"Kinsey" and "Alexander the Great"

[woodlawn]

>You are the one who used the phrase "gay men desperate to

>justify their behavior." I do not know many gay men who are

>desperate to justify either their behavior or sexual

>orientation. Do you? Most

>people would have acknowledged that using the word behavior

>was a mistake.

 

How do you know what "most people" would do? Have you taken a poll? Or are you just making shit up? Again.

 

Why exactly would an African-American insist that Beethoven was of African ancestry when all the historical evidence shows that that is utter nonsense? Why would present-day gay men characterize Alexander as "gay" when the historical evidence shows that that term as it is used today had nothing to do with the man? If these are not forms of self-justification, then what is their purpose? Explain it to us.

 

 

>It is a part of human nature for an individual, or groups of

>individuals, to have heroes or at least admire particular

>people.

 

Is it also part of "human nature" for members of minority groups to invent "heroes" who never really existed? Why would they do that?

 

> But most people know Alexander for only

>two things, his leadership in battle and supposed sexuality

>preferences. It is hardly surprising that gay men would

>concentrate on the latter.

 

Why does it not surprise you that gay men would make an assertion about an historical figure that has nothing to do with reality? Do you think all gay men are ignorant?

 

>Whatever Dick Cheney's motives may have been in disagreeing

>with Bush on a constitution amendment to prevent gays and

>lesbians from marrying, the important thing is that he did

>disagree. As you know, vice presidents seldom disagree with

>presidents in public. Who knows, if I read more of your

>postings on this site, I might even find something to admire

>about you.

 

I don't particularly care whether you find my posts admirable. If you are chuckleheaded enough to admire Cheney for what was obviously a cynical political ploy designed to split the gay vote in the last election, your admiration isn't worth much in any case.

[woodlawn]

>>You are the one who used the phrase "gay men desperate to

>>justify their behavior." I do not know many gay men who are

>>desperate to justify either their behavior or sexual

>>orientation. Do you?

 

Yes, I do indeed. And many of them engage in this weird practice of pointing to famous historical figures who were gay or whom they suppose were gay as evidence of . . . what? That's the question. If people feel that being gay is a normal situation and requires no justification, why would they need "gay heroes" as opposed to heroes who were not gay? You haven't explained that. It's clear that there are some gay men who are focusing on Alexander not because he was an outstanding military leader but because he was an outstanding military leader whom they imagine was "gay." Why?

[Guest alanm]

Thanks for your comments. I remember the hisses and load negative comments in the movie theater when Michael Caine and Chris Reeve kissed in "Deathtrap." I plan on seeing "Alexander" tomorrow night, guess the same thing will happen unless I can find an art house theater that is showing the movie in Philadelphia. It is hard not to feel dispirited when that happens, no matter how well prepared you are.

[OneFinger]

>...I remember the hisses and loads of negative comments in the movie theater when Michael Caine and Chris Reeve kissed in "Deathtrap." ...It is hard not to feel dispirited when that happens, no matter how well prepared you are.

 

I also had a similar experience when seeing "Deathtrap". It also happened during the Harry Hamlin, Michael Ontkean and Kate Jackson movie "Making Love".

 

I get so pissed with the breeder mentality that it's OK to flaunt their heterosexism and gays have to respect their public displays of affections. But, the minute anything gay appears in public or on the screen it's their right to make negative comments.

 

If gays started booing and hissing during all the straight love scenes we'd be kicked out of the theater. So much for equality. x(

 

And don't even get me started on the disproportionate taxes I pay to support their rug rats in a school system where I have no children. I'm so sick of being put down while they've got their hands in my wallet to support their lifestyle.

[Guest alanm]

I understand that "Christmas with the Kranks" made 32 millions in its first five days of release, with "Alexander" coming in at only 21.6 million. Draw your own conclusion as to Hollywood will interpret those numbers. Let's see, Hollywood could conclude that it was an awful movie or Colin Ferrell is not a big enough star to open an action flick or that the word of mouth about the gay/bi scenes killed the teen male audiences desire to see "Alexander." It was probably a little bit of each.

 

I plan to see "Alexander" tomorrow night.

[woodlawn]

>I understand that "Christmas with the Kranks" made 32

>millions in its first five days of release, with "Alexander"

>coming in at only 21.6 million.

 

I see that you are continuing your usual pattern of ignoring any difficult questions others raise about the arguments you make here. Whatever your purpose for posting, it clearly isn't engaging in a dialogue with other posters.

[N.N.]

"Alexander" is rated R (Under 17 requires accompanying parent or adult guardian). The film features a lot of graphic warfare with impaled flesh, severed limbs and disturbing images of animal cruelty. Ms. Dawson also takes her top off, which may disturb some viewers in a rather different fashion.

 

(from a review at http://movies2.nytimes.com/2004/11/24/movies/24alex.html )

[Guest alanm]

Poor you. Your Sunday comments were just restatements of your previous comments. I will respond when you have something new to say on the subject.

[woodlawn]

>Poor you. Your Sunday comments were just restatements of your

>previous comments. I will respond when you have something new

>to say on the subject.

 

I don't really give a shit whether you respond or not. I certainly don't expect you to respond, since an honest response to any of the questions I raised would be an admission that your earlier remarks were wrong, and honesty is obviously not one of your virtues. I simply note for the record that you have a pattern of showing up to throw shit at me whenever the opportunity arises. Keep throwing. It's not going to stop me from doing whatever I would otherwise do.

[Guest alanm]

I always stop posting at some point with you because you have a limited amount to say, but always need to have the last word. As a result, you keep posting after the subject has been exhausted. This time I decided to comment on it and am sure that the next time I check this site there will be yet another comment from you on this thread.

 

You could spend your time better wishing good health to HooBoy or making some other positive comment, but, of course, that it is not what you are about. Or, more correctly, that is not what the persona you have assumed on this site is about.

[woodlawn]

>I always stop posting at some point with you because you have

>a limited amount to say, but always need to have the last

>word. As a result, you keep posting after the subject has been

>exhausted. This time I decided to comment on it and am sure

>that the next time I check this site there will be yet another

>comment from you on this thread.

 

Please don't lie. You have a pattern of popping up in the middle of conversations I am having with other posters to throw shit at me. That is your nature. You do that again and again, then you complain that I respond to what you post. If you have a problem with my responses, why don't you just cut it the fuck out?

 

 

>You could spend your time better wishing good health to HooBoy

>or making some other positive comment, but, of course, that it

>is not what you are about.

 

This will probably come as a shock to you, but I don't really give a shit what you think I should do with my time. One of the things you do with your time is, as I have pointed out, to throw shit at me in the hope that I will respond, then complain because I responded. Do you really think you're fooling anyone?

[Guest alanm]

I apologize to the two or three people who may still be following this pointless exchange. Even I stopped reading the responses a couple of days ago. I regret the waste of my time and the waste of space on this site.

[HotdadENYC]

RE: Just saw Alexander

 

>Hey Guys,

>

>I saw Alexander last night

>

>Well after we saw the movie, he was singing a different tune

>!!! It seemed to both of us that Alexander spent more "time"

>with his male lovers (his best friend and this young Persian

>kid) than he did with his wife/wives. I really liked the 3

>HOUR MOVIE but was fucken pissed off at all the assholes in

>the theatre, that kept making comments like, "Oh no he didnt

>!!!! and "EEEWWWHHH GRoss!!" and laughing when ever there was

>a homosexual scene such as Alexander kissing the Persian/Asian

>kid, etc.

>

 

Was it only twenty years ago or so that people walked out of movie theaters when Michael Ontkean and Harry Hamlin kissed and then some in "Making Love" ?

 

Wow, you've come a long way baby !

 

hd NYC

 

 

P.S. I was a BIT curious if the vindictive, personal snipes surrounding this thread had anything to do with the quality of the movie under discussion. If I missed something, would someone please let me know.

[OneFinger]

Just returned from seeing "Alexander" and I was impressed. The photography was outstanding and think it should be nominated for an Oscar on that point alone.

 

I couldn't believe all the extras they had to use for some of those battle scenes. In addition, when you consider all the heavy costumes, make-up, and animal training, the logistics of this movie would make an interesting documentary.

 

I really liked Colin as Alexander and thought he did an excellent job. Perhaps the actor that, IMHO, stole the movie was Jared Leto (Alexander's lover). What a beautiful man and a great piece of acting.

 

This isn't the kind of movie that everyone would enjoy. But I'm glad I saw it.

[jackhammer91406]

Box office Bombs Monday

 

Today I did something I haven't done in a long, long time. I played hooky and did a double feature at the multiplex. I chose the films based on my desire to be diverted for an afternoon. The films I selected were POLAR EXPRESS and ALEXANDER.

 

POLAR EXPRESS garnered great reviews but has done very poorly at the box office. I was unfamiliar with the source material, but had seen some previews and a couple of "making of" mini documentaries.

I found the movie charming and the animation dazzling. The 1 hour and 40 minutes raced past in no time. This film will probably become a classic better appreciated after it's box office run.

 

I went into ALEXANDER with greatly lowered expectations. The reviews have mostly said the film is a disappointment. Since I had no demand on the film other than to be entertained, I was more than satisfied with the result. Visually, the whole thing is stunning. The sets for Babylon are amazing. As for the portrayals, yes Jolie is a bit young to play Colin's mother in the later scenes, but that didn't bother me all that much. The relationship between Colin and Jared as his lover is well established without ANY actual sex scenes.

 

But let me tell you, if you want eye candy, the film is filled with it. From the early scenes with Anthony Hopkins and all those handsome Egyptian boys in the library, to the hot Persian attendants of Alexander, to even some of the very sexy generals in his army, there is one hot man after another. My favorite was the actor playing Ptolomy. He was very sexy in a muscular furry blond bear cub kind of way. Colin Farrel has the best looking manly legs in film. There is the ONE SHOT of his naked ass filmed from behind him, with his cock and balls briefly showing.

For armpit fetishists, there is plenty to ogle.

 

As a film, I am not disappointed by the theatrical device of telling the story in flashback. I did not find it hard to follow. I think if the film fails anywhere, (and I don't think it deserves all of the pans it got), I think that this man's life was just too big a subject to do justice in three hours.

 

It is a entertaining film and I can't wait for the DVD, just to be able to get more detail from viewing.

 

I give it three stiff dicks.

[Guest JohnPela]

RE: Box office Bombs Monday

 

>I went into ALEXANDER ... Visually, the whole

>thing is stunning. The sets for Babylon are amazing

 

>But let me tell you, if you want eye candy, the film is filled

>with eye candy. My favorite was the actor playing Ptolomy. He was very sexy in a muscular furry blond bear cub kind of way.

 

Jackhammer,

I agree with every word your wrote. I also kept looking for the actor who played Ptolemy.

 

I saw Alexander this weekend (also with low expectations) and really enjoyed the simulated splendor of Babylon, great battles reenacted, surprised to see Bagoas, the Persian boy, portrayed in the movie being around Alexander intimately and being kissed by him and also showing how Alexandria, Egypt would have looked at its height.

 

I have traveled to many places important to Alexander's life from his birthplace of Pella, capital of ancient Macedonia, Gordium, Persepolis Palace in Iran, Siwah Oasis and Alexandria in Egypt and to his furthest city east of Taxilla in northeastern Pakistan. Unfortunately, I guess seeing the ruins of Babylon in Iraq is off limits for many years to come.

 

Like Lucky, I have read and really enjoyed Mary Renault's Alexander trilogy, especially the Persian Boy. This is a very sexual and intimate perspective of Alexander as she envisioned his relationship with Bagoas.

 

Alexander has to be judged or viewed from the perspective of his time and not our present day standards. He could be cruel and stupid, like the destructin of Tyre, the Indian city destroyed near the end of eastern campaign when he was shot by an arrow when cut off from his men (that happened on top of city wall not in an Indian jungle) and the burning of the wonderous Persian capital/palace of Persepolis. He changed history and we and the world today were shaped by that mixing of Hellenic culture with the Middle East and Persia.

 

I think even a three-hour movie could not begin to encompass or show his life, but I think it was a good attempt and good movie.

[noviceny]

RE: Box office Bombs Monday

 

The countdown has begun !!!!!!

 

Blade III starts tommorow !!!!

 

There is an upside to having very little taste in movies...I like everything and there is always something out there for me to see.

 

Havent made it to Seed of Chucky yet

[Vincent_Michael]

RE: Box office Bombs Monday

 

ROFL!!!! LOL, going to any movie....I think the worst ever had to be Water World man I was can someone please put me out of my missery

[noviceny]

RE: Box office Bombs Monday

 

Water World almost bored me, so I definitely feel ya !!! However, mindless fights and explosions kept me interested:-)

[noviceny]

RE: Box office Bombs Monday

 

Just in case anyone's interested :

 

 

 

Seed of Chucky (R - 87 min.)

 

Cross County Multiplex Cinemas Cross County Shopping Center Yonkers (914) 376-7100

Dec 3-4 Fri-Sat: 10:20 12:30 am

Dec 5-7 Sun-Tues: 10:20 pm

 

 

Blade: Trinity (R - 130 min.)

 

* City Center 15 Cinema DeLux White Plains 914-747-6000

Dec 8-9 Wed-Thurs: *1:00 1:30 *3:50 4:20 *7:00 7:30 *9:50 10:20

 

* Cross County Multiplex Cinemas Cross County Shopping Center Yonkers (914) 376-7100

Dec 8-9 Wed-Thurs: 1:00 1:30 3:50 4:20 6:40 7:15 9:30 10:00

[jackhammer91406]

RE: Box office Bombs Monday

 

Novice,

Yeah, there are some times when I go to see a movie and all I want is to be distracted from whatever is going on in my life, so just entertain me and I'm cool. There are of course some times when I want to be stimulated to think about issues, or specific people, or just foreign locales. Then my expectations are much higher.

 

Having spent so many years in the industry, I do think I can distinguish between thoughtful cinema and mindless diversions.

And sometimes just the eye candy is enough.

 

And Vincent, Waterworld was bad, but some of those stunt men in it were pretty hot.}(

[Vincent_Michael]

RE: Box office Bombs Monday

 

Hot! hmmm I must have fallen asleep but I will trust you.

[Guest rohale]

RE: Box office Bombs Monday

 

>

>POLAR EXPRESS garnered great reviews but has done very poorly

>at the box office. I was unfamiliar with the source material,

>but had seen some previews and a couple of "making of" mini

>documentaries.

>I found the movie charming and the animation dazzling. The 1

>hour and 40 minutes raced past in no time. This film will

>probably become a classic better appreciated after it's box

>office run.

 

I'm glad you mention Polar Express. I was in Texas for the last few days on company business and I was staying with a person whom I'm very close to and her young son. The last time I had seen the both of them was at her parents house in San Diego, the day after Thanksgiving. I promised him that if no one else could take him to see either The Incredibles or Polar Express, I'd do it. Last Tuesday, his mom called me up and told me that he was still anxious to see Polar Express, cause most of his friends had already seen the movie. I got to Texas last Wednesday evening and my friend picked me up from the airport, we got to her place and just before her son went to bed, I told him that I have a treat for him for the weekend. I drove him to school last Friday morning and he kept talking about Polar Express. I knew that he wanted to see the movie real bad. On Saturday morning, right after he had his breakfast, I took him to soccer practice and I told him that we're gonna do something real nice together afterwards

 

He's a really bright kid and he figured things out for himself. After practice he came over to me and asked if we're going to the movies and I told him that's the plan. He asked me if two of his friends could come along. I took all three to see Polar Express. They really had the time of their lives. I enjoyed the movie, but not the way these little kids did. I was more happy for them, cause they could see something in the movie that I as an adult couldn't. These kids still believe in Santa Clause. After the movie, they couldn't stop talking about it. I dropped the other two kids off at their homes. We did a little shopping. When we got home, this boy was gleaming and showed his mom what we had purchased. I got him this neat little train set that we found at the local mall and offcourse he wanted the Santa Sleigh. His mom was alright with me and her son who is my pride and joy will be happy until Christmas.

 

In your other post, you mentinoned that seeing movies is a way to relax. I absolutely agree with you. I dont have the time to see movies nowadays. I travel a lot, both on company business and personal travel. I'm very rarely home nowadays, but when I'm home, besides enjoying a nice home cooked meal, anytime I get the chance to see a movie with my buddies, I treat the opportunity as a gift, cause I never know when that next time will be. I watch most of my friends take such things for granted in a way I'm not able to.

 

Rohale

[+ Axiom2001]

RE: "Alexander the Great"

 

Just last weekend my best friend who lives in Los Angeles asked me if I had read Persian Boy and its sequel; my response was no! He read both of Mary Renault's books about Alexander as well as having viewed the film and suggested that I do likewise if possible. Juan stated that one would get a more valid interpretation of Alexander, his sexuality, the culture that existed during those times.

 

Although I am enamored by Colin Farrel, I really don't have a desire to see this particular movie in which he stars. I guess my interest in this particular epic doesn't interest me. ...have no concrete reasons to justify the disinterest. :-)