"Kinsey" and "Alexander the Great"

[spiro3]

I’d be interested in reaction to these two new movies coming out this week, which involve the world of “our kind” in substantial ways. The real Kinsey was known to have engaged in homosexual relationships after he began his famous sex studies, and apparently the movie doesn’t shy away from portraying those.

 

As for Alexander the Great, perhaps the most famous out gay of all time (certainly the most powerful), I have to laugh at the trailers showing steamy sex scenes between Colin Firth( as the great one) and Angelina Jolie. From what I've read Alexander had a male lover from his early teens to his early death, and only married women when it helped cement his extensive empire together. Leave it to Hollywood to hetero up the few real heros we have to latch onto!

[Guest Adono]

Actually, I think it's only the advertising that is hetero-ed up. A review in this morning's paper says Oliver Stone is quite direct in portraying Alexander's lifelong loving relationship with Hephaiston. No sex scenes, apparently, but some liplocks between Colin and Jared.

[bigguyinpasadena]

I saw Kinsey last week-it was just ok IMO.Bill Condon is not my favorite writer/director-he really rushes through some really important stuff while lingering on trivialities.just like gods and monsters.

Better than some other things playing and worth seeing-but you could wait to see it on DVD.

Looking forward to Alexander.

[Holden]

'I have to laugh at the trailers showing steamy sex scenes between Colin Firth( as the great one) and Angelina Jolie. "

 

You would laugh even harder if you found that Alexander was actually played by Colin Farrell. And, from what I've read, there is no "lip lock" between Colin and Jared Leto.

[+ Lucky]

RE: "Alexander the Great"

 

This is a good time for you readers to look into the Mary Renault novels about Alexander . Fire from Heaven, the Persian Boy, and one other. She writes so well that you feel you are right there. There are no holds barred on Alexander's love for men.

[Casteran]

RE: "Alexander the Great"

 

the other book is Funeral Games. All three a great books of his life by Mary Renault -- they may be hard to find as a set as they were written in the 90's, perhaps they may make a resurgence. The movie is based on Fire From Heaven.

 

A. Jolie plays Alexanders mother, Olympus. and early movie reports state that Alexander is portrayed as "bi" in the movie - of course what do you expect from Oliver Stone.

 

I certainly would want to lip lock Jared.......even if Colin never does.

[Guest alanm]

An article in the Sunday New York Times Art and Leisure section confirms that the film is very upfront on Alexander's sexual

preference. So up front, that studio executives are very concerned about the film's appeal to teenage boys, the core audience for this kind of action epic. Good for Oliver and Colin!

[Juan Vancouver]

Hey Spiro!

I just saw Kinsey tonight, and I was pleasantly surprised that they found a way to state their opinion in a very relaxed, almost modest way.

Kinsey's thesis, as well as this script's, is that the only common denominator that we human animals have as an species, is diversity.

We are only similiar in the fact that we are so interestingly unique, and we will only be able to live at ease with what we are, want, and do, when we accept that fact.

I think this is the most elegant attack that the pruddish america needs in this moment. It is mindblowing how many many years after those studies were made, people (at large) still believe that there are "rights and wrongs" when it comes to sexuality.

 

Is it really difficult to understand that no universal rule can be made based on personal taste?

 

I can only decide what is right for me, now. And after all, thats the amazing heritage that this crazy scientist has left for us to keep assimilating.

 

I personally, love art that makes me think.

 

I hope you enjoy it!

[Knabegeil]

RE: "Alexander the Great"

 

You're right about Mary Renault, Lucky. What is even more surprising is how open her books are for the time they were written.

[VaHawk]

RE: "Alexander the Great"

 

Not trying to nitpick, but I was pretty damn sure that I read the Persian Boy when I was in college, which was way before the 90's.

 

According to google:

 

Fire from Heaven (1970)

Persian Boy, the (1973)

Funeral Games (1981)

[Guest Tristan]

I recall reading a review of Alexander on some gay web site in which Colin was quoted as saying that he found it very offensive to kiss a man. Anyone know more about this remark?

[Flower]

Funny--I actually recall just the oppossite--not saying you're wrong, but I remeber at the time thinking he sounded like a pretty laid back guy. Wish I could remember the specifics. I believe I was reading an interview that was carried in gay.com.

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Mary Renault

 

>All three a great books of

>his life by Mary Renault

 

I read them when I was in High School and they were library books. And this was a small town which is now in a red state....

 

I know my local library here has these books and even if they do not, I often get books I am interested in through inter-library loan. The books have been reprinted in trade paperback by Vantage and there were any number of new and used copies availble on Amazon.

 

Highly recommended, readable, researched but these are not true pure historical texts, but a hybrid of that and a historical novel.

 

>A. Jolie plays Alexanders mother, Olympus. and early movie

>reports state that Alexander is portrayed as "bi" in the movie

>- of course what do you expect from Oliver Stone.

 

I do not share the opinion that the television advertisement I saw is particularly heterosexual and the one trailer I saw in a theater was not particularly hetero either.

 

My understanding is that the bisexuality is clearly in the film, something which made the studio unhappy, but Stone retained final cut.

 

 

 

http://www.gaydar.co.uk/francodisantis

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Kinsey and Finding Neverland

 

I enjoyed Kinsey and found it quite good. But then again, I liked Bill Condon's work and found Gods and Monsters well made. It does touch on homosexuality in a way that is interesting, given the current political climate as well as Kinsey's own bisexual tendencies, which was new information to me.

 

I also recommend Finding Neverland, which was more inventive than I expected. It addresses, in quick passing, the rumor of the exact nature of Barrie's interest in the Davies' boys. Otherwise, it is a film your mother and father (as well as any of you) would likely appreciate.

 

http://www.gaydar.co.uk/francodisantis

[Guest Tristan]

I checked out a number of gay web sites as well as googling the subject. Seems you're right. My mistake. The Entertainment section on gay.com has an article on Colin and gay roles. He is quoted as saying that kissing a gay man is not a problem for him. I know I read that some prominent actor did say kissing a gay man was offensive, but I guess either I got the wrong guy or someone misquoted Colin in another article. I wanted to set that str8. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 

I am not Flower.

[bbyguy]

News item today...

 

Many folks of Greek nationality want to sue Oliver Stone for depicting Alexander the Great as bi-sexual.

 

Collin apparently responded by saying they should sue him and not Stone... and added "who wants to come forward to shag me"

 

bbyguy

[woodlawn]

>As for Alexander the Great, perhaps the most famous out gay of

>all time (certainly the most powerful), I have to laugh at the

>trailers

 

 

I have to laugh at this post. It reminds me of the ludicrous fad of some years ago in which a few African-Americans were claiming that Beethoven was of African ancestry. Alexander was not a "gay" man as we understand that term. As was typical of Macedonian aristocrats of his day, he enjoyed sex with members of both genders. The distinction we make between "gay" and "straight" lifestyles did not exist in his culture, and it makes as little sense for gay men today to claim him as it does for straight men to do so.

 

 

< Leave it to Hollywood to hetero up the few real

>heros we have to latch onto!

 

Leave it to gay men desperate to justify their behavior to invent famous "gay heroes" who never really existed. Whatever Alexander's sexual habits, he was a ruthless tyrant and militarist who makes Bush look like a pacifist by comparison. Next we'll be told that Hitler was a "gay hero" because he conquered a lot of countries and spent a lot of time hanging out with Ernst Rohm.

[+ deej]

>I know I read that some prominent actor did say

>kissing a gay man was offensive

 

Perhaps you're thinking of Hal Sparks on his role in QAF. He was quoted as saying kissing a man was "like kissing my dog".

 

(In context, he was saying it was something he'd never experienced and giving an example but the media only used the incendiary bit. That's his story, anyway.)

[Fit In LA]

Thoughtful Post

[fedssocr1]

I saw Kinsey yesterday. I thought it was OK, but not great. The performances are strong, especially Laura Linney as Kinsey's wife. It certainly doesn't shy away from male nudity which was refreshing.

 

I always find it interesting to see who else is in the theater and among the few attendees at the Thanksgiving day matinee were an elderly couple probably in their 70's and a group of teenage or early 20's girls.

[Guest alanm]

"Leave it to gay men desperate to justify their behavior to invent'gay heroes' who never really existed."

 

I have not seen "Alexander" yet, but all the reviews mention the loving, life long relationship between Alexander and Hephaistion shown in the film. That is something to celebrate in a big budget action movie because it is a first.

 

Maybe you can tell me what the phrase "gay men desperate to justify their behavior" means. What behavior are you talking about? One man having sex with another man? If so, exactly why does gay sex have to be justified? It seems that gay men and women are winning that war, however slowly. Frankly, Dick Cheney sounds more enlightened on this subject than you.

[woodlawn]

>I have not seen "Alexander" yet, but all the reviews mention

>the loving, life long relationship between Alexander and

>Hephaistion shown in the film. That is something to celebrate

>in a big budget action movie because it is a first.

 

Why on earth would gay men or anyone else care about the first time some schlocky Hollywood action movie included a relationship between two men? Are women supposed to celebrate tha anniversary of the opening of "Bride of Frankenstein" because it's the first monster movie featuring a female creature? Don't be ridiculous. If you can help it.

 

 

>Maybe you can tell me what the phrase "gay men desperate to

>justify their behavior" means. What behavior are you talking

>about? One man having sex with another man? If so, exactly why

>does gay sex have to be justified?

 

I don't know why some people feel that gay sex has to be justified by silly conceits like pretending that a famous military leader was gay. If you ever find out, you can explain it to the rest of us. But the poster to whom I responded did complain that Hollywood is trying to take away "gay heroes." If people feel that gay sex doesn't need to be justified, then why would anyone care whether there are such "gay heroes" in the first place? Well?

 

 

>It seems that gay men and

>women are winning that war, however slowly. Frankly, Dick

>Cheney sounds more enlightened on this subject than you.

 

Among the many stupid remarks you've posted, that one deserves a special prize. Dick Cheney is a man who claims to have no problem with gay relationships but who has devoted his career to empowering people whom he knows despise gays and lesbians like his daughter. You and he deserve each other.

[Guest alanm]

You are the one who used the phrase "gay men desperate to justify their behavior." I do not know many gay men who are desperate to justify either their behavior or sexual orientation. Do you? Most

people would have acknowledged that using the word behavior was a mistake.

 

It is a part of human nature for an individual, or groups of individuals, to have heroes or at least admire particular people.

I agree that Alexander the Great is not hero material for gays or anyone else. You correctly point out that Alexander did some horrible things. But most people know Alexander for only two things, his leadership in battle and supposed sexuality preferences. It is hardly surprising that gay men would concentrate on the latter.

 

As to Dick Cheney, politicians, or human beings in general for that matter, are seldom all good or all bad. I admire Lyndon Johnson for the sweeping progressive domestic legislation that he got through congress in the first years of his presidency. At the same time, Johnson is mainly responsible for Vietnam and behaving badly to his wife, staff and many others.

 

Whatever Dick Cheney's motives may have been in disagreeing with Bush on a constitution amendment to prevent gays and lesbians from marrying, the important thing is that he did disagree. As you know, vice presidents seldom disagree with presidents in public. Who knows, if I read more of your postings on this site, I might even find something to admire about you.

[noviceny]

Just saw Alexander

 

Hey Guys,

 

I saw Alexander last night with my 18 yr old straight Albanian cousin. Before the movie, my cousin told me how he has always been taught by family that Alexander's father (Philip) was Albanian, or at least from the area that is now considered Albania. He is very proud of this.

 

Well after we saw the movie, he was singing a different tune !!! It seemed to both of us that Alexander spent more "time" with his male lovers (his best friend and this young Persian kid) than he did with his wife/wives. I really liked the 3 HOUR MOVIE but was fucken pissed off at all the assholes in the theatre, that kept making comments like, "Oh no he didnt !!!! and "EEEWWWHHH GRoss!!" and laughing when ever there was a homosexual scene such as Alexander kissing the Persian/Asian kid, etc.

 

Dont know about affiliating him with homosexuality, but the movie made him seem basically to be getting with guys and having a chick on the side to give him an heir. Seriously guys, this movie will be pegged as "a gay movie." My cousin said that he couldnt believe "How gay that movie was" and then said to me "I dont mean anything against you." He is a real cool kid and I guess you had to be there.

 

Go see the movie just cause it was a good movie, there was some eye candy, great history lesson (at least for me) and lastly to see Angelina Jolie's lips. Guys I cant help but want to be staright when I see those dick pillows that she calls lips !!!

[FLJohn]

>>It seems that gay men and

>>women are winning that war, however slowly. Frankly, Dick

>>Cheney sounds more enlightened on this subject than you.

>

>Among the many stupid remarks you've posted, that one deserves

>a special prize. Dick Cheney is a man who claims to have no

>problem with gay relationships but who has devoted his career

>to empowering people whom he knows despise gays and lesbians

>like his daughter. You and he deserve each other.

>

>I did not find alanm's response "stupid" at all. In fact it was far more intelligent than yours.