OUT !!!!

[Godiva]

Who determines when someone is "Out"? Is it the gay community (GC), the straight community (SC)...Who!!! A few examples..

 

There is a very popular R&B singer who is currently in the hospital (you can figure it out). As my friend put it..It is well known in the Black community that he is gay and that he has a "Partner". Now since the gay community hasn't really exposed him and the white community hasn't a clue..is he considered OUT??

 

Rosie and George Michael ..I believe that every community knew..But were they considered "OUT" then or only when they both came forward and adressed the media.

 

Richard Chamberland..The gay community knew yet I think the straight community was suprised..Was he only considered "OUT" after he came forward to the recent press..

 

Nathan Lane (who I love), Harvey Firestein(sp). Althought I personally haven't read or heard them say they are gay I am certain the straight community thinks they are..so are they "OUT" or do we have to wait for them to hold a press conference..

 

Mark Daulton..He claims he doesn't know his preference, The gay community is mixed on him but the straight community probably thinks he is gay based on his catering to the gay community..So is he considered "OUT" or do we have to wait for him to hold a press conference or do a sexual video with another male performer..

 

Then of course there are those guys like Porn God "Rex Chandler". He is on film getting rimmed, getting sucked and fucking guys..Now I thought he was gay..I am certain that any straight person thinks he is gay but I read that he says he is straight ..is he considered "OUT" or are we waiting for that press conference..

 

Lastly if someone is gay and they never admit it to anyone and they die ie: like quite a few Hollywood Legends of the past..can they ever be outed or is it too late..

 

Remember these are my experiences..If I am wrong.. please feel free to educate me but don't forget my over all point..Who determines when someone is "OUT"?? Does it have to be a combo of both the GC and the SC..Is it only what the SC believes? or is it what the GC knows?? or is only after the "press conference" when it is acknowledged and affirmed by the individual..

[+ Lucky]

I do.

[jackhammer91406]

I agree, Lucky determines it. if he says it, it is so.

 

 

;-)

[+ deej]

Billy Masters keeps the official list.

 

:+

[Michael]

Since most people are not "celebrities", the question of "press conferenes"

and the gay and straight "communities" doesn't really arise.

 

For an individual the question is quite simple - what percentage of the

people that you *know* are aware of the fact you are gay

- that number, from 0 - 100 is how "out" you are.

 

Celebrities are a difficult case because, while millions of people may

*think* that they "know" them, in reality they don't.

 

>Richard Chamberland..The gay community knew yet I think the

>straight community was suprised..Was he only considered "OUT"

>after he came forward to the recent press..

 

I didn't *know* that Richard Chamberlain was gay (how could I,

all I really know about him is that he's an actor), but I wasn't

surprised either.

 

>Nathan Lane (who I love), Harvey Firestein(sp). Althought I

>personally haven't read or heard them say they are gay I am

>certain the straight community thinks they are..so are they

>"OUT" or do we have to wait for them to hold a press

>conference..

 

Actually, Nathan has said so (although only fairly recently)

and Harvey (who hardly needs to say so) probably got tired of

sayin it 20 years ago and (correctly) thinks that he doesn't

need to bother any more.

[+ Charlie]

A celebrity is out when his/her orientation is affirmed by the media, either through evidence (Rock Hudson) or his/her own admission (Rosie O'Donnell). A non-celebrity is out when he/she announces or admits it to straight people.

[mmk]

I consider a person to be truly "out" when they do two things.

 

1)When a person goes into a gay bar or a gay establishment for the first time. (Some people might not look at that as being a big step but it truly is.)

 

2)When telling either a family member or a close friend who you consider to be a family member.

[taylorky]

>

>Then of course there are those guys like Porn God "Rex

>Chandler". He is on film getting rimmed, getting sucked and

>fucking guys..Now I thought he was gay..I am certain that any

>straight person thinks he is gay but I read that he says he is

>straight

 

 

i don't know who rex chandler is,but i do know if he's having sex with guys ...............he ain't straight.......taylor@23:27-06/22/03

[Guest ncm2169]

But he may be "str8 acting." }(

 

Seriously, Taylor, ever heard of "gay-for-pay" guys? Yeah, it happens, more than you may realize. :9

[taylorky]

>But he may be "str8 acting." }(

>

>Seriously, Taylor, ever heard of "gay-for-pay" guys? Yeah, it

>happens, more than you may realize. :9

 

 

 

 

 

straight acting........grrrrrrrr

:-)

 

i don't buy into that "if you give me money i'll fuck ya but i'm not gay" bullshit. i,m gay i,m into guys not chicks, my dick gets hard for guys not chicks,if i was straight it would be chicks not guys that cause wood, and if i was bi {which i believe is a real orientation} it would be both . but as you can't be a vegan and eat meat,you can't be straight and get it on with your own gender...taylorduhooooooooguys@24:17-06/23/03

[Trixie]

RE: Lucky to be out

 

Yes, I think if Lucky got to decide who was "out", the world would be much more interesting.

Lucky, I have a short list of celebrities and athletes I would like to see outed. After you've declared them out, could you also fix me up with them? One at a time, of course, Miss Trixie is not that decadent.

But for regular Janes like you and I, I think the deciding factor is one's own heart. And it comes in stages. When one finds the courage to make contact with other gay people, go to clubs, talk about one's life in terms of being homosexual, that's the first step. Then, step two is reconciling one's newfound society with one's former life of family and friends...this doesn't always turn out the way we hope for. At best, the two worlds are integrated...but most of us must settle for a precarious balance. Being out does not always mean being comfortably accepted.

Finally, being out takes a mellower (hopefully) tone in life, as being gay is just part of who one is in day to day life. One can use the pronoun "he" to total strangers in conversation when refering to one's same-sex partner. Or, when among a group of straight guys who're ogling a woman, one can say "Yeah, but check out the guy she's with! Yowza!"

Being "out", I sometimes think, means finding a sense of humour about Life.

For celebrities, divulging one's sexual preference is probably more dicey. Each of us should reflect on how difficult it was to tell our friends and coworkers about ourselves, and then imagine that fear multiplied by one million. That must be what's like to say "I'm gay" in an interview in the national press.

Speaking of being outed, whatever happened with that episode with Tom Cruise and the gay porn star??

Trix

[+ deej]

Taylor, it happens.

 

Just as I know vegans who will sometimes eat meat, and strictly observant Jews who will sometimes eat meat with dairy, I know straight men who will have sex with men for money.

 

It happens.

 

Open your mind, kiddo. There's room in this world for all of us. Even you.

[chrismac]

Taylor - deej speaks the truth.

 

I've had sex with women (I SHOULD have been paid!x( ) - but I'm pretty damn sure I'm gay. But close my eyes, get me in a dark room with a women who knows how to suck dick properly - and that thing does seem to have a mind of it's own. And the warm soft insides felt pretty good too.

 

But women can't kiss for shit. That would always wither me up real fast if she wanted kissing - I had to wait strategically 'till the end.

 

But otherwise, it can happen. Look at sex in prisons. It can be about power (or in the "gay-for-pay" scenario, money), not just desire.

[CT Dick]

Taylorky, here is Rex Chandler:

 

http://www.arsenalvideo.com/images/c/chandler-rex.jpg

 

He made a number of gay porn videos. He also acted in str8 porn as Peter North.

 

I don't agree with your statement that "if he's having sex with guys ...............he ain't straight."

 

The more I see, the more I believe that there are guys who don't label themselves (the Rio de Janeiro sauna guys, the Bel Ami Slovakian actors, the Thai dance boys) but just do it (for money) if it feels good, as in gay-for-pay. I think gay is a state of mind, not just actions.

 

Dick

[Guest jeffOH]

Dick

 

This is Peter North(straight porn name)aka Matt Ramsey(gay porn name).

http://search.excaliburfilms.com/pornlist/malepics101/pternorth.jpg

 

As far as I know, Rex Chandler has always used the same name.

 

I know some "gay-for-pay" guys who say that they ONLY have sex with men when they're getting paid. Men make more money doing gay porn than straight where the women make the real bucks. I assume that's the draw.

 

JEFF

jeff4men@hotmail.com

[VaHawk]

I disagree with you on this one taylor. Lots of "straight" guys have sex with men, even if they aren't getting paid to do so. There are plenty of men out there for instance, who love to get their cock sucked by guys, but don't do anything else. Just because a "straight" guy likes to get his cock sucked, it doesn't make him either a "suppressed" gay or bi.

[+ deej]

Dick, here's another shot of Rex Chandler:

 

http://www.atkol.com/covers/view-to-a-thrill.jpg

 

He's actually still involved in the industry. He shoots many of the box covers in your local porn emporium and publicity stills you'll see in magazines.

 

As Jeff says, Peter North is someone entirely different. He did gay porn as an active (and very good) bottom and I'm told to this day claims it was stunted or electronically altered. (Hello? They didn't have the technology back then!)

 

In SOME cases in porn, the guy is using porn as an excuse -- a permission slip if you will -- to try what he really wants to try. But there really are str8 guys who are only there for the paycheck. As costars, they're rarely popular with cast & crew.

[Guest DevonSFescort]

>i don't buy into that "if you give me money i'll fuck ya but

>i'm not gay" bullshit.

 

I do. When working, most escorts, regardless of their orientation, have sex with people they otherwise wouldn't on their own time. And although I consider myself for all (non-profit) intents and purposes totally gay, there are some women who are more attractive to me than some men. Sometimes clients ask if I'd ever let a woman or a tranny hire me, and I don't see why not. While I'd feel compelled to be truthful with her about the limits of my heterosexual experience (two or three isolated drunken make-out sessions that we laughed about the next morning) or of my tranny experience (none that I can think of), I think I'd give it the old college try as long as she was okay with it, which, come to think of it, doesn't sound very likely. There just aren't a whole lot of women and trannies spending a whole lot of money on male escorts. That's why the straight boys who want to make money off their bodies have to find some way to be comfortable with making themselves available to men. Most of them put more restrictions on what they'll do than most gay escorts have for their clients, which I can understand; if I were to be hired by a woman I might tend to draw the line, for example, at eating her out, unless I was overwhelmed with curiosity at the last minute. That last statement probably didn't do much to boost the likelihood of me getting hired by a woman.

 

If, against the odds, female clients suddenly start hiring escorts in significant numbers, you'll quite likely see more gay escorts crossing over into straight-for-pay work (along with, no doubt, at least some exodous from the gay-for-pay camp by the straight boys), and I don't think it will mean that their default orientation isn't towards men. That straight guys are willing to do gay-for-pay is a reflection of the fact that men spend a lot more money on sex, porn, etc. than women. (On the other hand, is it possible that straight-for-pay and gay-for-pay escorts could, over time, find their sexuality evolves and opens up to some degree? Maybe.)

[Guest DevonSFescort]

I think "out-ness" is something that gradually progresses over a continuum. In all the examples you cite the person is to at least some degree more out than s/he would be otherwise, but not necessarily as out as s/he will be tomorrow. In a sense many of us never stop coming out, though there tend to be fewer big milestones and it tends to be a more effortless and less self-conscious process as time goes by. Little things, like you make an appointment with the plumber for him to come fix the sink and say "I won't be here, but my boyfriend will let you in." Voila, you've come out to the plumber, just as a man saying his wife would let him in (so to speak) is a hetero variation on "coming out." But by that point it's probably a far less dramatic experience than, say, telling your mom. Sometimes the driving force behind a particular "outing" comes from the person coming out himself, and sometimes, as you have pointed out, it's from outside forces. Sometimes it's accidental and sometimes it's deliberate. Sometimes it's for the right reasons and sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's an act of celebration and sometimes it's a cause for scandal. As in all aspects of life, sometimes a chain of events gets set into motion.

[taylorky]

well guys i don't agree with y'all........but what the hell.

 

oh by the way it sure is nice of deej to say that even though i disagree with him that.......i'm still allowed to live in this world.pffffffftttttt taylorsothankfulforhiscontinuedexistenceintheworld@22:39-06/24/03