Is obesity a disease?

[marylander1940]

Obesity a disease?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/19/health/ama-obesity-disease-change/index.html

I would like to hear specially for all the obese guys on here, and know if they agree it's a disease or not.

[instudiocity]

Obesity a disease?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/19/health/ama-obesity-disease-change/index.html

I would like to hear specially for all the obese guys on here, and know if they agree it's a disease or not.

I would say that's too broad a definition - My judgement is that Obesity is a common result of a multitude of diseases.

 

One person's hormonal disorder resulting in overeating isn't the next person's metabolic disorder resulting in an inability to burn calories efficiently. Some people observed to be obese are later found to have tumors causing the obese appearance.

 

That said, the AMA is in my mind one of the biggest perpetuators of obesity. Rather than coaching us to exercise more, count calories, figure out our personal body types and how we react to certain foods, the AMA tends to push pills.

 

Thankfully, my endocrinologist cusses and yells at me to get more exercise and cut down on my portions all the time. What my 25 year old godson can eat in one meal is a full day's calorie count for this 57 year old. But his metabolism is higher, he needs more calories than I do.

 

It's the curse of our prosperity that we can afford more food (calories) more often and once we've built our appetite through our early years, it is hard for us see a regular burger as sufficient when we could be doing the 1/3 pounder.

[McLeanspider]

It's the curse of our prosperity that we can afford more food (calories).

 

I understand your point of view but in the USA usually fat people are also poor, the cheapest food is usually the unhealthiest choice. If you go to Appalachia and our cities ghettos you'll see a lot of overweight children.

 

We know what's good and bad for us to eat and it is up to us to make a choice but what if we can't afford vegetables and have to end up at McDonald's over and over again. You can easily tell a wealthy family by simply looking at the wife, if she's in shape, it's very likely to be an upper class family. Have you notice that redneck wives are usually fat?

[Decatur Guy]

I think obesity dwells in the intersection of disease and lifestyle. It seems pretty clear that some people can "get away" with eating lots of fatty foods, sweets, carbs, etc., more than others. (Heck, I could get away with it a lot better 10 years ago than I can today). I'm not commenting on the long-term wisdom of doing that, but just observing some people can eat that way and not be anywhere close to fat.

 

At the same time, it's pretty clear people make eating and exercise choices that make a weight gain tendency much worse.

 

I can't tell you how many times I've been to dinner with a friend, who at one point in the conversation exclaims how remarkable it is I haven't gained a lot of weight (as he or she has), only to order an appetizer, an entree, dessert and alcohol while I order two appetizers or one entree and water. And to a person, they never put it together (at least out loud) that they consumed easily twice the calories and spent three times the money I did.

 

P.S.: I'm not a paragon of physique healthiness. I've never had a six pack (though there have been times my stomach was almost flat). I have skinny arms, something of a belly, a butt that's starting to droop and chest fat. But at 5-11 and 172, I'm reasonably HWP. It used to come somewhat easily. Now I have to really work at it. I don't think I have it in me to flattened my stomach and muscle up, but I am going to aim in that direction. Right now, I'll be happy with less stomach and chest fat and a little more muscle. I'm an avid walker, but I start to fall apart after that.

[Decatur Guy]

I understand your point of view but in the USA usually fat people are also poor, the cheapest food is usually the unhealthiest choice. If you go to Appalachia and our cities ghettos you'll see a lot of overweight children.

 

We know what's good and bad for us to eat and it is up to us to make a choice but what if we can't afford vegetables and have to end up at McDonald's over and over again. You can easily tell a wealthy family by simply looking at the wife, if she's in shape, it's very likely to be an upper class family. Have you notice that redneck wives are usually fat?

 

I've noticed a tendency among poorer white families in the South for the women of the family to be very overweight while the men of the family are often rail thin, and not in a healthy way.

[McLeanspider]

I've noticed a tendency among poorer white families in the South for the women of the family to be very overweight while the men of the family are often rail thin, and not in a healthy way.

 

The same happens in West Virginia a lot, miners are skinny and their wives are overweight.

[+ Gar1eth]

The other problem of course is the super sizing of portions. Big Gulps and the like did not exist when I was a child. There were no quarter pounders- hamburgers were thin patties on smaller buns. I also am not sure if there were free drink refills. Along with the loss of the family sit down meal, less physical activity, we have increasing portion sizes snuck in on us by tr fast food industry. Soon where once 2 small McDonald's hamburgers were a normal meal, now it's two quarter pounders or two Big Macs that are normal. Our expectations of normality have changed. That's why I was for Mayor B's proposal in NYC. Of course I don't live there. I still would above been able to get my Big Gulp

 

Gman

[craigville beach]

I believe that, for some, the issue is a mental health problem.

[instudiocity]

I understand your point of view but in the USA usually fat people are also poor, the cheapest food is usually the unhealthiest choice. If you go to Appalachia and our cities ghettos you'll see a lot of overweight children.

 

We know what's good and bad for us to eat and it is up to us to make a choice but what if we can't afford vegetables and have to end up at McDonald's over and over again. You can easily tell a wealthy family by simply looking at the wife, if she's in shape, it's very likely to be an upper class family. Have you notice that redneck wives are usually fat?

I would submit that it's more an educational issue about the correct dietary lifestyle. McDonald's isn't cheaper than a home-cooked meal. It's not lower in calories nor healthier. It's more convenient. Hell, MickeyD's puts SUGAR in their buns!

 

Along with the education comes understanding that frying foods is unhealthy. Another point is that fresh vegetables are less expensive than frozen or processed vegetable, but they require home-cooking because no restaurant can make money selling fresh veggies for 3 times the store price. But fried and processed foods are the worst thing you could eat.

 

One rule of thumb I like to use is only shop on the perimeter of the supermarket. Think about the way most stores are set up, fresh produce along the wall yielding to fresh dairy to fresh butchering to fresh bakery. All that crap in the center of the store is the PROFITABLE stuff - processed, frozen and marked up.

[Guest]

One person's hormonal disorder resulting in overeating isn't the next person's metabolic disorder resulting in an inability to burn calories efficiently. Some people observed to be obese are later found to have tumors causing the obese appearance.

 

That said, the AMA is in my mind one of the biggest perpetuators of obesity. Rather than coaching us to exercise more, count calories, figure out our personal body types and how we react to certain foods, the AMA tends to push pills..

 

Where did you get the information that the AMA "pushes pills" rather than encourage healthful lifestyles? Hormonal disorders resulting in overeating are extremely rare, and tumors even more rare. Of course, obesity leading to hormonal disorders is very common (diabetes mellitus, PCOS, etc.). As for whether obesity is a disease, Merriam-Webster's medical definition of a disease is ": an impairment of the normal state of the living animal or plant body or one of its parts that interrupts or modifies the performance of the vital functions, is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms, and is a response to environmental factors (as malnutrition, industrial hazards, or climate), to specific infective agents (as worms, bacteria, or viruses), to inherent defects of the organism (as genetic anomalies), or to combinations of these factors." So in the sense that overeating is a form of malnutrition, I would have to say that obesity is a disease. (They define malnutrition as "faulty nutrition due to inadequate or unbalanced intake of nutrients or their impaired assimilation or utilization.")

[+ deej]

I would submit that it's more an educational issue about the correct dietary lifestyle. McDonald's isn't cheaper than a home-cooked meal. It's not lower in calories nor healthier. It's more convenient. Hell, MickeyD's puts SUGAR in their buns!

 

There's sugar in most bread. HTH

 

It's far more than just educational. Availability plays a big role, too. There are areas of the country where the only food available is the unhealthy kind.

 

It seems unthinkable to those of us who live a lifestyle comfortable enough to afford hiring male escorts, but we are living above the median. Many neighborhoods do not have a local Safeway (or equivalent), and oddly enough those are the neighborhoods where residents also can't afford cars to drive the many miles to the nearest outlet for fresh produce (or decent meat, etc.).

 

In my own snoozy little town in southern California there are various high-end groceries and even farm stands where I routinely buy fresh produce and high quality meats. To get there I drive past the neighborhood "Fruteria y Carniceria" and see locals walking in. Those locals are at the mercy of whatever they find inside and having been inside it isn't the best quality. Kraft Mac & Cheese looks pretty good when the alternative is brown meat!

 

So in addition to tackling education (which is hampered, by the way, by kids sitting in class unable to concentrate because they're hungry), let's tackle poverty and distribution.

 

The problem is far too complex to pass it off with a one-and-done solution on any front.

[+ purplekow]

Some obesity is a result of disease. Some obesity is a result of mental illness. Some obesity is related to cheap convenience foods being the mainstay for many diets. Mostly obesity is a result to eating too much and not exercising enough, classifying it as a disease makes it seem that obest people are victims of something beyond their control and for the most part, we are not.

[+ FreshFluff]

Is addiction to tobacco a disease? If not, it's unclear why obesity should be. In any case, I've heard this discussion before, but how does defining it as a disease or not help solve the problem?

 

That said, the AMA is in my mind one of the biggest perpetuators of obesity. Rather than coaching us to exercise more, count calories, figure out our personal body types and how we react to certain foods, the AMA tends to push pills.

 

I don't know about the AMA itself, but most people I know who have sought diet pills found that it was difficult to get doctors to prescribe them, probably because of the potential for addiction. Instead, they tend to recommend calorie management and portion control. Doctors do often prescribe statins, but those are for a different problem that isn't necessarily caused by obesity.

[Guest]

Is addiction to tobacco a disease? If not, it's unclear why obesity should be. In any case, I've heard this discussion before, but how does defining it as a disease or not help solve the problem?

 

 

 

I don't know about the AMA itself, but most people I know who have sought diet pills found that it was difficult to get doctors to prescribe them, probably because of the potential for addiction. Instead, they tend to recommend calorie management and portion control. Doctors do often prescribe statins, but those are for a different problem that isn't necessarily caused by obesity.

 

I think the idea is that defining it as a disease will put pressure on insurance companies to cover its treatment. The reason that doctors are reluctant to prescribe diet pills is that they have limited efficacy and are only FDA-approved and studied as safe for short-term treatment. Long-term use has been associated with cardiac problems (as are more potent amphetamines). There are newer--safer and more effective--weight-loss medications coming out, and there is great hope for them. I bought Sanofi-Aventis stock when I thought the FDA was going to approve Accomplia, a fairly safe weight-loss medication in use in Europe. I ended up losing money when the FDA gave it a thumbs down (a minor problem of suicides noted in those taking the medication), although I've since regained my investment back. Interestingly, we can often get insurance coverage for diet/exercise programs in children, but rarely can we get an insurance company to even pay for the relatively minor cost of a gym membership in adults.

[Samai139]

I believe that homosexuality was once defined or described in psychiatric lists as a "disease." Today and for several decades it has not.

Media reports say that 37-40% of Americans are obese. The charts that I have seen which give weight ranges for obesity, might shock some who pay little attention to their poundage. (I"m overweight by their definition and perhaps even close to being obese---thank heaven I'm not morbidly obese!!)

My point?? Times change, people's attitudes change, even laws change.

Personally, I am apprehensive when an organization/government/whatever attempts to solve a problem by re-definig it.

Our culture has shifted in the past 50-100 years from one that produces and prepares most of its own meals to one that depends on prepared food and eating out. Out culture has shifted from one where many had to physically work hard to earn a living to one where many are moving very little in the course of the day.

Every-day conveniences are wonderful but they relieve us of MOVING----two simplistic examples? Remote controls for television and for opening garage doors. Add cars, golf carts, escalators, valet parking, and we modern homo sapiens are morphing into flabby bi-peds.

I am not suggesting that we move backwards and live as 19th and early 20th century people did. That's not possible. But all of us can and should adjust our lifestyles to stay as healthy as possible. The change in this country toward cigarette smoking in the last 40 years certainly is remarkable and yes I realise that changing laws had a lot to do with that as did increased taxes and awareness that smoking leads to cancer and other diseases.

If adding obesity to a list of recognized "diseases" does anything to help solve the obvious problem we Americans are facing, fine.

[Guest boiworship08]

I understand your point of view but in the USA usually fat people are also poor, the cheapest food is usually the unhealthiest choice. If you go to Appalachia and our cities ghettos you'll see a lot of overweight children.

 

We know what's good and bad for us to eat and it is up to us to make a choice but what if we can't afford vegetables and have to end up at McDonald's over and over again. You can easily tell a wealthy family by simply looking at the wife, if she's in shape, it's very likely to be an upper class family. Have you notice that redneck wives are usually fat?

 

Very good points. The late Paul Fussell, in his book Class, stated that one's weight is an advertisement of one's social class.

[Guest boiworship08]

There's sugar in most bread. HTH

 

It's far more than just educational. Availability plays a big role, too. There are areas of the country where the only food available is the unhealthy kind.

 

It seems unthinkable to those of us who live a lifestyle comfortable enough to afford hiring male escorts, but we are living above the median. Many neighborhoods do not have a local Safeway (or equivalent), and oddly enough those are the neighborhoods where residents also can't afford cars to drive the many miles to the nearest outlet for fresh produce (or decent meat, etc.).

 

In my own snoozy little town in southern California there are various high-end groceries and even farm stands where I routinely buy fresh produce and high quality meats. To get there I drive past the neighborhood "Fruteria y Carniceria" and see locals walking in. Those locals are at the mercy of whatever they find inside and having been inside it isn't the best quality. Kraft Mac & Cheese looks pretty good when the alternative is brown meat!

 

So in addition to tackling education (which is hampered, by the way, by kids sitting in class unable to concentrate because they're hungry), let's tackle poverty and distribution.

 

The problem is far too complex to pass it off with a one-and-done solution on any front.

 

Sounds like my seaside village.

[BaronArtz]

I've noticed a tendency among poorer white families in the South for the women of the family to be very overweight while the men of the family are often rail thin, and not in a healthy way.

 

Being really skinny like that could be the result of alcoholism. Especially if they are skinny but with a somewhat bloated abdominal area.

[instudiocity]

We know what's good and bad for us to eat and it is up to us to make a choice but what if we can't afford vegetables and have to end up at McDonald's over and over again. You can easily tell a wealthy family by simply looking at the wife, if she's in shape, it's very likely to be an upper class family. Have you notice that redneck wives are usually fat?

i can buy vegetables to feed four for a day on the price of one super sized McDonald's meal. It's a matter of priority of convenience over preparation.

 

Where did you get the information that the AMA "pushes pills" rather than encourage healthful lifestyles?

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2013/06/19/study-70-percent-of-americans-on-prescription-drugs-one-fifth-take-5-or-more/

[instudiocity]

There's sugar in most bread. HTH

Allow me to elucidate my point about McDonald's adding sugar to their buns. I'm not speaking of the naturally occurring sugars in the grains used to make the bread through the reaction of the yeast with those grain sugars. I am saying that PAST THAT NATURALLY OCCURRING SUGAR, McDonalds adds raw sugar (maybe they've switched to high fructose corn syrup) to increase the addiction kids have to MickeyD's food. They are doping their buns with sugar for a chemically enhanced flavor profile that pleases their customers. HTH

[Epigonos]

I’m convinced that as a child I was what clinicians today would call A.D.D. (Attention Deficit Disorder). When I was in elementary school my mother would rap me on the back of the head, tell be to sit down, settle down, shut up, and do my homework. Now to the relief of many of parents A.D.D. has been determined to be a disease. Thus working parents are relieved from the responsibility of disciplining, and overseeing major aspects of their child’s upbringing. Their child has a disease and therefore society and the schools are required to accept responsibility for addressing the child’s problem. After having successfully taught high school for thirty six wonderful years I’m convinced that many of the diseases discovered during the last fifty years have been the creative product of the active minds of PhD. psychology candidates. We now have a virtual alphabet soup of new and exciting diseases. The unfortunate result of these discoveries is that parents are assuming less and less responsibility for their children’s upbringing and are transferring those responsibilities to the schools and other government institutions. The results are not pretty. A good number of public school children are over medicated and out of control. I really don’t understand why parents should be relieved from the responsibility of bringing up their own children.

 

Now as regards obesity I feel much the same way. Many complain that their obesity is not caused by poor personal choices but rather by the fact that they have a disease. Once it is determined that they have a disease and are ill personal responsibility for their actions is eliminated. It isn’t their fault that they are obese – they are ill and society MUST take responsibility for curing them. Thus we see Mayor Bloomberg in New York attempting to regulate the size of sugary drinks people may buy. We hear dietary activists attempting to have the government force fast food purveyors eliminate supersizing. One elementary school principal in Los Angeles Unified School Districts attempted to ban home lunches. She claimed that school lunches were healthier and thus the children should be forced to eat them. Fortunately she lost that battle. We hear these same arguments when it comes to alcoholism and drug addiction.

 

Now I’m going to say some things that will undoubtedly send some of you ballistic so get ready to come and get me. This entire line of thinking is pure BULL SHIT. People need to take responsibility for their own choices and actions and not expect society to take care of them. I know the term “Nanny State has been overworked but I am terrified by the idea that that is exactly what the U.S. is becoming and what the long term results will be.

[Guest]

Where did you get the information that the AMA "pushes pills" rather than encourage healthful lifestyles?

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2013/06/...ake-5-or-more/

 

That article doesn't even mention the AMA--or obesity. It doesn't even discuss whether or not physicians talk about healthful lifestyles. It has essentially nothing to do with your statement.

[seeker630]

Allow me to elucidate my point about McDonald's adding sugar to their buns. I'm not speaking of the naturally occurring sugars in the grains used to make the bread through the reaction of the yeast with those grain sugars. I am saying that PAST THAT NATURALLY OCCURRING SUGAR, McDonalds adds raw sugar (maybe they've switched to high fructose corn syrup) to increase the addiction kids have to MickeyD's food. They are doping their buns with sugar for a chemically enhanced flavor profile that pleases their customers. HTH

 

My loaf of Pepperidge Farm Hearty White has high fructose corn syrup added. It's almost ubiquitous.

[Epigonos]

The MacDonald’s sugar in the buns comment brings to mind a story a friend told me many years ago. He and his wife were visiting Budapest, Hungary for the first and decided that they needed a MacDonald fix. While eat their burgers a very well dressed gentleman approached an introduced himself as the MacDonald’s Vice-President for European operations. He simply wanted to inquire if they found the Budapest food the same as at home. As they talked he told them that hardest part of the MacDonald burger to duplicate abroad was the bun. When they first started operations in Great Britain they went to an established bakery and gave the baker their recipe for the buns. He immediately complained that there was too much sugar in the recipe. The MacDonald people said never mind that was how they wanted it. For several months things went along fine but then people began to complain about the bun. When the baker was asked if he had changed the recipe he readily admitted that he had cut the amount of sugar in the dough. They requested that he return to their recipe which he did but again after several months the same problem arose. MacDonald ended up terminating their contract with the baker and decided that they would have to set up someone, who was NOT a baker, in business to produce their bun and that is exactly what they did.

[unsub2O17]

A brief personal anecdote. For most of my adult life, I think I qualified as massively obese (5'7" and 240#). Then, about 7 years ago (long after I'd given up even trying to lose weight), I started a hobby that called for more activity and thinking about things besides food (and the obvious "other"). I started to lose without noticing. Finally, I noticed and started doing things like keeping a food diary, eating slower, portion control, stairs--no elevator, parking far away from stores--you get the idea. It wasn't easy, but I started to believe that it was possible. It took over a year, and I did have one severe electrolyte imbalance, but it was amazing how much better I felt overall--especially, in my case, orthopedic-ally. I hadn't even realized how compromised I had been. Long story short: today I weighed 119#. I watch what and how much I eat. I eat slowly. I never eat out of habit or continue to eat just because others are eating. Did I have a disease that I recovered from? For me, it seems to have been mainly in my head. Something as simple as observing my eating habits really made a difference.