couldn't even jack off to my very extensive porn collection (I tried), and had to look at my pictures of him.

In the past I've complimented him on both his intelligence and looks, saying things like "You're such a wonderful combination of brains and beauty!". Early in our trip, though, he was in his swimsuit on our ocean-view balcony and I said "Wow, you're really beautiful!" and he responded somewhat unhappy, however, stating "Unicorn, I don't appreciate your objectifying me!". What do you think? Were my comments too objectifying and one-dimensional? Is this not a nice or appropriate thing to say to a man you love?

 

I haven't read all the responses, so I might be repeating someone else, but here goes:

 

If this is someone you are even remotely considering marrying, I would hope you would be able to have "difficult" conversations with him. I think it's helpful that you have us to come and bounce ideas off of, get some feedback, etc. but if you've got all these concerns and questions and worries, it's not us that can help you.

 

Also, give the guy a break. Maybe he was in a bad mood or thinking about something else when you complimented him. Sometimes what one day might feel OK can feel not so OK the next.

 

Lastly, this might just be lust. It might be new relationship energy. It might be true love. You can call it whatever you want, but do yourself the hugest favor you can and try to enjoy as much of it as you possibly can!

[+ WilliamM]

@Unicorn I remember your posts here about previous relationships (as I mentioned above). The obvious response: I am glad you are so happy, but, given the age difference, some day he will have to take care of you, regardless of your detailed medical planning for the future. Will your lawyer be greatly involved also?

[Guest]

Oh, of course I wouldn't marry without a good prenup. As I've told him, I have a very good long-term care insurance. If I get Alzheimer's or a stroke or something like that, I don't want him tied down. I want to keep him happy until my last breath. My first LTR (the 13.5 year one, he was 21 and I was 39 when we met) asked me to marry him multiple times, even after he became a US citizen, but I never felt as strongly about him as I do about my current man. My current man is more affectionate and loving (hopefully it's not acting...).

[Guest]

I know this is off topic but does seeking arrangements require you be worth 7 or 8 figures? Seems like in order to be successful on the site it’s requires a HNW and it’s not really for people of more modest means. Is that correct or am I off the mark?

I think it's more about income and other assets (such as perhaps personality, intelligence, and looks?) than net worth. Can you make your man happy? That's the question. Certainly no requirements for net worth on the site.

[MscleLovr]

I know this is off topic but does seeking arrangements require you be worth 7 or 8 figures? Seems like in order to be successful on the site it’s requires a HNW and it’s not really for people of more modest means. Is that correct or am I off the mark?

 

There’s no specific requirement, @Reisr30, as @Unicorn states above. But I disagree with his views. I think the purpose of the website is clear: it enables younger and older men to meet.

 

If you are an older man seeking a younger companion, you better have plenty of disposable income (and/or a high net worth) if you are going to take numerous candidates on dinner-dates etc and pay for all the related expenses. Of course, it will boost your attractiveness to younger men if, as @Unicorn suggests, you dress well and are in good physical shape as well as being intelligent and entertaining.

 

Similarly a younger man seeking to be looked after by an older man had better be handsome and have an athletic or defined body. In addition, he should be charming and agreeable as well as interesting if he expects a date to develop into a relationship where he is cared for over the long-term.

[Guest]

There’s no specific requirement, @Reisr30, as @Unicorn states above. But I disagree with his views. I think the purpose of the website is clear: it enables younger and older men to meet.

I'm not sure I understand why you think I disagree that it functions to help older and younger men to meet, with financial benefits. It has some similarities with houseboy.com, but with some differences (although many men advertise on both). Some men on HB specifically state that they are not interested in any intimate activity--I'd guess they expect free room & board in exchange for household duties or something. Also, some on SA are not interested in a live-in arrangement, and are simply looking for cash in exchange for intimate contact (a bit like an escort, but without calling themselves escorts). You never know what kind of arrangement a man on SA wants (which can be fluid and depend on the interaction). I once hired a very handsome man and paid only $100 for an intimate session. He was just looking for extra cash with men with whom he could feel comfortable. Another dude I met on SA expected to be paid just for the privilege of being near him. Not something I was interested in!

Of course, sometimes escorts will respond to an offer for a long-term intimate relationship. I first met my 13.5-year relationship on a quick hire. I asked him if he'd like to settle with me and not worry about his next hires, and he said yes. Similarly, shortly before I met my current beau, I hired an escort who said he'd move in with me if things didn't work out with the man I was about to meet. As it so happened, things did work out--quite well, in fact.

[Jomo]

i'm curious. Do you know if he is on the plane to Puerto Rico?

[Guest]

As a matter of fact, we just texted. I'm at the airline lounge in Miami, and he's at the Priority Pass lounge in Panama City.

[+ WilliamM]

Oh, of course I wouldn't marry without a good prenup. As I've told him, I have a very good long-term care insurance. If I get Alzheimer's or a stroke or something like that, I don't want him tied down. I want to keep him happy until my last breath. My first LTR (the 13.5 year one, he was 21 and I was 39 when we met) asked me to marry him multiple times, even after he became a US citizen, but I never felt as strongly about him as I do about my current man. My current man is more affectionate and loving (hopefully it's not acting...).

 

Aren't you very concerned after knowing this man since March, you quite correctly add, "hopefully he is not acting."

[Guest]

Aren't you very concerned after knowing this man since March, you quite correctly add, "hopefully he is not acting."

No, not very. But we're having a wonderful time in San Juan. I suppose it should be normal when one has something so good, that one might be afraid of losing it...