James Deen accused of rape

[loverboy95]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/01/entertainment/james-deen-rape-assault-allegations-feat/

[+ quoththeraven]

And everyone is taking it seriously. Kink.com and Evil Angel fired him. The Frisky has put an end to a sex advice column. Go porn industry!

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/stoya-james-deen-rape-allegations-prompt-powerful-hashtag_565b7656e4b08e945feb83cf

 

Here's some links embedded in that article that are important (or in the second case, embedded in a linked article):

 

Reporting rates of 32 out of 100; of those 32, 7 are arrested, 3 referred to prosecutors, and 2 convicted (RAINN, from DOJ/FBI statistics). Rape often goes unreported because the results are so shitty. And the cases that are reported are at a minimum unlikely to present more difficult cases to win than cases that are unreported.

 

False reports are rare - 2 to 8% of cases (Vox)

 

From what I understand, beyond the fact that a number of women, including exes, have made accusations following Stoya's tweet of last Saturday, some of the alleged behavior took place on film sets within eyesight of others and was filmed. There are also accusations of an attempted rape in the bathroom/shower area at Kink.com and of rape, violence, and abuse offset in his private life.

 

Deen may never be prosecuted (or he may be; who knows?), but it's reasonable for the court of public opinion to label him a rapist and abuser whose fame and power in the industry kept women from accusing him publicly. Until he resigned recently (probably under pressure), he was the chairperson of APAC, which advocates for porn performers.

 

Here's another article exploring what this means in the context of sex work, which in itself makes prosecution more difficult:

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/01/porn-world-cuts-ties-with-accused-rapist-james-deen-and-stands-with-stoya.html

 

At least the world seems to have learned something from the Bill Cosby debacle. There is little upside to making rape accusations. When a bunch of women accuse someone of a pattern of conduct, it is highly likely he is guilty of that pattern of conduct. Believe those who accuse others of rape (they're not necessarily women).

 

We believe crime reports for every other crime. Why should rape be different?

[MrMiniver]

I never heard of this guy. I assumed he was someone related to Paula Dean but I guess that's not true. Is everyone a celebrity these days?

[+ Gar1eth]

 

 

We believe crime reports for every other crime. Why should rape be different?

 

Because it's too easy to cry wolf. I'm not saying that's true in this case. But it's usually a he said/she said type of thing. It is possible that the accuser may have been fine and then regretted the event afterwards.

 

Gman

[+ Gar1eth]

I never heard of this guy. I assumed he was someone related to Paula Dean but I guess that's not true. Is everyone a celebrity these days?

 

He's a famous straight porn star. He's been 'famous' for years. I don't follow stuff about him. But in occasionally looking up info on male porn stars, I've come across articles on him. I've never seen any of his films. But he's known for being a more 'boy-next-door' type rather than what males in most straight porn look like.

 

Gman

[marylander1940]

He's a famous straight porn star. He's been 'famous' for years. I don't follow stuff about him. But in occasionally looking up info on male porn stars, I've come across articles on him. I've never seen any of his films. But he's known for being a more 'boy-next-door' type rather than what males in most straight porn look like.

 

Gman

 

And boys next door types are the ones who rape the most.

 

[+ quoththeraven]

I never heard of this guy. I assumed he was someone related to Paula Dean but I guess that's not true. Is everyone a celebrity these days?

 

To the general population, he is probably the most famous male porn actor around.

[+ quoththeraven]

Because it's too easy to cry wolf. I'm not saying that's true in this case. But it's usually a he said/she said type of thing. It is possible that the accuser may have been fine and then regretted the event afterwards.

 

Gman

 

Please read the article I linked to about the statistics of false claims and then come back and tell me that with complete sincerity. That's not how this works. Most demonstrably false accusations are of violent stranger rapes that never occurred, usually to protect against beatings or accusations of infidelity. They are not date rape situations.

 

Besides, surely you can see the misogyny and low opinion of women baked into those assumptions?

[maninsoma]

I'm sure Kink.com couldn't sever ties with him quickly enough after these allegations surfaced. A lot (most?) of Kink.com's straight porn portrays gangbang rape scenes. Sure, they film the women calmly talking after the scene talking about how much they enjoyed themselves, but the fantasy being presented is one of violent gang rape. Maybe Deen doesn't understand the difference between acting out a consensual rough sex scene and having rough sex with someone who's telling him to stop.

[+ deej]

And boys next door types are the ones who rape the most.

 

 

I remember that. It's the Lindsay Lohan movie where the porn star was the better actor.

[+ Gar1eth]

Please read the article I linked to about the statistics of false claims and then come back and tell me that with complete sincerity. That's not how this works. Most demonstrably false accusations are of violent stranger rapes that never occurred, usually to protect against beatings or accusations of infidelity. They are not date rape situations.

 

Besides, surely you can see the misogyny and low opinion of women baked into those assumptions?

 

I'd say the same about a male/male or female/female accusations too. I can readily see how anyone ambivalent about having sex, tipsy or drunk might not admit they wanted to have sex-then change their minds or possibly regret it afterwards. We know memory is not static but a dynamic process. What we remember happening-may not be what happened-compound that with booze, drugs, regret-or what have you.

 

I will look at the article. But my main thought ahead of time is that people don't tell the truth about sex. You can never predict if what they say is what they do. Take Proposition 8 in California. By phone polls wasn't it supposed to fail? But it passed. It may not have been Prop 8. But the general thinking was that polls were wrong because people didn't want to admit to a pollster they were prejudiced. But we're fine with voting for Prop 8 in the voting booth. (Assuming it was Prop 8 I am thinking of).

 

Gman

[+ quoththeraven]

I'd say the same about a male/male or female/female accusations too. I can readily see how anyone ambivalent about having sex, tipsy or drunk might not admit they wanted to have sex-then change their minds or possibly regret it afterwards. We know memory is not static but a dynamic process. What we remember happening-may not be what happened-compound that with booze, drugs, regret-or what have you.

 

I will look at the article. But my main thought ahead of time is that people don't tell the truth about sex. You can never predict if what they say is what they do. Take Proposition 8 in California. By phone polls wasn't it supposed to fail? But it passed. It may not have been Prop 8. But the general thinking was that polls were wrong because people didn't want to admit to a pollster they were prejudiced. But we're fine with voting for Prop 8 in the voting booth. (Assuming it was Prop 8 I am thinking of).

 

Gman

 

It usually works the other way. They get pressured into having sex they don't want or aren't ready for or continuing to have sex when they want to quit to please the other person.

 

The idea that people who actually wanted sex (as opposed to were conflicted about it) would later on regret it so much as to call it rape baffles me. It is like letting loose an atomic bomb. Someone making rape accusations against someone he or she knows is guaranteed to be met with scorn and disbelief and to lose friends over it. Research on false accusations shows that's not how they get made, nor are they often used as a means of revenge.

 

The psychology of people pleasing you cite with regard to Prop 8 works the other way when it comes to sex (acquiescing to and not complaining about unwanted sex).

 

You are making me very discouraged about the possibility that we can get to the point where we can each make decisions about sex and our bodies without societal coercion or pressure. We will say the truth because we know the truth. And we won't be self-loathing about our sexuality or sex.

 

Gareth, stop assuming you know what the article says before you read it.

[rvwnsd]

Because it's too easy to cry wolf. I'm not saying that's true in this case. But it's usually a he said/she said type of thing. It is possible that the accuser may have been fine and then regretted the event afterwards.

 

Gman

 

Really? I'm sorry, but I'm having a difficult time believing that three women had consensual sex with this guy and changed their minds and all three are crying rape. Stoya mentions that she told him to stop and used their safe word. A "safe word" is one that is used to convey that the sexual activity is to come to an end. That means, the sex stops and forcing the person who has used the safe word to continue means the sex becomes non-consensual.

 

Before you say it, it is possible that he didn't hear her say the safe word. It is also possible that the Holy Spirit entered her room later that night and had its way with her, but I'm not rushing out to buy an Our Little Savior Winemaking Kit as a baby shower gift.

 

I'd say the same about a male/male or female/female accusations too. I can readily see how anyone ambivalent about having sex, tipsy or drunk might not admit they wanted to have sex-then change their minds or possibly regret it afterwards. We know memory is not static but a dynamic process. What we remember happening-may not be what happened-compound that with booze, drugs, regret-or what have you...

 

Again, I ask "really?" Are you telling me that if a forum member hired an escort, had sex with him, and was getting dressed when the escort pulled him back on the bed and held him down while fucking him against his will while slapping him you would say "well, the guy had regrets and now he is complaining?" That is positively absurd.

 

I will look at the article. But my main thought ahead of time is that people don't tell the truth about sex. You can never predict if what they say is what they do. Take Proposition 8 in California. By phone polls wasn't it supposed to fail? But it passed. It may not have been Prop 8. But the general thinking was that polls were wrong because people didn't want to admit to a pollster they were prejudiced. But we're fine with voting for Prop 8 in the voting booth. (Assuming it was Prop 8 I am thinking of).

 

Gman

 

I'm having trouble understanding this. You are equating an election whose results were different than a poll to rape? A poll queries a sample of the electorate. The people who are polled might not vote (i.e., their poll response is useless) and the entire electorate was not polled (i.e., most of the people who cast votes don't get polled, so their potential response is not captured.) Moreover, Proposition 8 was passed by less than 5% of the vote. Many polls have a greater than 5% margin of error.

[+ Gar1eth]

I'm having trouble understanding this. You are equating an election whose results were different than a poll to rape? A poll queries a sample of the electorate. The people who are polled might not vote (i.e., their poll response is useless) and the entire electorate was not polled (i.e., most of the people who cast votes don't get polled, so their potential response is not captured.) Moreover, Proposition 8 was passed by less than 5% of the vote. Many polls have a greater than 5% margin of error.

 

I'm not sure it was Proposition 8 or not. And if it was, that's not the only place it's been noted where people vote differently than they claim to vote.

 

Why is it misogyny to say that women might use the rape accusation falsely -and not misandry to believe that men are incapable of stopping or not beginning if the woman (or other partner) says no?

 

Gman

[marylander1940]

Is he the Bill Cosby of porno?

 

[marylander1940]

I remember that. It's the Lindsay Lohan movie where the porn star was the better actor.

 

no doubt!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0AKo_XX4Ws

[rvwnsd]

I'm not sure it was Proposition 8 or not. And if it was, that's not the only place it's been noted where people vote differently than they claim to vote.

 

Why is it misogyny to say that women might use the rape accusation falsely -and not misandry to believe that men are incapable of stopping or not beginning if the woman (or other partner) says no?

 

Gman

I didn't say anything about misogyny or misandry. I said I think your argument that rape is mostly a case of someone having regrets after having sex is ridiculous as is comparing rape to a poll on a political topic.

[+ Gar1eth]

I didn't say anything about misogyny or misandry. I said I think your argument that rape is mostly a case of someone having regrets after having sex is ridiculous as is comparing rape to a poll on a political topic.

 

I didn't say mostly. But I think it happens more than we know. And the point of my poll remark is that people lie about sex.

 

Gman

[+ quoththeraven]

Why is it misogyny to say that women might use the rape accusation falsely -and not misandry to believe that men are incapable of stopping or not beginning if the woman (or other partner) says no?

 

Gman

 

Men are capable of stopping or not beginning if their partner says no, but too many have gotten away with it. A culture that depicts men and women as unable to understand each other, as having essential and diametrically opposed characteristics, and as sex involving the pursuit of women who have an entirely different agenda of getting men tied down and suckered into an ostensibly monogamous relationship encourages men to keep going and get what they want. Sex s a battle men must win at the expense of women, who are only worthwhile if they do whatever the guy likes.

 

The short and most common name for this is rape culture, and the very gendered norms that make you comfortable underpin much of this activity. To say men take advantage of this is true, not misandrist.

[+ Gar1eth]

Men are capable of stopping or not beginning if their partner says no, but too many have gotten away with it. A culture that depicts men and women as unable to understand each other, as having essential and diametrically opposed characteristics, and as sex involving the pursuit of women who have an entirely different agenda of getting men tied down and suckered into an ostensibly monogamous relationship encourages men to keep going and get what they want. Sex s a battle men must win at the expense of women, who are only worthwhile if they do whatever the guy likes.

 

The short and most common name for this is rape culture, and the very gendered norms that make you comfortable underpin much of this activity. To say men take advantage of this is true, not misandrist.

 

I'm not saying it hasn't been true in the past. And I think it still does happen today. But I do not believe it every time some news story reports it. Although in this case, Deen may be guilty. But I also don't think you can get away from the fact that they are he said/she said narratives. No one unless they are in the room, listening to a tape, or watching a video can really know what goes on.

 

Gman

[mike carey]

The short and most common name for this is rape culture, and the very gendered norms that make you comfortable underpin much of this activity. To say men take advantage of this is true, not misandrist.

But, but, but, #NOTALLMEN. (Now where is the button for the irony/sarcasm font?)

[Guest]

Most demonstrably false accusations are of violent stranger rapes that never occurred, usually to protect against beatings or accusations of infidelity.

 

A rape case isn't proven just because it isn't "demonstrably false." In the United States, one is still supposed to be considered innocent unless proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. It is not up to the acused to have to prove his innocence beyond reasonable doubt. He isn't guilty just because only 7% of rape accusations are false (and that's if one is to believe that statistic). If a woman is raped, she should promptly go to a hospital ER and have the findings documented so that the case can be properly investigated.

[Guest]

Of course, I always have a soft spot for men with dark hair and blue or green eyes...

 

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/James+Deen+Canyons+Premieres+LA+Part+2+YVdAXB_Qecel.jpg

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9qF2Jin2S-A/T3S5lQrGBrI/AAAAAAAAFjo/h7jCOW8ojmo/s1600/James+Deen.jpg

 

http://f1.pepst.com/c/B7D232/640112/ssc3/home/029/hollywood.naked.stars.2/jamesdean_large003.jpg_480_480_0_64000_0_1_0.jpg

[MrMiniver]

He's a famous straight porn star. He's been 'famous' for years. I don't follow stuff about him. But in occasionally looking up info on male porn stars, I've come across articles on him. I've never seen any of his films. But he's known for being a more 'boy-next-door' type rather than what males in most straight porn look like.

 

Gman

 

Famous? George Clooney is famous. This guy is "niche" famous at best. I couldn't find anyone last night who had any idea who he was at the restaurant in Manhattan I was at.

[MrMiniver]

I remember that. It's the Lindsay Lohan movie where the porn star was the better actor.

 

I remember that movie. Wasn't as awful as I thought it'd be. I remember him but had no idea what his name was.