rn901

Rip offs can happen on both ends of the transaction so I understand both sides to this. Personally, I will ask for a small deposit if I'm to travel outside my city. I had a client book me to fly out to another city across the country only to not show up at the air port. He completely ghosted me after I made the flight. Fortunately, I had another regular in that city and met up with him. If I didn't have that regular, I would have been stranded and come out of that trip with a loss instead of a profit. I've had other others cancel or not show up after I made a considerable commute to see them. If I'm going to commute hours then I want to make sure it is worth my time. A small deposit lessens the possibility of getting ripped off and me wasting both time and resources. No shows and time wasters are frequent in this business. So I can understand both why some providers require some payment upfront and why some clients refuse to do them. For appointments in my city or the city I'm located in, I'll take the risk and not require any payment upfront. For appointments that require a commute though, a small deposit seems to be a reasonable ask. If providers didn't get ripped off, less would probably ask for a deposit. If clients didn't get ripped off, less would be hesitant to make an upfront payment. Unfortunately the present conditions aren't there yet and there exists a conflict of interests. Mature clients and mature providers should be able to see why and understand the two sides to this.

There is a myriad of factors as to why there is such a short retention rate in the business and why most escorts last two years or less. Emotional exhaustion from difficult clients is up there as a leading factor. Sure, there are other things at play like not being good at it, jealous partners, drugs, the stigma of the work ect. There is no single factor. However, if you think it helps to achieve a longer retention rate by bringing up this or that complaint from several years ago under a different name where only a single-sided narrative is given and the escort was not there to respond, then I would disagree. That hurts what is already a poor retention rate and it erodes the quality of providers to chose from in the long term. I will attest as someone who has done it a long time, that burn out is often mentioned to me as to why this or that person left the biz. Not good, and this site could either lessen that problem or worsen it depending on the norms it establishes and which course it chooses. Moderators taking a proactive approach in stamping out vitriolic remarks and toxic conduct in the deli is a positive development in the right direction. Disabling comments after multiple years of inaction of a thread is another. How far back are we are to track name changes poses questions.

I've never refused payment completely but I have insisted discounted rates or some amount of money off if something doesn't go right and if the experience isn't optimal (if I'm way late, need to reschedule at the last minute, not at my best performance). It makes for smart business, reduces the risk of a bad review and helps develop regulars. I find it to be a similarly good gesture on the other end when a client pays a partial amount for canceling at the last minute, if they pay a tip or they compensate for something that goes wrong on their end. Good clients make good escorts and vice versa.

Man's Country also closed. There seems to be few places remaining that I know of besides Steamworks and a place called RAM on halsted that I'm not even sure still exists. I don't why one would chose RAM over Steamworks though. There's also the basement of Jackhammer and the bar Touche in Andersonville, but both are specifically oriented towards kink and bdsm. Sometimes rarely there's cruising outside at the Montrose Bird Sanctuary, but that seems to be of a different era as well. Steamworks is a great facility but I'm always worried its days are numbered. Gentrification and sky rocketing property values are buying up these places and turning them into high end apartments. There's been attacks on Steamworks in the past by neighboring residents because they see it as a place for drugs. There's been overdoses in years past. SW seems to do a thorough job of keeping drugs out and screening people before they come in, but they can't be 100% effective 100% of the time. So every time there's an overdose, clueless often straight Lakeview yuppies see SW as some awful place in the neighborhood that needs to be cleaned out. I don't think they realize how much the community would come out to rally and defend the place. However, we would be virtually powerless if the owners decide to sell and the place gets converted to another bland condo building. In the era of hook up apps and rising property values, these places have become an endangered species. Support your local bathhouses.

I've also had situations where both the client and myself both forget about payment until after they or I leave lol. Happens quite a bit with me actually as I'm pretty scattered minded. Such clients though always have come through, paid and apologized. After good sex or good long conversation, it seems pretty natural to forget the transactional aspect of the arrangement.

It's good that the moderators have taken such a proactive approach to stamping this out. Some of the vitriolic and toxic commentary in the deli is probably why few providers come on here. Such remarks also lessen the credibility of this site. It runs the risk of looking like a place where the worst among clients can come, complain and pile on someone. It is one thing to raise objections or criticisms of a provider, entirely different when it is debased to personal insults and unsubstantiated claims attacking that provider's character. Just my opinion as a longtime provider who was on the receiving end of such behavior in the past years ago and wasn't here to respond.

Then we shouldn't be shocked that most leave the business around two years or less. Such short retention also means a decline in overall quality long term. In any other job, one wouldn't want to have complaints from several years ago used against them permanently. Who would want to stick around for that?

How far back will we look at name changes? For example, a provider may have had a different name back in the days of men4rentnow or rentboy but then changed several years later while on rentmen? Is that old name still to follow them? Reviews for old names from men4rentnow/rentboy were not carried over on Daddy's Reviews for profiles with new different names on rentmen. This also poses the question, should a provider still be judged for some client's experience from 8 years ago when they were under a different name? A provider may be a completely different person than they were several years ago, as we all mature and reach new wisdom as we develop through our 20's. Someone at 32 is not the same person they were at 20. Furthermore, they may have had some outlier client experiences from years ago that don't come close to resembling the experiences of their clients today or there may be information left out from that outlier experience that happened years ago. Studies have looked at demographics of providers in this kind of work and found that the overwhelming majority don't last more than two years, at least half probably don't last a year. The data on this site seems to confirm such a timeline of a provider if the data suggests two years is an appropriate threshold. Two years of no activity on a thread seems plenty sufficient, three years wouldn't be a terrible compromise either. Personally, I believe if someone has been doing this long term they shouldn't be judged by complaints that occurred years ago under a different name and especially if such complaints were not met with a response from the provider at that time to offer their side of the story.

A mixed bag which is not a change. Still get time wasters. Still get great clients. Still get not so good clients. Still get okay clients. Still get scared clients. Still get everything in between. Business was slow during the pandemic pre-vaccination in 2020. Then there was an uptick in the spring of 2021. Now business seems to return to normal levels or close to it. I would say the vitality and profitability of the industry correlates with the travel and hospitality industries (except us escorts didn't get the massive bailouts corporations did and we couldn't get unemployment for our type of work). During the height of the pandemic in 2020, things were very rough financially and business was slow or non-existent. Now business seems to be very close to pre-covid levels. Like many restaurants and hotels, business for an escort seems to be going fine now with the usual challenges and difficulties we had prior to covid. Vaccinated and kissing, yes.

I ask for a very modest partial payment upfront when I meet clients outside of my city because I have also been ripped off in that regard. I had a client that flew me out across the country and then didn't show up to pick me up at the airport. Completely ghosted me. Fortunately, another regular I had was in the same city and I told him the situation. We met up for a couple hours and I still came out of the trip with a profit. Now I ask for a partial payment electronically if clients are wanting to have me travel outside my city to see them. I had another my first year who was a regular and who I trusted. He took me to Vegas and I figured I would get paid because hey he's taking me to Vegas. However, when the trip ended he said he'll have to pay me the next day and gets me a cab home after we land late at night. I still thought I was good to get the money because I got paid multiple times for multiple appointments before the trip and he trusted me enough to bring along to Vegas but the next day comes and he doesn't pay. He never paid. So yeah I require partial payment most of the time when I'm asked to travel outside my city. Some clients don't like it, but others have made me make this a requirement. Most of my rip offs were in my first two years, but after awhile I learned to analyze every subtlety and trust my instincts. Now I'm pretty good at avoiding these situations before they even happen. I was very naive and innocent when I started. Was not from a big city and was very trusting. Now I know what to look out for. No one gets street smart if they don't get ripped off at least once. People who are street smart will often tell you the only way they got street smart was because they got played many times and learned each time. Such has been my story as an escort in a major city for ten years.

Yes, starting out when I didn't have the street smarts I do now. I had a very slick faux client/scammer. He asked to meet at his place which was a very nice apartment building downtown. He flattered me, said all the right things. Showed me pictures of his other homes and talked about how he had longterm relations with escorts over many years where he would pay them thousands every month. We also discussed possible places that we could travel to and showed me pictures of himself with other escorts in nice places around the world. He proposed the same kind of arrangement to me and that he would pay several thousand a month if I meet with him whenever he is available. I said yes. He was very convincing. At the end of the first visit we talked about meeting again and set up a date. He didn't pay me and said that we would need to meet a few times to officiate this arrangement. I was very stupid for trusting him. He even had a driver take me home. I figured since he had money that I could trust him paying. We met a second time. Again, this guy was good. Said all the right things, flattered me, complimented me, we had drinks, enjoyed each other's company, hooked up and he had his driver take me home again. By the third time, I'm thinking okay when do I get my money. He wants to meet again. And this time I'm insistent I get paid over text prior to meeting. He avoids my questions, kept trying to tell me is very busy with work and kept putting off talking. Finally, I got very persistent and he gets angry at me because he is very busy with very important things and is at a very important work event. He then mentions he has very good security at his building. It was then I realized I wasn't getting paid and I got conned. I had a gut instinct I should've listened to in the beginning and I've learned to trust that gut instinct all the years after this situation and for over 9 years it has served me well. He ended up doing the same thing to several escorts in our city. We then set up a network where we would warn each other about clients like this one. There was one provider who took check after an appointment and of course the check bounces and he never gets paid. He then warns the group of us and I save the clients number saying DO NOT MEET. Others would get visa gift cards from other scam clients and then those gift cards would get canceled. All the time, we get faux inquirers asking for our banking info and of course no one in their right mind gives it to them. Now I only take hard cash or instant electronic payment. It's good for providers to have a few others in their area to keep in touch with and warn each other if there are particularly bad clients. I consider it a very nice gesture if a client leaves the money out on a dresser or somewhere where I can see it so I know the money is there at the end of the appointment. I never require money upfront unless I'm traveling outside my city to meet a client, but then I ask for only a modest partial payment up front. Usually I'm fine with getting paid at the end of the appointment, but yeah money on the dresser is always nice too.

It's not unreasonable at all to ask if they are vaccinated. In fact, I think that should be encouraged. However, I would not show a first time client my vaccination card. I've had my fair share of stalkers over the years and don't usually give out my real identity to clients. Asking for a vaccination card with their real name runs the risk of potentially freaking out a provider who has to deal with the issue of stalking. Asking to see proof on a vax passport app that doesn't show their real name would be reasonable though.

I don't think its paranoid at all. Whenever I meet a client and they offer a drink, I insist it either be bottled/unopened or that they pour the drink in front of me. Frequently, when I started out I would meet the client for drinks at the bar to get a good feel for them. I could be wrong on this but I believe law enforcement isn't allowed to drink alcohol on the job even when staging a sting. So young paranoid me starting out, would see if someone would drink alcohol before getting started but this was always at a public place. It didn't take long for me to realize that stings are uncommon in this business, so I've let my guard up and don't do that "test" any more. I think having drinks before hand is a good way to chill everyone's nerves and get a good feel for each other, but I don't make it a requirement any more like I did my first year starting out. It's just a nice way of introducing each other and getting a feel on someone if either party feel it is needed. Today though I get a good read on someone in just a few messages. (My people reading has improved considerably doing this for almost a decade) I don't feel it is needed for me to meet for drinks or have drinks before hand, but it is always nice and I often get clients who prefer it as well. It should just be done smartly when first meeting and the advice on here seems pretty sound.

I don't

The art of conversation is what has has really provided for me the 9 years I've escorted. Without it, I would've made significantly less and lasted significantly shorter. I once thought that much of the information I retained in the humanities was useless, then I figured out I could put it to use with this job among educated men who enjoy interesting discussion. Intellect and conversation can really pick out the naturals in this line of work. Unfortunately, there are duds who can't do it if their life depended on it. I'm sure they're fine at sex though. Some clients prefer just that in an escort. They want sex, nothing else. But I have to say conversation is what has paid me with travel around the world and a nice accumulation of overnights among a great set of regulars. Getting paid to have engaging conversations with intelligent clients is something I love and I do wish it was a socially respected career choice. Alas though, we're not there yet.

I was pretty immediate in saying that it was bad communication on the provider's part wasn't I? Others made good points about the potential context on his end as well though. That perspective is important. No one said it was all you. It isn't black and white one is all wrong or all right. However, there was a problematic mindset on your end in the beginning of this and it still seems to persist, which was/is my main issue. "Maybe some providers are fine losing the business, but it seems to me if making money or, as so many providers advertise, providing a phenomenal experience for the client is the goal" Again, this reeks of the entitlement that was present in the beginning of this and shows the failure to see this as a two way transaction where the provider is given bargaining power and ample autonomy in deciding who they meet. The sooner you realize that, the sooner it will help you. Further, it is worth examining what you can do differently or how to look at things differently. As stated repeatedly, there seems to be two options here. Bashing escorts gets you no where, taking a new perspective and approach on the other hand can only help. Unfortunately, such a proposition is treated as way outside the realm of what is acceptable by some on here. I don't see what is difficult to understand about any of this? Very unfortunate that something so basic and fundamental is met with such animosity. It's very immature.

I have spent a good chunk of my escorting income on books lol, sometimes to my detriment

Rubyfruit Jungle by Rita Mae Brown, Giovanni's Room by James Baldwin, The Fire Next Time by James Baldwin, Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck, In Dubious Battle by John Steinbeck, The Jungle by Upton Sinclair, Native Son by Richard Wright, Wretched of the Earth by Frantz Fanon, Mythology by Edith Hamilton, The Odyssey by Homer, Hamlet, Midsummer Night's Dream, Macbeth, the Normal Heart by Larry Kramer, Angels in America by Tony Kushner, Portrait of Dorian Grey by Oscar Wilde, De Profundis by Oscar Wilde, A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn, 10 Days that Shook the World by John Reed, Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl, Eichmann in Jerusalem by Hannah Arendt, The Mayor of Castro Street by Randy Shilts, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey, Doctor Sleep by Stephen King, Tales of the City by Amristead Maupin

Highly recommend Boswell's other book if you haven't read it- Christianity, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality. Very ahead of his time and his scholarship was a nightmare for the Christian Right in the 70's and 80's. It drove them crazy because it was so thorough and irrefutable. We got to learn about Boswell in a LGBTQ history course. Great scholar! Great writing! Eloquent.

A couple books in history, LGBTQ stuff, novels, philosophy, politics and number theory Gay Berlin: A Birthplace of Modern Identity by Robert Beachy Stone Butch Blues by Leslie Feinberg The Boys on the Rock by John Fox Kindred by Octavia Butler Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler Notes of a Native Son by James Baldwin Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace: How We Got to Be So Hated by Gore Vidal Turning the Tide: US Intervention in Central America by Noam Chomsky A Concise History of Mathematics by Dirk J. Struik Introduction to Mathematical Philosophy by Bertrand Russel Number Systems and the Foundations of Analysis by Elliott Mendelson Probability: A Concise Course by Y.A. Rozanov Ordinary Differential Equations: An Elementary Textbook for Students of Mathematics, Engineering and the Sciences by Morris Tenenbaum and Henry Pollard (this one will take a couple of months) The Theory of Poker: A Professional Poker Player Teaches You How to Think Like One by David Sklansky

That was not stated in the original post. The single text exchange used as an example of poor communication was back pedaling from ridiculous statements, arguments and comparisons to escorting. It indicated an absurd yet common mentality when hiring among clients. I'm not going to quote the original post a third time for you. You know full well the mentality expressed when comparing escorting to service at a bakery and complaining about guys being as selective on RM as they are on grindr. It was pure entitlement that often goes way too unchecked on here. The divergence to the single text exchange then was met with alternative ways of viewing why a provider might be standoffish or disengaged in responding. This was met with a lack of introspection and lack of consideration of alternative ways of going about things. As stated twice before, you have two options: continue the same approach and wonder why you're dissatisfied or try a different approach with a better fuller perspective. If you have a third option on the part of clients, then provide it. The majority of escorts last one to two years in the industry max. Less than 25% last more than five years according to a 2016 study that compared demographics of escorts on Rentboy versus Craigslist. This is a turn over rate worse than inner city teachers and nurses. Being highly selective is how one lasts longterm in this business. Otherwise a provider will burn themselves out the first or second year on the most taxing of clients (who often feel they can treat you like a cashier at a bakery or who go all Karen if you don't respond with paragraphs to their paragraphs of questions). Many escorts get several inquiries a day, with very few inquiries serious and following through. Many providers will have neither the time or energy to write an essay to each one. If I didn't start to filter out the nonsensical and entitled, I would have not made it past my second year. One can find lots of complaints on here about the pool of providers to chose from, yet little is suggested on the part of clients to lessen such a terrible retention rate and improve the labor market. When alternative perspectives are offered, they're met with contempt and hostility because it suggests that the other end of the transaction has more decision-making and bargaining power than originally presumed on the part of entitled clients. If you want better escorts, the way to go isn't petulant complaining and worse working conditions. Seems like common sense. Taking in a diverse set of input from various perspectives and altering the ways one approaches providers seems a better way forward than the other option which is a dead end.

The OP was insulting in that he's entitled to people's bodies as he is to service at a bakery. Sounds like you don't want any challenge from the other side. Too bad. Tough luck. Get use to it.

An observation that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. People aren't allowed to join this site? You're just looking for a way to discredit what has been argued by accusing me of being someone else because you can't offer any other substantive response. Good luck to you both.

"Interesting. You joined this site less than a day ago, but your confrontational and myopic approach to posts is eerily similar to another member who hasn't appeared since embarrassing himself over a month ago." LMAO I don't know who that is or who you are referring to, but another deflection from the topic at hand noted. The things people do to avert self-growth and introspection.

You're 33 and having problems getting people to be paid by you to spend time with you. Also, you're with a mindset that you are entitled to someone's body as you are to service at a bakery and they shouldn't be able to reject you like they do on grindr. Clearly nothing needs changing on your part. Carry on then and continue to wonder why some will ignore you. Like I said, there are two options on your part: continue the current course of complaining online which changes nothing or take a new approach with new insight and a new perspective.