TennisPro35

Reporting!
Saw him last night. Therapeutic was not selected in his profile — so the massage was a deeper swedish-esque motion. A case of “Rmen advertising on RMasseur” situation.  He tries.  A bit chatty but friendly. Oh, it was a bed massage at a Koreatown hotel. Traveller. A bit naive and a new transplant from his country but that is not what I am reviewing. 
 
What i mentioned above in my earlier post — all yes. Everything but FS. 
 
The pictures are him BUT the face in the photos are super (smoothly) filtered. Body was awesome - the pics are true. Oh, not 5’10”.  Maybe 5’8” at most? Not sure but he does not look 5’10”.
 
 It’s him though so it’s not 100% catfish. He looks early 30’s but when we started talking and his mannerisms … ah yes, late 20’s.  And I was correct. 
 
English is not his strong suit so please talk slowly in person to him.  And he smokes.  I smoke as well so that wasn’t a problem.  Just ask him “do you smoke? Yes? Do you mind brushing your teeth first or chew gum?” if kissing is an ok activity for you.  
You take what it is and what it can only be. 
 
*moderators, if I mentioned something that is not allowed, please let me know and I will edit the post*

Remember if you want more you have to be up front about it. I got to the point where I’ll ask for playtime and they either say yes or no. If they say no, I move on..I’ve gotten to old to do the maybe or  maybe not guessing game.  I just ask for what I want or need.  Better to go in and know what your getting than pay a lot money and be pissed jr didn’t even get caressed. 

@SamMiller213’s opening paragraph sums it up.  There are your MF/RM stalwarts but even then, these providers are possibly not in the right head (pun intended) anymore. I might go back to my Thai aunties for the legit massages and will check out the examples above on other therapists.  

I agree in that it’s the thrill of the unknown, and the dance between me and the masseur, figuring if they’re game. Ive had luck with masseurs where the text exchange had nothing about going further at all, but the massage itself did go further. I usually respond to their initiative; them putting their clothed crotch in my hand, or brushing their bulge on my head. Or if they brush their hand in certain areas, I’ll let out a moan to show that it felt good. 
 
Those are my most memorable masseurs, the ones I go back to. I usually don’t go back to any that present a menu of options. I like the organicness of letting the massage session unfold. 

I stopped by an Asian place the other day as I was killing time.  Not expecting anything.  I was half way undressed, the old lady came in ripped my t-shirt off for me, pulled down my boxers, slapped my ass and giggled.  She was nasty.  Good massage.

As I have said on other threads before... I seriously wish that "escort" masseurs would simply post up on Rent.men instead of RM and MF.  The first thing I look at is the rates they are charging.  When it says "ask me" that's a hard pass instantly, because 9 out of 10 you go to the reviews (if there are any) and they have $300+ for 60-minutes in their reviews.  
I have been lucky enough to find a couple of legit masseurs in the Phoenix area, one of which has recently thrown in the towel and stopped doing massage.  The one who threw in the towel was simply tired of clients pushing his limits in wanting more of an escort session at masseur rates.  
I will say that I have seen in the last three years a wave of new "masseurs" enter the market along with the "travelers" that have increased the prices.  I attribute slight increases to the economy, that's a given; but having a standard baseline at $200 for 60 has me rarely hiring new guys.  
 

I gave up on masseurfinder years ago and as soon as guys starting charging outrageous fees without any type of skill I went to a local guy.  He’s gay friendly and married but has thrown hints…I don’t let it go to far because he’s the type to back away and tell me he doesn’t want me  as a client if it goes to far.   Usually book an hour and a half it’s almost a steal. The massage is pretty good and I don’t feel ripped off because I don’t expect anything more.  Going to the other sites however, I end up paying more and might get some playtime with someone who isn’t trained but I expect more due to the overt advertising of erotic or sensual. Sometimes it’s anything but that.  Glad I found a regular guy that is reasonable.

I’m with you man. Not knowing if things will progress combined with provider expressing a willingness/interest because he wants to not because he’s obligated to. That’s Very hot!!!!

I’m with you. The thrill of the unkown definitely intensifies the session! And even if I don’t get the happy ending, I would be satisfied nevertheless if I got at the very least a killer massage.

I’ve recently made the switch from hiring off of MF/RM and started to scope out local establishments and independent providers instead. Talent started to dry up on the main websites and I was getting tired of overpriced and unskilled guys.
I’ve had a decent amount of luck just going with the flow and it leading to more with about a 60% - 70% success rate and learned a few things along the way.
1. A Google/Yelp search for male massage therapists was helpful in first finding independent therapists. Social media searches can be helpful too.
2. When possible I cross referenced online to see if I could find any social media that led me to see if they were on the same team as me and surprisingly that was usually pretty easy to confirm - I found this to obviously increase chances of something going further. It’s obviously much less likely from a “straight” provider but I can’t say it’s never happened before.
3. I never directly ask beforehand or during but instead just let it progress - there are ways to give subtle clues without being obvious and I’ve found this to actually be more stimulating for me and to limit the risk of crossing the line and being turned down.
4. Soothe/Zeel is much more hit or miss and again I’ve never flat out asked because I understand the risk - I’ve just let it progress and if it goes there it does. My success rate via these apps is much lower, probably in the 30% range but I’ve found this to increase with repeat visits.
I find this whole thing much more enjoyable than using the sites as there’s the unknown of what will happen which makes it more enticing.
My last hire was in Phoenix on a work trip and it worked out really well. I’m also decently hung which has been helpful here too 😂.

Any of you doing more of this and less of the main websites?
(Also, to be clear I’m not discussing any of the places and/or names here. This post is more about understanding people’s views on this topic and the approach rather than anything else.)

For me, just an oil rub … then mechanical dot dot dot.  He is raking it in, from what he subtlely let slip. I saw him at his apartment in OC within this year. 
 
I have been using this phrase a lot lately with these masseurs — you take what it is and what it can only be.
Maybe ymmv now, who knows  i haven’t been back   
 
he is a cute one though   
 

Any other updates on the other male masseurs at this place? The other Thai place - Thai Wellness - has an active thread (perhaps due to the “activity”).
 
 Just curious, months after.  Thank you, fellow forum friends.  

For me, just an oil rub … then mechanical dot dot dot.  He is raking it in, from what he subtlely let slip. I saw him at his apartment in OC within this year. 
 
I have been using this phrase a lot lately with these masseurs — you take what it is and what it can only be.
Maybe ymmv now, who knows  i haven’t been back   
 
he is a cute one though   
 

Reporting!
Saw him last night. Therapeutic was not selected in his profile — so the massage was a deeper swedish-esque motion. A case of “Rmen advertising on RMasseur” situation.  He tries.  A bit chatty but friendly. Oh, it was a bed massage at a Koreatown hotel. Traveller. A bit naive and a new transplant from his country but that is not what I am reviewing. 
 
What i mentioned above in my earlier post — all yes. Everything but FS. 
 
The pictures are him BUT the face in the photos are super (smoothly) filtered. Body was awesome - the pics are true. Oh, not 5’10”.  Maybe 5’8” at most? Not sure but he does not look 5’10”.
 
 It’s him though so it’s not 100% catfish. He looks early 30’s but when we started talking and his mannerisms … ah yes, late 20’s.  And I was correct. 
 
English is not his strong suit so please talk slowly in person to him.  And he smokes.  I smoke as well so that wasn’t a problem.  Just ask him “do you smoke? Yes? Do you mind brushing your teeth first or chew gum?” if kissing is an ok activity for you.  
You take what it is and what it can only be. 
 
*moderators, if I mentioned something that is not allowed, please let me know and I will edit the post*

Reporting!
Saw him last night. Therapeutic was not selected in his profile — so the massage was a deeper swedish-esque motion. A case of “Rmen advertising on RMasseur” situation.  He tries.  A bit chatty but friendly. Oh, it was a bed massage at a Koreatown hotel. Traveller. A bit naive and a new transplant from his country but that is not what I am reviewing. 
 
What i mentioned above in my earlier post — all yes. Everything but FS. 
 
The pictures are him BUT the face in the photos are super (smoothly) filtered. Body was awesome - the pics are true. Oh, not 5’10”.  Maybe 5’8” at most? Not sure but he does not look 5’10”.
 
 It’s him though so it’s not 100% catfish. He looks early 30’s but when we started talking and his mannerisms … ah yes, late 20’s.  And I was correct. 
 
English is not his strong suit so please talk slowly in person to him.  And he smokes.  I smoke as well so that wasn’t a problem.  Just ask him “do you smoke? Yes? Do you mind brushing your teeth first or chew gum?” if kissing is an ok activity for you.  
You take what it is and what it can only be. 
 
*moderators, if I mentioned something that is not allowed, please let me know and I will edit the post*

If the masseur presents himself as therapeutic and sensual only, it’s odd he’s sending you pics implying more is available. The most suspect part of it is that he is asking the CLIENT for pics before he sends his own. That’s a dead giveaway that he is willing to go further than advertised, but ONLY with the clients he finds attractive. That’s a major red flag of unprofessional behavior.
A good masseur works on everyone and maintains consistent policies regardless of how the client looks. Even if the massage gets pretty erotic, he will do this with every client that wants it, not just cherry picking from clients he finds attractive.
We receive a lot of requests for various pics. If we want the work, we need them ready, or to be prepared to say no and lose a potential client, even if we are very clear in our ad and private message communication that the massage doesn’t go that far. The client now knows this explicitly and yet still persists asking for pics. Seems crazy we have to play these games, but we are the ones who lose out if we don’t have or send pics upon request. Better, and clearer I think to refuse to send x pics if you truly don’t offer anything that would merit those pics and be willing to lose the work. It sends mixed messages, but he can send them anyway, be clear about the boundaries, and hope for the best.
If more IS available, I see nothing wrong with sending x pics upon request. The masseur should not require pics of the client to do this. Also, he should charge accordingly when the client requests extras or services more appropriate to an escort. Take note of his rates and maintain expectations accordingly.
Better yet, ask him directly: is x, y, or z included? Do you offer a, b, or c? Yes/no question format is best. Nothing will annoy a masseur faster than asking in an open ended fashion: “What is included?” Because that invites every possible act anyone could ever think of. The masseur has three choices: 1) not respond to the question 2) try to list every act ever conceived by mankind, which he won’t do 3) send a short list of what clients tend to like and that he’s willing to offer.
You know what you want. Just ask for it.
Each masseur has nuanced reasoning for what he chooses to send. Maybe he offers mutual touch and the client wants to see what he might be touching, even though no sexual contact meriting discussions of PrEP will actually take place. The masseur could send pics to appease the client but then the client has the impression that he can do whatever he wants with the masseur including full service for the price of a massage. That’s on the client for making dumb assumptions. But you never know. Clients tell stories of that stuff happening on these forums all the time. “I flipped over and he sat on my cock”.
Those are exceptions, not the rule, and really those masseurs should be charging escort rates for that level of service. Clients, please maintain reasonable expectations and pay your guys well if they go way above and beyond without discussing higher rates beforehand. Better yet, be clear in your communication about exactly what you want, what he offers, and what he charges for it upfront. And if you do want or expect full service, be prepared to pay appropriately for those services.
My rule of thumb: full service is double the massage rate. For example, here’s mine: $150/60 min massage. $300/60 min escort service. Your masseurs will vary but that gives you a rough idea of what to expect.
The whole PrEP thing is another discussion. Plenty of clients are concerned with our sexual heath even if they know nothing is going to happen. They demand the info even if we are clear about the limitations of the session. Damned if we list our health practices because it sends the message that we are having sex frequently with our clients. Damned if we don’t because clients demand the info even if it’s irrelevant to what is actually happening in their session. There’s the odd paranoid client who demands “proof” like asking us to send photos of our prescriptions. I don’t see those clients because there is no satisfying them, no matter what I do.
Then there’s the masseur who - surprise, surprise - escorts in addition to massage work, or - surprise surprise - advertises himself as a masseur but is actually only providing escort services. That’s fine. He should be clear in that case what is on offer and how much it costs. He may have “optional” additional services, which he should state upfront what those are, the limits, and how much (in addition to, or in lieu of his advertised massage fees).
Basically don’t make assumptions based on pics or info listed or photos sent. Don’t make assumptions at all. Ask directly about things you care about and go by what he says. If he prefers not to put it in writing, ask for a brief phone call. If he asks you (the client) for pics, politely decline and look for a more professional guy. Plenty of masseurs work on all types of clients and are not concerned about the way the client looks. His service is the same regardless.

Holy cow.  That will be the end of my hobby if ever massage prices becomes like that.  

On a first meeting with no phone call? Yes sir it takes some texts:

1. Hello. Is this John Doe? I got your number off your online advertisement. [I do not launch into anything until I confirm I've got the right number and right person]

reply / if he affirms I have the right number ...

3. Oh good. Glad it's you. Hope you're doing well today. Great ad and pics. Can you share with me your in and out rates? 

reply / if the rates are within my range ...

5. Thank you. I can swing that rate of $ ______.  My schedule is free tonight after 7. Would you happen to be free? I know it's short notice, but just in case ...

reply / he says he's not free tonight but is tomorrow night.

7. Oh, that will work, too. I prefer to host but I can also travel. I see you're visiting. What general area are you located in? I'm downtown.

reply / says where he's located and says he can travel.

9. Oh good! You're staying just a couple of miles from me. I am located across the street from  _______ (well-known landmark) if you're familiar with that.

reply / says he is

11. Are you cool with receiving oral and topping? And a one-hour session? That's generally what I do first meeting. (I try to keep the sexual down to a bare minimum but I at least want to establish this much if we're not going to talk on the phone. Ads don't always reflect accurate expectations.)

reply / Says yes, loves both. One hour good.

13. Great. Here's my exact address. ______________. I'll need to come down to let you into the building. 

reply / He asks about parking

15 and 16. I reply with parking details, which are complicated where I live, so two texts on that. If I expect a bad parking situation, I may generally propose Uber and offer to pay for it.

reply / confirming he's got parking details and how to get to door of apartment building.

18.  "Wonderful. I'll see you at 7 tomorrow night at ___________. I'll check in tomorrow afternoon to reconfirm appt."

reply / thanks me.


NEXT DAY SIX HOURS AHEAD OF APPT.

20. Hey. It's _______ from yesterday. Just wanted you to know I'm still on for meeting at 7 tonight at __________ (my address). I have condoms and lube but feel free to bring your own if you prefer. Are you OK with poppers being here?

reply / He's still on too and OK with poppers.

22. Please let me know when you're on your way and then just before you arrive so I can go down to let you in.

reply / OK


20 MINUTES BEFORE APPOINTMENT

23. "Hey. OTW." 

24. Great. When you're close, let me know again. I'll be standing in front of the door in a blue T-shirt, gray shorts and I have short gray hair.

25. Got it.

30 MINUTES LATER, BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE ALMOST ALWAYS LATE OR GET LOST.

26. Five minutes out.

27. Great. I'll be down to meet you.

ON SIDEWALK

28. Hey ... I see you.

And then I see guy approaching me half a block away.

29. That's me. 

And I walk up to greet him. And thus ends the texting.

That took almost 30 texts between us and that was each exchange moving the conversation forward with no hiccups. I see nothing unreasonable about this at all. A lot of that could be bypassed in a phone call. But if someone wants to meet me for the first time at my inner city apartment building, this is almost the MINIMUM number of texts it takes to establish that I:

A) Have right number and person
B) Learn the rates and can pay them
C) Establish time to meet
D) Establish where to meet
E) Get/give details on how to get there or him coming here
F) A very brief exchange on what to expect (ads don't always cover it all)
G) Supplies and poppers situation
H) Confirmations

Every single one of those items are important to a successful meet up. And you must first establish some points before getting to others. I'm not giving out my address and parking intel before I confirm rates, time and place. 

Now after the first meeting, you can eliminate at least half of those. If someone finds all that too much, that someone can pick up the phone and talk or find a less reliable, less detailed client. Skipping any information above for the sake of text brevity is what leads to all the posts on here about complaining about people being lost, being really late, sending bad directions, misunderstandings about payments, misunderstandings about offerings and expectations.

I'd rather err on the side of over communicating than under communicating. If a first-time provider doesn't want to establish some of these things on a phone call (which I vastly prefer as it takes so much less time and establishes chemistry) and finds that many texts too tedious, then we wouldn't have been a good match.

Tell me, how would you connect for the first time on text with a new provider who won't take phone calls and condense that necessary information down to fewer texts? Which points of information would you leave out?





 

I have the money, but I want value.
Don't see value in $260-$350 massages, even with MT/HE.

I actually stay away or stop the moment I start receiving mixed messages. I believe that part of what I am paying for is clarity (within reason) about what I can expect. For that kind of games there are the other apps.
Also, since there's no standard for what "erotic" and "sensual" entail, clarity of expectations become more important. I don't think that sending pictures of "appendage and orifice" is a good marketing strategy for providers (just my thoughts).

Holy cow.  That will be the end of my hobby if ever massage prices becomes like that.  

Reporting!
Saw him last night. Therapeutic was not selected in his profile — so the massage was a deeper swedish-esque motion. A case of “Rmen advertising on RMasseur” situation.  He tries.  A bit chatty but friendly. Oh, it was a bed massage at a Koreatown hotel. Traveller. A bit naive and a new transplant from his country but that is not what I am reviewing. 
 
What i mentioned above in my earlier post — all yes. Everything but FS. 
 
The pictures are him BUT the face in the photos are super (smoothly) filtered. Body was awesome - the pics are true. Oh, not 5’10”.  Maybe 5’8” at most? Not sure but he does not look 5’10”.
 
 It’s him though so it’s not 100% catfish. He looks early 30’s but when we started talking and his mannerisms … ah yes, late 20’s.  And I was correct. 
 
English is not his strong suit so please talk slowly in person to him.  And he smokes.  I smoke as well so that wasn’t a problem.  Just ask him “do you smoke? Yes? Do you mind brushing your teeth first or chew gum?” if kissing is an ok activity for you.  
You take what it is and what it can only be. 
 
*moderators, if I mentioned something that is not allowed, please let me know and I will edit the post*

Reporting!
Saw him last night. Therapeutic was not selected in his profile — so the massage was a deeper swedish-esque motion. A case of “Rmen advertising on RMasseur” situation.  He tries.  A bit chatty but friendly. Oh, it was a bed massage at a Koreatown hotel. Traveller. A bit naive and a new transplant from his country but that is not what I am reviewing. 
 
What i mentioned above in my earlier post — all yes. Everything but FS. 
 
The pictures are him BUT the face in the photos are super (smoothly) filtered. Body was awesome - the pics are true. Oh, not 5’10”.  Maybe 5’8” at most? Not sure but he does not look 5’10”.
 
 It’s him though so it’s not 100% catfish. He looks early 30’s but when we started talking and his mannerisms … ah yes, late 20’s.  And I was correct. 
 
English is not his strong suit so please talk slowly in person to him.  And he smokes.  I smoke as well so that wasn’t a problem.  Just ask him “do you smoke? Yes? Do you mind brushing your teeth first or chew gum?” if kissing is an ok activity for you.  
You take what it is and what it can only be. 
 
*moderators, if I mentioned something that is not allowed, please let me know and I will edit the post*

Reporting!
Saw him last night. Therapeutic was not selected in his profile — so the massage was a deeper swedish-esque motion. A case of “Rmen advertising on RMasseur” situation.  He tries.  A bit chatty but friendly. Oh, it was a bed massage at a Koreatown hotel. Traveller. A bit naive and a new transplant from his country but that is not what I am reviewing. 
 
What i mentioned above in my earlier post — all yes. Everything but FS. 
 
The pictures are him BUT the face in the photos are super (smoothly) filtered. Body was awesome - the pics are true. Oh, not 5’10”.  Maybe 5’8” at most? Not sure but he does not look 5’10”.
 
 It’s him though so it’s not 100% catfish. He looks early 30’s but when we started talking and his mannerisms … ah yes, late 20’s.  And I was correct. 
 
English is not his strong suit so please talk slowly in person to him.  And he smokes.  I smoke as well so that wasn’t a problem.  Just ask him “do you smoke? Yes? Do you mind brushing your teeth first or chew gum?” if kissing is an ok activity for you.  
You take what it is and what it can only be. 
 
*moderators, if I mentioned something that is not allowed, please let me know and I will edit the post*

Reporting!
Saw him last night. Therapeutic was not selected in his profile — so the massage was a deeper swedish-esque motion. A case of “Rmen advertising on RMasseur” situation.  He tries.  A bit chatty but friendly. Oh, it was a bed massage at a Koreatown hotel. Traveller. A bit naive and a new transplant from his country but that is not what I am reviewing. 
 
What i mentioned above in my earlier post — all yes. Everything but FS. 
 
The pictures are him BUT the face in the photos are super (smoothly) filtered. Body was awesome - the pics are true. Oh, not 5’10”.  Maybe 5’8” at most? Not sure but he does not look 5’10”.
 
 It’s him though so it’s not 100% catfish. He looks early 30’s but when we started talking and his mannerisms … ah yes, late 20’s.  And I was correct. 
 
English is not his strong suit so please talk slowly in person to him.  And he smokes.  I smoke as well so that wasn’t a problem.  Just ask him “do you smoke? Yes? Do you mind brushing your teeth first or chew gum?” if kissing is an ok activity for you.  
You take what it is and what it can only be. 
 
*moderators, if I mentioned something that is not allowed, please let me know and I will edit the post*