A Message To The Gentlemen Who Winge About Escorts Wanting Their Fee In Advance

[SteveEscort]

I have noticed on a number of occasions, over the last few years, on this forum, a number of guys who have told other gentlemen to avoid escorts who ask for their fee up front and that the mark of a good escort is one who waits until the end of the appointment for their money.

 

I don't necessarily agree with this but don't practice it myself unless the gentleman looks like the sort of guy who might rip me off. If he looks slightly out of place I will ask to sort the fee out at the beginning of the appointment, but as these appointments are few and far between, it's rare for me to request payment at the beginning of an appointment.

 

Yesterday, a lovely well spoken, well natured gentleman visited me at 6pm. About 52 years old, white hair, slightly portly, arrived in a reasonably nice car, chatty, fun, affectionate. I did everything he requested and more........ he was in for the full appointment, however he couldn't ejaculate and said "It's not your fault Steve, I had a wank before I came over, I was too excited by pictures of you in the yellow thong on your website". He was over his time as he left. I even ran a shower, handed him toiletries and made small talk about what I got up to that day.

 

As he left he got out his wallet and handed me less than 2/3rd of my agreed fee. When I questioned it, he said "Well I didn't get full service". I asked for my full fee and he refused. "I'll be back.... he said, you were good". I replied "So good you're not even a gentleman to give me the fee, we agreed over the telephone before you arrived". He started to explain once again that he didn't get the full service. I'd heard enough. It wasn't my fault, he was way over time and short changed me, because he had a wank before he arrived. I asked him to leave and told him not to contact me again.

 

I've read on this forum on many occasions about the general dislike of escorts who ask for their fee up front. At the end of the day, if you're a new client, we also don't know you any better than the guy in the next hotel room so please understand that we, as escorts, get ripped off and used like this.

 

This incident dismayed me. It's the first time it's ever happened and I have been around for a long time but it's made me realise just why escorts do ask for the money in advance, so next time you're criticising an escort for this practice, spare a thought for why they asked you in the first place.

 

I will still keep my wits about me when seeing new guys and base my judgement on whether I think they're trustworthy enough but this has made me question whether even the white collar types can be trusted to be the perfect gentleman at the end of an appointment.

[bigvalboy]

Well Steve I'm one of those guys who never pays the fee up front. In fact I can't remember the last time an escort asked for the money up front, if ever, however I have talked to countless escorts who have gotten burned by clients exactly the way you describe. It is a sad state of affairs, and sadly more common than many might think. Sometimes these escorts have traveled great distances distances to an appointment, or are working in a different city, and need to cover their expenses. From what many of these escorts have told me, it usually is from those that you would least expect it, like the well matured gentlemen in your post. I remember an escort telling me once that he got stiffed by this guy who was in his 80's, and on oxygen. He lived in a beautiful home in the Hollywood Hills, but at the end of the appointment, he just very casually said that he didn't get exactly what he had expected, and then said , "besides you were 10 min late" and just handed the escort half his fee. Personally I think it is unconscionable to stiff an escort.

 

So what is the answer? I just don't know. I'm unlikely going to change how I pay for escort services, and would resist paying for services in advance, even a deposit of some sort. I think that it is just the cost of doing business. I've been cheated out of commissions on real estate deals on numerous occasions. Sometimes it was from other agents and sometimes it was from clients. Once even from a friend of mine, who lied to me and then went behind my back, and gave the most lucrative part of our arrangement to another agent. Karma is a bitch sometimes, and in the end I often had options, but escorts rarely do.

[SteveEscort]

So what is the answer? I just don't know. I'm unlikely going to change how I pay for escort services, and would resist paying for services in advance, even a deposit of some sort.

 

I am not asking anyone to change their habits. I've even admitted in the post that I am not likely to change how I conduct myself but what I am asking for is for guys on here to stop criticising escorts who do ask for their fee up front. That's all I am asking and giving a good example why they ask for the fee up front. On numerous occasions I have seen posts telling others to beware of escorts asking for money up front. That attitude needs to stop unless there is proof that the escort is fleecing an client. It's because clients fleece escorts that escorts become wary and self preservation kicks in.

[adriano46]

This has been discussed often here and I just do not understand (from a client's side) what is the issue of having the fee "laid out on the dresser," or wherever, in clear sight, when the escort arrives? I do this ALWAYS when I am seeing an escort for the first time, no exceptions. I know the fee ahead of time, make sure I have the cash before I set up the appointment (so no need to run out at the last minute to find a Bancomat), and usually have the cash fanned out in an open envelope. In all my experience, every escort notices it, and not one of them touches it until we are done (and I usually hand it to the guy myself). BUT he knows the fee is there.

 

If I go to see a guy for a massage I usually pay at the end; I rarely ask for a happy ending, and no masseur has ever asked for the money up front (at least no masseur who I have used). I pay at the end because (especially in NY) there is a price difference among therapeutic, sensual and erotic massages and sometimes I might begin with one and (with mutual consent) move to another level.

 

In recent months, I have heard quite a few stories from escorts about being fleeced, cheated, stood up, insulted, abused and generally mistreated by clients. My own simple explanation is the complete erosion of any civil manners in US society, thanks in large part to our 24/7 spoon-feeding of mindless reality TV with people who seem to imitate whatever they see on what has truly become the "boob tube" or as they see acted out on social media. Sad really.

[Daverwr]

Only once has an escort asked me for the money upfront. I obliged. And, it was actually the worst experience I have ever had! When the gentleman saw that I was less than pleased with the outcome, he said, "See, that's why we ask for our money upfront!" (This was many years before I joined the Forum.)

[uwsman2]

One of the few times I was asked for payment up front the escort dashed from my hotel room and disappeared with the money before we got into anything. Thus burned, I am not interested in escorts who demand up-front payment.

[SteveEscort]

This has been discussed often here and I just do not understand (from a client's side) what is the issue of having the fee "laid out on the dresser," or wherever, in clear sight, when the escort arrives? I do this ALWAYS when I am seeing an escort for the first time, no exceptions. I know the fee ahead of time, make sure I have the cash before I set up the appointment (so no need to run out at the last minute to find a Bancomat), and usually have the cash fanned out in an open envelope. In all my experience, every escort notices it, and not one of them touches it until we are done (and I usually hand it to the guy myself). BUT he knows the fee is there.[/Quote]

 

I would say 75% of hotel clients have the money ready in an envelope, of them over half hand it to you within five minutes of entering the room. I always put the envelope in my inside jacket pocket and never count it. I know it's going to be correct. Occasionally there is a tip inside, if that's the case and I will send a quick text message within 10 minutes of leaving, thanking him for his gift and that I plan to purchase a nice bottle of wine on the way home to enjoy later on. A nice thank you for being kind.

In recent months, I have heard quite a few stories from escorts about being fleeced, cheated, stood up, insulted, abused and generally mistreated by clients. My own simple explanation is the complete erosion of any civil manners in US society, thanks in large part to our 24/7 spoon-feeding of mindless reality TV with people who seem to imitate whatever they see on what has truly become the "boob tube" or as they see acted out on social media. Sad really.

 

I must admit, I only hear stuff from the client side about being fleeced by escorts or having bad experiences because I don't tend to socialise with other escorts. This experience opened my eyes to being fleeced myself and I didn't like the experience.

 

One of the few times I was asked for payment up front the escort dashed from my hotel room and disappeared with the money before we got into anything. Thus burned, I am not interested in escorts who demand up-front payment.

 

I am sorry that happened to you, but as I've already reiterated, I don't ask for the money up front unless the client is a distinct problem from the moment we meet. You'll find that very few escorts ask for the money up front, in the experience that I encountered, I ended up providing a service, over and above what was expected then underpaid with a feeble excuse.

 

Only once has an escort asked me for the money upfront. I obliged. And, it was actually the worst experience I have ever had! When the gentleman saw that I was less than pleased with the outcome, he said, "See, that's why we ask for our money upfront!" (This was many years before I joined the Forum.)

 

Men and women come into this work for a variety of reasons, some are not as committed to the work as much as others and really couldn't care less, they see it as fast easy money, it's their own downfall because they don't last long, they don't get repeat appointments.

 

Those of you with the attitude of "I wouldn't pay up front" have you considered how many things in your day to day life you do pay up front for and don't come back to me with the nonsense that you don't pay for anything up front because over half the services you're provided with in your day to day life will be advance payment... Mobile phones, hotel reservations, theatre and pop concert tickets. All stuff you outlay with the promise of service but when it comes to a personal human service, you're suddenly uptight and offended by being asked up front. Just think for a moment about what you do pay up front for.

[+ Funguy]

 

Those of you with the attitude of "I wouldn't pay up front" have you considered how many things in your day to day life you do pay up front for and don't come back to me with the nonsense that you don't pay for anything up front because over half the services you're provided with in your day to day life will be advance payment... Mobile phones, hotel reservations, theatre and pop concert tickets. All stuff you outlay with the promise of service but when it comes to a personal human service, you're suddenly uptight and offended by being asked up front. Just think for a moment about what you do pay up front for.

 

Including your morning coffee: order, PAY, pick up coffee - they forgot that extra shot of espresso - make over!

[bigvalboy]

I am not asking anyone to change their habits. I've even admitted in the post that I am not likely to change how I conduct myself but what I am asking for is for guys on here to stop criticising escorts who do ask for their fee up front. That's all I am asking and giving a good example why they ask for the fee up front. On numerous occasions I have seen posts telling others to beware of escorts asking for money up front. That attitude needs to stop unless there is proof that the escort is fleecing an client. It's because clients fleece escorts that escorts become wary and self preservation kicks in.

 

Got it. Sorry.... I missed the intent of your post the first go round. I certainly understand your concerns.

[jimboivyo]

if more guys used their head in WHO they paid up front, they wouldn't find themselves in bad situations

 

don't pay a craigslist trick up front- duh.

 

read reviews and feel comfortable paying ahead of time if the escort is a known commodity. otherwise, all bets are off.

[SteveEscort]

Including your morning coffee: order, PAY, pick up coffee - they forgot that extra shot of espresso - make over!

 

Exactly. None of you get on a train or a plane and pay when you get off. None of you watch cable TV and pay afterwards. Who goes to a football stadium and pays after the game. Nobody pays for the groceries after they've eaten them yet you have such hang ups over escorts being prepaid.

 

Appalling attitude to have

 

I'm not saying anyone is wrong in not wanting to pay but what I am trying to educate you on is that even the best escorts are fleeced because they trust YOU and asking for a fee up front doesn't make it a bad appointment, them a bad escort or you a pushover.

[SteveEscort]

if more guys used their head in WHO they paid up front, they wouldn't find themselves in bad situations

 

don't pay a craigslist trick up front- duh.

 

read reviews and feel comfortable paying ahead of time if the escort is a known commodity. otherwise, all bets are off.

 

A very reasonable argument

[Steven_Draker]

Exactly. None of you get on a train or a plane and pay when you get off. None of you watch cable TV and pay afterwards. Who goes to a football stadium and pays after the game. Nobody pays for the groceries after they've eaten them yet you have such hang ups over escorts being prepaid.

 

Interesting analogy.

 

Inversely, when you dine out in a fine restaurant, you're expected to pay at the end, after services are rendered. It's inconceivable that the waiter asks you to pay ahead of time (unless you're at McDonalds)

 

Every business has to deal with "special clients", but in my case they are few and far between. Why the good guys have to suffer because of a few bad apples?

[TruHart1]

Escorting is still illegal in the United States

 

Hi Steve. I think you said that escorting in the UK is not illegal if I recall correctly. I have read opinions on other threads from US escorts/clients here on the message forum that by paying upfront, if the client happens to be an undercover cop, he has more grounds for arresting an escort for selling sex, whereas if money is not exchanged until the end of an appointment, the cop is 1) more likely not to follow through with any sexual activity in order to entrap the escort and 2) the legal loophole put forth about clients paying only for the escort’s companionship and time (however that may hold up as a defense in court) is much stronger. I do think you are in the right with questionable 1st time clients in requiring payment up front in the UK but you do not deal in a service that is illegal there like it is here in the US.

 

TruHart1

[SteveEscort]

Hi Steve. I think you said that escorting in the UK is not illegal if I recall correctly. I have read opinions on other threads from US escorts/clients here on the message forum that by paying upfront, if the client happens to be an undercover cop, he has more grounds for arresting an escort for selling sex, whereas if money is not exchanged until the end of an appointment, the cop is 1) more likely not to follow through with any sexual activity in order to entrap the escort and 2) the legal loophole put forth about clients paying only for the escort’s companionship and time (however that may hold up as a defense in court) is much stronger. I do think you are in the right with questionable 1st time clients in requiring payment up front in the UK but you do not deal in a service that is illegal there like it is here in the US.

 

TruHart1

 

I complete understand that and yes it's not illegal here but you've missed the point of the argument. It's not about escorts wanting money up front or at the end it's about educating clients why the practice can happen from time to time. No one is questioning escorts and the reasons for taking payment at the end. The posts is aimed at asking clients to be a little bit more tolerant of escorts asking for money up front.

[SteveEscort]

Interesting analogy.

 

Inversely, when you dine out in a fine restaurant, you're expected to pay at the end, after services are rendered. It's inconceivable that the waiter asks you to pay ahead of time (unless you're at McDonalds)

 

Every business has to deal with "special clients", but in my case they are few and far between. Why the good guys have to suffer because of a few bad apples?[/color]

 

I am not asking them to suffer. I'm asking them to change their attitude

[+ purplekow]

When I deal with an escort, I do not pay up front if asked to do so, however I always pay up front when I am not asked for it.

My inclination would be to always pay up front, but if an escort asks for it first, either he does not trust me or he is not worth my trust. Either way, it puts a damper on the situation and I choose not to pay and not to stay.

 

I owned and operated a walk in medical clinic and if I had the money which people stiffed me out of, I would have hot and cold running escorts every day of the week. Most professionals are not fully compensated until after the service is completed. I get my tax form returned and my bill at the same time. I received my will and my lawyer's statement at the same time. i pay the co pay to the doctor, usually up front because I do not want to wait afterwards but if I am having a procedure, I pay for that afterwards.

A professional escort will wait for his payment and accept the occasional deadbeat as part of the cost of doing business.

A hustler on the otherhand is all about the money.

A professional client pays up front at his discretion not at the escort's insistence.

[SteveEscort]

That's fine, you're not opposed to paying up front at your discretion but you don't think anything less of paying up front, as a rule, unless you were specifically asked, then you take offence. Escorts, however who do ask for the money up from are not necessarily trash, which is the general concescus on here amongst a number of guys. That's what I would like to stop.

 

The deadbeat you talk about and which was confirmed by another contributor is not necessarily a deadbeat either. The gentleman who stiffed me was a respectful clean cut man, not someone in cowboy boots on a stag trip weekend. The person who did this to me is the last person in the world I would expect to do this to me and why should I have to accept being short changed. It's like saying to a shop keeper, well most of the people buying beer will be nice but you're gonna have the odd deadbeat who robs the till or steals from the store, accept it. No I don't accept it and nor should I.

[hdgm]

Steve, I am a tax accountant and I bill after services are rendered. I have gotten cheated in the past and I will get cheated in the future. Does it piss me off, sure but I have no choice but to get over it. And, yes, it is never my low income clients but my high income clients who don't see a problem with paying six months after the fact if at all.

 

And I, being a nice guy, have been screwed over by "escorts". So you can keep your attitude.

[SteveEscort]

Steve, I am a tax accountant and I bill after services are rendered. I have gotten cheated in the past and I will get cheated in the future. Does it piss me off, sure but I have no choice but to get over it. And, yes, it is never my low income clients but my high income clients who don't see a problem with paying six months after the fact if at all.

 

And I, being a nice guy, have been screwed over by "escorts". So you can keep your attitude.

 

Oh dear me "attitude" Grow up please

 

You have the full weight of the law on your side, if you don't get paid. you can pursue these people for outstanding debts. Escorts can't

[natmas02]

Damn, I don't know why people on this forum are so hostile sometimes haha.

 

I usually leave the payment spread out on the table when the escort comes on, or if it's in the incall I place it on the nightstand after we talk for a minute - it shows that I'm serious and that I am there to hold up my end of the appointment. Simple as that. It should be very obvious within the first 5-10 minutes if the escort isn't holding up what was discussed or advertised.

 

The client and escort are both at risk here since both can not provide services, or payment without any real consequences but I find it funny that it's considered faux pas on these forums to speak ill about bad clients or asking for payment respectfully upfront when in setting up the appointment.

[SteveEscort]

Damn, I don't know why people on this forum are so hostile sometimes haha.

 

I think my subject has hit a raw nerve with many but it's shocked me that it's ok for an escort to be wronged but not a client, as I said earlier, an appalling attitude to have

 

I usually leave the payment spread out on the table when the escort comes on, or if it's in the incall I place it on the nightstand after we talk for a minute - it shows that I'm serious and that I am there to hold up my end of the appointment. Simple as that. It should be very obvious within the first 5-10 minutes if the escort isn't holding up what was discussed or advertised.

 

Yes I have an appointment this coming Tuesday that is a considerable distance from home (I have to get an suburban underground train then a mainline train to get to him) and he has it on the side and hands it to me as I leave. He knows I spend 2 hours either side travelling to him and I have never asked for a deposit.

 

The client and escort are both at risk here since both can not provide services, or payment without any real consequences but I find it funny that it's considered faux pas on these forums to speak ill about bad clients or asking for payment respectfully upfront when in setting up the appointment.

 

An escort friend said to me over drinks one night, "Clients are at real advantage over us, they think they can dictate terms and if you don't agree they write you a bad review, I wish there was a nationwide system where we could tell the world what they're really like".

 

Fortunately some sites do have a mutual feedback system like Adultwork. If anyone puts feedback in about me, I am also able to respond to the feedback and it's shown immediately on their account, thankfully I have never had any bad feedback on that site and it's the number one resource for gay male and female escorts in England.

[12is12]

Steve, I wouldn't have let him leave without paying 25% above agreed rate.

 

I also would've written down his car's number, and threatened to expose him if he didn't pay up.

[SteveEscort]

Steve, I wouldn't have let him leave without paying 25% above agreed rate.

 

I also would've written down his car's number, and threatened to expose him if he didn't pay up.

 

Over here that's called extortion lol and I can't see me being able to pull that one off successfully

[bdcjskm]

Steve, your client gives the rest of us hirers a bad name. I typically put the fee in an envelop that is clearly visible by the escort when they arrive. If it is an in call, I typically take the envelope out and sit it down someplace noticeable. I have never had an escort open the envelop and count before our time began. I have only had good experiences and count on that always being the case, for I am confident with the reviews I have read. Therefore, the escort will find there to be a very fair fee, when opened. There is absolutely no excuse for his behavior and I would suspect that that was always his plan. You would be well within your right to inform your colleagues of his moniker in case they should be contacted by him.