NYC apartment restrictions

[+ SundayZip]

I'm planning to spend a few weeks in NYC this summer and am using airbnb to find an apartment (I've used airbnb with success in other cities). But I've noticed that some apartment owners in NYC have including additional restrictions in their airbnb ad. Something like, "Only registered guests are allowed in the building/apartment. For security reasons, no visitors."

 

I've seen this sort of restriction in hotels in Mexico and South America, but I'm surprised to see it for an apartment/condo building in the US. Do you suppose this is just standard, boiler plate verbiage that the apartment owner has put on their ad? Or is it something that I should be concerned about if I want to have special guests. You NYC guys (or frequent visitors) have any insights?

[bobchitown]

If there's a place you really like, I'd drop the owner a note first saying something like "During my extended stay I may occasionally have a few friends over for drinks or dinner in the evening, will this be an issue?" Better to be upfront.

[BaronArtz]

Never heard of that as a house rule in residential coop and condo buildings in NY. If the building has a doorman, however, the doorman may ask your guest's name upon arrival and call you before letting the visitor in. However, the doorman will never ask to see your guest's ID. In office buildings it is a different story - the security staff, if there is one, can ask to see ID.

 

It sounds to me that this is simply a requirement imposed by the people renting you the apartment.

[+ FreshFluff]

I'm planning to spend a few weeks in NYC this summer and am using airbnb to find an apartment (I've used airbnb with success in other cities). But I've noticed that some apartment owners in NYC have including additional restrictions in their airbnb ad. Something like, "Only registered guests are allowed in the building/apartment. For security reasons, no visitors."

 

I've seen this sort of restriction in hotels in Mexico and South America, but I'm surprised to see it for an apartment/condo building in the US. Do you suppose this is just standard, boiler plate verbiage that the apartment owner has put on their ad? Or is it something that I should be concerned about if I want to have special guests. You NYC guys (or frequent visitors) have any insights?

 

 

I think it's an airbnb issue. NYC law makes it illegal to rent out rooms in buildings that are not registered as hotels. Next door neighbors in an apartment building report an airbnb host to the landlord if they see a large number of guests going in, and especially if they hear noise. The landlords may then evict the host.

[RyanDean]

I have a number of friends who list their NYC apartments on airbnb. Most indicate "no overnight guests" or some other proviso, mostly out of concern not for neighbors/landlords but because they don't want their place to become a partypad.

 

I'd agree with bobchitown that a simple query to the host might help to confirm things.

[Zman]

I don't thing very many airbnb listings in NYC are legal. So that may be a concern. On the other hand everybody does it.

[+ FreshFluff]

I don't thing very many airbnb listings in NYC are legal. So that may be a concern. On the other hand everybody does it.

 

It's pretty risky in a doorman building or in one where you don't know your neighbors well.

 

In addition, I've heard that NYPD detectives NY cops set up stings, i.e. pose as potential guests in order to bust AirBnB hosts. As a result, some hosts will only take people they know or those who are vouched for.

[+ SundayZip]

I asked one apartment owner who had the building security verbiage on his airbnb ad. He responded that his concern was not really about security. It was to make sure that his renters keep a low profile. He not only has to worry about NYC restrictions on short term apartment rentals, but his building does not allow it either. It was clear that he was being extremely careful.

[jakeleyman]

Tripadvisor NYC forums has all kinds of horror stories about illegal rentals in NYC. As I understand it, most temp rentals are illegal as neighbors do not enjoy continually changing and sometimes loud traffic in their buildings. There are stories of people from Chile sending big deposits in, arriving at late night hours only to find that the apartment lessor has been evicted for illegal rentals. I stopped looking for temps and when I need a decently priced full service apartment I have been using the Marmara at 2nd ave and 94th, a mid century highrise apartment turned hotel by Turkish owners. Not an awesome location but surprisingly ok and huge apartments. There was a hot little bar on 2nd just a half block away.

[edjames]

Airbnb and other short term rental sites in NYC are illegal because they violate the building's Certificate of Occupancy which clearly states that residential buildings are for longterm rentals.

Security is another issue. Having strangers with access to the building opens a wide range of problems. I'm sure there is no security checks of these short term renters.

Alas, the problem will continue to persist because, believe it or not, NYC only has only 6 building inspectors assigned to these cases for all five boroughs. Complaints regarding illegal rentals are filtered through the city's 311 system. I know, my landlord was renting out his apartment in my building and I called in a complaint. I, and others, got fed up, having groups arrive with their luggage and announce "We're here to check in!". It took 3 months for an inspector to arrive and the building's superintendent and our day door person were on vacation. The staff offered no info to the inspector, case closed and off he went. Fortunately the numnuts landlord, who lives in CA, has stopped renting it out.

[+ quoththeraven]

I believe Airbnb usage also violates NYC housing laws like the ones on rent control and rent stabilization that are meant to protect tenants (and hotel owners) from rapacious landlords. (In other words, the C of O says that because it's NYC law.) As I understand it, the only Airbnb rentals that are legal are of a room in an apartment that the apartment owner or tenant is actually using. (So, basically, apartment-sharing.) Renting out a vacant apartment is illegal, period, end of story. So the sensitivity is due to the fact that people know that and don't want their neighbors filing complaints.

 

The NY Attorney General's office issued a report on Airbnb's compliance with NYC law not too long ago. Look for it online and I'm sure you'll find it or some articles describing it. That should contain all the info anyone needs to understand the situation.

[+ SundayZip]

It's interesting to note that many, if not most, airbnb's in NYC will give you a very significant discount for a monthly stay (ie, 30 days or more). From what I can surmise, the New York law allows "short term" rentals if the apartment owner is also living in the unit OR if the rental is 30 days or more. It appears that the law targets rentals that are less than 30 days. Could this be correct?

 

Someone could stay (legally?) in a nice, upper west side apartment on a quiet street near the park for 30 days for less than the cost of 2 weeks at the Marmara or other NYC hotels. Of course the other big difficulty with short term rentals is restrictions imposed by a coop, condo association or building owner. You'd have to trust the person you're renting from to clear this type of restriction.

[nate_sf]

I asked one apartment owner who had the building security verbiage on his airbnb ad. He responded that his concern was not really about security. It was to make sure that his renters keep a low profile. He not only has to worry about NYC restrictions on short term apartment rentals, but his building does not allow it either. It was clear that he was being extremely careful.

 

This is the same reason I was given when I rented a condo in Atlanta through Airbnb. Though the ad didn't state anything about guests or the like, when the host gave me the tour of the building he asked me to keep a low profile since the condo rules of the building didn't allow short sublets. I dreaded passing by the security desk and fielding their friendly but inquisitive comments, and eventually found a way to enter through a back door with the card key. The place was great but the feeling that I needed to sneak around bugged me.

 

In New York there have been some stories of apartments being rented through Airbnb for big sex parties, so that may be the concern of those mentioning no guests. Also I think there is general sensitivity in markets such as NYC and SF where housing is in short supply and expensive, so neighbors are on the lookout for violators and will often have very strong feelings about having neighboring apartments rented out for short-term occupancy.

 

It appears that the law targets rentals that are less than 30 days.

Most cities have something like this on the books somewhere. It differentiates hotels (a commercial use) from apartments (a residential use). However on the other hand people can rent out rooms to "lodgers" for less than 30 days in most places. So as quotetheraven notes, if it's a room in a shared situation it could be legit but if it's an entire apartment or house it is probably not legal but also probably not very well enforced.

[+ SundayZip]

Just found an interesting report from the New York Attorney General, dated Oct 2014.

 

94% of airbnb hosts in NYC offer just one, or maybe two units. The remaining 6% of NYC airbnb hosts offer a large number of units, some offering hundreds of units. The report calls these airbnb hosts "commercial users". The commercial users generate 36% of the airbnb bookings in the city and 37% of the revenue. The report focuses on the commercial users, making them the biggest area of concern. The report completely excludes airbnb rentals that are 30 days or longer, stating that these rentals may be compliant with the law but it's impossible to know without having the address of the specific units.

 

So I guess the trick is to rent an airbnb from a non-commercial user, rent for at least 30 days, make sure the host keeps his or her toothbrush in the bathroom, and that the rental does not cause trouble with the coop or condo association.

[+ quoththeraven]

Just found an interesting report from the New York Attorney General, dated Oct 2014.

 

94% of airbnb hosts in NYC offer just one, or maybe two units. The remaining 6% of NYC airbnb hosts offer a large number of units, some offering hundreds of units. The report calls these airbnb hosts "commercial users". The commercial users generate 36% of the airbnb bookings in the city and 37% of the revenue. The report focuses on the commercial users, making them the biggest area of concern. The report completely excludes airbnb rentals that are 30 days or longer, stating that these rentals may be compliant with the law but it's impossible to know without having the address of the specific units.

 

So I guess the trick is to rent an airbnb from a non-commercial user, rent for at least 30 days, make sure the host keeps his or her toothbrush in the bathroom, and that the rental does not cause trouble with the coop or condo association.

 

In all the reporting I've heard on the matter (admittedly, on the radio, so I might have missed something), I don't remember anyone saying it was landlords offering a large number of units. (In the same building or across the city, I wonder?) I can see why those would be considered hotel rentals by another name.

[Tonyko]

Born raised and live NYC. The poster who quoted the LEGAL Air B&B guidlines is correct. THE LEGAL one is a ROOM or PORTION of your apartment while you are IN residence yourself at the same time.

If you RENT, and don't LIVE there and do an air b&b it's illegal and the lease holder could get tossed out.

If you own a coop, it's IMPOSSIBLE lol. My coop board doesn't even like you giving your keys to your PARENTS to use your place when you're not there. (it's more an insurance issue re liability should THEY cause damage that affects another share holder etc)

If its a Condo, that's a whole diff animal since you can buy a condo for the sole PURPOSE of renting it our for income which is why condo's cost a little more you have more latitude, but even most Condos don't allow air b&b in their charters, but technically they can't stop you from simply having MANY different "friends or family members" using your place. The NO GUESTS rule is, yes, to avoid drawing even more attention, MUCH harder in full service building btw, with doormen or concierges, boutique condos where you just walk in is an easier situation to get away with it in.

I WOULD DEF ask just to be safe if the lister OWNS the unit. (even should some horror occur, you can't be thrown out w/o notice in a privately owned unit the way you could when there is an actual "landlord" involved.

[maninsoma]

I think it's an airbnb issue. NYC law makes it illegal to rent out rooms in buildings that are not registered as hotels. Next door neighbors in an apartment building report an airbnb host to the landlord if they see a large number of guests going in, and especially if they hear noise. The landlords may then evict the host.

 

I eventually got my former neighbors evicted from their apartment in San Francisco because they had moved out and were renting out their small 1-bedroom apartment to groups as large as 5 people, most of whom were young and in San Francisco to "party." The amount of noise I dealt with was unreal. I honestly don't think that people doing this realize how severely this can negatively impact someone's life. For a period of months, I was lucky to get 2 or 3 hours of sleep per night.

[bobchitown]

Born raised and live NYC. The poster who quoted the LEGAL Air B&B guidlines is correct. THE LEGAL one is a ROOM or PORTION of your apartment while you are IN residence yourself at the same time.

If you RENT, and don't LIVE there and do an air b&b it's illegal and the lease holder could get tossed out.

If you own a coop, it's IMPOSSIBLE lol. My coop board doesn't even like you giving your keys to your PARENTS to use your place when you're not there. (it's more an insurance issue re liability should THEY cause damage that affects another share holder etc)

If its a Condo, that's a whole diff animal since you can buy a condo for the sole PURPOSE of renting it our for income which is why condo's cost a little more you have more latitude, but even most Condos don't allow air b&b in their charters, but technically they can't stop you from simply having MANY different "friends or family members" using your place. The NO GUESTS rule is, yes, to avoid drawing even more attention, MUCH harder in full service building btw, with doormen or concierges, boutique condos where you just walk in is an easier situation to get away with it in.

I WOULD DEF ask just to be safe if the lister OWNS the unit. (even should some horror occur, you can't be thrown out w/o notice in a privately owned unit the way you could when there is an actual "landlord" involved.

 

Pretty much agree with the above. I know some people are skirting the "in residence" part by actually owning two units and/or have a two-level unit with a separate entrance for each part. They claim ther're "in reseidence" since they are indeed physically in the building, just not in the same space. Probably not legal.

 

Your description of a Coop is just one more reason why I avoid them. The boards are as you describe, and while the upfront costs of ownership tend to be less, you're killed on the assessments. Here in Chicago we have any number of HUGE lakefront units in beautiful old buildings that need a ton of upkeep and a huge staff to keep running. The cost to buy in is at the point where they'll almost pay you to take it, but the monthly assessments run to more than normal mortgage/taxes would be.

 

Not all Condos can be rented. My building has fairly strict rules on this - you can rent for no more than 2 years, and only after you can prove hardship - generally inability to sell at the point you need to. The renters also have extra rules, no pets, etc. When a building goes above a certain rental percentage bad things start to happen, you get a reputation as a rental building, renters do tend to tear the place up a bit more, etc. More importantly, some lenders will stop giving mortgages in the building, my building has at least one owner with impeccable credit and who owes probably less that 25% of the unit's value who was unable to refinance due to what was at that time a high renter percentage (this is one reason they changed the rules to discourage renting.) We still have a bunch of smaller units on the lower floors that we purchased from the developer by investors as rental units. They're grandfathered, and slowly go away as they get sold off bit by bit by the investors.

 

My building actually looks at sites like AirBNB and VRBO and is forever finding units pop up. The owner gets a strong warning and that ad is taken down, but then another unit pops up. Things like "homeswap" where you're actually swapping with someone without paying money is actually OK according to our rules, and we have a couple owners that I know if who do this regularly.

[Tonyko]

Your description of a Coop is just one more reason why I avoid them. The boards are as you describe, and while the upfront costs of ownership tend to be less, you're killed on the assessments. Here in Chicago we have any number of HUGE lakefront units in beautiful old buildings that need a ton of upkeep and a huge staff to keep running. The cost to buy in is at the point where they'll almost pay you to take it, but the monthly assessments run to more than normal mortgage/taxes would be.

Yikes. Well here in Manhattan the FIRST coops believe it or not began in the 1880's. (the famed Hotel Chelsea was built as one in that era) But they didn't really begin to catch on until the early 1950's mostly along all sides of Central Park and Park ave. And oddly it seems to be the OPPOSITE here, new construction is where you can get killed when you buy, they can be built on a land lease with a huge monthly cost, plus a huge mortgage for the share holders to pay off, plus as always with something brand new, things don't work and need to be fixed etc. My building though well over 100 years old was paid off ages ago which allows for a huge reserve which eliminates most assessments when new elevators are needed or the roof leaks.