Another HIV + escort...

[Guest HOTnySTUDRYAN]

It isn't always the words that are said, tone is important too. You weren't there. It was outrageous, really.

 

You can't argue with my experience of that event.

 

But I guess I have to concede that it's possible someone self-respecting could get turned on by being abused and insulted by someone...Can't figure this out logically, but I don't claim to know it all! - RYAN

[Guest HOTnySTUDRYAN]

Well although you are also wrong about what is in my head and heart, you get 4 stars for stating your opinion civilly and without all the personal insults that are coming from certain other veteran posters -- so much nastiness HooBoy has even had to delete some of it because it so CLEARLY violates the forum rules.

 

Thank you very much, Tampa Yankee, and I might add that I hear you are a decent guy from a mutual friend of ours.. - RYAN

[Guest HOTnySTUDRYAN]

My friend, you didn't see all the vicious personal attacks that many members wrote that HooBoy had to come on a delete because they so clearly violated fourm rules. That's , I think, why you're confused by Devon and my characterization of some veteran posters as spewers of hate and made-up gossip. - RYAN

[Doug69]

RE: Ryan's FINAL post, he needs to return to REAL life now.

 

RYAN (and DEVON) - I know you said this was your final post, but then I see that you wrote 3 more posts thereafter, so I won't let your proclamation deter me from responding. Besides, you certainly put in a lot of effort, or at least a lot of time, in responding, and it was a thoughtful response which merits a reply, even if you have no intention of replying further.

 

Several points:

 

(1) I think it's interesting that you (not entirely unjustifiably) lament the fact that posters here who don't know you and never met you spoke with such passionate negativity about what you wrote, and that even worse (in your view), they did so by having to speculate about your motives and intentions and make guesses about what you were thinking and doing when you wrote your post.

 

And yet, in the very same post where you criticize these posters for spewing such negativity and guessing about what you were thinking, you do exactly the same thing when speaking of them. You decree that all of the people who vehemently criticized your post are themselves vicious, psycopahtic haters who are lonely, extremely bitter, sick with misery, and are pitiful losers sitting at home with too much time on their hands who use their computer to spew hatred at themselves.

 

By saying all of this, aren't you doing exactly what you are purporting to criticize? I mean - what's the difference between: (a) saying that your post was a disgnenuous effort to promote yourself and was really motivated by your desire to attract attention and clients and (b) saying, as you did, that those posters who wrote posts containing viewpoint (a) are disingenuous sickos whose true motivations are to spew hatred at others as a means of relieving their own failed lives of the dark, dank prison in which they wallow?

 

Couldn't it be that the reason why people wrote these posts is becasue they were truly offended and sickened by what you wrote? As I made clear, I thought prior to your response to me that you were exploting the HIV issue as a means of making yourself look good - something which you yourself agreed would be a heinous thing to do.

 

So, even if it's true, as you claim, that those who thougt that this is what you were doing misinterpreted your intentions, how does this enable you to know that they did so because they hate themselves rather than because they hate what they believed you wrote? Aren't you bestowing on yourself the same powers of psychic intuition as you accused those of bestowing on themselves by daring to think that they could interpret the motives behind your post?

 

(2) I understand your points about how ludicrous it would be to talk about HIV in order to promote yourself as an escort and that you don't need to promote yourself because you already have too many clients. But you have to understand that your behavior here is not reflective of an escort who has no interest in promoting yourself, as you very frequently and aggressively advertise in the Travel Section and you post here NOT under some alternative name, but under your escort name, complete with links to your escort advertising page.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with escorts posting here in order to attract clients. But that is something that you clearly do, and it's a little silly to object when others think that part of what is motivating you in posting is to attract clients. This is a site filled with escorts and clients; it's a site that generates lots of business for escorts; and I hardly think that it's unreasonable to believe that an escort is motivated, at least in part, by a desire to attract clients when posting here.

 

(3) I don't think that talking about HIV is nearly as ridiculous as a means for advertising your services as you (and Devon) suggest. In fact, if you look at escort ads on AOL or anywhere else, you will constant, prominent references to the escort's HIV status, at least if it's purportedly negative.

 

As this forum conclusively reveals, there are tons and tons of clients who are amazingly and irrationaly paranoid about HIV when it comes to hiring escorts. They are petrified that they will hire an escort who is HIV-positive (which is SO STUPID, since one should assume every escort and every non-monogomous sex partner is HIV-positive, but that's what they think). So screaming I AM HIV-NEGATIVE AND SUPER CLEAN AND D/D FREE is absoultely an effective way for escorts to attract clients. The proof is that lots of escorts DO exactly then when advertising, so it's hardly unreasonable to have thought that you were doing the same thing by proclaiming here - not for the first time - that you, UNLIKE YOUR ESCORT-FRIENDS, were HIV-negative and drug-free.

 

(4) I think the reaction that you and Devon are having does reflect one odd thing about this forum. It is true that escorts who participate here are not anonymous, whereas non-escort participants are. Thus, escorts who become the target of angry, negative, insulting posts have more at stake than non-escorts, who can (or at least should) easily shrug off such attacks.

 

But the choice you made is to post and engage in discussion over controversial issues as an escort. I know of other escorts who post here under their escort name when it comes to innocuous, or humorous, or advertising-related matters, but post under a different non-escort name when engaging in political or attack posts or otherwise saying things that they think won't help their business.

 

Both you and Devon post here under your escort name and (more so Devon) do so by frequently engaging in discussions and expressing opinions which are likely to alienate a few or lots of people. That, I suppose, is commendable, but having chosen to dive into the message center, you can't then expect special treatment by claiming that it's unfair to say mean things about you because it can hurt your business. Almost every poster here, at one time or another, has something mean said about them. Escorts shouldn't expect to be exempted from this treatment simply becasue they are escorts.

 

(5) This Board, and many on the Internet like it, does generate a lot of intensity and passion. I think that's good and healthy and interesting. I don't think that anyone was saying what they said about your post because they wanted to harm you. I think they were saying it because they interpreted it as I described earlier - an interpretation of what you were saying which even you acknowledged would be disgusting. People here have strong opinions and they express them strongly. I don't think that makes the participants here lunatics or haters. To the contrary, I think it's what makes this place real and raw and worthwhile.

 

(6) Having read a lot more from you in this thread beyond your standard posts about how there are so many escorts who are HIV-positive but you're not, I will acknowledge that there very well may have been some misunderstanding, including on my part, about what really motivated you to write that post. But given that relatively large number of people who wrote to say that they agreed with Lucky - including many who do not normally jump into these frays and who never have a bad word to say about anyone - you may want to consider why it is - i.e., what it is about what YOU said and how you expressed it - that enabled this misunderstanding to arise.

 

It's easy and fulfilling to rant about how everyone who criticized you is a pathetic sicko, but it's probably not as profitable as wondering what it is that you did that provoked this sort of reaction.

[Guest DevonSFescort]

RE: Ryan's FINAL post, he needs to return to REAL life now.

 

Doug, thank you for your typically thoughtful and provocative post. I'll probably have more to say later but for now want to address what I see as the most important point you made.

 

>Both you and Devon post here under your escort name and (more

>so Devon) do so by frequently engaging in discussions and

>expressing opinions which are likely to alienate a few or lots

>of people. That, I suppose, is commendable, but having chosen

>to dive into the message center, you can't then expect special

>treatment by claiming that it's unfair to say mean things

>about you because it can hurt your business. Almost every

>poster here, at one time or another, has something mean said

>about them. Escorts shouldn't expect to be exempted from this

>treatment simply becasue they are escorts.

 

I agree completely that posting here under my professional identity carries risks which I freely chose to accept and that I don't deserve any kind of special treatment because I come here as a public figure of sorts. Furthermore, I post my ideas both here and elsewhere because I WANT them to be engaged, whether that engagement takes the form of agreement, disagreement, piggybacking of ideas, etc. Even during my youthful flirtations with socialism I have always believed in the free marketplace of ideas. You've said a few "mean" things to me and I not only never held them against you, in most cases I cracked up. You've even blatantly distorted the meaning of certain things I've said in order to make a point, and while I don't hold such "straw man" rhetorical tactics in nearly the same regard I hold the way you write when you're being thoroughly honest, I've never objected to that either, though I do usually correct you with regard to what I said.

 

So while you, like Lucky et al, have at times misrepresented what I said and then used that misrepresentation to cast aspersions on my motives (saying I must favor affirmative action because I secretly believe people of color are inferior and want to placate my white liberal fears), what you have never done are the following contemptible things:

 

1) Link whatever misrepresentation you're making to my status as an escort.

 

2) Punish me for disagreeing with you by making me the issue rather than the topic under discussion, and, worse, posting gossip you claim you heard about me.

 

3) Attempt to stifle debate by denouncing my opinions as offensive to all potential clients, repeating ad infinitum your intention not to hire me (the only purpose of which, it seems to me, is to discourage others from hiring me).

 

4) Construct a horribly unflattering picture of what I must be like as a service provider, based not on your direct experience with my services, but on your outrage at my audacity to say something that you disagreed with, maybe even found offensive.

 

None of the above such kinds of "special treatment" should be given to escorts who post under their professional identities. And out of all the clients who post here, only duke37 -- also known by his real name of Jeff -- a man I have met, like, and thoroughly respect, dares risk that kind of special treatment. I don't think you'd sit here condoning the kind of behavior I'm describing (and I'm partly thinking not just of this thread but my confrontations in the Taking Control of Escort Rates and Ecce Ho threads) if it were directed at him -- if, because something he said pissed someone off, they started claiming his comics were overpriced, his inventory sucked, spread gossip about what goes on in his store or whatever. (Why do you think VaHawk had such a shitfit when I invited Lucky to post his professional identity?) You shouldn't condone it just because it's happening to hookers, either.

[Guest HOTnySTUDRYAN]

RE: Ryan's FINAL post, he needs to return to REAL life now.

 

Thoughtful and civil responses deserve my attention. Thank you for RAISING significantly the discourse from a Jerry Springer show to more of a...um...Dr. Phil show? I don't know...something!

 

And I appreciate that despite your own previously completely confident/arrogant and insulting tone in your last email, you have re-considered your approach. I have much respect for that kind of humility/introspection.

 

See below.

 

>>(1) I think it's interesting that you (not entirely

>unjustifiably) lament the fact that posters here who don't

>know you and never met you spoke with such passionate

>negativity about what you wrote, and that even worse (in your

>view), they did so by having to speculate about your motives

>and intentions and make guesses about what you were thinking

>and doing when you wrote your post.

 

Actually it went MUCH further than what you saw -- they called me and others names (asshole, rogue, scam artist, etc.) and at least two people attempted to spread nonsense than I'm running a scam and that I rip-off clients. You didn't see all these attacks because HooBoy deleted them as they are CLEAR violations of the forum's rules.

 

>

>And yet, in the very same post where you criticize these

>posters for spewing such negativity and guessing about what

>you were thinking, you do exactly the same thing when speaking

>of them. You decree that all of the people who vehemently

>criticized your post are themselves vicious, psycopahtic

>haters who are lonely, extremely bitter, sick with misery, and

>are pitiful losers sitting at home with too much time on their

>hands who use their computer to spew hatred at themselves.

 

>By saying all of this, aren't you doing exactly what you are

>purporting to criticize? I mean - what's the difference

>between: (a) saying that your post was a disgnenuous effort to

>promote yourself and was really motivated by your desire to

>attract attention and clients and (b) saying, as you did, that

>those posters who wrote posts containing viewpoint (a) are

>disingenuous sickos whose true motivations are to spew hatred

>at others as a means of relieving their own failed lives of

>the dark, dank prison in which they wallow?

>

>Couldn't it be that the reason why people wrote these posts is

>becasue they were truly offended and sickened by what you

>wrote? As I made clear, I thought prior to your response to

>me that you were exploting the HIV issue as a means of making

>yourself look good - something which you yourself agreed would

>be a heinous thing to do.

>

>So, even if it's true, as you claim, that those who thougt

>that this is what you were doing misinterpreted your

>intentions, how does this enable you to know that they did so

>because they hate themselves rather than because they hate

>what they believed you wrote? Aren't you bestowing on

>yourself the same powers of psychic intuition as you accused

>those of bestowing on themselves by daring to think that they

>could interpret the motives behind your post?

>

 

FIrst of all you took what I said a big step further than what I actually said. I called no one a psychopath or a pititful loser, for example, among other things you wrote. In fact, my objection to such name calling is a fundamental issue here!

 

Also, you didn't see the personal and professional attacks that were written by a couple of posters because HooBoy deleted them. So the answer is that my responses were VERY different in tone and content than the people who were attacking Devon, me, other escorts, Hooboy, etc.

 

As I did to others in my recent response, I likewise have no problem with anyone speculating about my motives or disagreeing with my politics or points. This is in bounds and can be done civilly -- and it's the whole point of a discussion list!

 

The point is the MANNER in which you do this. My thoughts about the psychology of others, I think, if delivered civilly, are not out-of-bounds. You are free to offer your own thoughts about my psychology, motivations, etc. That's NOT what I'm complaining about. But when you do that, if you want to have a dialogue with me, try and avoid calling me asshole, rougue, a scam artist, etc.

 

One poster just wrote "another escort taking advantage of the message center." Um, huh? There is no discussion here. It's just an arrogant conclusion delivered with no invitation to respond at all. And it was wrong. I didn't bother to reply.

 

Ok, I just re-read my most recent post. I believe that my speculation about what's motivating the attacks is in bounds, and open for discussion. I basically NEVER singled out any one person (except the Christian question for VA HAWK) and I NEVER called any names -- except "veteran haters" -- which I'll think about whether that is cool or not....need to think about it.

 

But, my friend, my post doesn't compare AT ALL to the posts from ortud495, va hawk, lucky, wstxguy, skyyguy, and some others, many of which were edited by HooBoy simply because they were NOT AT ALL about the ISSUES and there was no substance or discussion in them, they just libeled me and Devon and even Hooboy at one point. And it was in the form of an attempt to damage my professional reputation, and that of Devon's. It was also in the form of lots of profanity and non-discussion proclamations and insults. I believe this is qualitatively different than my posts.

 

Perhaps I should have been more explicit that my inferences about the poster's lives who spew hate are just that...inferences...open for discussion and debate. I notice no on dares go into their own psychology on here. I'm happy to discuss mine. But silence is everyone's right. So I was stating substantive opinions open for discussion and that resulted from several days of reading posts from a group of people. I think it's qualitatively different than what HooBoy had to censor or what VA HAWK wrote in his profanity-filled lynching of me.

 

Remember, much of the hate speech and libel you didn't see because HooBoy deleted it.

 

Hooboy also noted that there was a time when many escorts participated in this message center...And he pointed out that the reason they don't anymore is because they are so often lynched by the usual suspects, as has happened here to me. He thinks that sucks. I do, too.

 

>(2) I understand your points about how ludicrous it would be

>to talk about HIV in order to promote yourself as an escort

>and that you don't need to promote yourself because you

>already have too many clients. But you have to understand

>that your behavior here is not reflective of an escort who has

>no interest in promoting yourself, as you very frequently and

>aggressively advertise in the Travel Section and you post here

>NOT under some alternative name, but under your escort name,

>complete with links to your escort advertising page.

 

My friend, you just switched topics to ANOTHER forum: the ADVERTISING TRAVEL forum. Of course I blatantly advertise there with links and pics and info....THAT IS WHAT IT IS FOR. And it has nothing to do with what is going on in THIS forum. Totally separate issues.

 

And you remind me of another point I forgot to make, why the hell bother writing a controversial post in THIS forum when I already have an effective ad in the other forum? Duh, there would be no point, and that's not what I did. I wrote my feelings about my friend in the heat of the moment about 2 minutes after I got off the phone with him. To advertise? puh-leeze.

 

>

>I don't think there's anything wrong with escorts posting here

>in order to attract clients. But that is something that you

>clearly do, and it's a little silly to object when others

>think that part of what is motivating you in posting is to

>attract clients. This is a site filled with escorts and

>clients; it's a site that generates lots of business for

>escorts; and I hardly think that it's unreasonable to believe

>that an escort is motivated, at least in part, by a desire to

>attract clients when posting here.

>

 

You are mixing apples and oranges. The LOUNGE gets me NO clients, I think, and I didn't advertise there with any link or anything like that -- I talked about health, drug use, ecorting, HIV, etc.

 

The TRAVEL section gets me some clients (not many) -- and that is a different part of this web-site -- where I list my web-page, etc. I also pay significantly for ads on MLM and on this site in the featured escort section. So I make no apologies for prominently announcing my travel plans, if you read earlier posts by me, you will see WHY i bump my posts up in the travel section. It is NOT for the reason most people think.

 

>(3) I don't think that talking about HIV is nearly as

>ridiculous as a means for advertising your services as you

>(and Devon) suggest. In fact, if you look at escort ads on

>AOL or anywhere else, you will constant, prominent references

>to the escort's HIV status, at least if it's purportedly

>negative.

 

 

I make no reference to HIV in any ad of mine, and never have. Seems awfully stupid to me. More evidence that I don't use HIV as a way to get clients!!!!!!!

 

 

. So

>screaming I AM HIV-NEGATIVE AND SUPER CLEAN AND D/D FREE

> is absoultely an effective way for escorts to attract

>clients. The proof is that lots of escorts DO exactly then

>when advertising, so it's hardly unreasonable to have thought

>that you were doing the same thing by proclaiming here - not

>for the first time - that you, UNLIKE YOUR ESCORT-FRIENDS,

>were HIV-negative and drug-free.

 

I didn't SCREAM anything in my post -- someone else made it big and bold and blue in a folllow up post, not me. And in fact, I hardly have any escort friends. I disagree bringing up controversial issues, -- politics, HIV, or anything else -- is an effective way to get clients. And I wouldn't mention things like that in my ad.

 

In fact, in a tiny way I kind of find listing HIV status in escort ads or AOL profiles offensive, not sure why, but it just seems weird to me. Seems like it degrades the subject down to coffee talk or something, I don't know.

 

So again back to my main point: It isn't unreasonable to talk about the issues and to wonder my motivations and to criticize me civilly -- on the issues. I'm totally into a free exchange of ideas -- a discussion -- like we are having.

 

But again, the posts HooBoy edited, and some still remaining, don't do that. They just call names, tried to hurt my business, state incorrect opinions about me as facts, insult escorts in general, insult me, devon and even hooboy!

 

 

>

>(4) I think the reaction that you and Devon are having does

>reflect one odd thing about this forum. It is true that

>escorts who participate here are not anonymous, whereas

>non-escort participants are. Thus, escorts who become the

>target of angry, negative, insulting posts have more at stake

>than non-escorts, who can (or at least should) easily shrug

>off such attacks.

>

>But the choice you made is to post and engage in discussion

>over controversial issues as an escort. I know of other

>escorts who post here under their escort name when it comes to

>innocuous, or humorous, or advertising-related matters, but

>post under a different non-escort name when engaging in

>political or attack posts or otherwise saying things that they

>think won't help their business.

>

>Both you and Devon post here under your escort name and (more

>so Devon) do so by frequently engaging in discussions and

>expressing opinions which are likely to alienate a few or lots

>of people. That, I suppose, is commendable, but having chosen

>to dive into the message center, you can't then expect special

>treatment by claiming that it's unfair to say mean things

>about you because it can hurt your business. Almost every

>poster here, at one time or another, has something mean said

>about them. Escorts shouldn't expect to be exempted from this

>treatment simply becasue they are escorts.

 

 

You misread what I wrote in past posts. Number one, I NEVER imagined the hate-filled responses would come like they have, and now I know why escorts aren't on this message board much anymore...I won't be either after this. I promise. And had I known so many people would spew hate at me and others, I wouldn't have posted ANYTHING.

 

I never asked for special treatment because I'm an escort. I asked for the SAME treatment I would receive if I were on a discussion list in a decent civil society! I didn't get it. And there is no excuse and no justifying it. Some of the unpleasant posters got their way -- they won-- they post thousands of posts, a high percentage of which are aimed at attacking escorts -- clearly having built quite a life around it. These posters have run, according to Hooboy and emails I got from several other people, virtually all the escorts off these boards. You decide how you feel about that.

 

And I mean it when I say these people dislike escorts in general. I think it is obvious. One recent poster on this thread wrote it was my job to "sell my ass for a couple of B. Franklins" and to NOT have or offer opinions about social issues....My god...get away from me low-life. And yes I did just call a name...In fact, my decent clients ARE interested in more than just how hot I am. Some people have decent values and depth of character.

 

 

>

>(5) This Board, and many on the Internet like it, does

>generate a lot of intensity and passion. I think that's good

>and healthy and interesting. I don't think that anyone was

>saying what they said about your post because they wanted to

>harm you.

 

You are wrong. Several people wrote their posts with the sole intent of damaging my business and hurting me and said NOTHING about HIV or the issues in my original post. HooBoy deleted MOST of those posts. You didn't see them, I think.

 

 

I think they were saying it because they

>interpreted it as I described earlier - an interpretation of

>what you were saying which even you acknowledged would be

>disgusting. People here have strong opinions and they express

>them strongly. I don't think that makes the participants here

>lunatics or haters. To the contrary, I think it's what makes

>this place real and raw and worthwhile.

>

>(6) Having read a lot more from you in this thread beyond your

>standard posts about how there are so many escorts who are

>HIV-positive but you're not, I will acknowledge that there

>very well may have been some misunderstanding, including on my

>part, about what really motivated you to write that post. But

>given that relatively large number of people who wrote to say

>that they agreed with Lucky - including many who do not

>normally jump into these frays and who never have a bad word

>to say about anyone - you may want to consider why it is -

>i.e., what it is about what YOU said and how you expressed it

>- that enabled this misunderstanding to arise.

>

>It's easy and fulfilling to rant about how everyone who

>criticized you is a pathetic sicko, but it's probably not as

>profitable as wondering what it is that you did that provoke it.

 

Once again, I never called anyone "pathetic sicko"...I was called names, but I don't think I ever singled out anybody and called them names.

 

I think it's interesting that your assumption is that those who attacked me were well-meaning...but your assumption about ME having read my original post was that I was NOT well-meaning. Could this reveal a little prejudice against escorts? A little bit maybe? I dunno...just wondering...

 

My original post was poorly and hastily written -- bad idea...I acknowledged that in my SECOND post. Check it out.

 

HOWEVER, the FACT is that I have received about 30 emails in the past few days telling me I'm "exactly right", to ignore the hate-filled posts and that I have responded, to use one person's word, like a "statesmen." (Well, I did meet Colin Powell once.)

 

I even received a few phone calls from people I didn't know supporting me, and one past client called wanting to write a good review because he couldn't believe a couple of the non-sense things that were written.

 

All that meant a lot to me. Look at this thread, 3000 views!!!! There is a HUGE silent majority out there who KNOWS how to engage in civil conversation and who finds the hate speech of many veteran posters "repugnant", to use one person's word from their email to me.

 

I appreciate your time. But I really can't continue these posts, I'm neglecting my "real" life at this point in a major way. So much to do!

 

- RYAN

[HooBoy]

Dear Danny,

 

I concur.

 

I do not know Ryan, but I did call him from Hong Kong to find out what was going on and he sounded like a very nice guy.

 

Do escorts take advantage of this site? All the time.

 

People, escorts and readers alike have the audacity to post on here encouraging escorts to advertise on websites that have fewer than half the daily readership of this website, costing me money.

 

What stunned me was the viciousness of the attacks against Ryan and the scurrilous hateful gossip that was deleted.

 

There are a lot of really fine folks here.

 

I just ignore the idiots - I wish Ryan had.

 

ASSUME EVERYONE IS HIV POSITIVE....EVERYONE!!!

 

--garbo the hoo

[Guest DevonSFescort]

RE: Ryan's FINAL post, he needs to return to REAL life now.

 

>I mean - what's the difference

>between: (a) saying that your post was a disgnenuous effort to

>promote yourself and was really motivated by your desire to

>attract attention and clients and (b) saying, as you did, that

>those posters who wrote posts containing viewpoint (a) are

>disingenuous sickos whose true motivations are to spew hatred

>at others as a means of relieving their own failed lives of

>the dark, dank prison in which they wallow?

 

I think this question was directed more at Ryan than at me, but with a few changes in wording it could probably just as easily be directed at me, so I'll take a stab at answering it. With regard to a point as broad as you're making, you're right that there's not much difference. But let's think about the specific context here. The subject of the post was a friend getting HIV and continuing a pattern of self-destructive behavior. But since that person was a) an escort and b) an escort who's a friend of Ryan's, whom many people on here have written off because (gasp) he bumps his posts in the travel section(!), nobody, until I first joined the thread at post number 26, so much as told Ryan they were sorry that his friend had seroconverted. Even -- setting aside the smears, gossip and cheap shots -- the comparatively cordial responses jumped right into what I called a "grading papers" mentality, nitpicking over every choice of words, or complaining that the topic isn't new and entertaining enough ("we've discussed this before") without so much as a "That's too bad about your friend." That's why, in my first reply to this thread, I objected to the "numb, jaded" nature of the replies. Something very disturbing is going on when more than two dozen posts go by on a thread about "another HIV-positive escort" before one person simply says "I'm sorry to hear that." And then, after I pointed this out, in the dozens of posts that followed, only Boston Guy had the decency to join me in saying he was sorry about Ryan's friend (I hope I'm mistaken about this, and apologize to anyone whose post I overlooked, and it must be said that a fair number of posts did indirectly reflect a certain amount of sympathy). And he'd already been DEFENDING Ryan, and he was enough of a man to do something Lucky still can't bring himself to do -- apologize.

 

You can talk all you want about how Ryan brought this on himself by not posting under a fake name or by having engaged in self-promotional tactics, but I think it's fucked up that people are so easily distracted by something so petty that news that a poster's friend just got HIV is so easily pushed to the side and ignored. It's a symptom of the same mentality that lets a porn studio keep releasing new DVDs of one of its stars two years after his death without even a brief "In Memory Of" on the cover or anywhere on the DVD (or, for that matter, anywhere on their website, where his pics and profile are right up there with all the other models). Sex workers are THAT disposable.

 

Yes, yes, I know this is nothing new, but guess what? That doesn't make it right, and those of us who participate in the sex industry need to start expecting better of ourselves and each other. Somebody damned well better start questioning the motives of people who can't even stop to acknowledge a tragedy when they see it because they're too busy scrutinizing the motives of the person who's dealing with that tragedy -- not to mention smearing him and trying to damage his livelihood. What would it have been like if he'd had a family member die? Would a few more people have shown a little respect, or would the knives have really come out?

 

 

>But you have to understand

>that your behavior here is not reflective of an escort who has

>no interest in promoting yourself, as you very frequently and

>aggressively advertise in the Travel Section and you post here

>NOT under some alternative name, but under your escort name,

>complete with links to your escort advertising page.

 

Right. That makes it all okay, doesn't it? Who cares if someone got HIV? If he was friends with someone who very frequently and aggressively advertises in the Travel Section, uses his escort name and links to his ad page, then by definition it can't matter, can it? Glad to see we're all focused on what's really important in life.

 

>I don't think that talking about HIV is nearly as

>ridiculous as a means for advertising your services as you

>(and Devon) suggest. In fact, if you look at escort ads on

>AOL or anywhere else, you will constant, prominent references

>to the escort's HIV status, at least if it's purportedly

>negative.

 

What rank amateurs. You mean they're only breezily mentioning that they're HIV-negative somewhere on their ad (falsely, in many cases, which was one of Ryan's points)? Don't they know the REAL way to rake in the dough is to claim their friend just got infected to go on a rant about it?

 

>The proof is that lots of escorts DO exactly then

>when advertising, so it's hardly unreasonable to have thought

>that you were doing the same thing by proclaiming here - not

>for the first time - that you, UNLIKE YOUR ESCORT-FRIENDS,

>were HIV-negative and drug-free.

 

Of course. Brief mention in an ad saying "HIV-, D/D free" and a post talking about an infected friend. Why, they're practically identical. Who WOULDN'T confuse the two?

 

>I know of other escorts who post here under their escort name when >it comes to innocuous, or humorous, or advertising-related matters, >but post under a different non-escort name when engaging in

>political or attack posts or otherwise saying things that they

>think won't help their business.

 

I have no problem with escorts who do that, but to posit this as some kind of solution to the problem of anonymous posters who try to punish any known escort who dares post an opinion they don't like, or to pretend that what those posters are doing is okay, is just ridiculous. I'll be more than happy to sign my escort name to that statement. And I'll continue to sign my escort name to what, for so many on this board, is the most unforgiveable statement of all: that escorts are human beings who deserve to be treated with the same respect as people in other lines of work -- even the jobs held by the people who'd rather we shut up and know our place. And no, it's not okay when escorts forget their clients are human beings and regard and treat them as ATMs, either, so I'll save whoever wants to change the subject by raising that issue the trouble. The sex industry is only going to get better if more buyers and sellers buy into, and practice, the notion of treating each other with respect. A simple "I'm sorry your friend got infected, and I'm sorry I was too busy pigeon-holing you to give a shit" would be a nice place to start.

[Guest HOTnySTUDRYAN]

Hello, Since this keeps happening to escorts I know, and since they keep on escorting, I felt I had to say something about it on this site...

 

Yet another escort my age, who is beautiful and a very sweet person..has descended into barebacking, the HIV world, and crystal meth addiction...

 

He is the 5th escort I know of personally in the last year who continues to escort and is HIV + ...

 

I'm very healthy and require my clients to respect my limits in terms of STD safety. We have a great time and I remain STD-free!

 

Yes, Virginia, you can have fun and live a long life!

 

It's sad, I think behavior such as his only comes from self-hatred...Is it his fault? No, it's the fault of homophobes, mostly the Christian types who want to put bigotry in our Constitution. Blood is on their hands.

 

- RYAN }(