Gun and Hatchet Attack at Gay Bar in Mass.

[OneFinger]

A teenager armed with a hatchet and handgun opened fire inside a gay bar early Thursday, wounding at least three people in what police are investigating as a hate crime. A bartender at Puzzle Lounge told The Associated Press that the young man, dressed all in black, ordered a drink and asked if Puzzles was a gay bar. He finished his drink shortly after midnight, ordered another, then started attacking people, the bartender said. Three were hospitalized Thursday...

 

Read the entire story at:

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11146480/

 

Boy, you just can't be too careful when you're out and about.

 

-------------

"We need to have more respect for each other. Things have just gone really crazy, out of control. ... We're on a very weird kind of cycle." Stevie Wonder

[Guest zipperzone]

>A teenager armed with a hatchet and handgun opened fire

>inside a gay bar early Thursday, wounding at least three

>people in what police are investigating as a hate crime. A

>bartender at Puzzle Lounge told The Associated Press that the

>young man, dressed all in black, ordered a drink and asked if

>Puzzles was a gay bar. He finished his drink shortly after

>midnight, ordered another, then started attacking people, the

>bartender said. Three were hospitalized Thursday...

 

>Boy, you just can't be too careful when you're out and about.

 

I too read this story Thursday morning with combined feelings of horror, disgust and fear.

 

I cannot help but think that this type of violence is being fueled by the homophobic rantings of the Christian Right, aided and abetted by the President. It does not bode well for our future safety. And just remember, these same people also do not want such crimes to be concidered as hate crimes.

 

It's Mathew Sheppard all over again - and no one is going to step up to the plate and say enough is enough.

[Guest msclonly]

It is even more interesting, that gays do NOT take any responsibility for these kind of behaviors. Did you ever think that gays acting out so loud creates a backlash from the conflicted?

 

You really should stop projecting that which you refuse to recognize in yourself onto othes, who ever you think they are. You are really talking about yourself and are condeming them for the same think your are doing at the moment!

[bigguyinpasadena]

>It is even more interesting, that gays do NOT take any

>responsibility for these kind of behaviors. Did you ever

>think that gays acting out so loud creates a backlash from the

>conflicted?

>

>You really should stop projecting that which you refuse to

>recognize in yourself onto othes, who ever you think they are.

> You are really talking about yourself and are condeming them

>for the same think your are doing at the moment!

>

>

There you go again with your self loathing homophobia!Hopefully one of the Roided out muscle freaks you worship does not turn nutso on you-it does happen!

Your Nancy Reagan worsiping,Bally loafer wearing ass could be on the other side of the situation one of these days.

AND LOL at yourself before you post your usual response when someone calls you on your high stink shit!

Blaming the victim is not the way to stop hate crime.

Shame on you!

[Houston Bonfires]

This post by BigGuyInPasadena seems like a personal attack. How bout it Daddy?

[Yeswell]

The rules say that calling someone an idiot is a personal attack, saying that a person's actions or opinions are idiotic is not a personal attack. I express no opinion on msclonly and Houston Bonfires as people but I feel obliged to point out that the former's comments are poorly thought-out and offensive and that the latter's assumption of the classroom monitor rule is very irritating.

[Greathands]

I personally don't believe that msclonly's post was an example of "self loathing homophobia".

 

(I just wrote a few paragraphs explaining why I feel that way, but have since decided to delete my comments as it would only provide more opportunities for people to get nasty about my opinions.)

 

It's a sad commentary that on a place such as this, where DISCUSSION is encouraged, that you have to be careful what you say so you don't get your words twisted and told that your opinions are wrong.

[Guest Merlin]

Experience should teach us that it is a mistake to jump to conclusions about the killer's motivations. When JFK was assassinated, people assumed the killer was a conservative; he was in fact an extreme leftist who had always said he liked JFK. And we know that the most vocal and violent homophobes are often guys who have gay feelings and attempt to hide behind violent homophobia. There is probably a better than 50% chance that the shooter here is a gay young man trying to prove that he is not.

[+ deej]

The hatchet is really odd about this one.

 

I can see a disturbed kid who carries a gun anyway going postal having just come from one of his regular hate-fests. But a hatchet? It takes some planning to just happen to have a hatchet on you in a bar.

 

Someone planted real hate, really deeply, in that kid. And they're still out there, plying their trade. ;(

[JT Brooklyn]

History Definitely Repeats itself. I remember with No Fondness the Shootings in The Gay Bar in Greenwich Village, in which people did die!

[imrthr]

>"It is even more interesting, that gays do NOT take any

>responsibility for these kind of behaviors. Did you ever

>think that gays acting out so loud creates a backlash from the

>conflicted?"

>_________________________________________________________

 

What responsibility should the patrons of the bar have taken? Even the police stated that the bar was a business that did not cause the community any problems. The patrons were in the bar not bothering anyone, according to the article. Your response implies that the patrons should have expected to be attacked with a hatchet and a gun because of the behavior of other gays. That seems pretty bigotted to me.

 

______________________________________________________________

>"You really should stop projecting that which you refuse to

>recognize in yourself onto othes, who ever you think they are.

> You are really talking about yourself and are condeming them

>for the same think your are doing at the moment!"

______________________________________________________________

 

You have lost me totally with this part of your post. I do not see where the poster is projecting anything except expressing his horror over an unprovoked attack in a gay bar.

 

When you write such controversial responses to heartful concerns of the community, you only stiffle productive comments. I agree with Bigguy in his response to you.

[Paul Revere]

I wish folks would take a minute and learn the facts before commenting on these issues.

 

The attacker in the New Bedford gay bar incident is a self-proclaimed neo-nazi, and is well known to the police in that city. He has postings on myspace.com with all kinds of racist, bigoted, and homphobic rantings. His picture is him, the barrell of a gun and a swastika. This is one crazy disturbed boy, but nonetheless this being treated as a hate crime.

 

And personal attack or not, msclonly has to be a complete idiot to beleive that two guys having a beer and playing pool and minding thier own business in some way were asking to be attacked with a hatchet in thier neighborhood bar. The attacker is disturbed and crazy, but the victims do not need to be slandered like that. Only when we all stnd up to such mindless violence and insist on our equal rights, will these type of attcks stop. Maybe there will always be crazy violent people, but gays do not have to put up with the violence, nor do we need to take the blame for being victims of such violence. I find that logic used by msclonly to be reprehensible, ignorant and self-loathing.

 

Luckily I live in Massachusetts. The Police and civic leaders here have all taken the side of the victims. They all acknowledge that the bar in question is a quiet neighborhood place with no history of trouble. Violence was in no way invited on these victims.

 

All of the news media here are also treating this crime as the outrage that it is. They know that we do not need to apologize for being gay.

[OneFinger]

>The hatchet is really odd about this one.

 

According to an article in the Boston Herald:

 

He and his friends call themselves Juggalos and Juggalettes, references to the iconic figure of a hatchet-wielding maniac used by the Detroit-based hip-hop group Insane Clown Posse. While police along the East Coast continue the hunt for Robida, his friends are posting messages on his Web site hoping for his safe return.

 

Here's a link to the entire article. It gives some interesting insight about this "person". (I personally think he's more animal than human.)

 

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=124370

 

Also here's a picture of him. I'd love to see him captured, prosecuted, and jailed for his actions.

 

http://news.bostonherald.com/images/localRegional/jacobdg02032006.jpg

[OneFinger]

In the minutes after a Nazi-sympathizing teen smashed a hatchet into his face and fired a bullet through his back, paramedic Robert Perry lay motionless in a spreading pool of his own blood so his attacker would believe he was mortally wounded.

 

“I laid very still for a number of minutes. I knew that was my only chance to live . . . to stay still and pretend I was dead so he wouldn’t come back and hit me again,” Perry told the Herald last night. “This guy was four feet away, still shooting. All I could think is he’s going to try and finish me off.”

 

Read the entire article at:

 

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=124369

 

Here's a picture of the guy attacked with the hatchet.

 

http://news.bostonherald.com/images/localRegional/perry_ltp02042006.jpg

 

Robert Perry shows the cut he suffered from a hatchet at a gay bar in New Bedford.

 

-------------

"We need to have more respect for each other. Things have just gone really crazy, out of control. ... We're on a very weird kind of cycle." Stevie Wonder

[Guest]

>I personally don't believe that msclonly's post was an

>example of "self loathing homophobia".

>

Well, if it isn't, I don't know what is. That was about as clear an example and one can think of.

 

>(I just wrote a few paragraphs explaining why I feel that way,

>but have since decided to delete my comments as it would only

>provide more opportunities for people to get nasty about my

>opinions.)

>

Who was it that said "Better to remain silent and let people wonder if one is an idiot than to open one's mouth and remove any doubt."? Wise move...

 

>It's a sad commentary that on a place such as this, where

>DISCUSSION is encouraged, that you have to be careful what you

>say so you don't get your words twisted and told that your

>opinions are wrong.

 

Boy, this message center is all the worse for not having a disucssion as to why one should condone deadly violence (towards gay people, no less). My life wouldn't be complete without such a brainiac discussion.

[Guest]

How does an 18 year-old not only get into a bar, but order two drinks as well?

[+ Lucky]

RE: Gun and Hatchet Attack

 

Gay men like to see 18 year olds at bars! Well, sometimes...

[VaHawk]

Houston, I just love it when BGIP gets all riled up, firing off statements, that many consider, rightfully so, as a violation of the rules that state to attack the opinion of the poster and not the poster. He's always been that way, just as he has always been one of the first to call for the banishment of others for engaging in those very same violations.

 

I don't agree with msclonly's post on this topic, as I rarely, if ever, agree with his posts on most topics. His postings do come across as those of someone who hates gays and hates the fact that he engages in homosexual activity, but BGIP could have stated his opinion without all the slurs, name-calling and attacks on msclonly's mental health.

 

But then again, its BGIP (lol, no personal attack intended, but I just realized, for the first time, that spells PIG Backwards!), and please realize, that after all, he is one of those "special LA Hoos", who as we all know, are beyond reproach! :o

[Guest zipperzone]

>You have lost me totally with this part of your post. I do

>not see where the poster is projecting anything except

>expressing his horror over an unprovoked attack in a gay bar.

 

Thank you for agreeing with my position, but I would like to respectfully point out that my post was intended to go beyond expressing horror at the attack.

 

The point I really wanted to get across is that as long as the current homophobic atmosphere is fed by the head honcho (sounds like a Texan expression eh?)we can only look forward to an escalation of this type of violence.

 

Granted the hatchet weilder in this case may be a very disturbed person, but the message that the Christian Right is determined to push - that homosexuality is evil - will only serve to encourage this type of individual to act out his twisted fantacies.

 

I was somewhat puzzled as to how to approach this subject here because I realise that what I am saying borders on politics and religion and as such could cause this to be moved to a forum that is much less read. I hope this does not happen as I feel the subject is much too important to be clouded in obscurity.

[Guest zipperzone]

>It is even more interesting, that gays do NOT take any

>responsibility for these kind of behaviors. Did you ever

>think that gays acting out so loud creates a backlash from the

>conflicted?

>

>You really should stop projecting that which you refuse to

>recognize in yourself onto othes, who ever you think they are.

> You are really talking about yourself and are condeming them

>for the same think your are doing at the moment!

 

WOW - are you ever "out to lunch"

 

There is no point in my rebutting your comments as I see many others have done that quite eloquently, but just wanted to let you know that I feel really sorry for you - it must be hell for you to live with such a viewpoint.

[imrthr]

>How does an 18 year-old not only get into a bar, but order

>two drinks as well?

________________________________________________

 

One of the news articles I read that reported this event stated that through his association with the neo-nazi organization, the guy obtained authentic-looking fake identification showing that he was 21 years of age.

[OneFinger]

RE: He's Caught and Shot But 2 People Are Dead

 

A teenager suspected of a hatchet-and-gun attack in a Massachusetts gay bar shot and killed a small-town police officer and the teen's female passenger before he was critically wounded in a gun battle with police Saturday, authorities said.

 

Jacob D. Robida, 18, was shot twice in the head and "it doesn't look good right now," said Massachusetts prosecutor Paul Walsh Jr.

 

Walsh said the teen shot Officer Jim Sell, 56, twice during a traffic stop in this northern Arkansas town.

 

About 25 miles away, Robida sped over spike strips set out by state troopers, but continued to drive with two punctured tires into downtown Norfork. Robida's car then careened into several parked vehicles to avoid a police barricade.

 

"When he wrecked he started firing at our officer and a state police officer and the officers returned fire," said Baxter County Sheriff John Montgomery.

 

Walsh said the teen shot his unidentified female passenger before he was wounded in the shootout with police.

 

Robida was taken to a Springfield, Mo., hospital, according to state police spokesman Bill Sadler.

 

Investigators had searched for Robida since Thursday's attack at a bar in New Bedford, Mass., that left three men wounded, one critically.

 

The hatchet used in the attack was found outside the bar, but detectives believed Robida still had the gun.

 

Robida was a high school dropout who friends say glorified Naziism but never expressed any specific prejudice against gays.

 

"This is insane," said Heather Volton, 22, of Fall River, Mass., who had known Robida for more than a year. "That kid never so much as raised his voice at me ... This is all pretty much a shock to me, like everyone else."

 

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=157&sid=158154

 

-------------

"We need to have more respect for each other. Things have just gone really crazy, out of control. ... We're on a very weird kind of cycle." Stevie Wonder

[+ glutes]

RE: He's Caught and Shot But 2 People Are Dead

 

He shouldn't have been hard to spot. 18 years old, 5'6" and 190#, sporting Nazi tattoos??

[+ deej]

RE: He's Caught and Shot But 2 People Are Dead

 

Not that unusual in Arkansas. <sigh>

 

If he's lucky, he won't survive the head wounds.

 

If he does survive, his original crimes are compounded by shooting the girl with him before the shootout with police. If he recovers, he's likely facing a conviction followed by many years as the pass-around-bitch on Cell Block D.

 

It seems fitting, somehow.

[+ ArVaGuy]

RE: He's Caught and Shot But 2 People Are Dead

 

>Not that unusual in Arkansas. <sigh>

>

>If he's lucky, he won't survive the head wounds.

>

>If he does survive, his original crimes are compounded by

>shooting the girl with him before the shootout with police. If

>he recovers, he's likely facing a conviction followed by many

>years as the pass-around-bitch on Cell Block D.

>

>It seems fitting, somehow.

 

Assuming he survives, Arkansas is a death penalty state. Killing a cop is the fast track to the electric chair in the deep south. Although it would likely be lethal injection these days. If he's lucky he won't make it out of the surgery.

 

ArlingtonVaGuy