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Has attitudes changed?


Atlantagaguy
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When I do go out I usually go to the local strip clubs here in Atlanta. Last night a friend of mine wanted to go to one of the gay clubs here in Atlanta. This club had a very busy back room. I was amazed with the amount of bare backing that I saw. I watch one guy have anal sex with four different men without wearing a condom and then was sucked off by two young twinks . I know there is a rise in STD’s and HIV in Atlanta. Has times change that these men are willing to take the risk of getting a disease? What is it like in your market?

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Sadly, reports of high-risk intimate behavior are becoming more and more frequent. I'm thinking huge contributing factors are that for most young people death is not real and that misconception is fueled by the entertainment industry. Consider the number of video games and movies produced and distributed wherein there are random intimacies without std protections and others where individuals are shot, decapitated, incinerated, and or bombed, but the games/movies go on uninterrupted with no apparent consequences. For most young people, barring the tragedy of terminal illnesses or fatal accidents, do not understand and accept the finality of death until older loved ones begin to pass. My pointing the finger toward the entertainment industry is refuted by many, but I believe the entertainment industry has been, and is, given a pass by politicians, legislators and many social analysts because it is a ubiquitous financial behemoth.

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My pointing the finger toward the entertainment industry is refuted by many, but I believe the entertainment industry has been, and is, given a pass by politicians, legislators and many social analysts because it is a ubiquitous financial behemoth.

 

So if an entertainment piece like a movie or song can make me feel happy or sad, and the entertainment industry is happy to claim being the cause of those emotions, then I think it's laughable for the Industry to deny any responsibility when it's found that a mass shooter has been obsessively watching the movie Taxi Driver. Now maybe mass killers are predisposed to like violent movies anyway. But I can't believe that violent media might not be a trigger in some. In the same way the Industry often is eager to claim being behind a new fad-but say in the case of barebacking films-claim they are only giving the fan base what they want. There is no question in my mind that seeing constant consequent-less barebacking in gay pornography abets the mindset that barebacking is ok.

 

Gman

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people under 30 didn't see AIDS from the beginning. They simply don't understand what they are risking.

 

That's what I see. A widespread attitude among under-30, especially under-25 (compounded there by invincibility-of-youth syndrome), that HIV infection is just one of many chronic, medically manageable conditions today. They hardly need porn to see bb behavior modeled -- they just pick it up from peers.

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Guest ChrisW
That's what I see. A widespread attitude among under-30, especially under-25 (compounded there by invincibility-of-youth syndrome), that HIV infection is just one of many chronic, medically manageable conditions today. They hardly need porn to see bb behavior modeled -- they just pick it up from peers.

Your spot on yet again Mr Smith. I know people get rilled up when I talk about HIV and I can understand given all the cultural trauma but I would ask that folks try to be rational when discussing a public health which is what this is.

 

HIV is VERY manageable and is not that big a deal. HIV transmission among people who are on meds is astronomically low and could conceivably happen if they missed a couple doses of meds or if they are under a lot of stress (physical or mental stress can cause spikes in viral load). It is very rare that people have AIDS related deaths in first world countries anymore and while there are some more virulent strains of HIV out there for the majority of people HIV consists of taking a daily pill and going to the doctor every few months to have blood work done.

 

The face of HIV has changed since the cocktail came out and its taken nearly 20 years for the stigmas about being positive change because people are living long healthy lives now. Younger generations are seeing that HIV is a very manageable condition and don't have the fear of god in them that older generations do because people no longer drop like flys.

 

Prep has really changed the way people think about HIV and its wonderful. That being said my concern about rampant barebacking are the other sti's that people are picking up. If these guys are going in to get tested every 3 months thats a HUGE window to pass along STI's. If your fucking a lot of people every month even if your doing it with barrier methods go get yourself checked out every 30 days.

 

Y'all can throw your hands up in the air and say its everyones personal responsibility to have safer sex but I think a more reasonable and logical approach is to think of this as a cultural issue as well. Take a way the shame of STI discussion, encourage people to get tested much more often than this 3 month nonsense, and provide easy access for treatment.

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When I do go out I usually go to the local strip clubs here in Atlanta. Last night a friend of mine wanted to go to one of the gay clubs here in Atlanta. This club had a very busy back room. I was amazed with the amount of bare backing that I saw. I watch one guy have anal sex with four different men without wearing a condom and then was sucked off by two young twinks . I know there is a rise in STD’s and HIV in Atlanta. Has times change that these men are willing to take the risk of getting a disease? What is it like in your market?

 

People don't give a fuck about getting infected with HIV, they just pass the bill to the local/state government and go on the pill for life.

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It seems in sex work young (and old) people still want to use condoms more often than not. But in their everyday sex life, at this point I think more people are barebacking than not. The long term effects of HIV are still a concern. Studies have shown that the brains of HIV positive individuals age faster.

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So that would be a no to a rational discussion on hiv. Best of luck folks

Chris, just because we disagree with you doesn't mean our discussions on HIV aren't rational. I have a chronic disease-actually several. But for this case in point-we'll choose my vitiligo. Now vitiligo is mostly harmless, and I'm lucky enough to be fair-skinned enough that it's not usually immediately noticeable (unless I'm under a black light at a club-then the white areas glow and my true identity as a space alien is revealed.). But aside from being disfiguring and making my Vit. D level undetectable, it's not too hard to live with. Chronic HIV is a whole other kettle of fish. It's a lifelong disease which if you don't take the medications daily, you could end up dead. Now the death may take a little longer than a Type I Diabetic who goes without their insulin. But it will still kill you. And let's not forget the side effects of the medications. Plus if someone had such a devil-may-care attitude to bareback indiscriminately-how tough is it to imagine that they wouldn't be the most consistent medication takers. As for their partners-what if they aren't taking their medications regularly -tell the prospective partner they are undetectable-they bareback-the partner can't afford Truvada-bam-the partner is infected.

 

Substitute the serious and chronic diseases like Type I Diabetes or Chronic Myelogenous Leukemia for HIV in the statement 'HIV is no big deal and manageable'. Who would want those diseases if they could avoid them? I just can't go for the idea of going bare unless in a monogamous relationship.

 

Gman

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I struggle with the notion that the entertainment industry has some responsibility for an increase in unprotected sex. People who see reckless, high speed driving in action flicks don't get in their car and suddenly drive like Vin Diesel. Fans of TV series Breaking Bad are not setting up meth labs. A 5 year old might dress up as Spider Man, but he or she is not going to jump off a building. People are smarter than that. I see bareback in porno movies as fantasy and I know that this fantasy is not meant for real life. To me, bareback porno is exciting because it's forbidden fruit. That's what fantasy often is. I also know (or hope) that porno actors have been tested and are taking great care to stay uninfected.

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I struggle with the notion that the entertainment industry has some responsibility for an increase in unprotected sex. People who see reckless, high speed driving in action flicks don't get in their car and suddenly drive like Vin Diesel. Fans of TV series Breaking Bad are not setting up meth labs. A 5 year old might dress up as Spider Man, but he or she is not going to jump off a building. People are smarter than that. I see bareback in porno movies as fantasy and I know that this fantasy is not meant for real life. To me, bareback porno is exciting because it's forbidden fruit. That's what fantasy often is. I also know (or hope) that porno actors have been tested and are taking great care to stay uninfected.

 

 

I'll have to disagree. While media may not make you do something, it certainly can cause a permissive atmosphere. Think about the Coon Skin Hat Craze of the 1950's because of Fess Parker's Davey Crocket. Look at cosmetics for women-from Wikipedia "Around 1910, make-up became fashionable in the United States of America and Europe owing to the influence of ballet and theatre stars such as Mathilde Kschessinska and Sarah Bernhardt." Before 1910 you were thought to be a 'fallen women' if you wore make-up. Another example would be in years past all the toy ads on TV during Saturday morning cartoons. During WW2 Veronica Lake was reportedly asked by the government to change her peek-a-boo hairstyle so women working in factories wouldn't have occluded vision. Seeing bareback porn doesn't 'make' you perform bareback yourself-but it's always in the back of your mind. It creates a generally permissive atmosphere even if only subconsciously that it's all right. When you consider how most of us would really prefer going bare, it takes even less subconscious urging.

 

Oh and I'll bet if you were to look at ER or orthopedic records, it wouldn't be that uncommon for five year olds to hurt themselves pretending to be superheroes

 

Gman

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Your spot on yet again Mr Smith. I know people get rilled up when I talk about HIV and I can understand given all the cultural trauma but I would ask that folks try to be rational when discussing a public health which is what this is.

 

HIV is VERY manageable and is not that big a deal. HIV transmission among people who are on meds is astronomically low and could conceivably happen if they missed a couple doses of meds or if they are under a lot of stress (physical or mental stress can cause spikes in viral load). It is very rare that people have AIDS related deaths in first world countries anymore and while there are some more virulent strains of HIV out there for the majority of people HIV consists of taking a daily pill and going to the doctor every few months to have blood work done.

 

The face of HIV has changed since the cocktail came out and its taken nearly 20 years for the stigmas about being positive change because people are living long healthy lives now. Younger generations are seeing that HIV is a very manageable condition and don't have the fear of god in them that older generations do because people no longer drop like flys.

 

Prep has really changed the way people think about HIV and its wonderful. That being said my concern about rampant barebacking are the other sti's that people are picking up. If these guys are going in to get tested every 3 months thats a HUGE window to pass along STI's. If your fucking a lot of people every month even if your doing it with barrier methods go get yourself checked out every 30 days.

 

Y'all can throw your hands up in the air and say its everyones personal responsibility to have safer sex but I think a more reasonable and logical approach is to think of this as a cultural issue as well. Take a way the shame of STI discussion, encourage people to get tested much more often than this 3 month nonsense, and provide easy access for treatment.

 

Hi Chris,

 

Although I am essentially retired now, I have been an HIV care provider for more than twenty years and I want to fully support your point that we have cultural barriers that shame people out of appropriate discussions regarding STD’s and therefore, appropriate testing and treatment.

 

I also support PrEP and although I don’t believe it has significantly changed the way people think about HIV yet, I hope it is contributing to the understanding that HIV is preventable, and PrEP is one way, and it is not exclusive of other methods.

 

I agree with your point that people engaging in risky behaviors should adjust their testing accordingly and get appropriately treated when indicated. I believe this would do a great deal to reduce the over all incidence of STD’s. Honestly, judgment aside, from my experience, people who exchange bodily fluids with multiple partners get sick. It’s really that simple.

 

I hope you do not discount the personal responsibility I believe people have to take care of themselves AND those with whom they are playing. If someone has HIV, or another infection, I believe they have a personal responsibility to keep it to themselves. Although appropriate HIV care does significantly reduce the risk of its transmission, HIV positive people who interrupt their medications, for whatever reason, may be HIGHLY infectious, and I have seen this many times.

 

I agree that HIV can be very manageable. But I still see it as a really big deal. I just told someone last week, with an undetectable viral load and normal CD4 count, that he has multiple myeloma and I don’t believe that the HIV is coincidental. If you have HIV, please take good care of yourself, and please, don’t pass it on. If you don’t have HIV, take the responsibility not to get it.

 

Sorry to be so long winded.

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Guest ChrisW
At whose expense?

Tax payers because its for the public good.

 

There was a quote from the documentary How To Survive A Plague which if you haven't seen you really should that has stuck with me, “What does a decent society do to people who hurt themselves because they are human? You smoke too much, you eat too much, you drive carelessly and you have unsafe sex. I think the answer is that a decent society doesn’t put people out to pasture and let them die because they have done a human thing.”

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Guest ChrisW
Hi Chris,

 

Although I am essentially retired now, I have been an HIV care provider for more than twenty years and I want to fully support your point that we have cultural barriers that shame people out of appropriate discussions regarding STD’s and therefore, appropriate testing and treatment.

 

I also support PrEP and although I don’t believe it has significantly changed the way people think about HIV yet, I hope it is contributing to the understanding that HIV is preventable, and PrEP is one way, and it is not exclusive of other methods.

 

I agree with your point that people engaging in risky behaviors should adjust their testing accordingly and get appropriately treated when indicated. I believe this would do a great deal to reduce the over all incidence of STD’s. Honestly, judgment aside, from my experience, people who exchange bodily fluids with multiple partners get sick. It’s really that simple.

 

I hope you do not discount the personal responsibility I believe people have to take care of themselves AND those with whom they are playing. If someone has HIV, or another infection, I believe they have a personal responsibility to keep it to themselves. Although appropriate HIV care does significantly reduce the risk of its transmission, HIV positive people who interrupt their medications, for whatever reason, may be HIGHLY infectious, and I have seen this many times.

 

I agree that HIV can be very manageable. But I still see it as a really big deal. I just told someone last week, with an undetectable viral load and normal CD4 count, that he has multiple myeloma and I don’t believe that the HIV is coincidental. If you have HIV, please take good care of yourself, and please, don’t pass it on. If you don’t have HIV, take the responsibility not to get it.

 

Sorry to be so long winded.

I don't discount personal responsibility nor do I think we should but the reason I bring up cultural responsibility is because that is something can be easily acted on. You can provide services for people to prevent and treat STI's but unless your going into peoples bedrooms you can't control what they do. I come at HIV from a harm reduction point of view both on personal and societal level.

 

I am working on a degree in social work and in particular I deal with public health as part of my degree. I am spending the next couple months researching the history, biology and treatment of HIV because I think this a really important topic. To me HIV is as big a deal as diabetes which is a sentiment shared by many health care providers I deal with.

 

The reason I don't go into more detail, qualify my statements, and provide links is that I am not writing a paper. I am conversing with people who SHOULD be up to date on their vaccinations as well as knowledge of sexual health. If we are going to talk about personal responsibility how many form members know the risks of what they do? Do they know the symptoms of STI's? Do they know what treatments are available should they contract an STI? Do they have a health care provider they are comfortable talking to about their sexual health?

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Make no mistake about this...the virus will morph into something more dangerous and again people will be warned...it can happen to anyone.....no such thing as safe sex....."safer sex"? ......I don't know if that works....I have had dozens of friends die in their 30's and 40's....I hope I never see another die a hideous...cruel...and non discriminatory viral death that may be avoided...

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That's what I see. A widespread attitude among under-30, especially under-25 (compounded there by invincibility-of-youth syndrome), that HIV infection is just one of many chronic, medically manageable conditions today. They hardly need porn to see bb behavior modeled -- they just pick it up from peers.

 

 

I was chatting with a 25 year-old on another board - a lead dancer in a ballet company (he said), model-handsome. He was proposing a scene where I take him out to a club and pimp him out to all comers, bareback. I said I couldn't be part of anything that put him at such high risk. I asked him how he processed the fact that he was taking such high risks with his well-being. He said he found the risk in taking poz loads really exhilarating.

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Is it any wonder that the under 25 crowd doesn’t see any problem with bare backing when you look at young families that won’t get their children vaccinated because the disease it’s meant to protect against seems eradicated? The measles outbreak at Disneyland is an example. Parents of small children refuse to get their child protected because they do not hear about that disease any more, not thinking why the disease in this country is mostly non-existent. All those years of fear and suffering to bring HIV under some control is now being lost because of the success made in helping bring this disease under some control.

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