When is it friendship and when is it taking advantage?

[+ WilliamM]

It takes some critical thinking and analysis to see individuals as individuals rather than as members of a group

 

I have been taking courses at the University of Pennsylvania for almost ten years, so I have met dozen and dozen of students, and know about 15-20 students quite well after graduation. You are correct, the majority are kind, generous, caring. I must not have made my point very well, it's simply that twenty year old students are younger than they used to be. That may just be at an Ivy League university.

[+ sync]

I'm confused by your reply. Do you think "sexagenerian" refers to someone who is in a sexual relationship?

 

I was confused by that term, as well. I found a definition at Dictionary.com with a slightly different spelling:

 

sexagenarian

 

[sek-suh-juh-nair-ee-uh n]

 

 

• Examples
  
• Word Origin
  

adjective

1.

of the age of 60 years or between 60 and 70 years old.

noun

2.

a sexagenarian person.

[Str8boyluvr]

I'd say it goes both ways. The point may not be that they need it. But tokens of appreciation-which I'm sure you've given them-are always welcome. Paying it forward and paying it back are both important.

 

Gman

I agree. I never said I was "paying it back" like it was an obligation. I said "return the favor" to show my appreciation and gratitude. That aside, paying it back and paying it forward are not mutually exclusive terms. A person can do both.

[rogerG]

The 26-year-old is selfish and self-absorbed. Selfish, self-absorbed people make terrible friends. I'm guessing you deserve better. Shame on him for not letting you see his cock. I won't tolerate that game, especially from a braggart. If a young'in wants my friendship and my time, if he wants to enjoy the benefit of my wallet and kindness, he has to show cock and enjoy showing it! Otherwise, they never get invited back. After all your generosity, the selfish prick should be letting you suck his cock, on demand. That's the way a true straight gentleman should treat an older gay friend, IMO.

[cheyenne10]

Change your telephone number, then change your locks.

[+ WilliamM]

I feel badly for Actor61, partly because I am somewhat in the same situation with a young journalist. He has invited me to stay with him in Brussels or Ukraine. Brussels squat would not work. But, I would consider Ukraine, because his dad joined him there in June. Mostly, they traveled around Ukraine by bus, including Kiev, Odessa and eastern Ukraine; Crimea is no longer a possibility.

 

He knows Ukraine very well, and I have been in other war zones.

 

Actor61: can you stay friends with him by seeing him occasionally, but not at your apartment? Good luck, man.

[+ Gar1eth]

I feel badly for Actor61, partly because I am somewhat in the same situation with a young journalist. He has invited me to stay with him in Brussels or Ukraine. Brussels squat would not work. But, I would consider Ukraine, because his dad joined him there in June. Mostly, they traveled around Ukraine by bus, including Kiev, Odessa and eastern Ukraine; Crimea is no longer a possibility.

 

He knows Ukraine very well, and I have been in other war zones.

 

Actor61: can you stay friends with him by seeing him occasionally, but not at your apartment? Good luck, man.

 

I apologize if I am being dense. But do you expect your journalist to act like actor61's 'friend'?

 

Gman

[+ WilliamM]

I apologize if I am being dense. But do you expect your journalist to act like actor61's 'friend'?

 

Yes, it is a different situation in that I would be staying with him in either Brussels or Ukraine. He stays in hostel and is constantly move from one apartment to another. For me, it would be fine for a few days, but not for a week or ten days. So I would change the situation and suggest traveling, as he did with his dad.

 

I have a different view of Actor61's situation than most people. To me, the problem was being together constantly in his apartment for a week.

 

Finally, I usually post in thread where I have a specific interest in my personal life, as here & the David Forest/Billy Brandt thread. Of course, I also post in thread where I have little or no personal interest. As Joe E. Brown said in "Some Like It Hot, "Nobody's Perfect" or words to that affect.

[+ purplekow]

Change your telephone number, then change your locks.

I can understand the phone by why the hairdo?

[Wolfer]

I can understand the phone by why the hairdo?

Haaaahahaha, you made my day with that off the cuff pun. Thank you.

[Diverdan]

After all of these comments, I am a bit reluctant to add my 2 cents, but can't help myself !! Good riddance. I agree with changing your locks, in case he ever had a key, and I would not answer his phone calls. He is a selfish leach, and knows exactly what he is doing. There are lots of handsome youths who would have appreciated your support, financial and otherwise, and would have reciprocated in some way, and not necessarily sexually. I believe you have been conned and you contributed to it along the way, so what you saw at the end was inevitable. Lick your wounds and move on. There are a lot of young men who will appreciate you along the way, you just have to set the boundaries right from the start. You may have unwillingly encouraged this behavior by not setting boundaries. Chalk it up to experience and move on, and don't have anything to do with this slut in the future.

[Vato Loco]

My hunch: this guy targeted you for manipulation from the get go. Why in the world would someone 40 years younger be waiting for you by your car after class.

Buh-bye.

[cany10011]

This may be an unpopular opinion but if I had a one way monetary relationship with a much younger guy that I was physically attracted to, i'd probably expect some level of intimacy.

[rvwnsd]

I have been taking courses at the University of Pennsylvania for almost ten years, so I have met dozen and dozen of students, and know about 15-20 students quite well after graduation. You are correct, the majority are kind, generous, caring. I must not have made my point very well, it's simply that twenty year old students are younger than they used to be. That may just be at an Ivy League university.

 

I can support that statement. I think people in all age brackets are acting younger than their forebears did in the same age brackets. the difference, of course, is that a 24 year old acting like he is 14 is a lot less charming than a 64 year old acting like he is 54. 51 year olds who act like they are 31 are the most charming of all. Not that I am biased or anything. ;-)

[+ dutchmuch]

DEAR ABBY: I am a 63-year-old man living with a 28-year-old woman. She has three children, ages 2, 6 and 7. They live with us every other weekend. I have fallen in love with them. We are planning on getting married soon, and I want to be sure the kids are secure when I’m gone.

 

I have an erectile dysfunction problem. She says she doesn’t care about sex, but I’m worried she will stray. I was 28 once, and that’s all I thought about.

 

I’m afraid she is marrying me for her own benefit — the house, Social Security and my business. I love her and her children dearly. She says she loves me, but I’m just not sure. Can you help me figure out what to do? — TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE?

http://entertainment.suntimes.com/lifestyles/dear-abby-woman-28-want-marry-63-year-old/

[+ FreshFluff]

I'm leaning towards the taking advantage side. Maybe he interpreted the "You're in good shape" comment as a trial balloon, and his response might have reflected his discomfort at the prospect of a sexual relationship with a man. I'm more bothered by his continued use of the phone at the table when you already asked him not to do that.

 

I'm reminded of the thread I started two years ago. A friend took me on a trip, and we stayed at his friend's house. The friend's friend kept emailing me math/puzzle problems, and I was worried that I'd spend the last week of my summer as a performing seal. People advised me to defer to the host's choices of conversational topics and activities, advice that served me well on that trip and subsequent ones.

[rguer]

I had an older friend late in my college career and for several years thereafter. He was more entertaining than most people I knew my own age. I had no sexual interest in him, and I was much too old for his tastes (I was in my early 20's).

 

So yeah, it can happen.

[Guest]

I'm more bothered by his continued use of the phone at the table when you already asked him not to do that.

 

That's what bothered me the 2nd most (of course the severity depends on the number of times he used the phone after being asked not to). What got to me the most was when the young dancer dumped the host at the last minute for a planned (and purchased) concert. That was so in-your-face rude and callous, I could hardly believe it. I would have lost it right there. The story of not buying the coffee didn't bother me as much. After all, the young man doesn't have much saved, and it looks as if he's out of a job, so I can understand the concern over finances. But the phone, and especially the concert episodes wouldn't have cost the dancer anything. These episodes simply show a complete lack of respect and of empathy.

[Irtwo]

I'm just surprised that a male dancer on a cruise ship is straight.

[coriolis888]

The 26-year-old is selfish and self-absorbed. Selfish, self-absorbed people make terrible friends. I'm guessing you deserve better. Shame on him for not letting you see his cock. I won't tolerate that game, especially from a braggart. If a young'in wants my friendship and my time, if he wants to enjoy the benefit of my wallet and kindness, he has to show cock and enjoy showing it! Otherwise, they never get invited back. After all your generosity, the selfish prick should be letting you suck his cock, on demand. That's the way a true straight gentleman should treat an older gay friend, IMO.

 

 

Seriously?

[Phil_musc]

I swore off reading this thread a few days ago, but it's like an awful movie that somehow you just can't look away from, I came back and read to the end. Jesus God, what is the matter with me? What was I thinking? Have I abdicated all sense of personal responsibility for my own sanity? Nevertheless, a few points for review:

 

You have (or someone else has) and it is just as funny this time as it was then.

 

 

 

Here are my questions.

 

 

I do not believe this to be a generational thing nor do I think you are old fashioned. I think this is an inexperienced person who, for whatever reason, does not know it is polite to give one's host a token of appreciation for his hospitality.

 

Maybe, but it's a stretch to get to this conclusion for me.

 

This was obviously (well, to me, anyway) an attempt at humor on his part.

 

If this is humor then it is a generational thing (aided by a profound lack of sensitivity and intelligence by our young man) and we older folks just won't get it.

 

I see nothing offensive in his statement. He thought your relationship was such that he could make a joking comment in reply to his compliment and you took it in a different way. Are you a doddering old fool? I don't know. I haven't seen you walk or talk. Are you overreacting? I believe so.

 

See above.

 

The joke "you're a rotten guest" is perfectly fine IMO. However, I find absolutely nothing gentle with the statement "You need to be with straight people...". This was a good opportunity for you to take the high road, but you chose instead to get angry with him.

 

No, this was Actor finally seeing the light and sharing his new-found wisdom with his friend.

 

How would you feel if you had invited him back and he said "Look, I need to to be with straight people my own age, not with a 63 year old, gay man."?

 

Given the scenario as laid out, this is a hypothetical that would not have happened. The young man is too smart to cut off the benefits.

 

Perhaps I missed something, but I don't see where you explained anything to him at all, let alone "over and over."

 

I got this from the original post.

 

 

 

I do not believe this to be the case. I believe you have been generous to him and have provided a safe atmosphere for him to hang out in. However, I'm not seeing any evidence of you having seized an opportunity to mentor and coach your guy regarding the way one handles oneself when staying with gracious hosts. Here are a couple of suggestions for next courses of action:

 

1. Apologize for hurting his feelings. What you said is mean and is borne of your own anger, which I think is unfounded.
   
2. Seize the opportunity to teach him something about being a polite member of society: Something to the effect of "Did I show you the vase my friend [insert name of out of town guest here} gave me when he stayed. It was so thoughtful of him to select such a pretty vase to put the flowers in." It doesn't matter whether you received something as a host gift or not or if you were taken to a meal or received a supermarket gift card. Make some shit up! Just introduce the idea that house guests usually do something nice for their hosts.
   
3. Recognize that we all have different ways of hanging out and relaxing: I'm not a fan of his texting while eating meals with you. You mentioned that he slept all day. If he has a job on a cruise ship it is possible that he is tired. What is wrong with that?
   
4. Recognize that all of us, including you, make mistakes and can be obtuse at times: Your friend behaved rudely and you became angry. Are you a bad person for getting angry? Is he a bad person for behaving rudely?
   

Just how enabling of bad, insensitive behavior do you wish to be? Apologize for hurting his feelings? That's funny.

 

Does this sound like an accurate characterization?

 

That's what bothered me the 2nd most (of course the severity depends on the number of times he used the phone after being asked not to). What got to me the most was when the young dancer dumped the host at the last minute for a planned (and purchased) concert. That was so in-your-face rude and callous, I could hardly believe it. I would have lost it right there. The story of not buying the coffee didn't bother me as much. After all, the young man doesn't have much saved, and it looks as if he's out of a job, so I can understand the concern over finances. But the phone, and especially the concert episodes wouldn't have cost the dancer anything. These episodes simply show a complete lack of respect and of empathy.

 

I seem to remember something about $13,000 being mentioned. For someone in his 20's, that's not exactly nothing.

The phone thing is just intolerable unless you're eating in a restaurant that is so noisy that conversation is impossible. The concert tickets are one more nail in the coffin of this relationship.

 

I'm just surprised that a male dancer on a cruise ship is straight.

 

This along with PK's funny line about changing a hair style were the only flashes of humor in four sorry pages of soap opera. Thanks and kudos to those guys.

 

I also did appreciate Roger's snide humor about his expectations with his guest. I think this might actually work as a porn scenario - you know, we start out with our young man fresh off the farm and with a killer dancer body who is ever so straight and would never (fill in the blank). Then somehow or other, through liquor or some other demon assistance, the young man allows his host the pleasure of non-reciprocal oral sex. Eventually he decides to try it for himself (probably on one of his dancer buddies), and one thing eventually leads to another and next thing you know (well, probably about 40 minutes later in the film) he gives up his ass.

[Nebost]

I had an older friend late in my college career and for several years thereafter. He was more entertaining than most people I knew my own age. I had no sexual interest in him, and I was much too old for his tastes (I was in my early 20's).

 

So yeah, it can happen.

 

 

Agree. When I was much younger there were serveral much older gay guys who were sweet on me, and I enjoyed their company because they were both interesting themselves, and very much interested in me and made me the center of attention. To be honest they paid for more than I did, they put more effort into the friendship than I did, but still I did reciprocate and my friendship was genuine. The relationships were platonic, I'm sure they would have wanted sex, but they were nontheless happy just for my company. I still keep in touch with 2 of them 20 years later.

 

Now that I'm much older I've had hot young straight guys that I do platonic things with. I think they like me because I'm fun, I'm a good sounding board for their problems, I'm stable, and yes, I pay for the meals or other activities. I put much more effort into the relationship than they do, but they do show some genuine affection for me.

 

My point is relationships are seldomly equal, and they don't need to be so long as both parties think they are worthwhile.

[corndog]

To be honest they paid for more than I did, ...

...and yes, I pay for the meals or other activities.

In these kinds of friend relationships, I think that it's ok if one person pays (substantially) more than the other. However, an occasional token payment, like coffee now and then, sends a very important message.

[rvwnsd]

I swore off reading this thread a few days ago, but it's like an awful movie that somehow you just can't look away from, I came back and read to the end. Jesus God, what is the matter with me? What was I thinking? Have I abdicated all sense of personal responsibility for my own sanity? ...

 

No, you haven't. This is far better than anything they show on cable.

[rvwnsd]

A little touch of Byron Katie?

 

Yes. I use that technique all the time with the coming out group I facilitate. Usually works wonders.

 

...The OP stated in a follow-up posting that he told his guest that he didn't appreciate it when the guest used the cell phone at the table. The guest continued to do so....

 

OK. I missed that.

 

He did know about it the day before and he did flake out. Hence my wrath.

 

Did you ask him if he wanted to go before buying the tickets? Regardless, he should have been able to pick himself up off the couch and go to the concert with you.

 

...I have a different view of Actor61's situation than most people. To me, the problem was being together constantly in his apartment for a week.

 

+1