DWnyc

I’ve been told some providers have closer relationships to RM admin and therefore can get stuff they don’t like about them taken down - but this may have been a veiled threat not to leave a bad review

I just did a quick search on customer reviews … apparently difficult to resolve any problems and you can never get hold of anyone, very long wait times on phone and for email query responses, maybe they can offer higher interest only by having minimal infrastructure

Ha I think it would have been double digits then this is mid / late 2000s let’s see from memory: 1. west side club 2. east side (the one we’re talking about in the thread) 3.Harlem, 4. flushing, 5. Roosevelt av, 6. Wall Street, 7. el mirage or something like that on Houston 8. somewhere near Times Square I didn’t say they were good and I certainly didn’t experience them all - but they’d always be listed in the magazines (remember hard copy) available to promote events I have a friend who bought an apartment in a building near 72/Broadway that was the site of one of the famous ones (Bette milder used to sing there?) but then we really are going back in time

These guys offering above 5% for a hybrid checking and savings. Never heard of them before but they have FDIC protection. https://digital.primisbank.com/brochure/select-product-unauthenticated/select/personal/DDA

When I first visited New York I think there were at least 8 places like this - and even then people were lamenting the “good old days” when there close to like 20. They once fulfilled an important purpose but your phone can turn any city into a bathhouse these days.

I have a couple of theories, not just about Euro but about some providers more generally. First, that some providers see their job as simply being paid to be with people they would hook up with anyway (or could tolerate in their most horny / desperate moments). So they reject people who don’t fit their selection criteria and the financial aspect (a client baffled at why being willing to pay they can’t be with the provider) turns into a lack of respect given all this (“how could you possibly think I’d be interested in you” etc). See the discussion elsewhere last month on providers asking for photos before confirming appointments and possible reasons for that. The other theory (with absolutely no judgement towards anyone on these matters) is about drug / alcohol use and who does how much and does it affect them either long term, or does a client just catch a provider when they’re in a bad state. Socially I’ve seen people typically “normal” who exhibit paranoia, aggression, vindictiveness … followed by no memory or extreme regret and apologies - that part we don’t see in a transactional one off interaction.

I should add I’ve received offers a couple of times. First, in my late teens from an affluent elderly widower in our town - my reaction was one of rage and disgust, and I now really regret this since I didn’t have the empathy for him I might have now - he wasn’t threatening and just trying to see if something was possible and I remember him tearing up when I reacted badly to his proposal. The second time was in my late twenties from a married-with-kids senior colleague offering arrangements when he traveled for work - where my bigger worry was do I get fired if I turn him down - it seemed really awkward and confusing and I dealt with it by hiding. Most recently from someone much younger than me (maybe mid 20s) who just feels lonely and inexperienced and terrified of “the scene”. I think I’ve finally got the hang of all this - am not into him at all, and I let him down very gently citing how his life will be so much better in the long run if he chooses another way to approach this ideally with someone closer to his age, or seek someone more “professional” (told him to look at RM and have offered advice he wants to go down that route). I’m definitely on the naive side in these matters and I wonder if I’ve missed other situations including where I though people were hitting on me a bit too aggressively but were actually making a financial proposition. Given how exceedingly average I am (maybe I’m a nice guy and approachable if that has any relevance) I can see how the more obvious targets could have a flood of offers from those with the means and feeling the need.

Just as clients sometimes forget they’re with someone who is only with them because of the transaction, I think some providers can blur lines between a paid engagement and a hookup in real life in their Providers are typically at the top end of the desirability scale (a key criteria for being in the business) and can sometimes act like they’re being approached by someone way beneath them (as they define it) at a club or online when the potential client questions start. And this can continue after the session, where they may lose potential recurring revenue because of the pattern repeating.

This discussion has been like watching a very badly scripted soap opera episode and then all of us sitting down together to discuss our feelings on the (lacking in credibility) storyline we just saw i feel like we established we are all nice people who don’t like treating each other unfairly. So the world is a better place and a note to the OP - try a little harder with your bait next time?

Me too as I shared earlier. I presume cost of living increases affecting the whole economy including rent and hotels are really biting. I’ve heard providers use words like “desperate” about their situation (eg when really pushing for an extra hour or repeat session) which I never have before (when typically it was more bravado, do you want more time? take it or leave it, I turn people away I’m so much in demand etc). Re-engaging former clients to jazz up revenue, including with special offers, makes sense in every other service provider business so why not this.

It should bother you as a client’s time is also valuable and should be respected. If it is really a last minute cancelation you may have arranged other things before and after so you could make that time, spent time preparing, spent money and time commuting to the meeting place etc so it would be extremely odd that you claim it didn’t bother you. whether or not you’re real (many here rightly doubt you’re reporting on a real situation) and for whatever purpose you’re enabling discussion of pertinent issues. In this specific exchange - the issue being that a clients time is also important. And I’m waiting for the plug for a specific escort (maybe the one you allegedly wronged) / your online business / link to your payment site etc at some point 😃

Stay away. He was very mean to someone I know and trust (personal verbal attacks). I can go into details on DM if you wish.

I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve traded messages before meeting on this issue and the provider will either 1) make it clear they prefer bare, plauknt safe may affect their performance and I can’t complaint if it doesn’t work for them etc 2) refuse flat out - will only accept the appointment if we agree on bare, “I'm on prep you have nothing to worry about” etc And in person I’ve experienced those who agreed on safe beforehand but really try to change that upon meeting. It’s the full BFE lol - “don’t you trust me? Don’t you like me? Dont you want it as much as I do …” etc etc I discussed this with one provider who said in addition to it making it harder to … stay harder … there’s an assumption that clients asking for safe really do want it bare, and the request is some fetish where they want that overturned etc I’ve also been stunned that some providers don’t have condoms with them (but have every toy, outfit, party consumable you can think of) And these are all folks who say they offer safe on their profiles (else I wouldn’t be engaging with them).

Then I would say you are lucky. I feel like one can discuss everything under the sun with a provider beforehand but if the reality is different, its a matter of how much that affects you and if you can resolve it. I’m generally fine with outdated pictures / lying about their age, less fine on “I know I said I’d do that (in our discussion beforehand or on my profile) but I don’t really … is that ok?” And if the provider is drunk / high / physically able to overpower you (and on some occasions has a roommate you didn’t expect to be there etc) that may affect your ability to solve the situation as you might at a restaurant or store. On balance the above and beyond from others has more than made up for this in terms of my view of providers as a group - but one should always be alert. And because I’ve sometimes been surprised at how a fantastic first experience was followed by some of this type of stuff, I don’t rely on reviews either (though they obviously help).

Well if it is a fake post / attention seeking etc - we provided the gentleman behind it a couple of hours entertainment, and he didn’t have to pay anything!

There are many inconsistent views on this, reflecting there’s no right answer. I’ve received messages asking if I’m ok as they haven’t heard from me and the last session was fun etc (with no indication from me that there would be a next time and going against the holy grail of not referring to the time as fun for the provider etc) … or “just thought I’d let you know I’m running a special offer for prior / my preferred clients” etc or most frequently something like “ just “checking in do you need anything?” I don’t see anything wrong with this - no different from say lawyers and accountants calling to check if you need anything - some firms offer biz dev budgets and time on staff calendars to focus on checking up on clients given how important it is when clients have so much choice. Everyone understands they’re not offering to bring you groceries or do your laundry when they ask if there’s anything they can help you with - and if you don’t you can ignore or politely decline.

Regardless of this is a genuine post / question - some thoughts promoted by it and the discussion: - it’s not uncommon for clients to blur the lines of provider meetings with personal interaction - making a booked session like an online hookup or even something more serious- forgetting that it’s ultimately a business transaction and often the provider’s main / only source of income. Similar issues as raised elsewhere where a great session (for the client) is misinterpreted as friendship or even more. Partly given the secret nature of these transactions, and also because (for the client) the sessions can become very personal, physically and emotionally. So the OP (assuming we have the full story or that he’s real) could have thought this is how it would be if it was a social appointment (again a bit odd - just be late and apologize) - some have mentioned how providers also cancel / are late or act up in other ways. Doesn’t justify the way the OP says he behaved - but I’ve generally found providers to operate (by my standards) far less than professionally - in politeness, reactions when things go wrong, transparency about expected costs, accuracy on services provided etc. I’ve seen the best behaved (in prior engagement or based on other reviews) turn into nasty and even scary people based on one issue not going as they want. Don’t know the full story or the OP’s prior experience with providers but he could have been bitten before and might have been scared off. Much as some things are obvious (ie he shouldn’t have canceled without compensation or showed up and eaten his most time) there are no strict rules in this business. He may have been scared of the wrath being unleashed for being late. He may be genuinely socially awkward / inexperienced in dealing with service providers of any sort who bill by the hour or people in general - one last point, much as providers love to highlight that they are in so much demand, client fees are paltry etc the reality for most is likely that they are struggling month to month and maybe budget according to projected income on daily / weekly bookings. I’ve received texts in the middle of the night from providers I’ve politely declined earlier after not being happy about something during text exchanges to gather info that go something like “was it the fee? I can bring that down to X if you come tonight …” and so forth. When you see a provider become terse because you won’t book a multi hour session or extend after your one hour finishes and - it may be more about their stress on how to pay their rent than being bad or scary people. Remembering this - often hard given the self image, tone etc that many providers like to project, perhaps as self defense - hopefully pushes clients to show a little more grace and certainly to make sure they account for their own mistakes that have financial implications.

You mean including the time needed for his explanation to immigration officers of what he will be doing while visiting their country? 😀

Unless there’s something about the scenario of hooking up with a crew member (and even if there is) - I’d say - don’t go anywhere near this! They have complex realities, the implication of losing their jobs is tremendous - @nycman mentioned their home country conditions - presumably on social matters - and it’s also economic. These guys are often supporting many folks back home and working under terrible conditions (eg they often don’t get the same benefits on the ship as American or European staff even at the same grade and are hugely dependent on passenger tips and their bosses’ goodwill. Have never been on a cruise but have heard that even on “non gay” cruises there is opportunity to connect with fellow passengers if someone has space of their own - the regular apps should help. Happy cruising!

Fortunately we are now at a point in time compared to 15-20+ years ago - where if you manage your own safety and health (whether you are negative or positive) - the other person’s HIV status shouldn’t really affect you. And if it does (eg you are not on prep and relying on others doing so to lower your risk) simply asking the other person their status (or not even doing that as they state it on their profile and you rely on that) is insanity. And in answer to the original question - just like a parallel discussion going on here on why a provider may say “vers top” if they’re not really vers) - it expands their potential client pool. Many negative clients (or those that think they are negative) - even if on prep - would avoid a provider who declares themselves undetectable (rather than keeps quiet on the whole subject). I’ve heard of providers carrying paperwork to demonstrate if someone wants to see their latest test results - but who actually goes that far to check, and how would someone concerned about all this be able to verify the paperwork was accurate?

If that really happens for anyone, “bankruptcy” would be my guess …

I’ve heard it’s as rundown as ever but as the only option for that sort of thing in town it attracts a regular crowd at predictable times (week lunch for office workers, Friday and Saturday nights for the club crowd etc)

I’m sure many just list as much as they can and be intentionally vague or ambiguous to maximize potential inquiries. You know, the type of comms from clients that we keep hearing wastes so much of their time I’ve often seen posts saying “sober” or “no drugs” followed by p n p being listed as “into”. Or “safe only” in the text and “anything goes” in the stats below - two other areas where a large number of potential clients could determine whether to go ahead.

Just opens up more options of potential clients …. who will make those inquiries about what that provider actually provides … and that drives a provider nuts because it’s a waste of time to engage with a client to establish what a provider really provides 😀

I know of several examples where providers won’t meet a client if they request safe and I think this is just the RM world catching up with that of hookups and dating. And of two prominent providers, well-known on this forum, who friends have told me, stealthed (ie removed a condom without permission after promising to use one). I also have heard - in one case directly from a provider himself, in another from a friend seeing a provider’s status on a dating site, that a negative status on RM is different from what they have presented elsewhere. It’s not enough to just have a conversation and leave it at that. I’m not naming names - not getting into why this may be the case for these folks, but just reiterating, it’s incumbent on us to use the tools at our disposal, and not rely on someone else to maintain what we prefer as comfortable.