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Sorry to enter this discussion late... it is an interesting and valuable one, and one that can easily open the very real wounds that some of our brothers carry as a result of mis-treatment because of their identity.
 
One thing that resonates deeply for me is how white-ness plays out here. White people, especially men, can far more easily navigate through places -- actual or implied -- than any others in our world. There is almost an assumption that whiteness is the norm ... a kind of hegemonic whiteness... and that anything that is other-than-white is the exception that must be "dealt with" as the other.
 
White men cannot possibly understand just how "easy" we have it - how our lives are not full of the aggressions (micro or otherwise) that are part of the daily realities of persons of color in our world.
 
To suppose otherwise - to in any way imagine a world in which there is "color blindness' is to be delusional.

The first truly erotic massage experience i enjoyed was at a legit spa/salon quite a few years ago in Toronto. The facility had a mens changing area with showers, sauna, hot tub, etc. Had been going for some time but had started seeing a new MT that I thought was very good... and very sexy. Later learned he did martial arts and was incredibly fit! This particular day I had booked a longer session than normal and went a bit early to shower and hot tub before my massage. I noticed my MT came into the change room a couple of times before our time, including when I was coming out of the water. Fast forward a bit to being in a massage room - private but not fully given ceiling heights between rooms. He would typically put a blanket on me in addition to the sheet - after the hot tub I was quite warm, so I said something to the effect of "can we not use the blanket - I'm hot". Suddenly his mouth was by my ear and he whispered "yes you are". After that moment the whole experience became more and more sensual. The fact that we were in the middle of this spa made it all the more intense. After increasingly adventurous touching and exploring I again heard that whisper asking me if I would fuck him!! Later learned that he was generally straight but increasingly bi-curious and wanted to explore further. He was prepared with protection and I enjoyed being able to give him what he wanted (and I wanted!). All undertaken with muffled noise and a heightened sense of being in a somewhat public place which made it all the more exciting. Any wonder I became hooked on erotic massage? lol

It was my second that left me a little surprised. It was with Asian Max in SF. I was laying on my front as he started rub me with his oiled body which I enjoyed. Then he started to use his hard cock to go up and down the crack of my butt. I didn't expect this and at first thought I thought it was his fingers then I thought in my mind is that his dick? I realized it was his dick i thought whoa. He then inserted his dick ( only for a couple of seconds). He is small so it didn't hurt.

I guess it would be a good time to jot down any phone numbers of regular masseurs before the sites disappear entirely.

You raise a good point. How do we continue in this environment? What are our options? What happens to some of us who are not as up to date in the tech world?
How do we continue as a community? Thanks for letting me vent.

Think it is bad now wait until Pence is the President. They will keep bananas, cucumbers and zucchinis hidden behind a curtain at the grocery store.

Yes I am. I figured you were too but I also know SF East Bay is not the only area that refers to itself as the East Bay.

Fellow Boy Scout showed me first time when I was 11-12, he was maybe a year older than me. I thought I was pissing in my sleeping bag, lol.
 
For whatever reason it didn’t start me on regular masturbation. Never tried on my own, at least not to completion, I’d experiment getting hard in the shower though.
 
At some point many months or even a year later, a friend and I were looking at Playboys and getting hard inside our pants. He said “my brother has this vibrator thing want to try?”. It was some sort of electric handmassager with the rubber surface removed, we took turns placing it over our hard ons (still inside our pants) and lo and behold I’m in some sort of wild mindless sexy funk and he says “look you did it” and there was a spreading wet spot on my pants. This was also my first experience of immediate change of mood after cumming, lol! I said bye, got on my bike and rode home hoping the breeze would dry my wet spot.
 
For whatever reason that day broke the proverbial dam, and daily++ alone times began in earnest.

Sounds interesting. I would set some guidelines and perhaps a limit on how long he can stay. I imagine if things work out you could renegotiate.

I prefer the ol' tried and true 'Don't Be An Asshole' rule of thumb

Sending good thoughts your way. Thanks for your postings.

Wow, that's a really nice experience that a lot of us would like to have I enjoy when things happen organically, unexpected. Just go with the flow and as @ontheroad wrote Be respectful. Be nice.

The rules are set by you and the masseur. Pulling down ones pants is a clear signal. You’ll know when you brush his naked member with your hand and he doesn’t move. Be respectful. Be nice. And see where it goes. How did he do the HE? Where are you finding his ad?

I also recommend Karl but you might consider Max, who has also been discussed in this forum. Great massage, very friendly, and a great body.
PM more for details.

Max is good, too. He was my very first session in SF. great guy

I also recommend Karl but you might consider Max, who has also been discussed in this forum. Great massage, very friendly, and a great body.
PM more for details.

I'm a little concerned about what the rules are here and on other sites for leaving reviews. I've been told never to review here because there's a high risk of being banned.
 
I put zero trust in the reviews on RM. Frauds. Some of us have learned tricks though. For example, if someone is awful give them a "positive" review with zero stars. Say the photos are good, say you'd see them again, etc. but then....zero stars. For some reason guys have a harder time removing those. Negative reviews disappear quick. When I see positive reviews with zero stars I know other clients are warning me to avoid.

First-time posters are only allowed to "bump." You have to post five times before you may "bumpty bump."
 
Of course, I am being facetious. Welcome to the Forum.

Any questions, go ahead and PM.

Must try. Good massage with everything extra. Uses his "tool" during massage. Nice body, handsome face, nice size, friendly and very hot. He did "everything"

Great read. Well done on overcoming nerves and having a memorable experience
 
Re: Bathhouses. Not all are created equal with the Steamworks chain likely being the best you can currently find in the States. The Chicago and Toronto locations in my experience are spotless, beautifully designed and a lot of fun. Always a great mix of guys.

Have been in text contact with WilliamEric . He seems to be quite busy. Have tentative appointment for Wednesday, will report back.

Have been in text contact with WilliamEric . He seems to be quite busy. Have tentative appointment for Wednesday, will report back.

Thailand.
 
I went for a month 2 years ago. I wanted to experience everything the country had to offer, but most importantly the infamous massages.
 
It took some time for me to go into an actual M4M spa as it was in another country and I was alone. I wasn’t sure what to expect and it made me uncharacteristicly nervous. However, there was this one that kept catching my eye as I’d walk by daily, and it seemed to be the least seedy out of the ones I’d been perusing. It was conveniently located a block from the hotel where I was saying. They opened at 4PM. Night owls.
 
On the night I decided to go, I stood outside for about 10 minutes trying to build up the courage to walk inside. Stepping over that threshold was an experience that I never could have dreamed of in my wildest dreams and I will never forget. I’m used to the mechanical, conveyor belt system of massage spas in NYC and didn’t really expect much more than that.
 
I walked inside and I saw a sea of sexy young Thai boys sprawled across- what seemed like- a living room floor. They were all on their gadgets, some texting, others playing games, etc. The door closed behind me and a young woman (lady boy) came up to me and handed me a “menu” of services. I made my selection of time frame and room type and then she walked me to the center of the room.
 
The guys all stood before me in a line and simultaneously took of their shirts. She asked me who I liked.
 
At this point I was being extremely shy. I’m not a timid or shy person normally- but this act of selecting a guy for a massage as they stood before me so I could have my pick of the litter slightly intimidated me. And it was obvious that, as I checked them out, they too were sizing me up at the same time. I felt a flush of nervousness and slight embarrassment. It felt so wrong but it also felt so HOT!
 
Some of the guys would shift the bodies in a sexy way to show of muscles, or they’d make flirty expressions in hopes that I’d select them.
The woman who ran the spa saw that I was struggling. She held the menu to block her face from the boys and asked me what I was hoping for. I didn’t quite understand at first so she whispered “top? Or bottom?” I’m versatile and so I said it didn’t matter- which made her roll her eyes in a sweet way and jokingly say “you’re on your own”. I took another glance over the boys and I realized that my eyes kept going back to this one slender boy who was trim and wearing these yellow and black harem pants. He was about 22. I pointed at him. As soon as I did that, the other boys dropped back to the floor, their shirts back on and immediately back on their devices again.
 
My Thai boy asked me to take a seat while he prepared the massage platter. He introduced himself as Aaht.
 
As I sat there, I noticed that everything was so well done. It was dimly lit but not so much as to be too dark. There were subtle red lights around and a slight scent of incense. The music was slow, tribal and primitive - yet sexy and relaxing. I was in a daze and I felt like a royal prince waiting for his massage as I sat there in what felt like a throne.
 
Aaht came over holding a platter that had a jar of oil, a candle, a water bowl with floating orchid, and a bottle of water for me. He told me to follow him.
 
At this point I began to get excited. He was so sexy and as he stood there shirtless over me, I could feel my blood pumping fast which made me hot in my ears. I stood up and began to follow Aaht up the stairs. He was barefoot and I could hear his feet patter against the wood steps as he climbed. He was steady and fluid as he went up the staircase and I could barely keep up. But watching him from behind as his shirtless body worked his way up to the room, mixed with the music, and his harem pants, and the sound of his feet got me hard before anything happened. As he would turn to go up another spiral of the stairs, I could catch a glimpse of his cock silohouette bounce against the thin fabric of his harem pants. And the round curve of his ass was just as delicious.
 
After what seemed like eternity, he opened the door to a room and showed me inside. It was here where he asked me to undress and place my clothing into a box shelf. I fumbled with my shoes and laces and shorts and T-shirt trying to contain my excitement but failing miserably. He smiled and it was incredible. I felt hot in my ears again.
 
Once I was naked, he ushered me into the bathroom where he told me he would wash me. He set the water to a perfect temperature and started to soap me up. It was so sensual having him run his hands over me so rhythmically- I was hard instantaneously. I couldn’t wait for the massage. He dried me off, held my hand, and walked me back into the massage room.
 
There he asked me to lay down on the table face down. It was then, for the first time, that I noticed the mirrors lining the entire bottom half of the wall. A perfect view for when laying on the table. I could see everything. He undressed and began with massaging my legs. This was a first for me. I’ve never had a massage start at my legsz Slow. Deep. Thorough. He was trained. And it felt amazing, especially after all of the walking around I’d done. Now initially, I had my head in the face cradle as he massaged me. However as he worked his way up my body (making sure I was moaning the entire time), I realized I needed to take advantage of the mirror and so I turned my head to watch his body as it meshed with mine. I could have cum so easily at any second as the intensity and pleasure was so amazing. And the massage itself was such great pressure and penetrating that I was in my own personal heaven.
 
As he went up my back, I could feel his cock rubbing against my thighs and my ass and my back as he went back and forth on my body while straddling me.
 
This went on for a while until he asked me to flip over. From there he continued to straddle the front of my body while massaging me. I watched in the mirror as he slid his body up and down my body while I leaked pre-cum from the tip of my dick- mixing with the oil from his jar. He slowly began to move from the straddle position. Before I realized it, my legs were over his and he sat underneath me.
 
I was so excited I could have exploded.
He then leaned in quietly and asked “can I fuck you?” I took a deep breath in and exhaled “yes, please fuck me” and he grabbed a condom and did just that. This was the most intense and blissfully insane experience for me. I was on another plane while our bodies mixed together And I watched every second of him fucking me through the mirror, with the red light, on this massage table, in Thailand. He was so into it and so very hard.
 
At last we both came and he let me rest for a bit while he started the shower again. He called me over and washed me thouroughly from head to toe while telling me about himself and his life in Bangkok. It was ultimately very sweet.
 
In the end I left a tip that was triple the amount of the massage (it’s so cheap in Thailand and so worth it).
 
This was hands down the best experience I’ve ever had in my massage-getting life and I always always always play it back in my head.
One day I’ll go back and try to re-live the experience as best as possible. And if not, then at least I had Aaht that once.
 
Fin.