Help with what's appropriate when flying an escort in...

[Amoco]

In a few weeks I'll have some time to myself at my home in the southeast and I'm planning on flying in one of my favorite guys from NYC. When we began discussing this, I offered two separate options based on my past experiences and what I've learned and observed through the Forum.

 

Option #1 was flying down to be with me exclusively, at my place, for two extended overnights, in which case I would pay his fee, a tip, airfare and all associated expenses.

 

Option #2 was to use the two extended overnights with me as an "anchor" and to see other clients when our time together was done. In this case, I would cover the fee plus a tip and expenses associated with our time together, but airfare and other expenses would be on him.

 

The escort chose Option#1, and I agreed to cover the airfare...this morning I noted that he had an ad up to see other clients for the days after we were planning to be together. It won't interfere with my plans but it is NOT the option he chose.

 

My original proposal makes sense to me as in option #1 he is only coming down to see me and it would make sense for me to bear the expenses. In option #2, however, he is coming down to work - not only with me, but with others, as well. As a result, it seems fair that he should pick up some of the cost of doing business himself. I'm not here to provide access to other markets, but if it makes sense for both of us, then no problem. But getting me to cover expenses and then seeing other clients, is not my view of fairness.

 

Now others might say that he's really coming down to see you, so why do you care if he picks up a couple of extras here and there? I've asked myself the same question - especially since this is someone I hire often and really like and respect as both a person and escort. What I come up with is that it breeches the boundaries in the same way it would if I were to capitalize on our friendship and ask for a "freebie". At the very least, I think it should have been discussed directly with me as I offered either option and was happy to serve as the anchor rather than be exclusive, but he chose the exclusive to minimize expenses by passing them to me. I, of course, would like to minimize my expenses, too, so if he's seeing someone else, shouldn't the expense f airfare be his.

 

Interested in serious and thoughtful answers. No name calling or accusations - this, again, is someone I really respect so my interest is not in over-reacting to him, but rather to clarify my own thinking. I realize that the real money these days is in travel, but I think the way escorts travel is important. Some guys won't mind if the escort sees others on his dime.

[Traveler North]

Seems to me that his reasoning is correct. He had not planned to come to your location and is coming to see you. While he is there, he might as well make himself available to others in the area after he has completed the reason he came there in the first place.

[LTLurker]

Amoco, I understand your gut reaction, but I don't see a problem with what the escort is doing. This happens all the time in the corporate world when people go on a business trip and extend that trip to do sight seeing, visit relatives, etc. As long as the cost for you did not change as it relates to the ticket price (certainly any costs to change the ticket to stay longer should be on the escort) and his setting up additional business does not impinge on your time with him, there really is nothing improper going on. You are getting what you are paying for. Personally, I've gone on business trips and stayed longer to see cities I'm interested in. I paid all of the additional expenses, and my employer never had a problem since I was using my vacation time for the additional time spent there. In fact, more than once, the longer stay saved my employer on the airfare due to the funky airline pricing schemes. So, I think you should relax and have fun with your guy!

[BaronArtz]

Did he really think you were not going to notice his ad? He could have been more truthful with you.

 

I would discuss it with him. Clearly, since he took the initiative to make this an extended trip it is only fair that you provide payment as provided under Option 2. Except if, by staying longer, the cost of airfare is now lower. In which case it's a better deal for you.

[Amoco]

What if I would have said:

 

"I'd love to see you if you get down here, and I can guarantee a two night appointment"?

[Amoco]

Baron:

 

This is a good guy who is a straight shooter, very reasonably priced, and my most frequent hire of the past year - someone I like, respect and enjoy. I don't think he is trying to be cagey, though I don't understand why he chose #1 and did #2, other than because it minimizes his risk. To tell you the truth, it's quite possible he won't get any takers at all, but that's also the cost of doing business and wh these guys are "independent contractors" and not employees. The airfare is essentially the same for either stay so no savings for me. And the extra cost is only $350, but the principle is my issue.

[Amoco]

Lillian:

 

That's insightful, but only partially true.

 

You are correct in observing that I already see this clearly from my perspective. What I'm curious about is why, if this is so clear to me, it isn't clear to everybody else? Frankly, hearing that this happens all the time in businss isn't helpful as I don't see extending a business trip for a personal vacation on your own dime, as the same thing. An equivalent situation would be flying to Chicago to do legal work for Client A, having him pay your airfare, and then seeing other clients without airfare expenses. Does that happen? Or are they prorated? I honestly want to know how others think about this. If it's a matter of "I don't give a crap what they do after they do their thing with me", then I want to know. And just once I'd like to hear of an advantage going to the client.

[+ WhamIAm]

I see two things going on here --

 

First, I understand your gut as well, and largely agree with it. I travel quite often on my client's dime for business, and plan when I can to wrap the trip around a weekend to sight see, see friends, or test out some of the reviews on Daddy's. When I'm travelling to a city where I can also sketch out an extra work day with a different client in the same town, however, I split the travel costs between them or eat part of them myself. I think your expectation that there be some sharing of the travel costs when the escort is going to be setting up shop and seeing other clients he would not have had access to in the first place is more than fair.

 

What struck me, though, is that (if I understand correctly) the escort agreed to come down on your dime only for you, then advertised seeking new clients while he was in your town. That seems to be a flat-out breach of the terms under which you agreed to lay out the airfare. If he agreed to Option 1 and then decided he'd just ignore the whole exclusivity part of it, perhaps he doesn't respect his relationship with you the way you respect your relationship with him. Breaking your word is not good business sense.

[killianjamesnyc]

Lillian:

 

That's insightful, but only partially true.

 

You are correct in observing that I already see this clearly from my perspective. What I'm curious about is why, if this is so clear to me, it isn't clear to everybody else? Frankly, hearing that this happens all the time in businss isn't helpful as I don't see extending a business trip for a personal vacation on your own dime, as the same thing. An equivalent situation would be flying to Chicago to do legal work for Client A, having him pay your airfare, and then seeing other clients without airfare expenses. Does that happen? Or are they prorated? I honestly want to know how others think about this. If it's a matter of "I don't give a crap what they do after they do their thing with me", then I want to know. And just once I'd like to hear of an advantage going to the client.

 

What I, sally, Joe, Mary or lucy think shouldn't matter. Its your money, your escort your time and therefore your decision. To let a forum board sway your emotions on something you seem to care so much about is a bit, for lack of a better word, silly.

 

What I personally would do or think about this is null, although I do have an opinion and have been in various client arrangments like this before. Good luck on doing what you personally feel is the right thing to do.

[MiamiLooker]

Baron:

 

This is a good guy who is a straight shooter, very reasonably priced, and my most frequent hire of the past year - someone I like, respect and enjoy. I don't think he is trying to be cagey, though I don't understand why he chose #1 and did #2, other than because it minimizes his risk. To tell you the truth, it's quite possible he won't get any takers at all, but that's also the cost of doing business and wh these guys are "independent contractors" and not employees. The airfare is essentially the same for either stay so no savings for me. And the extra cost is only $350, but the principle is my issue.

 

Are you paying the expense for meals, transportation within the city and hotel for the extra days?

[Amoco]

Wham: I'm reluctant to say this because I like him so much and don't think that he has ever been anything but generous, decent and deeply satisfying with me, but alas, what you say is true. He did have both options and chose #1. Not sure of the reason r whether it makes a difference.

 

 

Killian: respectfully, for me, the whole point of the Forum is to share perspectives on issues related to hiring escorts, and again for me, it has been enormously helpful hearing a plethora of options and insights. That hardly extends to merely adopting the views of others - I think there's plenty of people around that would tell you that that's not my style. I am genuinely curious as to whether there is another view of this. And if so, does it make sense to me. That it happens all the time, means nothing to me. That it happens in business sometimes, means nothing to me. But I'm eager to hear other views that might help me to see the core issue differently.

[gallahadesquire]

I don't see this as Option 1 vs. option 2. Either you pay his airfare or you don't. If you pay his airfare, caveat emptor, and it's his time after his two (2) overnights are complete.

 

If he doesn't want to come visit, that's his option, and you're not out the airfare.

[Amoco]

Miami: No, he would be paying all other expenses related to the extra days, other than the airfare that brings him and takes him home. Interestingly, I hired him for two successive extended overnights - on the day he arrives and the next day. In each case, the overnight has to end early in the morning because my housekeeper shows up at 7:00AM and doesn't leave until 2:00PM. When I thought he was coming to see me exclusively, I assumed that any additional costs related to possibly having to get a hotel room for him during the daytime before my housekeeper leaves, would be mine. Now I'm not so sure...I hired for two overnights.

[MiamiLooker]

Miami: No, he would be paying all other expenses related to the extra days, other than the airfare that brings him and takes him home. Interestingly, I hired him for two successive extended overnights - on the day he arrives and the next day. In each case, the overnight has to end early in the morning because my housekeeper shows up at 7:00AM and doesn't leave until 2:00PM. When I thought he was coming to see me exclusively, I assumed that any additional costs related to possibly having to get a hotel room for him during the daytime before my housekeeper leaves, would be mine. Now I'm not so sure...I hired for two overnights.

 

If that’s how you presented the two options to him (each as two overnights), maybe he thought your restrictions on him “working” only applied for the hours between 7:00 am and 2:00 pm on the second day.

[Guest Starbuck]

Amoco, I can see myself reacting in exactly the same way and I know WHY I'd react that way ... because I enjoy it when sometimes, with some guys, the connection feels like more than business. You said that this fellow is one of your favorites, that you like and respect him. Maybe you've enjoyed thinking that you're one of his favorite clients, that he likes and respects you. And maybe that's true ... but what's happened is a (somewhat rude) reminder that, bottom line, this is business. And he seems to have put business (and finances) ahead of any concern that you might feel taken advantage of (and maybe a little hurt). The way I see it, his decision may be "good business" in a short-term sense, but a mistake in terms of long-term relationship-building. By the way he's handled this, he's undermined himself in your esteem--at least a little bit--although it's clear that you are trying hard to hang on to thinking well of him. If I was in your shoes, if I really liked the guy and enjoyed his company, I think I'd try to take a deep breath, file away what's happened as a lesson learned and enjoy our upcoming time together. I hope things work out for you.

[Amoco]

Miami...no chance of that. I actually went back and looked up my email. I made it clear that I would take care of arrangements during the day when my housekeeper was here,band also made it clear that if he chose #2, he would be free to work after our time together. His rate is consistent with overnights and he was told that we would have to out of my house by 6:45 and that I would make arrangements for him until he came back for round two.

[Juan Vancouver]

Amoco,

 

This has been discussed before many times and it's impossible to reach a consensus. I am going to share the way I do things, even if you write:

 

I'd like to hear of an advantage going to the client.

 

If I have to fly somewhere to meet a client, I am charging for the time I spend with him, plus all relevant expenses. This does' mean that the client owns my time before or after the session. As long as I am rested, happy and present during our session, I am doing my work.

 

Sometimes when I have to travel through time zones I choose to arrive to the location a couple days earlier to adapt to the time change and be rested for my appointment. Sometimes I choose to stay longer after the fact. I travel a lot and this kind of management is necessary to be as rested as one can. Sometimes I choose to take other clients, sometimes I don't, but that's entirely my own business. If anything, I will always have the courtesy to let my client know in advance that this might be a possibility. Up to this point nobody has find this unacceptable.

 

What if I would have said: "I'd love to see you if you get down here, and I can guarantee a two night appointment"?

 

In that case, it's possible the escort might have not found the trip profitable and not come, or maybe he would have. But these are two entirely different scenarios. You flying an escort for two overnights, and you hiring a traveling escort whenever he chooses to come. On one scenario you have absolute control of dates and times, in the other scenario you will have to wait till the escort decides (if ever) to visit your town. It's that simple.

 

Possibly the only thing you could have done better was communicate more clearly. You saying: "I will not pay airfare if you see other men" and he saying "I will post an ad." Perhaps you would have not seen eye to eye, but you would have avoided a headache.

 

My advise? Relax, pay what you agreed to pay, enjoy your escort thoroughly and then after the fact share with him your feelings and try to come to a clear negotiation for next time.

 

If you don't relax and accept what is you will pay for two overnights, or two overnights and flights and you will have a shitty session.

 

At this moment it is what it is. If you want to continue the relationship, kindly, gently, respectfully talk to him. You might be surprised.

[Amoco]

Starbuck:

 

I had an emotional response to your post which tells me that it's touching on at least part of the issue...as I've said, he's been my most frequent hire and someone I like and respect - and feel liked and respected by. I'm too far into this game to be fantasizing about any kind of a bigger, stronger or more personal relationship, and of course, I'm married and want to stay that way. All that said, I'm disappointed beyond the mere $350, which is almost irrelevant in my life. I'm disappointed because I did lay out both options clearly with a very definite view of why I was comfortable with either choice. When he chose the "exclusivity" choice, I didn't hesitate to accept and pointed out to him that in addition to our agreed upon fee and the airfare, that I also expected to tip him and cover expenses. For him to happily accept and then go about putting up an ad for the two days afterwards, seems inconsistent with our agreement, but more importantly, with my view of our relationship. That sense of entitlement in the escort world is an ongoing struggle for me, and I don't like being cast in the role of the 'demanding' or 'unreasonable' client, especially from someone I consider special. Even on the Board, if you dare to have an opinion that questions an escort, you're attacked and viewed as a troublemaker. I think doing the right thing is part of being a professional, and I rarely hear of any circumstance where the tie goes to the client. I realize that working guys often feel oppressed and powerless, but I just don't see it that way. This does feel like a breech and I'm hardly effect, but I do try to rectify my mistakes and acknowledge them - and I've made a few doozies.

[Amoco]

Juan:

 

I appreciate your response and agree and understand some of your points. I've already started a discussion with him and am looking forward to his response. Knowing both of us, I think the risk of a shitty time is unlikely and I have confidence in being able to work through this with him. Honestly, I'm trying to get my arms around this conceptually. I agree that I don't own anyone's time, but I also think that asking me to pay airfare to fly someone in when its also going to be used to expand the escort's commerce, is ethically problematic - again, if Company X pays me to fly to Chicago, and I also do business with Company Y, I don't think its right to only charge Company X. Is it legal? Probably. But I still don't think it's right, and frankly, some of the ways it is used in escorting is just wrong. This has nothing to do with ownership or slavery - in fact, I would suggest just the opposite. Lastly, in regard to bring clear, I was as crystal clear as you propose, short of asking what he would do if I just offered the 2 overnights. I presented both options, said I was cool with either, and gaciously accepted the more expensive one when he chose it. The surprise came with the ad. And just to be clear, if you know anything about me you know I'm happy to discuss anything. My guess if he mentioned it to me I would have said, "No problem" assuming I felt that he appreciated my perspective - again, this s a great guy. Entitlement is my big issue. Some might say I'm acting entitled to control the escort. I think that's neither true nor fair. I do appreciate hearing from you, though...

[namchebaz]

Amoco,

 

For what it's worth, I'm bringing an escort to the southeast US (I wonder how close we are haha) tomorrow for 2 consecutive overnights, and I'm paying his airfare. I'm also aware that he's posted an ad announcing his availability in the area after my time with him. While I realize our situations are different (I didn't offer the 2 options you did; I'm just not experienced enough to have thought of that), I have no problem with it at all. I'm delighted to see him, and frankly, happy if he can establish some other clients in the area because I enjoy seeing the escorts I like being successful. And hell, maybe he'll come back on somebody else's dime and I see him again then!

 

I do understand how you're feeling though because it seems he changed the rules of the game from your original agreement. At this point it seems like the choice is whether or not you can sustain the warm happy feelings you have for him despite what appears to be dishonesty on his part. If he's really a good guy (and you seem convinced that he is), then having a calm conversation where you explain your point of view and sincerely ask for help in understanding his, could provide a resolution so you can have the great time you are counting on. Some have suggested sweeping it under the rug, but that doesn't seem to be something that's going to work for you.

 

Mr. Vancouver suggested a conversation as well and I wonder if he or other escorts who have weighed in would suggest having that conversation ahead of his arrival by phone or email, or waiting until he shows up. I'd be inclined to try and get it resolved ahead of time so I could hopefully feel 100% about jumping into the visit when the day comes. Who wants to start a visit with "we need to talk" when there are so many other fun things to do?

 

I hope it all works out for you and that you have a great time.

[+ Travis69]

Perhaps he put up the ad just to see if he could get any more bookings. If he doesn't get any solid bookings he will leave when your time with him is finished and all the conditions of option #1 will be observed. If he gets more business maybe he will volunteer to reimburse for some of your travel costs. One advantage to the client is if he stays and makes extra revenue he might consider traveling to your city in the future on his dime and then you'll save travel costs.

[BoogieNights]

Hey Amoco -

 

Seems to me this is an integrity issue. If someone says they will do one thing and then does another, escort or not, then I think that is a red flag and cause for pause. I think the escort should have just been upfront with you about his intentions.

 

I suspect that from the escorts POV, he wanted to capitalize on your covering his travel expenses while in FL. and be in a fresh market for work. He should have either flown in early before his time with you or stayed later after his time with you.... But once with you, he is with you, period. I travel 10 days a month visiting clients and I will only work with other clients after my visit with my main benefactor has concluded. He is my priority and the only reason I am there in the first place.... he deserves the respect as such.

[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

Amoco -

 

While I understand your frustration, I'll put two other possibilities out there.

 

(1) Perhaps he was truthful in his response to your suggestion of option #2, but your suggestion of option #2 planted a seed and he changed his mind.

(2) Perhaps he has absolutely no intentions of seeing anyone else while visiting you, but is advertising in your city to create interest for a future trip.

[ncc1701d]

Thanks for posting this thread as I've had a similar situation. For me there was additional expenses involved that only came out during emails and was not on his ad, and is apparently his business model. I managed to "file it away" and had a great time with the escort. But as someone else suggested, that model works for him in the short term, but not in the long term as I also decided that I will NOT be flying him in again ever. If he happens to be in town then I would welcome an appointment, and I may continue to fly to him to visit/site see and see him. But it just left such a bad impression in my mind and changed the dynamics. There are plenty of other great escorts out there, so happy hunting!

[down_to_business]

If its important to you, then its an issue worth discussing with the escort. It really shouldn't matter what any one else thinks about anything that is obviously important to you. I would definitely recommend speaking with the escort about it directly because he may be able to give you a plausible explanation that will satisfy you both. The conversation is worth having based upon your description of your history together. The worst thing you could do is just leave it unaddressed and let those little seeds of doubt and resentment grow and totally ruin the business relationship for good unless this is the last time you plan on seeing him and then it really wouldn't matter anyways.

 

I agree at this point it is a matter of common courtesy, respect and integrity (like others have said) for you. I can't stress how important it is to address it even if others don't think it's an issue at all when it is an issue for you.