Can my condo baord force me to buy cable?

[bigvalboy]

That is the way my HOA operates. They have so little participation that if they depended on 51% of the owners to vote they would never get anything accomplished. However, it sucked for me a couple years ago when the board decided to expand the amenity center by adding a basketball court and a kiddie pool. I have never stepped foot in the amenity center but I still got hit with an $800 assessment for the upgrades.

 

Don't feel bad about the $800 assessment. Our board, of which I am the president, just assessed the owners an average of 7K dollars for re-roofing and painting the building. It was a 140K upgrade. I had the votes to fully assess that amount. We felt it was necessary to leave the reserve intact. Not doing so what have meant the reserve was not being fully funded. We got some push-back, but in the end it was the best overall. On Galt Ocean mile, a stretch of high-rise condos that were built in the 70's, are 50 years old now, and many of those owners were assessed ten's of thousands of dollars, some in excess of 60K for repair of cracking decking (which were not built to current code) and replacing elevators etc. I know some owners actually ended up losing their property. Boards have a right to lien property or confiscate rents if owners fail to pay the assessments. Before buying, assessing the financial health of an association is paramount to almost anything else.

[LoveNDino]

Don't feel bad about the $800 assessment. Our board, of which I am the president, just assessed the owners an average of 7K dollars for re-roofing and painting the building. It was a 140K upgrade. I had the votes to fully assess that amount. We felt it was necessary to leave the reserve intact. Not doing so what have meant the reserve was not being fully funded. We got some push-back, but in the end it was the best overall. On Galt Ocean mile, a stretch of high-rise condos that were built in the 70's, are 50 years old now, and many of those owners were assessed ten's of thousands of dollars, some in excess of 60K for repair of cracking decking (which were not built to current code) and replacing elevators etc. I know some owners actually ended up losing their property. Boards have a right to lien property or confiscate rents if owners fail to pay the assessments. Before buying, assessing the financial health of an association is paramount to almost anything else.

Oh goodness....I am holding on to the purse strings very tightly these days as I am expecting a big roof job in a couple of years. I DO NOT want any special assessments. That can get you murdered in SoCal!

@bigvalboy what was the general reaction?

[bigvalboy]

Oh goodness....I am holding on to the purse strings very tightly these days as I am expecting a big roof job in a couple of years. I DO NOT want any special assessments. That can get you murdered in SoCal!

@bigvalboy what was the general reaction?

 

lol...generally speaking, owners were pissed. No one really wants to right a check like that, but they understood.

[mike carey]

In my town, there are no HOAs, only the equivalent of condo associations. They only apply where there is shared title of the development (if each unit has completely separate title, there is no overarching entity). In the same way as has been described here there are laws about what it can do. The law here sets out whether each unit is separate (say single level) or part of a larger building. In the former case, each owner is responsible for all maintenance, and the corporation only covers the grounds and insurance, in the latter the corporation has to manage all external maintenance. In both cases the law requires the ccorporation to separate routine running costs from the long term ones. It is required to estimate long term maintenance costs and set up a separate fund to cover those, with annual dues for that purpose. That is in addition to dues for the annual running costs. Major expenses vary. If all the buildings needed the rooves fixing, all owneres would be levied. A new tennis court would usually require unanimous approval of the owners. Something like the cable TV service could not be imposed.

[Epigonos]

I can only speak about California. I have been on my Southern California board of directors for fifteen years. I am currently the treasurer and the presiding office.

 

In California condominiums are regulated by five plus sets of document, 1.) the individual associations CC& R’s, 2.) the Davis-Stirling Common Interest Development Act, 3.) the California Corporation Code, 4.) the individual associations bylaws and 5.) the individual associations rules and regulations. Courts will normally defer to associations CC&R’s UNLESS they conflict with Davis-Stirling, the California Corporation Code and numerous federal regulations such as the Fair Housing Act. Some older associations, mine included, do not have bylaws and everything that would normally appear in them is included in the associations CC&R’s. If an associations CC&R’s requirements for various actions are weaker than those put forth in the Davis-Stirling Act or the California Corporation Code the latter two take precedent. If, however, the associations CC&R’s requirement for various actions are more stringent that those put forth by the Davis-Stirling Act of the California Corporation Code then the associations CC&R’s take precedent. Example: the Davis-Stirling Act requires a 50% affirmative vote of the association membership to amend an associations CC&R’s. The CC&R’s of my association requires a 66 2/3% affirmative vote to change the CC&R’s THUS the associations CC&R’s requirement takes precedent.

 

I’ve only stated all of this to make the point that it is EXTREMELY complicated to understand all the ins and outs of condominium governance. You really have only three choices: 1.) read carefully all the documents that govern condominiums in your state and then go to a board meeting and argue your case, 2.) get a good lawyer who specializes in condominium law and if he agrees with your position have him write a letter to your board, and probably best of all 3.) forget the whole damn thing and pay for the cable

 

P.S. Kevin the ultimate answer to your question is YES. They can do anything they want unless you are willing to fight them directly or even possibly through your state's court system

[instudiocity]

My two cents: I agree with @rvwnsd anf @instudiocity. Depending on where the condo is located, there are many new state statues that have been enacted in recent years that protect owners from power wielding boards that try and force their authority on other owners. As an example, we just voted by a majority count (90%), to change our By-Laws, however new state laws prevents us from forcing existing owners to abide by those new By-Laws regardless of whether or not we received a majority of owners agreeing. The new By-Laws are only applicable to the next owner that occupies the unit of the dissenting owner. In other words, an existing owner can simply refuse to abide by any changes to the By-Laws.

In California, the HOA board has an almost exclusive right to lien a condo for an owner's failure to pay fees and assessments. The owner has to go to court to get it reversed. We can also charge 1% per month interest on the assessment and if it's a monthly assessment, we can charge a late fee of up to $100/mo.

 

I moved into my condo 25 years ago. I've been on the board 24 years. My friendly neighbors call me Mayor/Sheriff. My not so friendly neighbor calls me when she's scared.

[+ bashful]

In Illinois, if you fail to pay your association dues, the association can go to court, have you evicted, throw all of your belongings on the street, take possession of your unit, and rent it out to recoup past due payments, court costs, and other fees. I'm not sure, but I think you could lose your home faster in Illinois if your didn't pay association dues than it would take if you didn't pay your mortgage.

[Epigonos]

In California, the HOA board has an almost exclusive right to lien a condo for an owner's failure to pay fees and assessments. The owner has to go to court to get it reversed. We can also charge 1% per month interest on the assessment and if it's a monthly assessment, we can charge a late fee of up to $100/mo.

The problem with a lien is that the money isn't recovered until the property is sold. An association may also foreclose on a homeowner once the amount of his/her delinquency reaches $1,800 or one year has passed which ever comes first. However, only two types of assessments may used toward a foreclosure 1.) regular monthly assessments and 2.) legally passed special assessments. Fines for noncompliance of association rules and regulations may not be used for the purpose of foreclosure. Most homeowner, in financial difficulties, are aware that their mortgage holder can foreclose on their loan so they often skip paying the associations monthly assessment in order to make their mortgage payment. To their sorrow they lean that the association can also foreclose. The foreclosure process is long, involved and legally challenging. It requires the services of the associations lawyer

[LaffingBear]

Wow... we have alot of knowledgeable CA Condo follks here. Im also a director.

 

Wish ECHO had a forum like this for HOA issues.

[rvwnsd]

I was the HOA board president for several years. When I first got n the board, CA did not yet allow foreclosure for back dues. We could (and did) place a lien on a deadbeat's condo. He owed so much that when his lender foreclosed and attempted to sell at auction no one would bid on the unit. I tried convincing my fellow directors to offer to negotiate with prospective buyers, but they would not budge. The deadbeat still lives in the unit.

[bigvalboy]

I was the HOA board president for several years. When I first got n the board, CA did not yet allow foreclosure for back dues. We could (and did) place a lien on a deadbeat's condo. He owed so much that when his lender foreclosed and attempted to sell at auction no one would bid on the unit. I tried convincing my fellow directors to offer to negotiate with prospective buyers, but they would not budge. The deadbeat still lives in the unit.

 

That's outrageous...

[Epigonos]

The Community Association Institute is an international organization made up of groups and individuals that serve Home Owner Associations. The United States national headquarters for the organization is in Washington D.C. There are chapter all over the U.S. The Orange County Chapter is the second or third largest chapter in the U.S. The Orange County Chapter has monthly luncheons with speakers addressing topics relevant to HOA’s. These monthly luncheons are usually attended by three hundred plus members. Each chapter is governed by a board of directors and is assisted by a paid staff. I served as a board member of the Orange County chapter for a number of years. The local chapters consist of members from management corporations, vendors working with HOA’s, insurance providers, law firms that specialize on HOA laws and HOA board members and homeowners. The Orange County Chapter also offers free of charge a series of evening classes open to HOA board members and homeowners and address the major issues that face HOA.s. I cannot over emphasis the value of these classes. My association has belonged for years and would never consider giving up our membership.

 

If you have any questions regarding CAI please feel free to PM me and I will give you my telephone number and we can discuss matters further.

[instudiocity]

In Illinois, if you fail to pay your association dues, the association can go to court, have you evicted, throw all of your belongings on the street, take possession of your unit, and rent it out to recoup past due payments, court costs, and other fees. I'm not sure, but I think you could lose your home faster in Illinois if your didn't pay association dues than it would take if you didn't pay your mortgage.

Provided the association can finance the mortgage on the repo'd condo.

[instudiocity]

The problem with a lien is that the money isn't recovered until the property is sold. An association may also foreclose on a homeowner once the amount of his/her delinquency reaches $1,800 or one year has passed which ever comes first. However, only two types of assessments may used toward a foreclosure 1.) regular monthly assessments and 2.) legally passed special assessments. Fines for noncompliance of association rules and regulations may not be used for the purpose of foreclosure. Most homeowner, in financial difficulties, are aware that their mortgage holder can foreclose on their loan so they often skip paying the associations monthly assessment in order to make their mortgage payment. To their sorrow they lean that the association can also foreclose. The foreclosure process is long, involved and legally challenging. It requires the services of the associations lawyer

Ah, but refi's can motivate a deadbeat owner also.

[MileHigh]

They can force you only if it's for gay porn

[+ bashful]

While we may argue what's right or not, think how buying cable is in relation to what, and what is not included in your association fee. At my former residence, I had to pay for everything except for common area insurance, exterior maintenance (landscaping, snow removal, etc.), garbage pickup, and water. Some of my friends in condos also pay garbage/water bills, I have a great deal now. My monthly fee is just south of $300 (including the required cable fee) for a small condo. I only pay for electric, and if I want it, phone/internet. We have a central boiler, so get radiant heat in the floor, and all the hot water I need. Gas for my clothes dryer and range. Water, garbage, and of course, common area maintenance/insurance. The trick is to find a well managed association.

[+ bashful]

Provided the association can finance the mortgage on the repo'd condo.

 

Our association has over a million in reserves. They've done it.

[rvwnsd]

That's outrageous...

Yep. The other two board members (small complex) talked a good game, but when it came to taking action they weren't so tough.

[rguer]

The FCC might have jurisdiction. They have some control over satellite service; I don't know about cable.

[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

My question is does the board have the right to do this? If it advances the conversation, let's assume they have approval of 51% of the association.

 

My condo association had two similar things come up each of the last two years.

 

1. On the cable, the board did knew hey would not get the votes (we require 75%) for an exclusive deal as we had a couple of owners employed by the other company. The compromise was a discounted rate (not as big if it had been exclusive) and exclusive rights to include cable offers with the delivery of association bylaws when a unit changes hands. For that right, the association is getting a small fee which the board is depositing directly into the reserve. There is no billing to the condo unit.

 

2. Our sewer company approached the board about adding the sewer service as part of the condo services and increasing our monthly HOA by to cover the bill. The company wanted to eliminate its administrative expenses for managing the monthly bills for each unit individually. For that, they we offering a 5% discount. Since this only amounted to a $6 annual savings per unit, the board passed.

[+ Charlie]

Unfortunately, the fact that you as an individual don't want or use a service isn't given much weight as a legal argument against a charge (e.g., if you live on the ground floor, you can't claim that you shouldn't have to pay a portion of the charge for installation of an elevator, if the board decides one is necessary). But that shouldn't stop you from protesting the cable move at an open meeting, and encouraging others to do the same.

[LaffingBear]

Unfortunately, the fact that you as an individual don't want or use a service isn't given much weight as a legal argument against a charge (e.g., if you live on the ground floor, you can't claim that you shouldn't have to pay a portion of the charge for installation of an elevator, if the board decides one is necessary). But that shouldn't stop you from protesting the cable move at an open meeting, and encouraging others to do the same.

Thats decent advice, and logical. But depending on the CCRs, even if every owner stands in a meeting and says "we don't want it." the directors may be under no obligation to comply. They may be unwise to ignore the input, but not obligated. The best recourse is to vote them out and get involved.

 

I'm a director. It's a thankless duty. But owner apathy is huge in our small association. We had embezzlement and mismanagement due to apathy in the past. So I stepped up.

 

If our property needs new roofs, and the owners all sit in a meeting decrying their inability to pay - a preference to ignore the problem - I'm still able, and even responsible, to exercise my duty to do whats best for the HOA. That's why law grants the directors the authority. One way or another, I'm going to try to get the roof repaired at the owners' expense.

 

Roofs arent cable access... I'm using a more dramatic example to illustrate the directors' authority and owners' potential influence.

 

I might buy another condo some day. I'd try to avoid it, but never say never. But now that I've been a director... all of those eye-glazing documents presented before closing... the budget, financial statements, rules, CCRs, Reserve Studies.... I'd certainly read them next time. And I'd only become a member of a very well-funded association, that has specific management and governing provisions in place.

 

A secondary piece of advice: when the realtor says "condos are great - they take care of everything for you" throw your drink in their face. Several of my neighbors were told by realtors "get on the board-they'll waive your monthly dues." Both are false, one's usually prohibited. We updated our governing documents recently, and, at the advice of attorneys, pushed way more maintenance and repair responsibilities back onto the owner. Attorneys, management companies, advisors say all HOAs are doing it.

[Epigonos]

One of the most important documents a H.O.A. board can draw up or have drawn up is a Maintenance Matrix. It is simply a chart that clearly states who is responsible to Maintain/Repair or Replace all the components in the individual units and in all common areas of the association. It also states which section of the CC&R's determine responsibility.

We had one drawn up, in consultation with our attorneys, a number of years ago. Once the document was drawn up the board distributed copies to all homeowner. Now if, for example, a homeowner comes to the board asking that their rain gutters be repaired or replaced the board simply refers them to the Maintenance Matrix. In our complex it is the responsibility of the homeowner since there were not originally installed by the association.

The matrix makes the boards job a whole lot simpler.