Another HIV + escort...

[+ Lucky]

RE: RYAN answers: Another HIV + escort...

 

yawn

[Guest DevonSFescort]

I'm sorry to hear about your friend, Ryan, and that you have had to deal with this with many other friends. I hope your friendship is able to remain strong, that you can be a source of support and strength to him, and that you yourself get the emotional support you need to cope with what is happening to so many of your friends.

 

I agree with you that internalized homophobia contributes to a lot of destructive behaviors that many gay men participate in. However, your friends who barebacked ARE responsible for their behavior, and I don't say that because I'm interested in assigning blame, or because I consider them any less deserving of compassion because they made bad choices. Rather, I say that to give your friends a little credit: if they're responsible for their behavior, that means they have the power in their hands to change it, and to engage in behaviors that are healthier both for them and for others. Yes, it's too late for them to avoid getting HIV, but it's not too late for them to stop wrecking their health and endangering the lives of others (who, in turn, it must be said, are responsible for their own choices).

 

The religious right hates you as much as it hates your friends -- maybe you too have had to struggle with some self-hatred brought on by internalized homophobia -- but with regard to safe sex, at least, it sounds like you have not let self-hatred "do the driving." Nor do your friends have to continue to let self-hatred make the decisions for them. Many people have risen to their greatest heights in life after hitting rock bottom or getting very close to it. I bring all this up because I hope that if you can muster up some belief in your friends' ability to turn their lives around, that that belief will be contagious, so to speak, and that you will "infect" them with the right kind of positivity that will help them to take things to another direction.

 

It isn't easy, though; there's no doubt about that, and I'm sorry you didn't get more support on this thread. It saddens me to think that news of "another HIV+ escort" is nothing more to some people than an occasion to critique how you bump travel posts, what your profile on AOL says, or what you're like as an escort. For what it's worth, I think news of "another escort's" seroconversion and continued harmful behavior is sad and important enough to be worthy of either sympathetic responses or respectful silences. It's a sad day when people on an escort website second-guess a escort's motives for venting about a friend's self-destruction. You're right that they are wrong to make you the issue. I hope you fewer numb, jaded responses elsewhere than you found here, and more supportive ones instead.

[Guest HOTnySTUDRYAN]

My dear boy, Can I buy you a drink? - RYAN

[Guest DevonSFescort]

Only if I get to buy the next round. :-)

[Boston Guy]

Lucky:

 

You've been around here a long time and I respect you. I often agree with you. But not this time.

 

Because I do respect you, I'm going to try to answer your questions. But, in responding to your post, let me begin at the end instead of the beginning. You wrote:

 

>Just as many do attack escorts for posting as you state, there

>are others who will tolerate any sort of babble especially if

>they think the escort is "hot." I am not saying that applies

>to you, BG, but I do wonder what brings you to the point where

>I am expected in your mind to apologize to a person with so

>little compassion and so little understanding of the "world"

>of HIV.

 

Two very different points, of which the first is by far the easier to respond to. I don't tend to tolerate "babble" from anyone and often pass these kinds of posts by. I certainly wouldn't write a note supporting a babbling poster unless I felt he was being very aggrieved in an unfair kind of way. But I don't regard what Ryan wrote when he started this thread as babble.

 

Second, you ask what brings me to this point. I guess the answer is that there are so many things that contribute that it's hard for me to enumerate them. My first friend died of AIDS in 1983. I've lost many dozens of friends. I've lost most of the good gay friends that made up my circle of friends in the early 1980s, when I was coming out. I've lost some of the best friends I've ever had the pleasure to know and love. They all died of AIDS. So did my former lover.

 

I've sat in countless hospital rooms, watched my friends curled up in fetal positions, told families who didn't know what was wrong with their son or brother that he had AIDS, helped my friends cope with failing bodies, tried to cheer them up when they were inconsolable, walked proudly down the street with friends who had KS lesions all over their faces, even when they couldn't hide their own shame. I've spent so much time at hospitals that some doctors and nurses became friends. I've attended too many memorial sessions.

 

For 20 years, I've dealt with the consequences of HIV, even though I, through some miracle, remain negative. And, yes, I've suffered survivor's guilt from time to time. I've cried until crying doesn't seem worthwhile, I've seen enough death for two lifetimes and still many of my friends are positive and some are starting to not do so well. I almost cannot bear to listen to "Empty Chairs at Empty Tables."

 

And now, 20 years on, a new epidemic is starting again, in the young. Young men are practicing unsafe sex and becoming positive. They even have seroconversion parties. And I want to scream "No!" at them and somehow, somehow let them see a little of the immense pain I've seen. The handsome, sexy, hot guys cut down and turned into shells of their former selves.

 

They think that AIDS is just another chronic disease and that you can just pop a few pills and be ok. I wish they could talk to my friends who living with HIV -- yes, living. If they were to be offered a chance to be free of HIV, each and every one of them would grab it, instantly, without hesitation. HIV rules their lives in some ways and the drugs often have unpleasant side effects. And we don't know how long the drugs will last.

 

So, Lucky, how did I get to be at this point? Through sheer frustration as I watch another generation of young men put themselves at risk for a disease that I hate, a disease that has taken so much from me and my friends.

 

>For starters, ryan states that the escort has "descended"

>into the "world" of barebacking, HIV, and crystal meth, as

>though they were all the same, and as though they are of equal

>"descent." He shows not a drop of compassion for his

>"friend."

 

I don't agree that he shows "not a drop of compassion". He describes his friend as "beautiful and a very sweet person." When I read what he wrote, I felt anguish in his voice. I felt the kind of pain and frustration that I, too, have felt when yet another friend would become sick.

 

>People do not "descend" into a "world" of HIV and you should

>know that.

 

And, sad as it is to say, barebacking and drug use -- especially crystal meth -- and HIV ARE related these days. They are. Guys who bareback are much more likely to become HIV+. And NPR ran a short feature not two weeks ago describing how increased use of drugs in general and crystal meth in particular is leading to increased incidence of STDs -- including AIDS. So when Ryan describes a "world of barebacking, HIV and crystal meth", he is describing -- accurately -- a world that he sees. And it's a world that exists, especially for the young. Lucky, you may not see it. But it exists. And I don't think that when he talks -- in anguish -- of his friend "descending" into this world, he's taking a huge leap with the English language.

 

>Since he doesn't name the escort so that we can all

>avoid him, just what is the purpose of his post other than to

>let us know how good he is for not "descending"?

 

What is the point??? What is the point???

 

Young guys are out there having unsafe sex, not listening to what happened to guys before them. The incidence of HIV is climbing in this country again, mostly in younger age groups -- but not entirely. What is the point of messages like Ryan's? To keep warning people, to keep repeating the message, over and over and over. You're old enough: you should remember the 80s. Safe sex messages were EVERYWHERE, printed again and again and again. Every place people could get them printed, they did, even on buses and subways. And why? Because people have to hear it over and over and over so that when that sudden moment of passion comes, they have enough strength and presence of mind to say "no" to unsafe sex.

 

Ryan's message was another warning to people. And I think it was especially valuable precisely because it came from a young escort.

 

It wasn't necessary for him to out the other escort. I still don't believe in revealing other people's HIV status (except in egregious cases). But the warning he passed on was welcome and well-intentioned. And, as I stated above, when I read it I did so listening to what seemed to me to be the anguish of someone distraught over what was happening to a friend.

 

>Given many of his other posts here he strikes me as a selfish

>and immature man. If we are to encourage escorts to post,

>which I have often done, shouldn't they at least be expected

>to stand by what they say or take the heat when they are

>wrong?

 

I don't think it's right to take the approach that someone is a selfish and immature man because of previous posts and then just assume that anything they post must necessarily be selfish or immature. Each of the things that each of us write should be capable of being judged on its own. We are all capable of growth.

 

Further, it doesn't seem to me that he uses the Message Center in any way all that different than other escorts. And if he bumps up his messages in the Travel Section, so what? That's what it's for.

 

And finally, I think everyone here should be willing to stand by what they say and, as you state, "take the heat." However, it's an unequal battle -- and, consequently, an unfair one -- in a couple of different ways. First, most escorts are young guys just starting out. Most clients have several more decades of experience and have learned how to use words and logic to their advantage. If the average 50-year old cannot outwrite the average 20-year old, shame on him. More importantly, however, if an escort take up the challenges that are often little more than bait and lets himself be drawn into an argument, he has little to gain and much to lose.

 

If the client ends up looking foolish or angry, who cares? In a few days, people will tend to forget it. However, if the escorts ends up that way, it can definitely affect his income; we've seen any number of people write things here like "well, I was going to hire this guy but won't now." So an escort can win an argument or lose income. It doesn't seem like much of a choice to me and I always counsel them not to be drawn into personal arguments here.

 

And, in a sense, that's a damn shame. Escorts bring a very, very different perspective to this place than many of us do. In the early days of M4M, many posted here frequently and I found what they had to say interesting, often enlightening and sometimes extremely thought-provoking. But, one by one, they've gone away as they've gotten burned or realized that there was no benefit to them for posting here.

 

So, yes, Lucky, I do respect you. But I think you misread what Ryan wrote, applied your dislike of him to your view of his message, and then posted a hostile response. Ironic, since the intention of his message, in my view, was to post the equivalent of a public service warning about HIV.

 

And I still think you owe him an apology.

 

BG

[Boston Guy]

Ryan,

 

Having just read Devon's typically-thoughtful post, I realized that I, too, became so caught up in my anger over the responses to this thread that I failed to respond to you. I apologize.

 

It's awful to have a friend get sick. People rationalize HIV in lots of ways these days, but getting HIV is still getting a disease, one that at its best right now is chronic and lifelong. I'm sorry for your friend.

 

And I'm sorry for the pain that you, too, are feeling.

 

BG

[+ Lucky]

First of all, BG, I appreciate the effort you have made to present your point of view to me and I value your respect. I agree that barebacking and crystal meth use can (and increasingly do) lead to HIV infection. The way I read ryan's post is that the three are equal places in a hell into which one descends.

Now we both know from our experience that HIV is a disease that has caused untold grief to those of us who have survived from the early 80's. Yet those who did get HIV are being equated here with those who bareback and use crystal regardless of how they contracted the disease. And, we are told that of the evils listed, HIV is certainly one of them.

Yet we know that none of our compatriots who acquired HIV did anything that at the time was thought to be reckless. (Well, maybe a few.)

So perhaps it is the age difference that caused me to chafe at ryan's picture of HIV in today's gay world. I don't see my friends who got HIV as having descended into some kind of evil world. Ryan does, but he may be closer to today's truth than I am.

My feeling is that there is a tremendous prejudice in the gay community towards people who have HIV. The older guys are burnt out in caring for those infected and just want it to go away. The younger guys see it as a product of one's own misbehavior. And almost no one wants to have sex with someone who has HIV even though there are many safe ways to do so.

SO when Ryan wrote his hand-wringing post and contrasted his friend's behavior with his own, I saw it as self-serving. If I missed the level of compassion he has for his friend, then I do apologize. I am still as confused as others who responded here as to what he hoped to accomplish by posting this insofar as the subject has been discussed ad nauseam. But, that is his right and I of course was not obligated to read it. If his intentions were misread by me, then I again apologize. But my distaste for the way he wrote about this matter- the air of sensationalism and hand-wringing gossip) still stands.

[Boston Guy]

Lucky:

 

Thanks.

 

BG

[Guest DevonSFescort]

>I agree that barebacking and crystal meth use can (and

>increasingly do) lead to HIV infection. The way I read ryan's

>post is that the three are equal places in a hell into which

>one descends.

 

Lucky, I think that reading says more about what you brought to Ryan's post (an ongoing issue you have with the discourse around and/or representation of HIV+ people in the public conversation) than it does about what he wrote. To understand why I'm saying that, see below:

 

>Now we both know from our experience that HIV is a disease

>that has caused untold grief to those of us who have survived

>from the early 80's. Yet those who did get HIV are being

>equated here with those who bareback and use crystal

>regardless of how they contracted the disease.

 

We aren't told any such thing. Ryan didn't even bring the 80's up, or posit a comparison between people who got infected twenty years ago and people who are getting infected today. You did.

 

>And, we are told that of the evils listed, HIV is certainly one of them.

 

By whom? Ryan didn't so much as bring up the concept of evil, let alone say that HIV is an "evil" (and certainly not, by all but the most imaginative of not-so-logical extensions, say that HIV+ people were evil people.)

 

>Yet we know that none of our compatriots who acquired HIV did

>anything that at the time was thought to be reckless.

 

I'm afraid I don't "know" any such thing, not least because I wasn't there. Many gay men who were there, however, have shared with me stories of their most typical nights at the bathhouse that have made my most decadent moments look like holding hands at at PG-13 movie. To be sure, this is because I came of age when HIV rates were nearing their peak and people were still arguing about whether you could get it from kissing. But although I agree that your compatriots could not have known that what they were doing was spreading a deadly new virus, nor, to my mind, could the considerable numbers of them who were doing poppers and the preferred drugs of their era all night in bathhouses, having unprotected anal sex with half a dozen men or more in a sleepless night, have been taking their health very seriously -- especially if they were doing so in the early eighties, when "gay cancer" scares were already very much in the news, rather than the late seventies. (And I am not saying that everyone in those days got HIV that way, only that enough gay men were living wildly enough to faciliate the stunningly swift spread of HIV, amongst themselves, and inevitably to gay men with far less risk-filled sex lives.) Though Ryan didn't draw any parallel between the early and latter-day cases of HIV infection, it occurs to me that his comments that his friends' risky behavior sprang from internalized homophobia resonate when I think about the stories more older gay men than I can count have related to me. If you're saying that barebacking today is more knowingly reckless than it was twenty-five years ago, I agree. But let's not pretend that very little reckless behavior was going on twenty-five years ago, or that people couldn't have known they were being reckless. Even if a cure from AIDS is discovered in the next twenty-four hours and is a fait accompli by the end of the year, I hope gay men don't go back to the relentless, promiscuous barebacking of the "glory days." The signs we're seeing today don't, unfortunately, do much to shore up my grounds for hope.

 

>So perhaps it is the age difference that caused me to chafe at

>ryan's picture of HIV in today's gay world. I don't see my

>friends who got HIV as having descended into some kind of evil

>world. Ryan does, but he may be closer to today's truth than I

>am.

 

I think you're grading papers, so to speak, instead of just listening to Ryan. Maybe, just maybe, he was upset enough about what he sees happening with his friends that he didn't stop to use wording of the most razor-sharp precision. Have you noticed that sometimes people do that when they're upset about something as significant as their friends' self-destructive behavior and its unhappy consequences?

 

Fair enough, there is no "world of HIV." But despite his choice of words it seems clear enough that what Ryan is describing is a very real social milieu, one in which meth addiction, barebacking, and high rates of new HIV infections are the most striking phenomena, and very often in tandem. No, not everyone who gets HIV even today is part of this milieu, and not everyone who uses crystal becomes addicted to it or decides to bareback, and yes, there are probably a few new cases that resulted from condom failure or having oral sex while one had a sore in one's mouth or bleeding gums, not from barebacking. But that doesn't mean the social milieu he describes isn't a real one, or that entry into that milieu couldn't be described as a descent.

 

>My feeling is that there is a tremendous prejudice in the gay

>community towards people who have HIV. The older guys are

>burnt out in caring for those infected and just want it to go

>away. The younger guys see it as a product of one's own

>misbehavior.

 

While what you are saying is true, it is also, I daresay, less true today than at any point in HIV's too-long history, with the possible exception of the several years just before reports emerged of a new wave of HIV infections after years of decline.

 

>And almost no one wants to have sex with someone

>who has HIV even though there are many safe ways to do so.

 

This is simply not true, if only because there are too many sexually active HIV-positive men, ESPECIALLY where you live and where I live. But I also think there are many more HIV-negative men today who are willing to have sex with poz guys today than there were during the eighties. I certainly have my share of poz friends who are upfront about their HIV-status and are getting plenty of play, although it's true that sometimes they do get rejected by someone whose perceptions and choices about acceptable risk are different from yours.

 

>SO when Ryan wrote his hand-wringing post and contrasted his

>friend's behavior with his own, I saw it as self-serving.

 

I hope someone can be forgiven for wringing his hands about the phenomena Ryan is describing, especially when it involves people one is close to. And I don't understand how you can believe that launching a thread that raises the specter of chronic illness is any kind of technique for drumming up business as a sex worker. What's self-serving, with all due respect, is to use a post someone wrote when he was upset about his friends seroconverting and carrying on with their dangerous behavior and use it as an occasion to trash that person and to try and reintroduce your own themes that, one could easily argue, have been discussed ad nauseum.

 

>But my distaste for the way he wrote about this matter- the air of

>sensationalism and hand-wringing gossip) still stands.

 

Well, my distaste for they way you brought your own agenda to what Ryan actually wrote still stands, as does my long-standing distate for watered-down apologies and false accusations of gossip (Ryan didn't name any names). So if it's any consolation, you're not the only one with a bad taste in his mouth.

[+ Lucky]

Devon, whose "agenda" (I prefer the word experience) should I bring to a discussion other than my own? I think I have explained that I realize Ryan is coming at this from a different point of view than me. Other than what I have already posted to Boston Guy, I can't see that anything more can be said.

Ultimately, hooboy has settled on the real truth here. Assume everyone you have sex with is HIV poz.

[Guest DevonSFescort]

>Devon, whose "agenda" (I prefer the word experience) should I

>bring to a discussion other than my own?

 

We're not using the words "agenda" and "experience" to refer to the same thing here. I think you're understandably hurt that some HIV-negative guys prefer not to have even protected sex with HIV-positive guys (the reverse, as it happens, is also frequently true), and this is a sore point you have brought up before, as you have every right and some valid reasons to do. But when you attribute viewpoints to Ryan on subjects that he didn't even bring up, or that he explicitly stated he didn't hold (see his response to honcho), I don't call that bringing experience to a discussion, I call it bringing an agenda.

 

>I think I have explained that I realize Ryan is coming at this from >a different point of view than me.

 

You've also taken pains to characterize that point of view as a nauseating -- not to mention boring ("yawn") one, expressed purely for self-promotional purposes. When asked twice by Boston Guy to apologize, you resisted the first time and then the second time you kinda sorta apologized, but laced your apology with defiance and an accusation of gossip, when Ryan clearly did not gossip about anyone in this thread.

 

>Other than what I have already posted to Boston Guy, I can't see >that anything more can be said.

 

Well, I did, which is why I responded to what you said to Boston Guy,

taking issue specifically with statements you made in that very post. You're under no obligation to respond to any of my arguments, of course, but I can think of one more thing that could be said on your part: a straightforward, undiluted apology to Ryan, with no footnotes or "neverthelesses," for attributing cynical motives to his post and mischaracterizing his statements about various issues, some of which he didn't even bring up. I know he's only an escort, but don't you think he's entitled to that much?

 

>Ultimately, hooboy has settled on the real truth here. Assume

>everyone you have sex with is HIV poz.

 

That is a very real truth indeed, and now is as good a time as any to repeat it. It's also unrelated to the issues I raised with how you've treated Ryan in this thread.

[HooBoy]

Hmmm. I just thought there was prejudice in the gay community against older guys...and escorts.

__

 

The above written as a regular guy, not the owner of a website and has no official meaning, just unofficial BS.)

__

 

--garbo the hoo

[Guest HOTnySTUDRYAN]

Hi,

 

Just to let Lucky off the hook, I seek no apology from him. He is on his own journey, has nothing to do with me. He wasn't the only one who spewed and projected hate anyway.

 

I was certainly never really hurt by the hate speech, or that of the other people who don't know me, because I knew my intentions, what was in my heart and what was in my head. And in terms of business, there is no chance what anyone says on these message boards will effect my business anyway, hate to break it you. It's one reason why the idea that me bringing me up a discussion about HIV and escorting is so obviously NOT an advertisment...hahaha, how ridiculous...really.

 

Devon has articulated the issues quite eloquently and at length. Thank you. Perhaps some people CAN read minds. Hahaha...

 

One thing I've found quite interesting is how little respect for escorts some veteran members on these boards have -- I wonder why that is. Hooboy has noticed this, Boston guy noticed this, Devon noticed, and the silent majority who emailed and called me in support notices this...

 

These lonely haters have sometimes said "I wouldn't hire" this escort or that escort because of their posts or because some anonymous poster trashes that particular escort. And to be honest, when I read these hate-filled posts saying they wouldn't hire me or them, my first response is: thank God. When these haters speak this way about escorts, they reveal a value system and way of treating others/escorts that wouldn't jive with me...at all.

 

I expect genuine respect from my clients. And when I get this, which is 99% of the time, I treat my clients like the KINGS they are (ok, unless they want me to humiliate them in role playing, ahahahaha, then I provide that service.).

 

There are many people on these messages boards I'd like to buy a drink!

 

But then I just started thinking about my friend, who I initially wrote the post about, the HIV + escort who is abusing himself to death. And I think...he is a soldier...in a war still being fought...for all of our freedom and equality...One day soon, when this war is won, far fewer gay people will be killing themselves. This is what I long for, and literally this is what I fight for in my activism (my other life). That is more important, far more important, than how I feel about any bitterness eminating from any unhappy veteran message board posters. In the big scheme of it all, who the hell cares about these message boards? I mean really...

 

You want to know what really matters?!?!?!? The email I got a few hours after I wrote the initial post about HIV, drugs , escorting and degrading sex...from another escort...who said he hadn't really thought about fisting and pissing and drug use and degrading sex as homophobia before...and that he does a lot of that stuff...and is seriously rethinking it...and that my post made him cry thinking about it...and his life...

 

THAT is what matters, and THAT is part of why I wrote my frigging post!!!!!

 

I salute him for having the COURAGE to look at himself -- his life, his actions, his values. It might save his life. Here's to you my friend! I'll buy you a drink any day. (Oh, I don't really drink that much, by the way...hahaha...a little weed perhaps? hahaha)

 

- RYAN

 

 

:9

[+ Lucky]

If your friends at your local tavern want to write a review about their experience with Ryan, they may do so. Otherwise, it is just hearsay gossip from some barfly's and I would prefer to avoid that here. Thank you.

 

 

And Devon, you who are so quick to join forces with a guy who labels me a "hater"

 

And here you go again, speading gossip you hear from someone else...

 

If you want to do that, take it to the boards that allow that sort of thing.

[Rick Munroe]

>The email I got a

>few hours after I wrote the initial post about HIV, drugs ,

>escorting and degrading sex...from another escort...who said

>he hadn't really thought about fisting and pissing and drug

>use and degrading sex as homophobia before...and that he does

>a lot of that stuff...and is seriously rethinking it...and

>that my post made him cry thinking about it...and his life...

>

>

>THAT is what matters, and THAT is part of why I wrote my

>frigging post!!!!!

>

>I salute him for having the COURAGE to look at himself -- his

>life, his actions, his values. It might save his life.

 

Ryan, this is the second time in this thread that you've equated humiliation and S&M to a homophobic death wish. I completely disgree. Dirty or degrading talk during sex is roleplay. Roleplay is healthy; just ask Dr. Ruth. As for fisting and water sports, while I don't personally get into those activities, I think it's ridiculous to assert that someone who does wants to or will die as a result. And many, many straight people get off on rough sex, bondage, water sports, humiliating talk, etc., so it's also ridiculous to call it internalized homophobia. Yes, real rape and violence is wrong and bad, but there is absolutely nothing wrong or dangerous about fantasy and roleplay, as long as safe sex is involved. As a matter of fact, fantasies are often what help to make safer sex more fun.

 

Devon often writes in his diary and in his posts that he loves being manhandled, gutpunched, thrown into a wall, having his tits worked hard until they're sore. Are you saying that Devon really hates himself and wants to die as a result of these fetishes, and that he suffers from internalized homophobia? I can't speak for Devon but I hardly think that's the case.

 

You disparagingly mention "the Christian types" but your point here (that vanilla sex is the only good and pure and healthy way to have sex) is just as judgmental as anything I've heard from Jerry Falwell. Of course barebacking is stupid and I never do it, nor do I do drugs, but to equate barebacking and crystal addiction with fetishes such as humiliation or piss or S&M is just wrong.

[+ Lucky]

Is it gossip or fact Hooboy? After all, there is a lot of gossip going on about you, but if it is fact, why don't you make that crystal clear to all of us?

[HooBoy]

Trite Alert

 

Dear Lucky,

 

You flatter me.

 

When I'm good, I'm good. When I'm bad, I'm better.

 

Keep on talking about me, honeybunch - Frankly my dear, I don't give a shit. (Too much Pepto Bismol, I think)

__

 

The above written as a regular guy, not the owner of a website and has no official meaning, just unofficial BS.)

__

 

--garbo the hoo

[Barry]

>Is it gossip or fact Hooboy? After all, there is a lot of

>gossip going on about you, but if it is fact, why don't you

>make that crystal clear to all of us?

 

In post #31 you wrote "But my distaste for the way he wrote about this matter- the air of sensationalism and hand-wringing gossip) still stands."

 

So is it only "hand-wringing gossip" you find distasteful?

 

Barry

[+ Lucky]

No, it is Hooboy's one-sided effort to protect the rogue escorts that he so admires.

[Guest DevonSFescort]

>And Devon, you who are so quick to join forces with a guy who

>labels me a "hater"

 

I haven't "joined forces" with anyone in this thread. I don't know Ryan and therefore, unlike you, don't feel qualified to vouch for what he's like as a person or as an escort. I do, however, look forward to meeting him and taking him up on that offer of a drink (or a toke or two, if he prefers).

 

I am, on the other hand, very quick indeed to expose the dishonest, cowardly tactics employed by anonymous, chicken-shit posters who seek to do whatever damage they can to the reputation of an escort who dares cross them by having (gasp!) an opinion that departs from whatever party line said chicken-shit posters adhere to. (That so few people read or participate in this board, as Ryan and others have pointed out, does not make such sleaze anything close to okay.) Anyone who tries such thuggish tactics when I'm around can look forward to experiencing the same humiliation that prompted you to try spreading gossip about me rather than refute even one of my points, which, unsurprisingly, you can't. I realize there's nothing more infuriating to people like you than being called on your bullshit by a whore, but life's tough.

 

Look on the bright side, though. Since you lack the balls and basic integrity to level the playing field by revealing your professional identity on this board, nothing anyone says here can be used to damage your livelihood. It must disappoint you to no end that HooBoy nixed your attempt to damage mine, and in a way it disappoints me, too, since I always enjoy hearing what creative rumors people have managed to concoct about me, and am always touched that they went to the trouble. I'll never forget the time I was informed, "on very good authority," of course, that I had once been arrested -- while working for an escort agency! -- two experiences I've never had. Based on your extremely extensive posting industry, however, I doubt you came up with anything that interesting.

[HooBoy]

Dear Lucky,

 

"Bitter, your table for one is ready."

__

 

The above written as a regular guy, not the owner of a website and has no official meaning, just unofficial BS.)

__

 

--garbo the hoo

[Barry]

>No, it is Hooboy's one-sided effort to protect the rogue

>escorts that he so admires.

 

 

Well I'll just let stand what I pointed out previously.

 

Now exactly what is a "rogue escort" and how are they identified?

 

Barry

[Guest DevonSFescort]

>No, it is Hooboy's one-sided effort to protect the rogue

>escorts that he so admires.

 

What's one-sided are your attempts to damage escorts' reputations without giving us the opportunity to damage yours. Why not do what duke37 does and share with us all your professional identity?

[Guest DevonSFescort]

>Devon often writes in his diary and in his posts that he loves

>being manhandled, gutpunched, thrown into a wall, having his

>tits worked hard until they're sore.

 

You left out dinners by candlelight and long walks on the beach. :*

[VaHawk]

>Yes, Virginia, you can have fun and live a long life!

 

Like being a native Virginian, I'm going to let your patronizing bullshit go uncommented upon???

 

>It's sad, I think behavior such as his only comes from

>self-hatred...Is it his fault? No, it's the fault of

>homophobes, mostly the Christian types who want to put bigotry

>in our Constitution. Blood is on their hands.

 

I just LOVE how the AIDS finger pointing has come full circle! From those far right Christians who called it a curse from God upon those homosexuals to NOW it is the fault of those very Christians?

 

As a Christian, I AM SICK AND TIRED, of all the slander and out and out bullshit, that we are subjugated to on this site! Not all Christians, myself included, are HOMOPHOBES! AND ANYONE who would state that a self-hatred, suicidal, non-safe sexual practice is the result of Christianity, is a TOTAL ASSHOLE!