Unprotected sex

[Bob]

I know I may be demonized for starting this thread or even considering such a possibility, but recently I've met a man on a bareback site who is positive and oh so sexy and I'm tempted to submit to him. He tells me that he is on medication, is tested frequently, and always shows an undetectable viral load. He has shown me several studies that indicate there is little risk of infection from such an individual, the most widely quoted a Swiss study. Any thoughts?

[seeker630]

I know I may be demonized for starting this thread or even considering such a possibility, but recently I've met a man on a bareback site who is positive and oh so sexy and I'm tempted to submit to him. He tells me that he is on medication, is tested frequently, and always shows an undetectable viral load. He has shown me several studies that indicate there is little risk of infection from such an individual, the most widely quoted a Swiss study. Any thoughts?

 

I think you know the answer here.

 

It's Russian roulette.

 

Who benefits from him barebacking you, and who is at risk? i don't have much respect for anyone who's positive who tries to convince someone else to bareback with them.

[instudiocity]

It's Russian roulette.

With six bullets in the gun!

ABSOLUTELY NOT!

[+ Travis69]

I do respect the guy. He is being upfront and honest with you. For your peace of mind I would discuss it with a health care professional that you trust and make your decision. Most all of us do something sexually that someone else is not going to condone. I do not use condoms for oral sex and I am sure many would disapprove of my actions.

[bigvalboy]

Most all of us do something sexually that someone else is not going to condone. I do not use condoms for oral sex and I am sure many would disapprove of my actions.

 

This is the reality.....I agree with Travis. I do not use condoms for oral either, however I do draw the line on anal. Perhaps that attitude is a little hypocritical, or naive, or both, but each to his own. If you should decide to bareback, I would encourage you to put "Lust" aside and think this through....

[maxwellissmart]

I know I may be demonized for starting this thread or even considering such a possibility, but recently I've met a man on a bareback site who is positive and oh so sexy and I'm tempted to submit to him. He tells me that he is on medication, is tested frequently, and always shows an undetectable viral load. He has shown me several studies that indicate there is little risk of infection from such an individual, the most widely quoted a Swiss study. Any thoughts?

 

Bob, I think it's ironic that sometimes gay men will be more cautious around someone who has the flu than they will about sex with someone who has HIV. A friend/client (aren't they all, it seems), was just tested and came back positive. He's absolutely crushed, and I had to spend the better part of a day talking him down off the ledge.

 

He had some misconceptions about HIV, and here are some of them.

 

1) Only bottoms get HIV. This is not true, and if you have a foreskin as a top, your risk increases more.

2) Undetectable means safe. This is not true, especially since viral levels fluctuate and are directly dependent on the patient's consistent therapy and response to the meds. If you're going to take the time to get all that info from someone, just use a condom.

3) HIV is the only thing you have to worry about. This is not true, since there are all sorts of other little bugs out there that you can get.

4) He looks good, so he must be healthy and taking his meds. This is not true, since everyone responds to the virus differently.

5) HIV is as simple as a pill per day, and the problem is managed. This is not true, if you take into account the damage that the meds themselves can wreak on your body. And sometimes the meds fail and you don't realize it until your immune system plummets.

 

I do not use condoms for oral sex and I am sure many would disapprove of my actions.

 

Neither have I. In fact, I never have—and I'm negative. I've had oral sex many, many more times than anal, and the number of partners is probably reaching into several (thousand, maybe). It's a calculated risk, and I'm willing to take it. But there's always workarounds—suck someone's balls, their nipples, their asshole. Just be aware if you have any mouth injuries and be careful.

 

The bottom line is that "sexy" shouldn't equal "incredibly disruptive and expensive." The flip side is that "HIV" doesn't equal "the end of the world." I have had numerous partners with HIV, including two relationships. The difference between my guys and yours is that not one of mine tried to convince me to have sex without a condom. You're going to do what you're going to do. Just be aware of the potential for an outcome that you did not expect. Or want.

[Guest countryboywny]

Bob, I think it's ironic that sometimes gay men will be more cautious around someone who has the flu than they will about sex with someone who has HIV. A friend/client (aren't they all, it seems), was just tested and came back positive. He's absolutely crushed, and I had to spend the better part of a day talking him down off the ledge.

 

He had some misconceptions about HIV, and here are some of them.

 

1) Only bottoms get HIV. This is not true, and if you have a foreskin as a top, your risk increases more.

2) Undetectable means safe. This is not true, especially since viral levels fluctuate and are directly dependent on the patient's consistent therapy and response to the meds. If you're going to take the time to get all that info from someone, just use a condom.

3) HIV is the only thing you have to worry about. This is not true, since there are all sorts of other little bugs out there that you can get.

4) He looks good, so he must be healthy and taking his meds. This is not true, since everyone responds to the virus differently.

5) HIV is as simple as a pill per day, and the problem is managed. This is not true, if you take into account the damage that the meds themselves can wreak on your body. And sometimes the meds fail and you don't realize it until your immune system plummets.

 

 

 

Neither have I. In fact, I never have—and I'm negative. I've had oral sex many, many more times than anal, and the number of partners is probably reaching into several (thousand, maybe). It's a calculated risk, and I'm willing to take it. But there's always workarounds—suck someone's balls, their nipples, their asshole. Just be aware if you have any mouth injuries and be careful.

 

The bottom line is that "sexy" shouldn't equal "incredibly disruptive and expensive." The flip side is that "HIV" doesn't equal "the end of the world." I have had numerous partners with HIV, including two relationships. The difference between my guys and yours is that not one of mine tried to convince me to have sex without a condom. You're going to do what you're going to do. Just be aware of the potential for an outcome that you did not expect. Or want.

 

Well written, Max!

[instudiocity]

You're going to do what you're going to do. Just be aware of the potential for an outcome that you did not expect. Or want.

And Max has done a great job of giving an informal, preliminary explanation. Now for more speculations on anal sex sans wrapper...

 

Have you guys heard about alcohol enemas? Here's a quote from a CNN article:

But alcohol enemas are no laughing matter, experts say. One of the Tennessee students was taken to the hospital with a blood alcohol level of 0.40, officials said. That's five times the legal limit and in what doctors call the "death zone" for alcohol poisoning.

 

Using an alcohol enema involves placing a small tube into someone's rectum and pouring alcohol into the colon. Because the alcohol is absorbed directly into the bloodstream, the recipient gets drunk faster.

Putting anything up your butt is like mainlining it into your body, from suppositories to penises. The lower end of the digestive tract is designed so that your body can absorb nutrients - nutrients which have gone through a sanitizing process from the enzyme activities of your mouth and your saliva to the acid treatment of your stomach.

 

Ingesting cum, especially ingesting incidental increments of cum, is far safer than injecting cum up the poop chute (man pussy), what ever you prefer.

 

A medical professional told me that one orgasm in the rectum could be as fatal as drinking 2 gallons of cum. Now I know that's a non-scientific analogy, but I get the point. The upper part of the digestive system is designed to kill the harmful things we injest. The lower half is designed to absorb whatever gets in there. So for me, unwrapped BJ's are cool, wrapped fuck-poles and a NO-NO.

 

Here's the link to the CNN article describing Frat Boys taking it up the butt, alcohol that is ... I wonder if the brothers were just doing prep work for later?

 

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/26/health/alcohol-enemas/index.html

[Diverdan]

NEVER, EVER WITH OUT A WRAP, whether your top partner is negative, thinks he is negative or doesn't know, or thinks he is or positive at any level of viral load. It is your life you ae talking about and Why play russian roulette when you don't have to?

[jjkrkwood]

He's handing you a line of propaganda which can only serve to benefit HIM. IMO this sort of person is careless and selfish, and really does not have YOUR best interests at heart.

 

Go with your head here, and NOT with your Boner... It CANT end well....

[down_to_business]

...recently I've met a man on a bareback site... Any thoughts?

 

Bob- I don't think whatever anyone says would really make a difference. Why are you hanging out on bareback sites trying to meet people in the first place? The line he is giving you is full of crap and you know better.

 

I am not trying to be judemental here, but if you didn't have interest in bareback sex in the first place, you wouldn't be hanging out on that website trying to meet people. Like others have said, we all take some degree of risks and it would be hypocritical of me (as one who enjoys both sucking and swallowing) to tell you not to take a risk.

 

I know it can be fun at times to FANTASIZE about bareback sex, especially the way it is glorified in porn. Go ahead and fantasize. Please think long and hard before actually going through with it. Your life may depend on it.

[doitb4ugo]

Thanks, Bob, for this thread. As an HIV+ man I wrestle all the time with dealing with others sexually when one is infected. I can only offer you a couple of points of advice:

 

1. Please talk to a medical doctor about this issue. I am a patient of Fenway Health and always can freely discuss these issue with my doctor there. Well meaning people have many words of advice but in this case, I think you need to talk with an expert and come to an informed conclusion about your own life and how sexual activites fit within your tolerance for risk.

 

2. Changes in medical practices is continually evolving and new guidelines are coming to the forefront all the time....Here is one such article about PrEP which you may find helpful...Pre-exposure prophyalxis for HIV prevention:Fenway Institute, Fenway Health, 2012 Download PDF

 

I wish you only the best and believe that only you can make these dificult choices for yourself. Good Luck.

[jimboivyo]

how can anyone respond to this guy rationally? who the hell asks these kinds of questions? you're negative, stay that way. don't be a fool.

[Steven_Draker]

Bob,

Doitb4ugo and Travis69 both hit the nail on the head. You should get together with the doctor/specialist who is treating your poz friend and have an honest and upfront discussion the three of you.

 

Many specialists would not recommend you having unprotected sex with an HIV+ partner with an undetectable viral load, for various reasons, even though the risks of transmission are low. (I am aware of the Swiss study).

 

Finally there are several ongoing and past research studies worldwide about the risk of HIV transmission among serodiscordant couples (couples in which one partner is HIV positive and the other HIV negative). You may want to have take a look there.

 

It's a heated debate.

[Jaker27]

If this is something you'd like to try there are some options.

 

http://www.manhuntcares.com/2012/11/world-aids-day-2012-celebrating-the-hiv-prevention-pill-for-hiv-negative-men/

[bigvalboy]

If this is something you'd like to try there are some options.

 

http://www.manhuntcares.com/2012/11/world-aids-day-2012-celebrating-the-hiv-prevention-pill-for-hiv-negative-men/

 

I'm in......thanks Jaker27.

[zeyfur]

Please don't.

[jjkrkwood]

Any person who has had personal experience with an individual who passed from HIV/Aids "wouldnt" ask the OP's question. Seeing and experiencing the consequences upfront and personal will certainly answer ALL your questions.... Its NOT just like having a "cold"...

[Bosguy]

Any person who has had personal experience with an individual who passed from HIV/Aids "wouldnt" ask the OP's question. Seeing and experiencing the consequences upfront and personal will certainly answer ALL your questions.... Its NOT just like having a "cold"...

 

It just totally blows my mind why this is even up for discussion when we are a group of gay men and should be aware of the consequences to yourself PLUS the many who truly care about you. I lost one of my early loves many years ago to this insane ailment and I think about him constantly and what he could have been. Don't think--just don't go there!!

 

Boston Bill

[+ deej]

It just totally blows my mind why this is even up for discussion when we are a group of gay men and should be aware of the consequences to yourself PLUS the many who truly care about you. I lost one of my early loves many years ago to this insane ailment and I think about him constantly and what he could have been. Don't think--just don't go there!!

 

The rub there is that too many men younger than "us" (men of a certain age) didn't see the first wave. They didn't live through the army of the walking dead in the Castro and other cities. They didn't see the pall of death hanging over the community.

 

"We" (men of a certain age) have in some ways let the young 'uns down. We've let the message go soft. When was the last time you saw a safer sex PSA? They used to be everywhere. We *should* take a lesson from the American Cancer Society. Every time they cut back on the anti-smoking PSA's, the rate of new smokers jumps. The message has to be plain and clear AND CONSTANT. Smoking is no less dangerous today than it was 20 years ago, nor is unsafe sex, and yet ACS is still advertising heavily but AIDS awareness has gone almost silent.

 

The media is complicit. New treatments (and common gym memberships) allow the former walking dead to actually look pretty fabulous, but nobody sees what's behind closed doors. Even in death, we've fallen silent. Obituaries used to list "AIDS-related causes". Now it's liver failure or cancer or whatever, with no mention that it was likely HIV-related.

 

It's all part of the human tendency to avoid bad news. Some call it whistling past the graveyard. But it's "our" (men of a certain age) fault. We let the message get weak.

[tyro]

Barbara Carrellas, one of my favorite authors, worked in theater in NYC during the first wave. She was attending four funerals a WEEK.

I'm having a shitty YEAR if I go to that many.

Please protect yourselves, guys. And gals.

T

[citylaw1]

I know I may be demonized for starting this thread or even considering such a possibility, but recently I've met a man on a bareback site who is positive and oh so sexy and I'm tempted to submit to him. He tells me that he is on medication, is tested frequently, and always shows an undetectable viral load. He has shown me several studies that indicate there is little risk of infection from such an individual, the most widely quoted a Swiss study. Any thoughts?

 

Ridiculous on so many levels.

[AdamSmith]

Can't we give it an honest break? Every time I'm with someone, I want to do the whole night raw. So far, neg. But I have been a bare top more times than I would wish to admit. And a willing bare bottom several times with someone I love and trust, but the risk of course remains. My blind luck that it has not got me yet.

 

But we do balance these existential choices, given that the mortal span is short in any event.

[bigvalboy]

But we do balance these existential choices, given that the mortal span is short in any event.

Thanks for the honesty. I am not all together sure that I agree with what you are doing, but it is refreshing to hear someone speak the truth, and make no apology. Your truth is the reality for more guys than most would imagine.

[instudiocity]

But we do balance these existential choices, given that the mortal span is short in any event.

Balance? I dunno about that balancing eggsistentalls, but I'd prefer to keep on learning as opposed to prematurely terminating my education.