Seinfeld Sidekick Kramer Flames Out

[Luv2play]

Why is it when Mel Gibson spews an anti-semitic diatribe, it doesn't take long for this board to light up with comments condemning his behaviour but when the Jewish actor who portrayed Kramer in Seinfeld spews his hatred for blacks, silence all round? Just wondering. :o

[Rick Munroe]

Didn't you know this was an all-Jewish website?!

 

Seriously, though, I think there's a difference between a powerful movie star and producer of Passion of the Christ saying Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world, and a washed-up sitcom actor who can't handle hecklers. I think the reason there was more of a reaction here was that Mel Gibson was a beloved star and few people even know Michael Richards' name (I didn't, and it seems like you don't either, since you never mentioned it). When I watch the clip of Richards on TMZ, yes it's awful, but it seems like he's unsuccessfully trying to be "edgy," like Lenny Bruce or George Carlin, and using "bad" words. It's horribly unfunny and uncomfortable to watch, but I just see it as a really bad comic lashing out at hecklers and being racist while doing it.

 

Another question you might want to ask is why so few post responses here to gay-related threads about gay marriage, Coming Out Day, etc. I find that disinterest more interesting... :o

[+ Lucky]

I have been thinking a lot about Kramer's rant as it is going to make any civilized debate about race relations in this country a little more difficult. Political correctness is one thing, but as the Gibson and Richards stories indicate, many harbor views that should be threshed out in an attempt to resolve conflicts before they worsen. (The same thing with Muslims...don't most people think they should be profiled at airports? (Just asking...!)

 

Bill Cosby's thoughts might be a starting point to discuss feelings about black people. Living where I do, there is a big separation between Mexicans and whites, even in the gay community. What's that all about? Money and power? Or just prejudice? Do we want Mexicans to be our neighbors or just mow our grass? Do Mexicans want to be Americans or are they just waiting for a majority so they can re-join the motherland? (:-) )

 

 

I don't know the answers to any of these questions.

[+ deej]

The thing that most interested me about the Richards case was the effect of "man on the street" video. If that video hadn't made its way to TMZ, none of us would have even heard about this incident. Instead it's national headline news, the hecklers got interviewed by Matt Lauer on the Today show, and Gloria Alred has another high-profile case. Because of that video, he's tried and convicted in the court of public opinion.

 

There's no fucking way Richards can recover from this, and that's a shame. I've been to comedy shows that got a lot rougher when there was a determined heckler. (And I suspect you have too.) None of us was in the room, yet we've already condemned him.

 

I agree with you that it was uncomfortable and unfunny. It looked like he didn't know how to handle the situation and went the absolute worst way he possibly could have gone.

 

I'll bet he wouldn't do it again, but I'll also bet he'll never get that chance. :-(

 

Babs can get away with telling an audience member to STFU because she's Babs, and what does it matter if she never works again? Mel Gibson can get away with "sugar tits" because he makes money for the studios.

 

Kramer? He's toast. Because of a video made on a cell phone and shown out of context on national TV.

[Lankypeters]

>Didn't you know this was an all-Jewish website?!

>

>Seriously, though, I think there's a difference between a

>powerful movie star and producer of Passion of the Christ

>saying Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world, and

>a washed-up sitcom actor who can't handle hecklers. I think

>the reason there was more of a reaction here was that Mel

>Gibson was a beloved star and few people even know Michael

>Richards' name (I didn't, and it seems like you don't either,

>since you never mentioned it). When I watch the clip of

>Richards on TMZ, yes it's awful, but it seems like he's

>unsuccessfully trying to be "edgy," like Lenny Bruce or George

>Carlin, and using "bad" words. It's horribly unfunny and

>uncomfortable to watch, but I just see it as a really bad

>comic lashing out at hecklers and being racist while doing it.

>

>

>Another question you might want to ask is why so few post

>responses here to gay-related threads about gay marriage,

>Coming Out Day, etc. I find that disinterest more

>interesting... :o

 

 

Lankypeters

[Lankypeters]

>Didn't you know this was an all-Jewish website?!

>

>Seriously, though, I think there's a difference between a

>powerful movie star and producer of Passion of the Christ

>saying Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world, and

>a washed-up sitcom actor who can't handle hecklers. I think

>the reason there was more of a reaction here was that Mel

>Gibson was a beloved star and few people even know Michael

>Richards' name (I didn't, and it seems like you don't either,

>since you never mentioned it). When I watch the clip of

>Richards on TMZ, yes it's awful, but it seems like he's

>unsuccessfully trying to be "edgy," like Lenny Bruce or George

>Carlin, and using "bad" words. It's horribly unfunny and

>uncomfortable to watch, but I just see it as a really bad

>comic lashing out at hecklers and being racist while doing it.

>

>

>Another question you might want to ask is why so few post

>responses here to gay-related threads about gay marriage,

>Coming Out Day, etc. I find that disinterest more

>interesting...

 

 

A keen, articulate response, Mr. M.

 

Lankypeters

[Rick Munroe]

>A keen, articulate response, Mr. M.

 

Thanks; I have my brief moments.

[Rick Munroe]

>(The same thing with

>Muslims...don't most people think they should be profiled at

>airports?

 

If that's true, then all white men should be profiled and put on lists (does Timothy McVeigh ring a bell?). Racial profiling is un-American and counterproductive.

[Guest zipperzone]

>I'll bet he wouldn't do it again, but I'll also bet he'll

>never get that chance. :-(

 

Now that's the truth.

 

>Babs can get away with telling an audience member to STFU

>because she's Babs, and what does it matter if she never works

>again?

 

There is no way you can compare Bab's STFU with "Kramer's" rant. Babs was almost cute - Richards was downright frightening.

 

Mel Gibson can get away with "sugar tits" because he

>makes money for the studios.

 

That remains to be seen. The results are not in yet. I'd bet his drawing power is severly curtailed. Time will tell.

>

>Kramer? He's toast. Because of a video made on a cell phone

>and shown out of context on national TV.

 

How can you say it was out of context. Do you think if we were shown the lead up to it, it would make it any better? I DON'T THINK SO!

[Guest zipperzone]

>If that's true, then all white men should be profiled and put

>on lists (does Timothy McVeigh ring a bell?). Racial

>profiling is un-American and counterproductive.

 

Rick - I can't agree with you here. If 99% of all crimes were done by men with green hair, would you sit next to one in the subway?

 

Almost 100% of terrorist attacks have been from one race/religion. It's unfortunate but it's just good sense to single them out for closer scrutiny.

 

As for un-American - the most un-American thing I can think of right now happens to be living in the White House.

[Guest msclonly]

I think he was under the influence of something and it took over!

 

The guys trying to make a case with Alred are poor actors looking to make a buck at a comedy show! Of course, if the circumstances were reversed, they would be laughing.

[+ deej]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

[+ deej]

>Almost 100% of terrorist attacks have been from one

>race/religion.

 

What's your source?

 

For starters, race does not equal religion.

 

If you're going to make statements like this, you need to come up with irrefutable numbers that back you up. Links will do.

 

BUT PLEASE don't spin this thread down the political road. I'd hate to see another potentially valuable social discussion moved because we can't separate the issues from the politicians.

[+ purplekow]

>>A keen, articulate response, Mr. M.

>

>Thanks; I have my brief moments.

 

 

While you have your brief moments, most of us prefer your without brief moments.

[Luv2play]

>Didn't you know this was an all-Jewish website?!

>

LOL. I was starting to think I was the only goyim. We're so sensitive! But seriously, the only reason I posted this subject was that I had watched a CBC program yesterday afternoon discussing this incident and the strongest point made by one of the panelists was that we all harbour some degree of bigotry in our subconscious. Many of us will have bigoted thoughts in reaction to a certain provoking situation. The difference is that most of us have been socialized to suppress these thoughts. I know I do and I think of myself as an enlightened person. But I recoil when I hear the "N" word or an epithet hurled at any minority. And yet sometimes in my mind I will say, "Oh well there's a typical..."

 

>Seriously, though, I think there's a difference between a

>powerful movie star and producer of Passion of the Christ

>saying Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world, and

>a washed-up sitcom actor who can't handle hecklers. I think

>the reason there was more of a reaction here was that Mel

>Gibson was a beloved star and few people even know Michael

>Richards' name (I didn't, and it seems like you don't either,

>since you never mentioned it).

 

You're right that I couldn't remember Richard's name, I could only remember his first name being Michael. The thing about him is that people like me can only remember Seinfeld's name and the other three cast members only by face. But I disagree that the Seinfeld franchise is not a powerful one and Richards is closely associated with that. That is why Jerry Seinfeld went into immediate damage control on the Letterman show. Apparently he pulls in $100 million a year in syndication and DVD sales and that ain't no chump change. He has a vested interest to protect and you would think Richards does too.

 

Interestingly, Richards started his diatribe by saying he was a rich guy and he didn't need to take any guff from the hecklers. When that didn't work, he switched to the racial thing.

[Houston Bonfires]

This uproar over Michael Richards sickens me. Where has the hue and cry been concerning the vile, racist, sexist and hateful words and actions of "mainstream" black musicians and comedians? I just assumed when "THEY" took hatred to a new level anything became fair game.

Also, when do hecklers attempting to prevent an entertainer from doing a job for gainful employment become the sympathetic figure in a case such as this.

Political correctness can kiss my ass.

 

HB

[RockHard]

Daddy's mantra for the Lounge, "NO Politics, NO Religion, NO War," could help explain why there's hesitation among members to bring up sensitive subjects, like race and religion, here. War has a loose trigger in what is intended to be relaxing territory. Then there's the issue of rising anti-semitism which makes the climate of discussion wrought with anxiety.

 

I have nothing to say about comparing Richards to Gibson because comparing the two is silly nonsense. Richards has no Hollywood power.

 

All I care to add is:

1. Richards hit his self-destruct button and it's always painful (for me) to watch a talent go down.

2. The idea the that two (apparently obnoxious) hecklers can get away with playing the victim card speaks loudly about our ridiculously litigious (and stupid) society.

3. Gloria Allred never met a car crash that didn't smell of green. Her name should read Gloria AllGreen. She's an ugly opportunist who sensationalizes justice and I wouldn't like her any better if she were a hot gay man (or Brad Pitt, as Luv2play would say it). She personifies what is wrong with lawyers. And she's not particularly endearing at social events. (But a certain escort would prefer I not mention the social events since he thinks such juicy tidbits are irrelevant to the board discussion.) :-)

[Guest icon513]

Michael Richards is NOT Jewish:

 

http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=16838

[Rick Munroe]

>Almost 100% of terrorist attacks have been from one

>race/religion. It's unfortunate but it's just good sense to

>single them out for closer scrutiny.

 

Hey, let's go further and just round up all them A-rab A-holes and put 'em in concentration camps like we did with the Nips in WWII (The Big One)!

 

http://mrgrumman.home.comcast.net/ArchieBunkerJeez.JPG

[RockHard]

According to Timothy Garton Ash, a favorite writer, Eurabia can be broken down into seven "elementary distinctions": Islam, Muslims, Islamists, Arabs, immigrants, darker-skinned people, or terrorists. Good luck rounding up or profiling that bunch.

 

At least the Jewish religion has no history of proselytizing.

[RockHard]

RE: Seinfeld Sidekick Kramer is NOT Jewish!

 

Sure makes the OP look a little silly. Or, at least, poorly informed.

[Luv2play]

RE: Seinfeld Sidekick Kramer is NOT Jewish!

 

There's a difference between "poorly informed" and "misinformed". It was widely reported for over half a week that Richards was Jewish and he said nothing publicly to refute it, although he had ample opportunity.

 

Now one report says he was born with no religion. Well, I suppose. His ancestors are an unknown, however, beyond his mother, nothing is reported. So is he Jewish or not? I won't take it on one person's say-so. And in any event, everyone assumed he was until now so I don't see how the OP was "silly", as you put it. On the other hand, I could hardly say otherwise since I was the originator of the OP.

[Guest zipperzone]

RE: Seinfeld Sidekick Kramer is NOT Jewish!

 

>Now one report says he was born with no religion.

 

I believe that we are all born without religion. Just because my parents were of one religion does not automatically make me the same. Before that can be said I have to be old enough to make a choice.

[Guest zipperzone]

>We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

I can live with that. Isn't the 1st time, probably won't be the last.

[Guest zipperzone]

>What's your source?

 

Deej - I really don't have a source but am making my statement from personal observation. I know nothing is ever absolute, but ask yourself this, how many times in the past 5 years have you read a newspaper report, or a TV report about a terrorist? Quite a number of times would be my guess. And how often was the terrorist's name, Johnston, Wakefield, Sutton, Bartlett or even anything you can pronounce?

 

>For starters, race does not equal religion.

 

Not always - but often (usually?)

 

>BUT PLEASE don't spin this thread down the political road. I'd

>hate to see another potentially valuable social discussion

>moved because we can't separate the issues from the

>politicians.

 

Thats the province of our overly sensitive moderators - don't blame me. They far too often leap to move threads to the political forum where far fewer readers will see them.