Friends with an escort

[Guest thebrandman]

I met an escort and over a period of time became his friend and we now share a very strong friendship. During this period the escorting phased out per his insistance. I am able to separate the friendship and escorting. He can not . Does that make sense?

[theDCeBOY]

>Does

>that make sense?

no.

[+ Lucky]

It seems to me that the nature of the escort/client relationship is necessarily a business one. People who come to believe that the escort is actually their friend usually learn the hard way that it is a business relationship.

That said, it doesn't mean that you cannot make a friend of an escort. But when that happens, then if you are still paying him for sex, you are not having a true friendship. That's my opinion.

[+ glutes]

Quickest way to find out if he is your friend is cut off the $.

[guptasa1]

I may be completely wrong about this, but the way I'm reading it, I *think* he's saying they became such good friends that the ESCORT didn't want to provide escorting services (take his money for sex) to HIM anymore because he felt it cheapened the friendship? And the poster's saying he wishes he could still be with his friend in an escort transaction, but the escort doesn't want to do that? Maybe I'm completely off base here, but that's the way I read it.

[theDCeBOY]

well, thanks for clarifying!

THAT does make sense to me.

if i had a client i became good friends with, i'd cut off the escorting part of the equation as well. i don't fuck my friends.

in fact, there is a guy who started out as a normal client who has become a friend. we don't have escorting engagements any longer, but we do travel together sometimes. he pays for the trip because he (gasp!) enjoys my company. we don't do anything sexual. we used to sleep in the same bed, but APPARENTLY i'm a bed hog, so about a year ago he decided he wants each of us to have his own bed.

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

En Fait

 

The poster provides insufficient information for anyone to provide a viable answer. All this conjecture is just that: guessing. This gentlemen needs to provide more specific information to get an accurate answer.

 

That said, while I agree that an escort/client relationship is premised on a financial transaction, I think when the relationship is more frequent and based on longer than one hour sessions, as mine have been with some of my clients and as others have stated here, from both the client and escort perspective, it is possible to establish a more genuine friendship. Finally, any relationship, whether it started as an escort/client or simply as two men who spotted each other at the gym, shopped at the same grocery store, etc., can have interplay which is unhealthy, where one party may wish to achieve some sort of gain over the other party, whether intentional or not. Any such relationships are not true friendships, because of how the parties acted with one another, now with how they met.

 

In my own case, I have approximately four former clients now that I stay in touch with. I do not know that I would describe either of these relationships as great friendships, but they are definitely friendly. Perhaps if we lived in the same town, we might be closer. I am aware of some escorts who have formed and maintained very positive and healthy friendships with former clients and do believe that this is possible.

 

mile after mile of overhang . . .

 

http://www.gaydar.co.uk/francodisantis

[Guest DVS]

>Quickest way to find out if he is your friend is cut off the

>$.

 

 

I agree I was what I thought was a friend with an escort. We had no sex going on and he still wanted me to help him financially when possible. The guy turned out to be a real loser and I should have listened to the posters here when this was happening but I thought my situation was different. The truth be said it never is really different.

 

Also the problem with what this guy is saying too is that he had to buy a friend and the line becomes hazy. Sometimes we think we can be friends with someone when they can tolerate us as a client. Whether you believe it or not it is a financial transaction nothing more nothing less.

 

DVS

 

P.S. This does not mean you can't try but cut the money off 100% and be real friends if possible.

[Guest Merlin]

The original post is unclear. Apparantly the escort wants to be a friend but not an escort, i.e. no sex and no pay, while our poster wants sex and is still willing to pay for it. Two possibilities:1, the escort doesn't like sex with the poster even if he is paid for it. or 2, the escort is one of those who doesn't like sex with his friends. I have never really understood those who don't like to have sex with their friends, but I know many feel this way.

[+ deej]

>I have never really

>understood those who don't like to have sex with their

>friends, but I know many feel this way.

 

I don't think it's all friends. I certainly have friends I've fucked around with and will continue to do so.

 

There's one, though, who started out as an escort/client relationship that's evolved into a deeper friendship. He's like a younger brother. Sex would feel too much like incest. (He's asleep in my guest bedroom at the moment, having spent the Thanksgiving holiday here.)

 

As with everything in life that involves human interaction, there is no "one size fits all" rule.

[theDCeBOY]

i don't fuck friends--ever.

i prefer my friends love my soul, mind, and heart, not the oversized penis or undersized ass.

[shy]

RE: En Fait

 

<<That said, while I agree that an escort/client relationship is premised on a financial transaction, I think when the relationship is more frequent and based on longer than one hour sessions, as mine have been with some of my clients and as others have stated here, from both the client and escort perspective, it is possible to establish a more genuine friendship.>>

 

i believe i understand what you're saying here, but just want to voice my opinion that it will never be a "genuine" friendship as long as the money keeps changing hands. friendlier, yes, more comfortable, relaxed, etc; but, not a genuine friendship. i know you qualified with the word "more", but genuine still seems the wrong word to use in these instances.

[guyinsf]

RE: En Fait

 

I don't agree with this. I think it's possible to have two parallel relationships. I agree that if one person is always paying for everything (ie, every time the two people see a movie or have a meal together, the "client" is paying), then that isn't much of a friendship. On the other hand, I don't see why establishing a friendship with someone precludes me from paying him for performing a specific service. If I befriend my barber, I don't automatically assume that he will then give me free haircuts. If and when I eventually buy a condo with the help of my friend who is a real estate agent, I wouldn't dream of asking him to forego his commission because we are friends. Similarly I understand that when I am hiring my friend Steven for a "sexual date", I will be paying him. When we get together for other reasons, I don't pay him. I realize that such an arrangement might not suit others, but it works fine for us.

 

><<That said, while I agree that an escort/client relationship

>is premised on a financial transaction, I think when the

>relationship is more frequent and based on longer than one

>hour sessions, as mine have been with some of my clients and

>as others have stated here, from both the client and escort

>perspective, it is possible to establish a more genuine

>friendship.>>

>

>i believe i understand what you're saying here, but just want

>to voice my opinion that it will never be a "genuine"

>friendship as long as the money keeps changing hands.

>friendlier, yes, more comfortable, relaxed, etc; but, not a

>genuine friendship. i know you qualified with the word

>"more", but genuine still seems the wrong word to use in these

>instances.

[guyinsf]

RE: En Fait

 

I don't agree with this. I think it's possible to have two parallel relationships. I agree that if one person is always paying for everything (ie, every time the two people see a movie or have a meal together, the "client" is paying), then that isn't much of a friendship. On the other hand, I don't see why establishing a friendship with someone precludes me from paying him for performing a specific service. If I befriend my barber, I don't automatically assume that he will then give me free haircuts. If and when I eventually buy a condo with the help of my friend who is a real estate agent, I wouldn't dream of asking him to forego his commission because we are friends. Similarly I understand that when I am hiring my friend Steven for a "sexual date", I will be paying him. When we get together for other reasons, I don't pay him. I realize that such an arrangement might not suit others, but it works fine for us.

 

><<That said, while I agree that an escort/client relationship

>is premised on a financial transaction, I think when the

>relationship is more frequent and based on longer than one

>hour sessions, as mine have been with some of my clients and

>as others have stated here, from both the client and escort

>perspective, it is possible to establish a more genuine

>friendship.>>

>

>i believe i understand what you're saying here, but just want

>to voice my opinion that it will never be a "genuine"

>friendship as long as the money keeps changing hands.

>friendlier, yes, more comfortable, relaxed, etc; but, not a

>genuine friendship. i know you qualified with the word

>"more", but genuine still seems the wrong word to use in these

>instances.

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Friendship And Financial Parity

 

When I lived in San Francisco and formed some of my deepest relationships, many of my friends were artist (some who also did porn, escorted, etc. but others who made their "living" from being coffee jockeys, waiters, etc.). A few of us in the group made more money than most of the rest or, to put it more accurately, had more disposable income. There were many situations where I went out to do things with friends and I paid. None of these were equivilent transactions of paying for a sexual service, but to be blunt, many of them were the equivilent of paying for my friend's companionship.

 

If I wanted to see a play, my choice was to go alone, to go with a friend who could afford it, or to pay for a friend who could not. Often, the friend who could not otherwise afford to go was the more appropriate choice. I have also dated men where there was a financial difference in our abilities to spend, frequently in one direction but certainly in the other direction as well.

 

My point was that genuine friendships can form under even the most unlikely of circumstances and that one party may spend more money than the other should not be a bar. My point was also that a financial transaction should not be confused with a genuine friendship, but that each of these is as unique as the individuals in question, thus anything is potentially possible.

[Guest alanm]

RE: Friendship And Financial Parity

 

Franco, do you really mean that longer and more frequent dates are

sometimes a prelude to genuine friendships? We have just had a number of long threads from guys who thought their relationships with escorts were more meaningful than they turned out to be.

 

Do you really want to leave the impression that spending a lot of time with an escort may lead to a real friendship. It seems to me that spending a lot of time with the same escorts is exactly what got the OPs in the other threads in trouble. I appreciate that you have remained friendly with 4 of your ex-clients, but you admit the friendship are not very deep.

 

Finally, your last posting on your group of friends and who pays when seems to be off the subject. Can you clarify?

[Guest coololdguy]

Sometimes we get so hung up about the "coldness" aspect of the "pay for sex" trade we forget that in a client escort relationship there are two unique human beings interacting. There is no argument that in a great majority of these relationships a true friendship is unlikely and there is also little argument that some clients get their hearts broken and occasionally an escort may get his ego bruised but to totally deny any possibility of friendship is to be naive about the complexity of human interactions and the individuality of us all.

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Clarity

 

I think any two men with enough in common or enough respect for their differences can form a genuine and healthy relationship. However, those are not necessarily the conditions that exist when an escort and client meet.

 

I think this absence, more than whether or not their is a financial component to the relationship, that would make a genuine and healthy relationship possible.

 

On the other hand, people who have absolutely nothing in common, can find a bond given enough contact - assuming that both parties open themselves up to this experience and also act honestly and with candor with one another. This is what I implied when I said frequent contact, including longer appointments, can lead to a bond akin to or which forms the basis of a genuine relationship. I did not mean to imply or suggest that clients should hire escorts for longer sessions or hire them more often in hopes of creating was is not there. I do mean to suggest that when the possibily is present, close proximity can and does create potential where it might not otherwise exist.

 

Because many of the client responses on this thread (and in other threads) have limited themselves to the monetary transactions as the only basis for a relationship, I wanted to remark, particularly in response to Post Number 12, that financial inequality can exist where two individuals also share a genuine and healthy relationship or friendship. That one party in a relationship has more financial wherewithal than the other does not refute the honesty that forms it. That was the purpose in some of my personal examples.

 

Finally, the four former clients with whom their exists the basis for friendship do not live in Los Angeles. One lived here but has moved out the area due to work, two others live in San Francisco. I see all four of them frequently and as I do with other clients, remain in touch with them via telephone calls and e-mails. If they lived in Los Angeles, it is possible I would see them more frequently. As the situation stands, I believe these relationships, some more so than others, are as deep as possible given the georgraphical distance and the schedules involved.

[Guest RossInPA]

If there is a strong friendship, and the escort feels uncomfortable with continuing to see you as a client, talk about it with him. If he still feels uncomfortable, respect his feelings. A strong friendship should be valued.

 

I've met an escort on overnight appts. for awhile, and we've developed a friendship. I really don't make appts. with him anymore, but once in awhile I get together with him, his boyfriend and some other guys I've met through them and go out to a club. Or sometimes if I'm out alone I'll run into them and hang out with them for awhile. And we keep in touch by phone. It's a strange situation, but his friendship is more important to me than an escort/client relationship.

[guyinsf]

RE: Clarity

 

I, too, have had genuine friendships where I was either poorer or richer than the other person. I agree that just because I'm picking up the tab for the evening's activity (or vice versa) doesn't negate the friendship.

 

The reason I am suggesting that a real friend who is also an escort is not getting paid for non-sexual time has more to do with my situation than any hard-and-fast rule. Given that Steven, the escort who is my friend, has more disposable income than me, I think that if I were always paying for our activities together it would definitely indicate something about his interest in a friendship with me. Generally the more economically challenged of the group doesn't always pick up the tab! If I had a lot more money, I would pay for more of our activities together and I know that that, in and of itself, wouldn't negate the friendship. Of course not everything costs money and many activities are relatively inexpensive. I spend time just hanging out with friends in someone's apartment, or out having a cup of coffee, or taking a walk or something.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Yes. It makes sense. Well, to me at least~

 

I've always thought it possible to be both friends with an escort AND continue a working business relationship with them as well... at least for a little while. In my experience, the more time i've spent with my guys, the less the 'escort/business' side of things comes into play. It eventually flip-flops and they strictly become a friend, while no money ever changes hands again.

 

After awhile, it's a bit uncomfortable taking money from someone you perceive as a close friend. For me, the aspect of the 'business' relationship has to change. That cycle in itself allows me to eventually meet with new people, as i'm not keen on seeing more than 12 guys at any one time.

 

To me, it's a no-brainer to think that if you're spending a mass amount of time with someone, you're going to grow close to them. You're going to put trust into them. You're going to listen to them and in return, tell them things about yourself in confidence. It would be mighty tough for me to see a guy and mechanically go through the meeting without letting them know who i really am. It's just impossible (for me) and honestly, it would make me dislike escorting completely.

 

 

I'd burn-out in a heartbeat.

 

 

 

Warmest Always,

 

 

Benjamin Nicholas

[Bilbo]

RE: If on e person is always paying

 

Pardon me, but I couldn't help pointing this out. Odd reflection on the subject, perhaps according to most it's totally off subject, but my dearly departed mother would never let any of us pay for anything and it was very frustrating to the relationship in some odd ways. And now my illegal mother-in-law (husband's mother) is the same way!! Gah!

 

(Not to mention that she's a food pusher. For years, my Cub has referred to her house a fat farm where you go to put the weight on. I tried to keep her happy and at the same time protect him from it a bit this Thanksgiving, by giving in most - still not Quite All - of the time. I put on 5.5 lbs. in 5 days!)

[Will]

To me these seem wise words from a man who may be young in years, but who has obviously gained a lot of wisdom from his experiences in the world's oldest profession.

 

I'd like to offer two pieces to this conversation, both based in personal experience.

 

1. Among the first escorts I ever hired was a man in New York. I had made the appointments long in advance, as I was going to be in NYC for a week and wanted to have a repeat experience with this guy. He was great; we hit it off. But in the middle of the second night together, he got up, made a plausible excuse (that if he didn't leave, we'd talk all night and neither one of us would get any sleep), and left with a great deal of warmth. We corresponded after that, but he wouldn't see me again as a client. I was hurt and confused: after all, I thought, we like each other and my money is as good as anyone's. A couple of years later we had dinner, at his invitation. He brought along his boyfriend, who is an extremely hot escort, and we had a wonderful evening together. They even laughed about the fact that the first escort cannot bring himself to have sex with a friend. It turned out that that was the real reason he got up and left me that night. I had become "real" to him and that made it hard for him to maintain the kinds of fantasies that help him be a good escort. After all, many men hire escorts because the escort can fulfill a fantasy. Why shouldn't it work the other way around as well?

 

2. The second contribution concerns a now-retired escort whom I met only once. That meeting was fantastic, and I think it's fair to say that it was fantastic for us both. One reason is that we had fallen into an e-mail conversation about all sorts of things before we met face-to-face (according to him, we had exchanged over 70 e-mails) and therefore weren't really strangers to each other. Another reason is that we started talking on the telephone afterwards. While there was never the slightest suggestion on either of our parts that there was anything resembling a "relationship" in the works, from past experience I knew that there was a third thing going on. This wasn't a "relationship" and it wasn't a "friendship." It was a "mentorship," and as the older man, I was in a position to give him a lot of advice, to ask a lot of questions, and to help him clarify his long-term goals. He had the same effect on at least two other clients (whom, of course, I never knew); and eventually his long talks with the three of us led him to see that he was barking up empty trees both as an escort and in the career path he had chosen. Consequently, he retired and began to take both his personal life and his professional ambitions much more seriously. While I sincerely miss him, I also feel happy that we were able to be genuine with each other. I don't mind paying the escort for his services, not in the least. And it doesn't preclude authentic human closeness.

 

Many of us clients, I suppose, are old enough and wise enough to offer invaluable support to our escorts. They offer us a lot, too. It's my sense that it all evens out, eventually, so long as both people are both honorable and honest.