How to avoid Entrapment via email, txt or phone when setting up appointments.

[down_to_business]

Im workin a guy on Adam right now. It seems too easy. It's almost like someone has dreamed up my type and is waiting out there for me to ask. He's saying yes to every question I have and asking me nothing. This thread has me nervous and wary.

 

As others have said, following your "gut" can be the best line of defense you have. If it doesn't feel right, don't do it.

[bostonman]

As others have said, following your "gut" can be the best line of defense you have. If it doesn't feel right, don't do it.

 

Agreed. Not that that's going to be 100% correct all the time either, but I think if something about the ad, or the pre-meeting conversations with the guy, etc, start feeling odd, then it's probably best to stay away.

 

I had been curious about a guy advertising on Hourboy, and finally decided to get in touch a few months ago. He seemed like a straightforward, ordinary guy in his ad, and he may well be - I don't know. His rates are low, which may or may not be a red flag (I didn't think it was in this case, necessarily). I traded a few emails with him, and didn't love his tone, though I was still interested. Then he insisted on payment up front, and I just began to think this was not going to be a good situation. My gut said "no" and I stopped corresponding. Now, maybe he is legit and fine, but it just didn't seem right to me. So I'll never know, but then again, it kept me out of potential trouble, lol.

 

For the record - I know that there's been a lot of bad rap for Backpage ads, and I think often that's for good reason. But I have met one guy off of BP, and he turned out to be legit and very nice. I have seen several more established escorts place ads there as well, so obviously if it's someone who's been reviewed elsewhere or has a good reputation from the more established escort sites, you're probably ok. There are also a few guys that I actually know in real life who advertise a lot on BP (they don't know I know, lol), though I've also recently seen ads for them on Rentboy as well. So - not everyone on BP is a skank/thug/phony or a setup, lol. But again, I totally get why many of you are cautioning against hiring a guy solely based on his BP ad.

[+ FreshFluff]

Just a reminder in case you are ever questioned by the police or arrested: Don't say ANYTHING to the police. The police are trained to get you to talk, but staying silent and is the best strategy. If you are not under arrest, keep asking "Am I being detained or am I free to go?" If you are under arrest, say you need to speak to a lawyer before talking to them. Here are two excellent videos about this.

 

A talk by a defense lawyer turned law school professor and a police officer. They point out that you cannot talk your way out of an arrest and that talking can never help; it can only hurt you. (Lawyers: Are there exceptions to this rule?)

[video=youtube;6wXkI4t7nuc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

 

10 rules for dealing with the police

[+ Gar1eth]

You know it's sad we are having to talk about this. I mean I'm against child/women trafficking and against junkies escorting to finance a habit. But it were legal and escorts were made to get regular medical exams- oh what the heck. It may come to that some day here in the US of A. But with our strong Victorian Era/Puritanical beginnings, I'm betting I'll be long dead and buried before it ever does.

 

Gman

[Mark Gordon]

Hire in Canada. Ask whatever you like, the clearer the better. We will not be breaking the law. Prostitution is not illegal. And I'm accepting US$ at par..

[Michael Wayne]

Hire me @ http://www.rentmen.com/mikeyusatop or hire brandan steele or legendary Dave or any of 20 or 30 well known and well reviewed guys on this site. Dealing with newbies or unreviewed guys can be dangerous. pm me and we will discuss

[+ FreshFluff]

That's what I always told myself (and I never had to follow up). The "problem" is, when you refuse to talk, they'll find it suspicious if you don't want to talk. Only recently I found an answer to that dilemma :

 

What you called "tunnel vision" is also known as motivated reasoning in psychology. It's a problem for everyone, including police. But while detectives can arrest you, they cannot impose a sentence on you.

 

Again, I'm not a lawyer but here's my take: The reason you cited is one of the main reasons people talk to the police. But the Fifth Amendment says that a person always have the right not to incriminate himself and that this cannot be held against him. It's always possible that a policeman might arrest you whether you talk or not, but a judge or jury can never use your refusal to talk as evidence of guilt. On the other hand, a judge/jury can use anything you say--even something that seems harmless-- against you. So staying silent can help you eventually. The first video has several examples of this.

[tom1980]

Tom,

What kind of "things get underway" that provide you with assurance the guy is not

a cop...? This is the crux of the matter and most difficult

for a novice (like me)

Thanks.

 

Aero: It depends on the guy. As many have said, after a kiss or two (especially an open mouthed/passionate kiss) I feel comfortable. Or if the guy grabs my cock (which happens more often than I might have expected), I know he isn't a cop.

 

If it's a massage, then I either undress to my underwear and wait to see if the masseur gets fully undressed or I get fully undressed and lay on the table/bed as if it is perfectly normal to lay naked and undraped for a massage. Once he's naked and the massage gets going, you can ask if he is okay with you touching him. You can also gently touch/stroke some part of his body (like an arm or leg) without asking when the opportunity arises and see how he reacts. A lot of masseurs will position themselves so that the client can touch them, or if you lay there without trying to touch them, they will tell you that it is okay to touch.

 

Generally, a cop will want to get you to link sex to money within the first minute or two of meeting. If the guy does not mention sex or try to get you to exchange money for sex quickly after opening the door, you are probably okay. A cop isn't going to get undressed and massage you for 20 minutes while waiting for you to grab his dick and spontaneously tie money to sex.

[+ HeyDude]

Anton

Thanks for that very practical and wise advice. Really appreciated.

[+ HeyDude]

Aero: It depends on the guy. As many have said, after a kiss or two (especially an open mouthed/passionate kiss) I feel comfortable. Or if the guy grabs my cock (which happens more often than I might have expected), I know he isn't a cop.

 

If it's a massage, then I either undress to my underwear and wait to see if the masseur gets fully undressed or I get fully undressed and lay on the table/bed as if it is perfectly normal to lay naked and undraped for a massage. Once he's naked and the massage gets going, you can ask if he is okay with you touching him. You can also gently touch/stroke some part of his body (like an arm or leg) without asking when the opportunity arises and see how he reacts. A lot of masseurs will position themselves so that the client can touch them, or if you lay there without trying to touch them, they will tell you that it is okay to touch.

 

Generally, a cop will want to get you to link sex to money within the first minute or two of meeting. If the guy does not mention sex or try to get you to exchange money for sex quickly after opening the door, you are probably okay. A cop isn't going to get undressed and massage you for 20 minutes while waiting for you to grab his dick and spontaneously tie money to sex.

 

Thanks Tom for another helpful example of how to manage an unclear situation.

[+ FreshFluff]

You : I'm sorry sir, but at this moment I have nothing to say

Cop : Mmmm, do you have anything to hide?

You : No sir, but there's always a slight risk of tunnel vision.

Cop : What's "tunnel vision"?

You : Sir, it's part of your profession to know. If you don't, I need to be worried.

 

The first line is absolutely excellent IMO and a great line to repeat. The tunnel vision part is true but unnecessary and potentially risky. If the cop thinks you're saying he's ignorant, then he may get angry and less likely to give you a break. It's not right, but cops are human.

 

In general, showing respect to the police can only help you. Here's the "10 Rules for Dealing with Police" video which discusses that. It's incredibly practical.

[video=youtube;s4nQ_mFJV4I]

[tom1980]

You : "I'm truly sorry sir, but I don't have a good memory for these kinds of details. If I would answer your questions, I may not be answering your questions truthfully because of the lack of my memory. If that happens, and from a legal point of view, I'd actually be lying to a law enforcement officer and that's a crime in itself. You don't want me to do that."

 

As a lawyer reading this, I was screaming in my head, "NO NO NO! STOP TALKING!!! DON'T SAY THAT TOO!!!!"

 

A prosecutor will have a field day with a defendant who says, "I don't have a good memory" and "I may not be answering your questions truthfully" and "I'd actually be lying to a law enforcement office." Forget the rest of the sentences and the context because the prosecutor surely will. I can see the trial now. Every time you insist that a particular event happened or statement was made, the prosecutor will ask, "But you don't have a good memory for detail do you? And your poor memory for details might prevent you from answering my questions truthfully just as it prevented you from telling the truth to the arresting officer? You wouldn't want to commit perjury by lying to me, the judge, and those twelve nice jurors, would you? That would be a crime, right?"

 

There is no good answer to those questions. If you contradict the prosecutor and claim to have an excellent memory, then you look like you lied to the police officer because you wanted to hide something. If you agree with him that you don't have a good memory, then the jurors can't believe anything you say at trial. I'm not a criminal lawyer, but if I was and heard that my client said those things to the arresting officer I would strongly encourage him to make a plea deal or, at the very least, not testify at trial.

 

The best rule is to never ever ever talk to the police except to say that you have nothing to say and would like to speak to a lawyer. If the officer arrests you because you refuse to speak, then he was going to arrest you anyway. If he didn't have evidence without you confessing or saying something suspicious, the arrest will be thrown out because the office didn't have probable cause.

 

Along the same line, you should rarely, if ever, agree to allow a cop to search your vehicle, room, home, or person. If he has cause to search it without your consent, then he will search it no matter what you say. If he doesn't have probable cause, then he either won't do the search or any evidence he finds will be inadmissible. Also note that patting you down to ensure you don't have weapons is different from searching you by, for example, digging in your pockets and examining items he finds.

[bostonman]

As a lawyer reading this, I was screaming in my head, "NO NO NO! STOP TALKING!!! DON'T SAY THAT TOO!!!!"

 

A prosecutor will have a field day with a defendant who says, "I don't have a good memory" and "I may not be answering your questions truthfully" and "I'd actually be lying to a law enforcement office." Forget the rest of the sentences and the context because the prosecutor surely will.

 

Not only that, but truthfully, who, in the heat and panic of the moment of being arrested, is really going to remember a complex paragraph or series of statements like that, lol?

 

I know there's more to the POW "name, rank, and serial number" thing than just saying that as opposed to anything else, but certainly a benefit of that system is that it's easy to remember a short list of 3 simple items. With all due respect to Anton and the other posters who offered clever things to say in case of arrest, frankly, I wouldn't remember ANY of that. :o

[+ FreshFluff]

Areroguy,

 

 

 

You're most welcome. In case you're referring to the dilemma of rather not responding to the questions of a police officer, the video gave me the inspiration for another one (and I think this one is better) :

 

You : "I'm truly sorry sir, but I don't have a good memory for these kinds of details. If I would answer your questions, I may not be answering your questions truthfully because of the lack of my memory. If that happens, and from a legal point of view, I'd actually be lying to a law enforcement officer and that's a crime in itself. You don't want me to do that."

 

Cop : "Mmmm, you may have a point there."

 

Me : :o

 

I think Tom and Bostonman raised excellent points. Another issue is that most detectives wouldn't stop questioning you simply because you claim to have a bad memory. A good detective would just keep pressing that you must remember something and can tell him what you do remember.

 

Also, remember that they don't have to stop questioning you just because you've asked for a lawyer. You may have to repeat your request for a lawyer until they give up.

[BSR]

I recall an article about dealing with the Boston Police, which stated that you shouldn't feel compelled in any way to respond to police questioning. Just say two things: 1) I am exercising my right to remain silent, and 2) I want a lawyer. In Boston, and I would hope in every jurisdiction but it seems that's not necessarily the case, the police respect a person's right to remain silent because they know that if they were ever arrested, they would do the exact same thing. When they inform you that anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law, take that as gospel. Nervous chatter, nervous excuses, nervous jokes (sensing a theme here?) will all be duly noted and used by the prosecution if your case goes to trial.

[Frequentflier]

Also, remember that they don't have to stop questioning you just because you've asked for a lawyer. You may have to repeat your request for a lawyer until they give up.

 

Interesting advisory...its totally crap that they can do that..."in America"...however.

[tom1980]

Anything you say after asking for a lawyer is technically inadmissible. However, once you've given the cops information, they will try to "learn" the same facts from another source (like talking to someone else or through a search warrant) or by asking you the same question once your lawyer is present to see if you give a different answer.

 

Some jurisdictions require cops to hand you a card that lists your rights. I suggest underlining or circling the rights to remain silent and to have an attorney or writing out that you are exercising those rights. Then you have documentary evidence in your favor.

 

A lot of police officers are good people who really want to do the right thing. Unfortunately, there are many others who want to make an arrest at any cost or who "know" the person they've arrested is guilty and want to make sure they don't let "evidence" or legal "technicalities" keep the "criminal" out of jail. Those in the latter group have few scruples and do not care about trampling your rights or tricking you into incriminating yourself, even if you are innocent.