TallMuscl37

Unfortunately, I differ on sides here and don’t share the other’s perspective: it sounds like both of you were hot headed, and regrettably, you came off like I just mentioned in another thread the other day. I can elaborate on each point: #1: your 1st text comes off a bit badgering, and you’re asking 3 questions in one text (the first text at that), without volunteering any info about yourself. That’s the 1st mistake. #2: You didn’t address the escort by name. That immediately comes off a bit disconnected. You don’t include your name either, just a profile screenname. #3: Asking if someone barebacks in a 1st message shows off the bat disrespectful, and my experience is that many clients who start that way end up being just that. There’s been clients who admit on the forum they’ll ask escorts that, not because they want bareback, but to “suss” out if they play safe. #4: Don’t ask an escort how long they are in town. People often ask me that when I’m traveling, and I just say: when are YOU looking for? If the escort can’t make it, they’ll let you know. Don’t think ahead of the pace of the conversation. There’s been many times I’ve stayed in a city an extra day or 2 longer than planned for a confirmed client. I wasn’t in a rush to leave town, and I have flexible means of travel. #5: By the time you say sigh, you’ve just disrespected the escort again. Setting up a visit with an escort isn’t the time to give off sarcastic vibes. #6: Your last message resorted to being a bully and you stormed off like a petulant child. Block you? What’s with clients thinking escorts need permission to block them? Again, you called the escort first, not the other way around! What would have been better is to apologize, and simply offer a time and day that would work. You came to him 1st, with a need. You have to yield his procedures or how he wishes to arrange appointments. Even if you had to wait a few minutes and think about it. To approach him with a bossy attitude was absolutely uncalled for. That was your 6th mistake. However, I will say: thanks for posting this. It shows you’re willing to learn, from your mistakes. I think if more people would discuss these things, it would make for a better escort/client relationship. In your favor, the escort didn’t really do a whole lot either to bridge the conversation gap. One word responses and curbing questions completely don’t really drive things in the right direction. However, you were the kindling to his fire, and instead of creating love…y’all created this:

Fair enough. I know you don’t want to “Whoopi” yourself into that ”viewpoint” 😆 Like the gay guys on hookup apps always say: “it’s not about race, it’s about preference 🧐 ” Now…if only there was that same energy when it came down to issues more specified with the gay sex work society.

Do you guys mind elaborating on “unpredictable” and perhaps giving others a perspective? Though I can understand the reasoning for having it part time, I think it can still work out full time if one reserves the time to make it be so. At the same time, not every market will allow that to be the case. I know I can’t do it full time in the city I’m in, but when I combine it with a consistent travel schedule…it can quickly suppress the routine of a full time job. I tried doing this and doing a part time job at the same time, it didn’t work for me. I wanted to travel for a few days, they told me if I did, I couldn’t come back. I personally feel sex work (using the phrase across multiple outlets) is a full time job, provided you’re in the right market and have the drive. If I had a full time job doing this, I don’t see how I could want to take clients at the unpredictable hours they sometimes ask for. I’d be tired from working all day… At the same time, having something going on during the lulls of the business throughout the day seems reasonable. The downside: I have noticed a select mentality of “clients” out there, who seem to feel less responsible about following thru, when they “tell themselves” we’re just guys hanging around the sites for entertainment. As if, we all have normal jobs somewhere in outer space…and just posting for shits and giggles and a little bit of “fun” money. I occasionally have to drop the reality bomb on some, and let them know. Treat me with the same respect you’d want to be treated if you were expecting to get paid.

Hmm, possibly. But to me it still seems like racism. People may want to think it isn’t, but it often is. Especially in the Middle America market. It’s also usually the White potential clients contacting with the game playing and BS (despite also making up a majority of the client base). Not to mention, when one of my White friends came to Kansas City last year, he had a decent schedule of clients. Meanwhile it was pretty slow on my schedule. However, it could have just been his new guy novelty. But aside from a few occasional locals and visitors who come to the area, that's general how it's been. Even today I had to deal with someone unreasonable. He asked for 30 minute session, then says the rate too much (which is actually something I don't even offer, but in trying to accommodate). Despite the compromise, still managed to be a complete flake but I didn't take much time entertaining. Regardless... It's annoying. Why the fuck these people contact intending to be rude and disrespectful, and play games, I have no idea. And majority of them are White. So, I have a hard time believing it's not racism. It's racism because they don't think I deserve to be paid, or paid fairly enough for my time and effort. Then they try to get free explicit chat time, when they knowingly have 0 intent to go thru with meeting for an appointment. It may be more due to an aversion to gay sexuality/acceptance (this area has a lot of closet cases), or aversion to providers (there seems to be a lot of “sex work” haters here, and in all of the state, only St. Louis and Kansas City has any sizable market. Everywhere else in the state is dead). But…I still don’t rule out micro aggression. It’s their attitude. Their demeanor. The original post was “White guys” instead of “All-American”, but I didn’t want to make like I’m singling out on 1 subject versus the bigger picture. That said, in 2022 it seems like most every American has some form of tattoos or piercings.

Hmm, possibly. But to me it still seems like racism. People may want to think it isn’t, but it often is. Especially in the Middle America market. It’s also usually the White potential clients contacting with the game playing and BS (despite also making up a majority of the client base). Not to mention, when one of my White friends came to Kansas City last year, he had a decent schedule of clients. Meanwhile it was pretty slow on my schedule. However, it could have just been his new guy novelty. But aside from a few occasional locals and visitors who come to the area, that's general how it's been. Even today I had to deal with someone unreasonable. He asked for 30 minute session, then says the rate too much (which is actually something I don't even offer, but in trying to accommodate). Despite the compromise, still managed to be a complete flake but I didn't take much time entertaining. Regardless... It's annoying. Why the fuck these people contact intending to be rude and disrespectful, and play games, I have no idea. And majority of them are White. So, I have a hard time believing it's not racism. It's racism because they don't think I deserve to be paid, or paid fairly enough for my time and effort. Then they try to get free explicit chat time, when they knowingly have 0 intent to go thru with meeting for an appointment. It may be more due to an aversion to gay sexuality/acceptance (this area has a lot of closet cases), or aversion to providers (there seems to be a lot of “sex work” haters here, and in all of the state, only St. Louis and Kansas City has any sizable market. Everywhere else in the state is dead). But…I still don’t rule out micro aggression. It’s their attitude. Their demeanor.

That is true…Considering the lockdowns happened in March-May 2020, it was a perfect season for many to utilize the ole high school track. I was actually fine because it gave me an excuse to not workout and focus only on jogging the track lol. But: to some degree, having hotel gyms closed and regular gyms/personal trainers out did affect things for many. Even though the small towns in Missouri only closed for a measly 2 weeks (as if it was just a bad case of stomach flu and would go away that quickly 🙄 I realize some states did endure longer closings. Or, it was mask only exercising. I had to do that in Santa Fe last year: 7,000 ft elevation and trying to workout with a mask on: No fun.

Exactly. Notice how he said, “I didn’t schedule anything or make you miss another appointment”. As if, it’s okay to talk to someone that way AND not even show up. Just like you said, annoying and disrespectful. First of all, that’s showing 0 respect for the provider considering I could be reading that message in a position where it’s not appropriate by all means. Of course I never engaged or agreed, I just kept it right to the point. And while I’m on the topic: the bareback/breeding seeking clients are the #1 timewasters out there! I’m almost about to just block any of them who approach me asking for that. If he didn’t show up back in July, why would I expect him to show up now. That said: I don’t mind providing the service to clients, who are throughly “prepared”. I just got tested for everything and was negative. However, its not generally a service I agree to before meeting. If I sense the client isn’t hygienic, I won’t do it. This type of stuff goes on all week in my market. One thing I miss about RentBoy, it used to attract a bit more respectful clients. Idk why these days RentMen just attracts so much game players nowadays. Idk if it’s because the disappearance of Craigslist and backpage have affected the ecosystem or what. Like I say, it used to be the same guys on Rentboy in the smaller markets. Now, everytime I look around there’s a new guy popping up on the scene (and disappearing just as fast)

I live in Missouri. Remind you. Ask me if it gets any less diverse than this. The whole state is one big supremacy group, including the gay bars 🤦🏽‍♂️ . I’m pretty certain I’ve unknowingly fucked with a few White Supremacy guys before…I don’t mind at all 😆 long as he don’t try to kill me, let me fuck that tatted daddy ass 😋

When I used the word “invest” I wasn't necessarily talking about the business world definition of it. I was using that more to relate to things that someone could do (invest) if they feel they need to suggest I can be doing something better. Okay? It’s easy to tell someone an opinion but very few actually want to (invest) their own money into it. And just to be clear, I wasn’t looking or expecting that from someone. I’ve been doing it myself all along. The whole scenario is merely hypothetical. That said: some people have done that. One friend sold me a vehicle for an amazing price, and lent me an air bnb for a day when he checked out early. Others have done either regular or one off things that have made a difference. Of course: I’ve helped in return as well. Being “kept”: that’s something else. and not something I look for. I’ve seen guys who are actually “kept”. That’s not me.

I’m getting ready to do just that…I’m loading up and driving to the Pacific Northwest next week. If I find a place, great. Tired of this shit. I deserve so much better than the rude guys I been dealing with in the Midwest. And to quote @sniper again: it’s easy to be on the sidelines and make it seem like I’m the only person bothered. But when I constantly deal with repetitious idiots so much, it’s hard not to be. For example: this idiot has been contacting me on and off since July last year, and still can’t get around to a booking: Completely disrespectful, and no consideration for my time. It may not be directly related to racism per say, but it’s still a racist mentality in some ways when someone thinks they’re more important, just because maybe they’ve been conditioned to feel that way. If he thinks blocking him is the most I would do, he got another thing coming. I actually added him to the shit pile of timewasters on Mr. Number 😆

Curious: what area have gyms been closed for 2 years? In many areas in the Midwest they closed for like 2 weeks back in 2020. Pretty much all hotel gyms I’ve gone to are back up and running. That said there’s a lot more questions about am I vaccinated. I just got another dose 💉 last week…even though I and a few others I know were ill towards end of last year. I should also mention; Covid seems to be the latest fashionable excuse at times to flake on a booking. I only say because a client admitted that to me couple weeks ago. Last minute jitters. But we ultimately linked up.

Right on 👍🏾 That’s why I say: if someone doesn’t think I’m doing enough, assist with the 90%. If they can do that, then they’ll know…

I concur. To be clear, I was merely discussing people’s objectives as a whole. Not so much on your suggestions. But, having an extra leg in the industry is a good thing. But you say “sex work” and “other” work. Isn’t having a fan’s site also sex work? (Even if you’re just doing solo jerk off vids) What my whole sermon 🎤 above was referring to, was those who seem to push completely alternative work from the biz…instead of helping contribute to the business we’re already in. Like, instead of telling an escort to get another job: how about make a video with them and help increase their ratings (one of my clients did that for me, it was a simple 2 minute hand job, but it was a good demonstration of my 🌋 load 😆 But as it sounds, it seems like you are exclusively a sec worker, or only do sex work related activities, correct?

I edited that out (I hate bragging, especially in such an up and down industry lol), but I was referring to just the amount in deposits/payments on the app. But to further answer your question, as it relates to the other thread circulating: maybe $1,200 is all someone may make a month off escorting. There shouldn’t be any shame in that if they were: $1.200 month is a nice apartment in many cities (of course IF they had an extra side job to pay for everything else and only used it for that). However, if you take $1,200 and divide by either $150, 200, 250 or $300…that’s not out of the question. And like I said before: there’s times I’m in my home market and may only get 1 or 2 clients a week. If I didn’t go anywhere else, $1,200 a month would be very realistic. And that’s lucky considering the fallout. If I had a regular 9-5 job, I’d likely miss ALL the clients in some markets in a month. Which would essentially make being an escort pointless. The Midwest is a very “late morning/afternoon before 5” market. If you can’t catch em by then, don’t expect to get anything else at night.

Well, I get what you’re saying. But I’ve already found the strategy to make the change: and that’s to exit the market. You may say “bothered than most” (and according to whom?), but the listings speak for themselves. As it relates to the last question I answered, If you look at listings in a particular area and there doesn’t seem to be many, often times that can either be an opportunity or pending disaster. You won’t really know unless you’re an escort posting and actively working “on foot” in that market’ to really experience it. And my experience in some markets has shown that it’s better to be in a place where I can be appreciated as a Black provider, versus sitting around some bum ass town dealing with guys who like do stupid shit like talk about the other big black dicks they can get for $100/150….or worse yet, for free. Fuck you (not you, them lol). It may not change, and I get that. But I know where to go and what to do to change it. Like I’ve touted before: I ask all my clients for deposits mainly for hosting/advanced bookings. I started that because I got tired of booking hotels, or sitting around at home expecting some muppet to show and they don’t. Some have criticized for that. But it’s been working fine for me, the ones who don’t…that just weeds out the ones most likely to flake anyway. Don’t be lead astray. Just because I talk about something doesn’t mean I’m not doing anything about it. I’m just talking about the way it is. If it’s uncomfortable for some, sorry.

I guess it just depends on who you ask. Kansas City and St. Louis are about the only real Black populations here. However, many of the GBMs seem to aspire to move elsewhere, out of state. I was talking to one guy and things were going okay but sure nuff, he's moving to Houston 😒 Otherwise, the gay scene in both cities seems very much like a White social club. Especially in Kansas City. Many the gay White guys love it here, but I've spoken to some who can't wait to leave also. Dating here is also pointless, I find the guys here don't even actually date. It's all hookups and maybe...something will come out of it. I decided officially I'm done dating in Missouri. That extends even to meeting anyone for free sex, PERIOD. The type of man I envision for dating, does not exist here. That's also not to insinuate I don't enjoy White guy's company or only want to be around diverse backgrounds...but in Missouri THEY only want White guy's company and aren't open to diverse backgrounds. I've met countless amounts of dudes here, and they seem cool on grindr and after 2 a.m., but all of em are so fake and phony and shit...I'm done. I have clients who take care of majority of the sex stuff, but as I've said here: that is not always the case either. Most of my client hits in the area come from business travelers, many of the locals are flakes and often end up blacklisted before the 1st meet or 2. It's tragic. Trying to make this Spring, my exit... That IS a lot of moving parts lol. We're talking about 6 people, and only 3 people in the mix. That's why (not discussing you specifically)... married clients can sometimes unintentionally be a pain in the ass to do biz with. Even though for some or many, it makes up a majority of our client base, most can't really "commit" or plan things properly. I end up getting annoyed and done with it. Like one guy, we met once but ever since he's tried to squeeze me in the middle of the afternoon with no notice. And he's like, "I have to meet before xx:xx time". I'm like, what do people think? You can't just pop up out the blue to meet with me having no idea of it happening. Where is the common sense and courtesy anymore?? Especially when they want me to furnish the host location. They wouldn't want me popping up on their doorstep with 2 hours notice, why should it be any different?

Your stance is correct, but rather abstract. Can't tell whether you were quoting what I was saying, or just saying in general. I certainly wasn't implying that guys should, would or only do sex work out of desperation. I'm just saying, there's an unspoken habit of people looking DOWN on guys who SOLELY do sex work for a living. I say that because I used to know a friend (now sadly deceased) who had a habit, of whenever I went thru a rough patch in the biz, first thing that would come up is suggesting to do some alternative work (which never came with any viable suggestions). But, never did this person or some others actually take the time to: Take professional photos of me Show me how to make a website Write a review for me as a "client" Invest in me a professional wardrobe Invest me a car/place to live to better serve clients Point to/fund a visit to a city where I can do better at Actually have another job to offer me At the end of the day: people (specifically, gays both connected and not connected to the business) talk a lot of fucking shit. Everybody has a suggestion, but half the time, non are actually doing shit. It took me awhile to get to a point where I was like: if you can't be a supportive, contributing friend...and not just monetarily: I'm not interested. People always want to try and force their opinions and way of living on others. All of that stuff above I mentioned, I figured out all of those on my own and thru other sources. But if I woulda sat around listening to some guy telling me, "do this and do that while you're escorting" I'd of never reached my full potential and gotten to see the country and make all sorts of opportunities. I may not be doing exactly what someone else's standard of biz is, but maybe I don't want to settle that for myself. And most likely, they don't have it perfect either. They just present on the outside that it's all good...in reality if they could take my lifestyle, they'd do it in a heartbeat. And if not, so be it. I've seen life thru many windows to know what I do and don't want. I see the "happily" partnered gay couple with the jobs, house and the dogs, but then I have my own experiences of that not being so pleasant...and also not what it's cracked up to be. I don't want or need a man controlling my every step and move and not being able to handle a joke, or one who always think it's okay to make stupid, bitchy jabs (Like some shitty guys in relationships do) to wear at my self esteem. Likewise, I don't care for a job that I have to commit to everyday, no matter how part time it is. If I wanted one, I'd get one when I feel like it. But as you suggested, I do have like 2 additional escort evolved stuff which does take the pressure off "sex" work. There's a escort guy in Kansas City who has a job, and a side air bnb business. And he's like, you wanna work at the gym I'm at as a trainer? And even though I thanked him for the offer and opportunity, no. I don't want to do that because I'm not trying to do MORE stuff to tie me down in a city that I'm trying to move on from. Likewise, as I often say: it's bad assumption that clients hire out of desperation. That said: everyone's choices are different. If someone feels they need to do this or that in addition...by all means. But there should be nothing seen wrong with relying on the industry if one so chooses to. Instead of suggesting a person do something else, that energy can go towards helping the industry change and become better.

That’s a happy ending (pun intended). However, it’s important for others to understand that one person’s reasons for escorting may differ from another. Some may be in it to make extra money and play, whereas others may have more interest invested in it. Not saying you are, but I think some people view escorts who are just “doing this for fun and extra money” on a higher pedestal than those who are relying on it for their day to day/month to month expenses. As if, they’ve “arrived” and are above those who are having to essentially have it as their main or sole source of income. There’s nothing wrong with that either, right? I bring that up because: clients on the forum often mention being flaked on by an escort sometimes. Well: if a guy is only doing it for extra money or fun, maybe it’s a bit more convenient to flake out if they feel like it. If you’re working another job, just got a paycheck and feeling a little tired +there’s a hotter guy who wants to hookup: that’s a no brainer: flake on the client. Whereas if someone who’s invested and taking it seriously, they may (as in my case) be more trying to leave themselves available for a booking. Not saying that a person who has other sources won’t take it seriously, but it probably lessens the chances. And if the person in question is 50s and has a home paid off, the question as it relates to the topic would be: was it from escorting or something else? Because if it’s from something else, I’m not sure it would fully cover the topic at hand. Anybody can do other stuff and escort on the side once a week. That’s not going to give much solace to a guy who’s trying to revitalize a tanking 🚢 client base…

Yeah it’s crazy. So many attractive, “horny” athletic guys are into that lifestyle. It can be hard to avoid..

With that said, there may even be connects out of Las Vegas, Reno, San Diego or Phoenix also. Rental car rates have been so crazy lately that, I decided it would be better to get a 2nd vehicle. Hell, don't forget https://www.amtrak.com/home either. I did Amtrak twice last year, and as long you're not going cross-country: business class can be so comfortable. You aren't constrained on bags and have ample room to sit and walk.

For anyone not familiar with LA traffic, that's just driving at night with NO traffic. Plan on it taking 3.5-4 hours... LA, Chicago, Atlanta: add 2 hours to anything over 100 miles lol.

Thanks for your perspective and willingness to be open. If the avatar is your pic, it’s their loss because I’m mmm mmm loving the view from the back. I just wanna massage all over those tats 😆 But as it relates to your story: it sounds like the failure to meet wasn’t just due to the hookup site, but the fact that there was 2 DL married guys who also hooked up with each other (red flag). Even though such things do happen in real life (I can attest), those things tend to be built or more popular among confirmed m4m couples, versus sought after online. I know a gay couple now and it seems like they open to me to join their relationship, but I’ve spent the past couple years being friends with “couples” to where I need to move forward with my own life and plus: couples often want to move at their speed and pace. I ain’t got time for that shit. Trust me, you didn’t miss out on anything except maybe 1 good fling. Maybe they were serious and looking for that, but when you add wives to the mix, that’s a recipe for “something never going anywhere”. I met a client in Denver who gives the white daddy vibes. But every time after we met, it was always “because the wife”, etc etc. So we only met once so far. Like dude, I didn’t sign up to just keep hearing about how hard it is to get away from your wife all the time 🤦🏽‍♂️

I remember staying at a "budget" hotel in Orlando, and there was a note posted saying that there would be a $50 fine for cooking in the hotel room. I guess it was akin to smoking as far as fire danger goes. On some trips I'd take a George foreman grill along, but you have to carry your own cleaning stuff to avoid staining the hotel rags when cleaning it. I guess I've done all of the above already lol. Sometime I get tired of going to grocery stores too because it's like..dealing with various crowds in various cities lol. I think too my mood changes day to day or time of day. @Shawn Monroe remembers: we ate out 1 night, then the next night I just wanted to eat in and make our own food. Especially when it comes to seafood. If I'm entertaining i prefer to make it myself. But, I do love it when a client shows me to a nice seafood restaurant lol. I just don't make enough disposable income to just randomly go to legal seafoods or ocean prime just because I'm hungry. I guess the real question was: who avoids sitting down at restaraunts and just takes to go lol. Now that I read it, i don't really like cooking unless I have a room at residence inn or towneplace suites or similar. Problem is, ever since post pandemic: many of these hotels have gotten to be so expensive ru where you almost end up spending same money going out. And when the possibility of a client coming is looming, it can be tricky to commit to cooking. But i kmow when i cook myself i lessen my chance of food poisoning, which happens far too often!!!

That's not my first choice for protein (I tend to get the tubs or grab whichever ones the store has in the fridge) But as @Benjamin_Nicholas said it's definitely a lifesaver especially after long workouts. Only issue is, the protein shakes aren't enough when needing to take pills/supplements..when I do, I tend to like the high protein drinks: Yah when I have points or can find a good market I'll go with rooms with a kitchen. But even then (I know I sound uncompromising), sometimes I'll do that, cook once or twice and get tired of that too. I've actually lost interest in the cooking at hotels thing also because it's too much work to grocery shop, buy/carry seasonings, sometimes hotels (even Marriott branded) don't have enough pots and pans. Then I have to buy my own, and then carry them around the duration of the trip. But I also worry about nutrition and making sure I'm eating enough to build/maintain muscle while traveling. So is hard for me to eat something like 1 pizza for a meal, and feel okay with myself. Maybe the money part is "relative", assuming I budget my hotel expenses and not overspend on things like going out (which lately I've been feeling stupid wasting my money going to shitty ass gay bars, only to stand around and look at cliquey people or drugged up types make out in a corners). The last night of my last trip, I ordered 2 prepackaged wraps from a gas station ($5.99) and that was my dinner. I actually felt okay with that because the little Podunk country town I was in, I wasn't really trying to explore (like @nate_sf said). But the next day I had a mediocre hotel breakfast and then went to the ihop type of diner across the street for brunch lol.

I was reading something similar on a travel forum, about people who challenge themselves to go on trips without eating out: but their alternative seemed to have involved having some sort of camper or traveling with more than 1 person and doing groceries/cooking. I ask because one thing that's kinda taking the fun out of extended travel for me, is the eating part. I joked around with a friend and said I'm going to take up the "addict" diet, that way I won't really be eating much to think about going out 😄 I suppose eating out is supposed to be a fun part of travel, but after a few days of doing it, and not having a "stipend", I start to feel like it's just an extra expense that should be cut out. On some trips, I've done the air bnb style hotels with kitchen for a couple days just to get a break from eating out...but sometimes I've found by the time I get groceries for what I'm making, I've already brought a dinner out, and the cost of the time buying/making it. It's crazy because, there's so many restaurants in a normal sized city, and I've known people who live off of uber eats/take out/dining out. I'm considering switching to non perishables and microwaveable when traveling, and only going out to eat if its client or friends involved 😄