A MUST READ ARTICLE!!!. "sad social phenomenon that has infected the gay community"

[+ Amir]

http://stopracismandhomophobiaongrindr.wordpress.com/2012/07/20/the-igays-are-way-too-sick-turn-off-the-life-support/

 

WARNING: THIS POST IS ABOUT AS DARK AS I GET, DON’T READ IT WITHOUT HAVING YOUR GUARD UP. I’M ALSO WELL AWARE THERE ARE MORE ASPECTS TO GAY LIFE THAN JUST THIS PERSPECTIVE – BUT RIGHT NOW THIS IS THE ONE I’M GIVING SOME AIR TIME.

 

I literally have no hope left for the gay community. I’m 37, going on dead. I was born into a world of people, but I fear I will die in a world of internet-addicted, mindless animals. I came out in 1993, in Sydney, to a gay scene that was vibrant, colourful, out and proud. Here I sit not twenty years later, and the community has been decimated by the Internet. Completely, utterly decimated. As a whole, gays everywhere have become a sick group of animals who have completely lost their ability to interact on any authentic level, who have fearfully squashed themselves into simplified categories of drop-down boxes, and who banish entire groups of their own kind based purely on unwanted physical characteristics that do not fit the Gay-For-Pay Porn Model Image. We demand equal rights, but treat each other like sub-human animals, and worship the Straight Man as God-King.

 

We are an un-community. We have become a consumer product. We are the iGays. We have lost our souls. And we don’t even know it.

 

I have never felt more ugly, unworthy, and disgusting as I feel now. I have become so acutely self-conscious and lacking in esteem that if I actually venture out (despite this having become a pointless expedition of being ignored and judged, and watching small groups of gay males ignoring other small groups of gay males), I’m too uncomfortable to even dance anymore. I have no joy left in my life, because I have lost hope that I will ever share my life with another person. I look at other gay men, older than me, who have literally given up on life, and I used to condemn them, revolted by their apathy, but I am starting to understand them, understand why they feel so ripped off by this existence. They are labelled “bitter old queens”, but they deserve love and respect. Not everyone is strong enough to “keep on keeping on” in the face of this monstrously soulless life that is called Gay.

 

After having consumer culture rammed down our wide-open, cum-drenched throats for decades, after being heteronormalised to the point where we deride our own selves for being “gay”, our only desire has now become this:

 

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c313/edvin2love/amir/tumblr_m7fpzo8E3A1r35cm6_zpsd97103fc.jpg

 

 

It doesn’t matter what any of us look like – fat, ugly, beautiful, handsome, young, old, white, African, Asian, or whatever – THIS is the only acceptable partner for our lives. And if this is the ONLY ACCEPTABLE OPTION, then we are in a really bad state, because there is simply not enough of these Adonis Fantasy Men to go around.

 

We no longer see human beings and learn to love them, explore them, lock eyes with them and feel the exhilaration of romance and falling in love. We just log on to Grindr, the gay slot-machine, and repeatedly “load more guys” waiting for a jackpot that will never come. We are addicts, just like any common gamblers addicted to their machines. It doesn’t matter how many beautiful, similarly-tortured, like-minded souls send us a message, because unless they are this dude above, we are simply not interested.

 

We ignore, block, or prick-tease our way around our fellow brothers-in-pain, compounding the sense of self-hatred onto ourselves, and projecting it onto others. We salivate over these perfect guys, (perfect on the outside, not anywhere else), who exist only on our screens in porno fantasies. We throw ourselves repeatedly at them, we have childish tantrums if they ignore or reject us, and we pull our hair and wail about our accursed single-lives.

 

We deny our true desires, and claim we want only NSA FUN, because we don’t want to look needy and desperate, BUT THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT WE ALL ARE. It’s also really convenient to claim we’re “not after a relationship” because it makes our job so much easier when we “accidentally” forget to message that last fuck back. There was nothing wrong with him, he was hot and sexy and made us cum, but he wasn’t our jackpot, he wasn’t our Knight in Shining Hot Top Masc Str8 Acting Armour come on a white horse, torso exposed, muscles rippling, cock large thick and hard, ready to pound us endlessly into a multi-orgasmic nirvana happily ever after till Cher turns back time (eeew a gay icon, that’s so gay, it’s making me soft to think about her! REAL MASC MEN ONLY. NO HOMO. NO FEM.)

 

We have denied an entire half of our sexuality (our versatility, the fact that we have a cock AND a hole) and become addicted to bottomness, searching endlessly for the Hot Masc Top to save us, refusing to ever supply the pleasure we are addicted to receiving. We have shoved ourselves into heteronormative gender roles of masculine and feminine, man and woman, husband and wife, top and bottom, big spoon and little spoon, pitcher and catcher, top bunk and bottom bunk, and LITERALLY HATE OURSELVES for it. Oh, we claim we are versatile, but first opportunity it’s legs up and open high in the air, come save me Top Tarzan Man! If we allowed ourselves some love and romance, as we once did, in our fledgling days of true pride, we might fall for a man deeply enough to want all of him, and to want to give all of ourselves, not just our holes. But nope! Our sex addicted bottom-selves won’t allow this, (after all love and romance, those aren’t “masc things”, those are girly concepts, right?), and it’s easier to just BLOCK, PULL THAT LEVER, LOAD MORE GUYS, JACKPOT? BLOCK, PULL THAT LEVER, LOAD MORE GUYS…

 

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c313/edvin2love/tumblr_m7fpowzWwx1r35cm6_zps16c6b9fe.jpg

 

BLOCK. PULL THAT LEVER. LOAD MORE GUYS…. and then pull that trigger because right now, in 2012, a bullet seems preferable to looking at another headless, soulless torso with the word MASC written above it.

[tyro]

Uh, this isn't just the gay community. This sounds like what all straight women are instructed to do before they hit puberty.

T

[bigvalboy]

Amir first of all, thank you for posting, but I'm sitting here heart racing, a bit sad, and frustrated at your post, because I have to acknowledge that for many in the LGBT community, they see themselves just as you describe, and many of my friends feel exactly as you do, but for many more, myself included, we just don't look at ourselves, our lives, our community in such a manner. I don't now, never have, and hopefully never will, look at my world in that context. We all make a choice as to how we look at life. We make it everyday we get up, and look at ourselves in the mirror.

 

For me, my life and all that is around me, friends, family, my community, who I am, how I view the world, and how I see myself fitting into this world, is something that I celebrate. I will spare you the dozen or so cliché comments that are in my head right now, as they really do nothing to further an important topic as this, and 'one liners' are not really helpful.

 

It's probably not realistic, but part of me would just love to sit with you sometime and talk this out. For me, such a serious subject as this, prevents me from discussing it in any detail, in this limited and often judgmental format.

 

You gave many of us here much to think about, and I for one appreciate you coming forward and posting, and wish you only the very best in the New Year.

[+ azdr0710]

I think I agree with what BVB is, in a subtle way, saying.....

 

this guy writes really well, but I think he is taking it all too seriously.....everybody has a story.....some gay guys worry about this hook-up stuff, others don't.....I wonder if the writer is insecure about himself, and/or just had a bad hook-up, and frustratingly had to write this essay.....

 

as you say, Amir, there's much more to gay life than these hook-ups.....but thanks for posting this well-written concern that many have

[Diverdan]

Amir,

First, thanks for posting this. I hope this is not how you feel about life, because if it is, I am with BVB... would love to talk to you and reflect on how this has come to be. I do know some friends who feel this way, but most of my gay and bi friends have come to terms with their situation and are living very productive and rewarding lives. Some are married to women, and some are in life-long committed relationships with other men, have adopted children or arranged to have children with surrogate mothers. I am one of the older posters on this forum, and there have been times that I have been discouraged in my life, but have been able to see the opportunities that life provides. I am old enough to have lost many friends to AIDS, some of whom were married and their wives, children and extended families had no idea that they were gay. Those were very difficult funerals to attend. So, if you feel like talking, send me a PM and I'll give you a call and also plan to meet you when I am in your area. If this does not reflect how you feel, them accept my apology for jumping to the wrong conclusion.

DD

[+ cougar]

This post is not how Amir feels, he just copied and pasted the article in the link. I agree so much with that posting. I had an old friend to make a very profound comment about the guys we would see at the club.

He said..."Most of these guys are a 5 or 6 and think they are a 10 and looking for an 11"

I find the younger generation would rather have complete conversation through a text and I worry how this world will be when they are older and did not develop their social skills in person.

[bigvalboy]

This post is not how Amir feels, he just copied and pasted the article in the link. I agree so much with that posting. I had an old friend to make a very profound comment about the guys we would see at the club.

He said..."Most of these guys are a 5 or 6 and think they are a 10 and looking for an 11"

I find the younger generation would rather have complete conversation through a text and I worry how this world will be when they are older and did not develop their social skills in person.

 

Well if that is true, then I do feel better and apologize for thinking otherwise. Either way, the article stands on its own merit, and it makes me sad to think that gay men in our community actually have those negative feelings about themselves and life in general.

[fedssocr1]

I think this applies to society in general, not just the gay community.

 

There are still plenty of real world places out there to meet people. Maybe meeting people who share you interests first is more important than looking for some one to date. And then there's that whole thing about "you have to love yourself first..." which I believe still applies. I see plenty of couples out and about who make me scratch my head a little bit at first. But then I think, good for them for finding each other. As long as they are happy it's none of my business. For example I have a friend I play soccer with who is incredibly hot. Early 30s South Asian guy who works out a lot and rides his bike everywhere. His bf is an older white guy who is probably in his late 50s or 60s at least who is not what you would consider classically good looking or especially in shape looking. But their relationship works for them. My point being that there are all sorts of guys out there who are into all sorts of different things/people.

[+ Amir]

This is NOT my personal view point nether do I feel this way about myself or love in general. However it is a sad reality for alot of people in the gay community. I also do believe that we create our own reality but for some its not so easy to separate themselves from our judgmental culture. I feel that this article brings an awareness to a growing epidemic in the gay community. I wish it weren't the case.

 

Amir

 

Amir first of all, thank you for posting, but I'm sitting here heart racing, a bit sad, and frustrated at your post, because I have to acknowledge that for many in the LGBT community, they see themselves just as you describe, and many of my friends feel exactly as you do, but for many more, myself included, we just don't look at ourselves, our lives, our community in such a manner. I don't now, never have, and hopefully never will, look at my world in that context. We all make a choice as to how we look at life. We make it everyday we get up, and look at ourselves in the mirror.

 

For me, my life and all that is around me, friends, family, my community, who I am, how I view the world, and how I see myself fitting into this world, is something that I celebrate. I will spare you the dozen or so cliché comments that are in my head right now, as they really do nothing to further an important topic as this, and 'one liners' are not really helpful.

 

It's probably not realistic, but part of me would just love to sit with you sometime and talk this out. For me, such a serious subject as this, prevents me from discussing it in any detail, in this limited and often judgmental format.

 

You gave many of us here much to think about, and I for one appreciate you coming forward and posting, and wish you only the very best in the New Year.

[+ Amir]

EXACTLY. thanks cougar.

 

 

This post is not how Amir feels, he just copied and pasted the article in the link. I agree so much with that posting. I had an old friend to make a very profound comment about the guys we would see at the club.

He said..."Most of these guys are a 5 or 6 and think they are a 10 and looking for an 11"

I find the younger generation would rather have complete conversation through a text and I worry how this world will be when they are older and did not develop their social skills in person.

[bigvalboy]

This is NOT my personal view point nether do I feel this way about myself or love in general. However it is a sad reality for alot of people in the gay community. I also do believe that we create our own reality but for some its not so easy to separate themselves from our judgmental culture. I feel that this article brings an awareness to a growing epidemic in the gay community. I wish it weren't the case.

 

Amir

 

Well thank you for the clarification. It was a very interesting perspective, and gave me and others a reminder on how so many in our community see themselves. You are certainly correct, we all create our own reality. How people, young and old come to this reality is very disturbing to me.

[+ Amir]

Your apology is accepted I should have specified that it was not my personal viewpoint when I posted it. But an important one. It saddens me as well to think that so many men out there that feel insignificant and fall to this type of pressure.

 

Well if that is true, then I do feel better and apologize for thinking otherwise. Either way, the article stands on its own merit, and it makes me sad to think that gay men in our community actually have those negative feelings about themselves and life in general.

[bigvalboy]

Your apology is accepted I should have specified that it was not my personal viewpoint when I posted it. But an important one. It saddens me as well to think that so many men out there that feel insignificant and fall to this type of pressure.

 

Thank you Amir...

[Newly]

Although this site probably isn't the best place for this, I think there's a lot of truth in that article. I've cringed in the past when posters have called escorts fat or ugly or what not, even though its obvious that other members are attracted to them. In my own case I'm often attracted to people that aren't conventionally handsome and I've also found that when I like someone they suddenly seem much more attractive to me. In a world of scruff, a4a and grinder where all that counts are quick one liners and superficial beauty I wonder what the future holds. Sure, some of this infantile behavior happens in any segment of the population, but if one were honest they would agree that the gay world seems to be obsessive about youth, hotness and the number of sexual conquests they can claim. Its almost as though there's a believe that if you bag enough young, hot guys you will somehow have proven something besides the fact that you have a lot of money to spend.

[JoeyBryant]

Fact: Most of the profiles on Grindr appear better than they actually are. It kills me how some guys look SO good on their grindr profile, and then meet them in person it's like night and day. I was tickled when I seen a Grindr pic of a guy I met. He so cleverly made his pic in a way that hid his shortcomings. I would have found it a little misleading had I not met him already before seeing him there. Another reason to avoid it. You get that 1 glamor shot, and the rest of the pics are shit. The site seems to almost favor rejection lol.

 

I'm on there, but for the same reason someone would go to the local piece of shit, hole in the wall dive bar down the corner...or the uppity straight franchise bar that's a restaurant by day, a place to be around drunk White women and straight guys at night. It's just something to exercise your eyeballs. That's the other issue. Too many people on there, not really even wanting to meet anyway.

 

I assume the original author of the post wasn't referring strictly to Grindr...but I assume it's the included 'similar' sites as well. In all honesty, I don't THINK gays are really being turned into these monsters. But, I feel that when you group us together on these sites, we become monsters. Anti-social, picky, socially handicapped little gremlins. People don't respond when you hit them up, they just sit around waiting for you to make the move. And then when you do, first response is, "pic?"

[+ FreshFluff]

Excellent article, though I think the author overstates the point a bit.

 

IMO, this is mostly do to the advent of the Internet and mobile apps. Online dating has created a "candy store" environment. As the article said, the guy you met may well be hot and sexy and intelligent, but with grindr and other services, but why commit to him when a better guy might pop up on grindr or Match.com tomorrow?

 

IME, this is mostly a big city phenomenon. In small towns, the online dating scene is smaller and more static, so people can commit without thinking that some perfect partner is going to join next week. Is that true of the gay community as well?

[Steven_Draker]

It sounds like the author of the article is desperately looking for love in a place designed for fast sex.

 

Grindr superficial? ... you bet.

[+ Amir]

I totally agree Freshfluff. You hit the ball on the head. I see this madness going on alot here in LA and NYC... I have friend that is addicted to his grindr and will pull out his phone during dinner and start grinding out of the blue telling me about this guys hot that guys not.. Ive scolded him many times about how rude it is, but I now see that there is a deeper underlying issue here.

Excellent article, though I think the author overstates the point a bit.

 

IMO, this is mostly do to the advent of the Internet and mobile apps. Online dating has created a "candy store" environment. As the article said, the guy you met may well be hot and sexy and intelligent, but with grindr and other services, but why commit to him when a better guy might pop up on grindr or Match.com tomorrow?

 

IME, this is mostly a big city phenomenon. In small towns, the online dating scene is smaller and more static, so people can commit without thinking that some perfect partner is going to join next week. Is that true of the gay community as well?

[+ Charlie]

As I read this piece, what struck me most was that although this starts as a subjective "I" perspective, he quickly turns it into a "We" perspective, as though he is speaking for an entire gay community. Undoubtedly there is a slice of the gay community that thinks, feels and behaves the way he describes here, but I don't think his generalizations are true of gay men as a whole, nor of the majority--maybe not even of a significant minority. When I was young and sexually driven, I tended to think that the men in the urban gay club scene were completely typical of gay men in general; it took me a long time to realize they were a small subset of a much bigger and more varied picture. Whenever another venue for gay marriage opens up in this country, such as the one in Salt Lake City last week, I see photos of men flocking to get married, and there is hardly a gorgeous hunk among them, just normal-looking human beings who have somehow found one another, just like straight couples. When the marriage license offices were opened here in California right after the SCOTUS decision finished off Prop. 8, my partner and I found our local office full of couples, of all ages, colors, sizes and types, hardly any of whom would have been recruited by a gay porn producer. Then a couple showed up--both young, tall, incredibly handsome, perfectly groomed and with spectacular bodies--and the rest of us stared at them. I caught the eye of another man waiting online, and said, "I'll bet they met at the gym," and he responded, "Yeah, and the marriage probably won't last as long as the gym membership." Too cynical perhaps, but I knew what he meant.

[+ poolboy48220]

I caught the eye of another man waiting online, and said, "I'll bet they met at the gym," and he responded, "Yeah, and the marriage probably won't last as long as the gym membership." Too cynical perhaps, but I knew what he meant.

Reminds me of Dan Savage talking about Reichen and Chip, the gay couple who won an early season of "The Amazing Race" - "Their marriage lasted approximately 3.5 seconds after cashing the winner's check".

[Steven_Draker]

Statler: "I'll bet they met at the gym"

Waldorf: "Yeah, and the marriage probably won't last as long as the gym membership."

 

http://wearemoviegeeks.com/wp-content/uploads/ttt_statlerwaldorf2.jpg

[Steven_Draker]

Back to the topic of dating mobile apps and our gay community

 

The truth about Grindr

by Michael Bennett

 

"When I began to consider the possibility of coming out as a gay male, I imagined the announcement would trigger a series of predictable phases. First, there would be a bit of a shock. A handful of friends would be surprised. Some would say they knew all along. Some would simply congratulate me. Then, there would be the embrace. I would be welcomed into the gay community, a world full of rainbows and hugs and all that jazz.

 

This all happened, to an extent. But really, the first thing I vividly remember about joining the gay community was a series of messages on Grindr.

 

“Sorry, not into chest hair.”

 

“You look real masc.”

 

“Sup, otter?”

 

Some of you are probably just as confused as I was at the time. What the hell is an otter? Why in the world are you abbreviating the term “masculine?” Is this a thing? This was my virtual introduction to the categorical homogenization of Pittsburgh’s homosexual community. It wasn’t rainbows. There were no hugs. Just a group of guys jumping to label me as a certain type of gay male.

 

Granted, grindr was not best place to start. For those of you unfamiliar with this whole ordeal, grindr is a location based smartphone application that displays the closest gay/bi/closeted/married men based on their proximity. Press the orange box, and thumbnail images of torsos, height/weight statistics, and petty ramblings on personal preferences appear on your screen. As empty and dense as it was, this was initially the most convenient way for me to interact with other gay men.

 

After performing as a straight male for upwards of 20 years, I suddenly had higher standards for my body image, speech, and fashion than I had ever experienced in the heterosexual community. Was I in good enough shape? What is it, exactly, that makes someone masculine? I had this urge to mold my identity into this projected ideal image of a gay man. Why? So that so that someone’s thumbnail image of a torso would talk to me. I was getting a glimpse into the societal pressures that heterosexual women feel every day, forced to live up to the body image standards of men.

 

And I had it easy. I wasn’t being labeled a bear or cub, or being blocked because of my skin color, or being called names like queen, fairy, or fem. There are plenty of people who suffer from body image issues far worse than mine. Who wake up every day thinking they’re inadequate or undesirable because some anonymous profile deemed them as such. Who are driven into the same suicidal thoughts that they attempted to extinguish by coming out in the first place.

 

As much as we can’t let grindr represent the entire gay community, in some ways it acts as a fairly candid microcosm for the scope of homosexual categories, social behaviors and desires, perhaps presenting an even more brutal honesty than the porn industry. (Many feminist scholars, most notably Catharine MacKinnon, delve heavily into how pornography tells us a lot about pure, or at least blunt sexual desire). There are plenty of gay men don’t associate with grindr, but many who do contribute to a terrifying introduction to the world of gay social interaction.

 

Grindr is a virtual world of avatars, most of which strive to project that they possess the qualities of the ideal, desirable gay man.

 

A place where black men white-out their picture in attempts to pass as white men.

 

Where people claim to be straight, or “straight-acting” to attract other gay men.

 

Where femininity is masked and degraded, and masculinity is cherished and sought after.

 

Where overweight men either embrace obesity to align with a “bear” or “cub” identity, or are told to lose weight.

 

Where young homosexual men are told to identify as top or bottom, white or black, jock or bear, twink or otter, masc or fem.

 

Men who spent the entirety of their childhood being bullied by straight guys, are being told that if they act straight, they’ll be more sought after in the gay community.

 

Black men who spent their whole lives terrified in behind the closeted doors of the African-American community, and hindered by white privilege, are being asked to pass as the very race that degrades them.

 

Tops are idealized. Bottoms are degraded. Gym regimens are requested. Height-weight proportions are mandatory. And here I am wondering: is this what Dan Savage meant by “It gets better?”

 

Surely, coming out of the closet can be relieving, life-changing, or even life-saving. And in reality, the gay community can be remarkably accepting. But as the movement for gay rights has reached what many consider to be the height of its progression, we still have a long way to go. Perhaps, if more men are encouraged to be open about their sexuality, we can take more steps to break down the homogenization that hinders a community that should be united in establishing a welcoming, anti-discriminatory environment for its own members.

 

Moreover, we can view this desire to homogenize the gay community as a product of childhood bullying. Growing up surrounded by straight boys who degrade femininity—whether it be women or gay men—has imprinted the masculine, muscular white man as an ideal image to the homosexual male. And now, gay men can’t help but pass on the detestation.

 

Part of me wants to blame it all on the heterosexual community caught up in the traditional masculine/feminine gender roles. But as much as they can be held responsible, and should realize that their bullying destroys thousands of lives, the gay community should also step forward to put a stop to its own alienating habits. Why should we ask straight men to stop degrading femininity if we can’t follow our own demands?

 

If you’re reading this and debating whether to come out of the closet, don’t let this scare you. Coming out is as relieving as it is terrifying. Just be prepared to take a stand against discrimination, and embrace your own identity.

 

If you’re a straight male, hopefully you’ve learned a little about how you might have unknowingly contributed to discrimination in a community other than your own. Stop bullying, and start allying.

 

If you’re an out and proud gay male, do your part to fight the norm. You can advertise your sexual preference without making others feel alienated or unwanted.

 

It gets better, but there’s surely room for much more improvement."

 

 

source: http://mbennett16.kinja.com/on-grindr-closeted-discrimination-within-the-gay-comm-1455038162

[+ FreshFluff]

IMO, the preference for "masc" guys is nothing new. From reading books like Gay Metropolis--about gay culture in NYC before 1980--and watching films like Boys in the Band, it seems that masculine guys have always been sought after while feminine types had a harder time finding partners. (Would be interesting to hear more about this from the guys who were actually there 30 years ago.)

 

The same guys who are getting blocked on grind today might have been ignored in bars 30 years ago. Grindr just made the market more efficient and, as mentioned above, creates a "kid in a candy store" environment.

[dfw2sfo]

There was a therapist here in NYC who committed suicide in 2012 who seemed to get too caught up in the superficial and aging in particular. Interesting how some get tunnel vision and imagine the entire gay population is this way. Though they may see the average joes out there as losers, it's unfortunate people aren't better exposed to a wider variety of people who are happy and reasonably content.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/fashion/the-life-and-death-of-the-therapist-bob-bergeron.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[Rod Hagen]

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/fashion/the-life-and-death-of-the-therapist-bob-bergeron.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

Thank you for posting this article. I'd forgotten about it but found it fascinating and sad when it first went up.