How to avoid Entrapment via email, txt or phone when setting up appointments.

[+ HeyDude]

As a "novice" client it would be helpful to have current

practical advice regarding the question: How to avoid Entrapment via email, txt or phone when setting up appointments with an escort or masseur?

Particularly when negotiating for sensual/erotic massage, the

words that are used to define expectations can make both parties vulnerable to entrapment.

I've looked at archived threads on this subject. It would

Be helpful to have a concise, current and

Practical UPDATE !!

Thanks in advance.

[down_to_business]

You can't. Law Enforcement and Big Brother are archiving your calls, texts, and emails. That doesn't mean that they will ever get around to viewing/listening or investigating them. Just look at today's headlines about the "spying program" of the NSA.

 

Even worse, if it is a police sting you randomly wander into, there is a historical basis for saying the cops might say you did something even if you didn't and its your word against theirs. So you can and should view hiring as high risk, low risk behaviour and you need to decide how much risk you are willing to take.

 

Examples of high risk: Hiring unknown escorts off of Craigslist and Backpage. Having phone conversations with "escorts" where money and/or specific acts are discussed. Hiring escorts that don't kiss.

Examples of lower risk: Hiring only multiply well-reviewed escorts. Never discussing money and any sexual act in the same email or phone conversation. Avoiding escorts and agencies that process credit card transactions and have record keeping requirements.

[bigvalboy]

You can't. So you can and should view hiring as high risk, low risk behaviour and you need to decide how much risk you are willing to take.

 

 

Examples of high risk: Hiring unknown escorts off of Craigslist and Backpage. Having phone conversations with "escorts" where money and/or specific acts are discussed. Hiring escorts that don't kiss.

 

Examples of lower risk: Hiring only multiply well-reviewed escorts. Never discussing money and any sexual act in the same email or phone conversation.

 

Exactly....I like the analogy of "low risk" and "high risk"

[tom1980]

Any words you might use to clearly convey to a masseur that you are seeking a sexual experience will convey the same message to a police officer. I think what you are looking for is a way to avoid a charge of "solicitation of prostitution" rather than "entrapment."

 

If a police officer asks you if you want to purchase a sex act, that is generally not considered entrapment because it is an open ended question that does not induce the "solicitor" to do anything he would not normally be willing to do. If you say "No" and the officer then tries to talk you into purchasing a sex act, that attempt to convince you to do something you were not willing to do may well be construed as entrapment.

 

The safest approach is to avoid talk of anything that might be construed as illegal. Only offer to pay for time or legitimate massage from a licensed massage therapist. You can probably safely ask the masseur whether he is comfortable with "mutual touching" or kissing but be prepared to offer a legally appropriate explanation of exactly what you wanted to touch/kiss if you are truly worried about a sting. Asking if the masseur offers "release" or using similar well known "code words" can get you arrested the same as asking for a hand job because cops know (and can prove) that such terms are synonymous.

[+ HeyDude]

Why is Hiring escorts that don't kiss, a high risk for entrapment?

[down_to_business]

Why is Hiring escorts that don't kiss, a high risk for entrapment?

 

This just comes from personal conversations with 2 different vice cops I knew. They were willing to do a lot of things to make an arrest but kissing another guy wasn't one of them.

 

FYI if you ask a cop if he is a cop, he can and will absolutely lie to you.

[raife]

Thirty plus years of hiring here, often from Craigslist, Backpage and other local papers and sites, (and from "hustler" bars and "cruising" before the Internet age) and less than ten "suspicious" encounters wherein I took my own advice and left quickly. No arrests to date.

 

Your intuition is your most valuable asset. If you're going into a new situation, make sure you're on high alert and if something doesn't feel right, apologize and get the hell out of there.

 

Pay attention to which cities are known for setting up prostitution stings. Las Vegas, for instance, has a reputation for entrapment so be extra careful (or, like me, avoid completely... not worth it). Verify that "payment afterwards" is acceptable. Watch for red flags such as the escort opening with specific descriptions of sex acts, or being excessively terse or businesslike. Be very suspicious of escorts doing incalls at a motel room. get a room yourself instead. Try to select a motel other than one the escort first suggests. Avoid "screeners" who make appointments for the escort.

 

Asking if they kiss is indeed a great filter, then you can start with a kiss and embrace upon first meeting, even before discussing the session. If they pull back, you have an excellent reason to apologize with "I don't think this is going to work" and leave quickly.

 

Best advice, find some great regulars and don't change it up too often.

[corndog]

When hiring a masseur, I usually go strictly by what is said in their ad, both overtly and using "code words." I never ask any questions other than those necessary to schedule a time. I'll sometimes say something like "I saw your ad on massagem4m; are those prices and the description of your services still accurate?"

 

Part of the thrill of a getting a massage is anticipating the unknown and going with the flow. Once the massage has started, if they're doing a crappy job of massage, I know that they're usually more about the sex. If the massage is obviously skilled, I just go with it and see if anything happens, but I'm happy either way.

 

I think that it would be nearly impossible for cops to entrap a massage client if sex is never discussed.

[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

Why is Hiring escorts that don't kiss, a high risk for entrapment?

 

Not just for entrapment, but also high risk for disappointment. For some clients, that is worse than entrapment.

[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

Another thing I always do the first time I hire someone, upon arriving and before discussing anything (other than, "I'm Sam"), especially if at a hotel, I ask if I can use the bathroom. That will reduce the chances of someone waiting for you there. It also provides an extra confirmation for personal safety.

[+ Gar1eth]

People say not to discuss- but there is almost no way this can always be done. The American Italian Israeli Soldier Rentboy Coverboy of the day (Sunday) from Portland doesn't mention really any specific sex acts in his ad, and when I called him wouldn't mention anything he was into in the conversation. When I tried to talk about what I liked and if he was into it- he said something like 'Hello Mr. Policeman'. So yes I understand playing safe conversation-wise. But the guy is a 3 hour drive away from me. I'm not going to drive 3 hours or more to see a guy if I don't even know if he's straight/gay/bottom/top/oral/no oral/kisser/no kisser.

 

http://www.rentboy.com/Listing.aspx?lid=378830

 

 

By the way- in case anyone was wondering, I'm not a cop.

 

Gman

[+ azdr0710]

Best advice, find some great regulars and don't change it up too often.

 

 

yes, this is the best advice....but I know it's hard to stay away from those tantalizing new guys that appear one in a while.....

[Frequentflier]

 

By the way- in case anyone was wondering, I'm not a cop.

 

Gman

 

Really? Didn't consider that until you denied it.

 

I like another posters comments starting with 30 years of his experience, well reviewed guys (I'd still make them at least kiss before relaxing too much), gut instinct, etc. As well, many on this board have advised that you should assume your play partner has something you don't want to catch, so use a condom, and further that safe encounters means assuming the other guy is a policeman until he does something to gratify/please you (i.e, the aforementioned kissing). Any communication about money prior to that is stated as being for someone's companionship/time only.

[+ Gar1eth]

Any communication about money prior to that is stated as being for someone's companionship/time only.

 

Who wanted to discuss money? I wanted to know if we two consenting adults of our own free will were compatible. But since he wouldn't talk about what he was into or list it on Rentboy. I'm either going to have to wait for someone to take one for the team- or as I suspect, he's probably straight and I'm well off without meeting him.

 

Gman

[Jscott]

Perhaps it might be equally helpful to post how to determine whether or not an escort will perform the acts you want. As GMan wrote, why drive 3 hours (or for that matter, shell out $200-$300) if you don't have a "guarantee" of sorts, or as close as one can get since we can't predict chemistry, mood, etc.?

 

I understand the need for discretion, protecting both escort and client. But "any money exchanged is for time only" just doesn't cut it. It's called an oral (or should that be anal?) contract for a reason, lol

[tom1980]

The closest thing you can get to a guarantee is using a well reviewed escort. Contracts for services that are illegal (whether they are written, oral, or anal) are automatically void.

 

Personally, I prefer to discuss no activities and simply settle on the escort's/masseur's rate for his time before we meet. Once we meet and things gets underway and I'm sure he isn't a cop or fraud, I will start to ask about what he enjoys and talk about the things I enjoy. If I cannot get a sense of whether the escort and I would be compatible from reviews and the ad, then I usually do not hire.

 

When I hire a guy who does not have any reviews for the first time (which is relatively rare, but I figure someone has to write the first review), I am fully prepared to pay for his time or therapeutic massage only. If we end up sitting there talking for an hour or if I only get a therapeutic massage, I pay the rate we agreed upon without complaint. I'll tell you, this situation has never occurred with an escort and only happened a couple of times with a masseur. But I've also never been arrested and plan to keep it that way.

[raife]

Perhaps it might be equally helpful to post how to determine whether or not an escort will perform the acts you want. As GMan wrote, why drive 3 hours (or for that matter, shell out $200-$300) if you don't have a "guarantee" of sorts, or as close as one can get since we can't predict chemistry, mood, etc.?

 

I understand the need for discretion, protecting both escort and client. But "any money exchanged is for time only" just doesn't cut it. It's called an oral (or should that be anal?) contract for a reason, lol

 

If the escort balks at discussing what he will/won't do, I just usually describe myself and state my list of expectations in vague terms: I'm looking for "full service" "versatile" "roleplay" "roughplay" "fetish" "kissing" etc and put the onus on him to tell me no if there's something on the list that he finds "personally distasteful". If no information is forthcoming, the only way I'll consent to a date is if he'll agree to allow me to call it off in the first few minutes if we can't negotiate activities (or if the chemistry's weak). Usually if he's that reticent, I'm on to the next prospect on my list anyway.

 

If I'm traveling, I tend to call around and make sure there's someone else that would be OK to see me on short notice if Mr Main Event falls through. There's too many flakes and no-shows these days to trust a travel evening on a new hire of unknown reliability. As Epigonos said in another thread, it's all about research and communication.

[Frequentflier]

Who wanted to discuss money? I wanted to know if we two consenting adults of our own free will were compatible. But since he wouldn't talk about what he was into or list it on Rentboy. I'm either going to have to wait for someone to take one for the team- or as I suspect, he's probably straight and I'm well off without meeting him.

 

Gman

 

Hi Gman. I wasn't referring to your specific situation so please don't take any offense. I absolutely would, like you, want to know what to expect before driving or flying to see someone, or booking a hotel room for the get together. I see a subsequent post to this thread with one of several good ways to address what we like and however you did in your example was probably fine as well. From reading your posts, you know what you're doing

 

Hey, given your previous denial, why to we call you "Gman"?

[+ HeyDude]

"Once we meet and things gets underway and I'm sure he isn't a cop or fraud, I will start to ask about what he enjoys and talk about the things I enjoy" ...Tom

 

Tom,

What kind of "things get underway" that provide you with assurance the guy is not

a cop...? This is the crux of the matter and most difficult

for a novice (like me)

Thanks.

[Guest verymarried]

Im workin a guy on Adam right now. It seems too easy. It's almost like someone has dreamed up my type and is waiting out there for me to ask. He's saying yes to every question I have and asking me nothing. This thread has me nervous and wary.

[geoffk]

I know this doesnt help but i have to say that a couple of times a guy i have hired pushed me up against the wall and started kissing me upon entering my room to see if I was a cop. NOW that is HOT!

[Epigonos]

You know guy I’m convinced you’re making too much of a big deal about this entire matter. I’ve been hiring now for ten plus years and have never had a problem. If, however, you are really concerned about being set up then simply follow two easy rules. One: Hire only escorts with multiple, positive reviews on this site. This is as foolproof as possible. Two: If the guy doesn’t have any reviews here then hire him ONLY if he is very explicit in his ads regarding what he will and will not do sexually. This is damn near foolproof.

If you are still in a panic regarding being set up THEN DON’T HIRE. ABSOLUTELY foolproof!!!!!

[tyro]

I know this doesnt help but i have to say that a couple of times a guy i have hired pushed me up against the wall and started kissing me upon entering my room to see if I was a cop. NOW that is HOT!

 

Hellz yeah that's hot!!

T

[+ Gar1eth]

Im workin a guy on Adam right now. It seems too easy. It's almost like someone has dreamed up my type and is waiting out there for me to ask. He's saying yes to every question I have and asking me nothing. This thread has me nervous and wary.

 

In the Regular or Pro section? If in the Regular section, why worry?

 

Gman

[+ azdr0710]

yes, an immediate deep kiss is a good idea to weed out the cops!....but tell the guy ahead of time you might be doing this so he doesn't pull away in a sorta repulsed, freaked-out way, even if he says he kisses....

 

and, to repeat, do not mention sex and sex acts in association with money at all during the meeting....in fact, don't mention money at all during the meet....make all money arrangements ahead of time, including the fact you'll be paying at the end of the meet.....you'll have to be sorta discreet in the initial planning emails/phone calls when discussing what you want to do, sexually, at the meeting.....takes some practice, I suppose