Ford makes major announcement

[+ MasssageGuy]

Ford likely has an eye to the future in making this decision. In ten to fifteen years the market for privately owned vehicles will diminish almost entirely. Huge fleets of autonomous vehicles will become the primary transportation operation in developed countries. These fleets will be owned by investor groups, the automakers, and some private entrepreneurs. The investor groups are already forming and making plans to enter the marketplace right now.

 

An SUV is going to offer greater flexibility in passenger accommodation than sedans. A sedan can comfortably accommodate four passengers including the driver. A small SUV, such as an Escape, can accommodate five passengers. The full sized SUV can handle seven to nine and way more luggage as well.

 

Time will tell if Ford is making the right bet on the car market of the future. The key indicator will be if the competition follows suit and eliminates sedans from their product lines. I can foresee Toyota, BMW, and GM making similar decisions or certainly projecting future trends and determining strategies for that future automobile market.

I agree. Just imagine that you call for a car or SUV or Pickup truck from your phone and it shows up at your door to take you where you want to go. Why need to pay car insurance, car payments, etc... Should be very interesting!

[+ E.T.Bass]

I've owned many Ford, Mercury, and Lincoln automobiles over the years. It is sad to see the car lines go. However, in recent years these cars have not kept up with styling trends and look old and out of date. I've switched to GM cars over the past few years and will stay with GM for the foreseeable future. I want to buy American whenever I can to support our economy.

My Dad always drove Pontiacs and Chevy. I'll consider GM, but I was really happy with my Ford, and wonder if GM has what it takes.

[rvwnsd]

I'm the world's only loyal Plymouth/Dodge owner. I've had three of their cars (Horizon, Caliber, and Journey) and loved all of then. The Horizon made it to >200K miles and the Journey has 108K and checks out perfectly fine.

[rvwnsd]

So much for urbanism and urban cars.

Meet Ford's idea of an urban car: The Focus Active small crossover.

 

Speaking from experience (Saturn SL-2) small sedan is pretty impractical in a city. Hatchbacks/crossovers much more so. Based on the description, the Focus Active is a lot like the Caliber, which was a great city car. It was easy to park, had an amazing turning radius, and with the rear seats folded down you could fit all sorts of things in the back. (I moved an armoire)

[body2body]

2017 Vehicle Sales Figures-

1. Ford F-150 878,000 units

2. Chevy Silverado 568,000 units

3. Ram Truck 501,000 units

4. Toyota RAV4 4o7,000 units

5. Nissan Rogue 403,000 units

6. Toyota Camry 387,000 units

7. Honda CR-V 377,000 units

8. Honda Civic 377,000 units

9. Toyota Corolla 329,000 units

10. Honda Accord 322,000 units

With the exception of the Honda Civic, all the Sedans have lower sales than 2016. Six of the top 10 are Trucks or SUVs.

Ford was the best selling brand in the US in 2017 (nearly half being Ford F-series trucks).

There appears to be a method in Ford's madness.

[escortrod]

My younger self would have laughed if told that someday I would own a Ford, but my Ford Fusion Hybrid has been the best car I've owned. The rest were Japanese, and they had their assortment of quality issues.

Doesn’t the Fusion use a Toyota drivetrain? The C Max hybrid certainly did when it was released, and I thought Ford had continued to use Toyota’s extremely reliable drivetrain for other hybrids.

[mike carey]

The one I remember is, 'A piece of tin, a piece of board, and oh my gawd, you've got a Ford'.

[body2body]

Doesn’t the Fusion use a Toyota drivetrain? The C Max hybrid certainly did when it was released, and I thought Ford had continued to use Toyota’s extremely reliable drivetrain for other hybrids.

It is a common misconception that Fords use Toyota systems in their Hybrid vehicles. Ford independently developed their Hybrid drive system in 2004. Ford subsequently licensed 21 Patents from Toyota, in exchange Toyota licensed patents from Ford related to fuel economy improvements. I have owned both a Prius, and a C-Max Hybrid, and in many respects the C-Max is a much more enjoyable car to drive due primarily to the development of the platform by Fords European design unit in Germany. C-Max uses a 2 liter Atkinson cycle 4 cylinder engine built in Germany. The Battery pack is a lithium ion unit sourced in Korea. This combination is also used in Fusion and Lincoln MkZ hybrid. The Prius uses a 1.5 liter Atkinson cycle 4 cylinder with a Lead/Acid battery.

Edited April 27, 2018 by body2body

[escortrod]

It is a common misconception that Fords use Toyota systems in their Hybrid vehicles. Ford independently developed their Hybrid drive system in 2004. Ford subsequently licensed 21 Patents from Toyota, in exchange Toyota licensed patents from Ford related to fuel economy improvements. I have owned both a Prius, and a C-Max Hybrid, and in many respects the C-Max is a much more enjoyable car to drive due primarily to the development of the platform by Fords European design unit in Germany. C-Max uses a 2 liter Atkinson cycle 4 cylinder engine built in Germany. The Battery pack is a lithium ion unit sourced in Korea. This combination is also used in Fusion and Lincoln MkZ hybrid. The Prius uses a 1.5 liter Atkinson cycle 4 cylinder with a Lead/Acid battery.

Interesting.

 

The previous generation Prius and Prius V used Nickel Metal Hydride batteries, not lead/acid (though as with most cars they would have carried a lead/acid battery for the 12v systems). The current Prius uses a 1.8l I-4 “Atkinson cycle” engine with a lithium ion battery, of varying capacity depending on model. I put “Atkinson cycle” in quotation marks since they are actually Otto cycle engines with timing altered to simulate the Atkinson cycle. So far as I am aware there aren’t any true Atkinson cycle engines in mainstream production cars.

[+ tassojunior]

The Focus will be the only "car" Ford makes and the only one feasible in Europe, etc. That small car market is big now and will be bigger with electrics which are the future. Ford is abandoning that market.

[escortrod]

The Focus will be the only "car" Ford makes and the only one feasible in Europe, etc. That small car market is big now and will be bigger with electrics which are the future. Ford is abandoning that market.

Abandoning that market in the US. They’re continuing to pursue smaller cars with the Focus, Fiesta, Ka+ and Escort in other markets. There would be little to stop them selling those in the US if demand for such vehicles rises sufficiently.

 

The Fiesta-based EcoSport is pretty small too, even though it’s a crossover. They are continuing to sell that in the States.

 

It will be interesting to see if they replace the Mondeo in Europe. Competitors are selling plenty of cars of that size (Passat, Insignia, etc) and are still developing new models, but as with the identical Fusion the Mondeo hasn’t been a big seller. Possibly because it was developed to be a ‘world car’ which has resulted it in not suiting any market particularly well.

[gallahadesquire]

One of the best cars I ever drove was a Ford Mondero in the UK. It was about the size of a Taurus, but was comfortable and all sorts of other lovely things.

 

I've never owned an American car: Volvo / VW / Toyota /Honda /SAAB / Mazda / Toyota / Toyota / Toyota.

 

But I'm punting Japanese now, as I absolutely despise the styling of the current Lexus Rx. I'm switching to an Audi Q7, and hoping I won't regret the decision.

[+ DERRIK]

I am sure I have bored the hell out of the providers I have entertained about the future of the car business.

 

Suffice to say that the idea of a personal car will soon become antiquated. Few today would imagine giving up a home phone landline. When most of us turned 16 - we were raring to get our drivers license - today's 16 year old cares little about driving.

 

the traditional middle class family of the past (2 parents - 2.4 children) went through more than 30 cars in their lifetimes ($3 million).

 

The concept of owning a car will be as obscure as grandpa using a mule to plow the back 40.

[MikeBiDude]

When most of us turned 16 - we were raring to get our drivers license - today's 16 year old cares little about driving.

I’ve found this to be true about today’s young potential licensees - surprises me! They’d rather keep the credit card on their über app current than study to drive, lol.

[+ DERRIK]

Our friends at McDonald's has been headquartered in Oak Brooke for 50 years. Home of McD University and executives - it has outlived its usefulness (not everyone works on site).

 

McD is building a new HQ in the loop and will sell off the old campus. One factor in the decision - new "nerds" don't want to commute 60 minutes to the suburbs - many do not even have cars - expect to bicycle - uber - El-walk to work ever day.

[+ tassojunior]

I am sure I have bored the hell out of the providers I have entertained about the future of the car business.

 

Suffice to say that the idea of a personal car will soon become antiquated. Few today would imagine giving up a home phone landline. When most of us turned 16 - we were raring to get our drivers license - today's 16 year old cares little about driving.

 

the traditional middle class family of the past (2 parents - 2.4 children) went through more than 30 cars in their lifetimes ($3 million).

 

The concept of owning a car will be as obscure as grandpa using a mule to plow the back 40.

 

Remember, most of the US is rural or exurb. Sharing will be hard there. Very hard.

[+ tassojunior]

Abandoning that market in the US. They’re continuing to pursue smaller cars with the Focus, Fiesta, Ka+ and Escort in other markets. There would be little to stop them selling those in the US if demand for such vehicles rises sufficiently.

 

The Fiesta-based EcoSport is pretty small too, even though it’s a crossover. They are continuing to sell that in the States.

 

It will be interesting to see if they replace the Mondeo in Europe. Competitors are selling plenty of cars of that size (Passat, Insignia, etc) and are still developing new models, but as with the identical Fusion the Mondeo hasn’t been a big seller. Possibly because it was developed to be a ‘world car’ which has resulted it in not suiting any market particularly well.

 

But where are the electrics ????

 

That's the future, especially for shares and Ubers in the US. In Europe by law.

[+ DERRIK]

KPMG (CPA to Ford) predicts 60% decline in personal sedan purchase by 2030. Every city will have different demand on mobility from each other.

 

Read more here regarding Islands of Autonomy. Lots of data here

 

Volvo is about to start their only manufacturing facility in the americas soon (South Carolina) and have made it clear that NO traditional combustion automobiles will be manufactured there. Everything will by hybrid or electric.

Edited April 27, 2018 by DERRIK

[escortrod]

But where are the electrics ????

 

That's the future, especially for shares and Ubers in the US. In Europe by law.

Depending on the jurisdiction. The EU has not mandated electrics, and there isn’t any other supranational body that could. The U.K. has mandated zero emissions capable by 2040, but that includes various forms of hybrid powertrain.

 

Ford have stated that from their autonomous vehicle testing they consider hybrids most appropriate and efficient in the medium term. So long as they are integrating electric in some form into their vehicles there is little to stop them ramping up production of full electrics when the market for them begins to mature (which still assumes that BEVs win out over other energy storage solutions such as hydrogen). It will be interesting to see if the vast sums being invested in BEVs by GM, Nissan, etc will result in a significant competitive advantage over the more hawkish approach taken by Ford. That is certainly not guaranteed.

[+ Charlie]

My Dad always drove Pontiacs and Chevy. I'll consider GM, but I was really happy with my Ford, and wonder if GM has what it takes.

My father swore by Chevy and Pontiac, and owned nothing else in my lifetime. Of course, he has been dead for 40 years, so if he were still in the market, he could no longer buy a Pontiac, and I wonder if he would still buy only a GM car.

 

I have owned 6 Toyotas, 4 Mercedes, 3 Renaults, 1 Volkswagen, 1 Chevy, 1 Pontiac, 1 Ford, 1 Mercury, 1 Plymouth, 1 Honda, 1 Mazda, and 1 car badged as a Toyota Yaris iA, which was designed and engineered by Mazda, has a Mazda engine, is built in a Mazda factory and sold as a Mazda2 in most countries. The latter is typical of cars these days, which are rarely pure products of the company that sells them.

[escortrod]

Remember, most of the US is rural or exurb. Sharing will be hard there. Very hard.

I would also expect that a large number of Americans will resent giving up a personal vehicle, even if they do not drive it themselves. My limited experience of shared vehicles in the States (Zipcar in New York) is that the vehicles were kept in significantly worse condition than Zipcars in London. I don’t know if that is purely economic, or if New Yorkers are willing to put up with worse (the latter being entirely possible given the state of the subway), but I can imagine many wanting to maintain a personal vehicle for that reason alone. Ultimately it may be regulation that pushes private vehicles off of the roads. When cars become truly interconnected it will probably pose too great a safety and security risk to allow individuals to be responsible for the maintenance of their vehicles. It would be like allowing private trains on high speed railways.

[+ tassojunior]

Depending on the jurisdiction. The EU has not mandated electrics, and there isn’t any other supranational body that could. The U.K. has mandated zero emissions capable by 2040, but that includes various forms of hybrid powertrain.

 

Ford have stated that from their autonomous vehicle testing they consider hybrids most appropriate and efficient in the medium term. So long as they are integrating electric in some form into their vehicles there is little to stop them ramping up production of full electrics when the market for them begins to mature (which still assumes that BEVs win out over other energy storage solutions such as hydrogen). It will be interesting to see if the vast sums being invested in BEVs by GM, Nissan, etc will result in a significant competitive advantage over the more hawkish approach taken by Ford. That is certainly not guaranteed.

 

France has banned gas and diesel as of 2040 and as the cost and range of batteries plummet the Guardian says:

 

Electric cars to account for all new vehicle sales in Europe by 2035

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/13/electric-cars-to-account-for-all-new-vehicle-sales-in-europe-by-2035

 

and China will probably beat that.

 

I don't see the coming fleets of shared self-drivers and Uber self-drivers sticking to gas in US cities either. Or California.

 

Ford and Chrysler are now basically truck companies. The Focus Active can't compete with the Civic in the US but in Europe it will because of tariffs.

[+ Pensant]

One of the best cars I ever drove was a Ford Mondero in the UK. It was about the size of a Taurus, but was comfortable and all sorts of other lovely things.

 

I've never owned an American car: Volvo / VW / Toyota /Honda /SAAB / Mazda / Toyota / Toyota / Toyota.

 

But I'm punting Japanese now, as I absolutely despise the styling of the current Lexus Rx. I'm switching to an Audi Q7, and hoping I won't regret the decision.

I have an Audi SQ5 and an Audi A3 convertible at my summer place. I think the Q7 is too big. Did you try the SQ5? Phenomenal car.

 

BTW, small SUVs are both the best-selling categories for Audi and Lexus.

[gallahadesquire]

Our friends at McDonald's has been headquartered in Oak Brooke for 50 years. Home of McD University and executives - it has outlived its usefulness (not everyone works on site).

 

McD is building a new HQ in the loop and will sell off the old campus. One factor in the decision - new "nerds" don't want to commute 60 minutes to the suburbs - many do not even have cars - expect to bicycle - uber - El-walk to work ever day.

My parents lived in Elhurst, ok about five miles from Oak Brook. In2007, it was an hour and 50 minutes to go from The Lakefront to Elhurst … 15 miles

[gallahadesquire]

I live in Central Massachusetts. Sharing is impossible. In fact, in most ifBew England, you can't survive without a car.