Fees are negotiable

[cany10011]

Thanks guys for the explanations... I'm a Canadian living in NYC..never heard of that expression before. Could be that a number of close, smart and accomplished friends are Jewish.

 

 

I was a bit surprised to see this term used. It is certainly not used in my circle

of friends. I have always found it offensive.

[unsub2O17]

Thanks guys for the explanations... I'm a Canadian living in NYC..never heard of that expression before. Could be that a number of close, smart and accomplished friends are Jewish.

 

I first heard/read this word 40 years ago when it was equated to the "n" word--only anti-Semitic not racist. I hope that I never see or hear it again--and, certainly not in an, otherwise, informative thread.

[seeker630]

I first heard/read this word 40 years ago when it was equated to the "n" word--only anti-Semitic not racist. I hope that I never see or hear it again--and, certainly not in an, otherwise, informative thread.

 

Sorry - are you saying the single word 'Jew' is anti-Semitic?

[unsub2O17]

Sorry - are you saying the single word 'Jew' is anti-Semitic?

 

What you quoted from the urban dictionary as "jew down" was called "jewing" when I was young. So, you got it right that it's an "offensive term based on ethnic stereotypes". I accept that definition just as I think the "N" word is an "offensive term based on racial stereotypes". That's how I equate (in my mind) anti-antisemitism and racism. However, this isn't about me or even "jewing." The original point by "B", I believe, was that negotiating was essentially a D/S interaction, and I don't agree with this. Negotiating to be "true" negotiation is between equals, not perceived or real differences.

[JoeyBryant]

As I've said before—I post "ASK ME" because I offer multiple services and I have one rate box. If I put $200, I chase away the massage clients. If I put $150, I get all the cheapskates. When I say that I negotiate rates—it is something that happens maybe 1 time out of 20 contacts with clients. And then it almost always goes something like this:

 

"Hi, what's your rate?"

"It's $200/hr."

"Could you do $180?"

"Sure."

 

Here's my version:

 

"Hi, what's your rate?"

I believe they are posted there on my ad, what site did you see me on?

"men4rent"

"Okay, its 200"

"Could you do $180?"

"Why do you think I deserve a paycut?"

 

....you have to remember that not only is it likely that person will go and pay someone else $200 or $300...but it sets the precedent for them to call the shots. There's been times I've agreed to a lesser rate, but then call them back a few minutes later and say, "I can't do it. I don't feel comfortable going for that amount." And miraculously, they find another $50 just laying around. The worse feeling in the world would be to meet a client who probably paid Johnny big cock $300/hr earlier that week, but felt the urge again to hire and wanted to talk you down.

 

It's not the mere fact that you are agreeing to a lower price, but rather agreeing to it without a 'fight'. Make it sound like lowering your price is such an inconvenience for you. 180? Okay...but you have to come to my place. Or, I can't come to you for $180 because everytime I drive to downtown, I get a parking ticket and it's $15 for the 1st hour to park in a hotel garage. Or, hey...I'm staying in a hotel which adds cost to my trip, I can't negotiate that price.

 

You'd think guys that like to negotiate would probably not want to push boundaries and over-stay their time...but 9 times out of 10 those are the very ones that do that. You agree to $20 less, they'll think they can "negotiate" you into doing Bareback or "negotiate" making you cum a 2nd time even though you have another client later that day. Just saying.

 

We can talk about discounts after we've met for a relatively consistent period of time. I don't mean see me once, and then not see me for 12 months and mention a discount.

[jjkrkwood]

Well, people shop for and negotiate on everytyhing from homes, to cars, to mediacal services to groceries... Why should escorts be off-limit ?

 

I for one am not the negotiating type. If I want something I pay the "asking" price if I feel its worth it, and within my budget. If not, i move on.

 

I am not exactly sure why escorts are so offended by people who "bargain" ? I dont feel its insulting. Remember, escorts are people who offer themselves up for Sex, and while they should be respected as "people" this is a business transactionn with fees involved so a negotiation should always be anticipated. Its a behavioral phenomenum for some clients, which can be ended with a simple answer of NO when asked if a price can be lowered.

[Phil_musc]

This has certainly been an informative thread. I always thought posted rates should be respected and shouldn't be bargained down. But apparently that is not always the case. In our culture prices I always considered to be firm - the notable exceptions being cars and real estate. But in other cultures, everything is bargained for. Makes a difference. I didn't want to offend a guy, but it seems that that is not always how bargaining comes off for our work force. Good to know. Still I probably wouldn't do it.

 

An aside - that "jewing" crack was offensive in print. In conversation where tone qualifies what is said, that might have passed. But not here.

[+ Oliver]

I do not contact an escort whose stated rate for an hour is more than I wish to pay. Also, I engage an escort for an evening, an afternoon, overnight or longer - always longer than an hour and usually including a meal. (The overnights and longer periods are with gentlemen I have seen previously.) That being said, when I make initial contact, I say for how long I wish to meet, and ask what the fee would be for that length of time - expecting that it will not be merely a multiple of the hourly rate. I have always received a reasonable answer (to me). I suppose that could be considered negotiating, but I'm not to asking him to lower his rate for an hour.

[unsub2O17]

I do not contact an escort whose stated rate for an hour is more than I wish to pay. Also, I engage an escort for an evening, an afternoon, overnight or longer - always longer than an hour and usually including a meal. (The overnights and longer periods are with gentlemen I have seen previously.) That being said, when I make initial contact, I say for how long I wish to meet, and ask what the fee would be for that length of time - expecting that it will not be merely a multiple of the hourly rate. I have always received a reasonable answer (to me). I suppose that could be considered negotiating, but I'm not to asking him to lower his rate for an hour.

 

This seems like a very good way to handle the issue.

[Strafe13]

This seems like a very good way to handle the issue.

 

Ditto. Like Oliver, I'd also wish to do longer appointments, and would find it helpful food escorts to provide info re: multi-hour discounts. I won't pay north of $250 for an hour (and even that's my absolute upper limit for only special occasions), but I'm more than willing to consider longer appts that will obviously exceed that in total, but offer greater overall value. Guess I need to get over my nervousness and just ask those guys who don't openly advertise that option.

[maxwellissmart]

Here's my version:

 

"Hi, what's your rate?"

I believe they are posted there on my ad, what site did you see me on?

"men4rent"

"Okay, its 200"

"Could you do $180?"

"Why do you think I deserve a paycut?"

 

....you have to remember that not only is it likely that person will go and pay someone else $200 or $300...but it sets the precedent for them to call the shots. There's been times I've agreed to a lesser rate, but then call them back a few minutes later and say, "I can't do it. I don't feel comfortable going for that amount." And miraculously, they find another $50 just laying around. The worse feeling in the world would be to meet a client who probably paid Johnny big cock $300/hr earlier that week, but felt the urge again to hire and wanted to talk you down.

 

If I agree to a rate, I will never renege on my promise unless they try to bait-and-switch what they want from me, which happens on occasion. If that's the case, a little oral here and there usually smoothes things over—or an explanation of "I didn't expect to have to do that, so I'm not prepared. But we can try that again another time," and then I throw in something unexpected, like a shower. Obviously there will be a client who thinks he's been shortchanged, or with whom you just don't connect. And there will be clients who try to dominate the appointment and tell me the way things will be run. I had a client when I first started escorting who did something like this—he came into my apartment and told me how much he intended on paying me, and that he still expected everything I had promised. Had I not been new and had it not been my apartment, I would have left immediately. But that's only happened once or twice in a number of years, and not for quite some time. And even if it did again—I'd brush it off and move on. I've had plenty of clients who paid much more than my asking fee and ranged from awesome to horrible. It will all even out in the wash—as they say. Hell, half the time an appointment runs over a client will ask me "so how much do I owe you?" and I'll respond with "I'll leave that up to you."

 

And as far as them going to see someone else for $200-300—that's the point of competitive pricing. If I priced myself what I'd like to make in theory—I'd probably never see a single client. But in reality, $175-200 for a hour of my time is a pretty sweet deal, and it sure as hell is better than a 5 or 6 hour shift at a bar or restaurant. And chances are, they will come see me and look at me as a bargain compared to that $200-300 guy. The favorite client that I've mentioned before—I used to see him for an entire day, and charged him for 2 hours. Maybe he looked at me as a bargain and felt like he couldn't do any better from a money standpoint, so he continued to see me. I saw him once a week for 4 years. His fee paid for my car, and a sizable chunk of my student loan. He also gave me gifts and took me to dinner all the time. More importantly, he's now one of my most dependable friends, who I could call right now and ask for help and get it immediately.

 

It's not the mere fact that you are agreeing to a lower price, but rather agreeing to it without a 'fight'.

 

Why would I want to fight with a client? Complaining about a client's behavior anonymously on the board is one thing—calling them out to their face is both dangerous and stupid. I have no idea who I'm dealing with, and it could just well be that psycho who is smart enough to create another email account, find out where I live and call my landlord. The best way to handle situations like this is to always say something along the lines of: "I'm sorry, I'm happy with my prices and feel like they are fair—if you'd like to try again some other time, let me know." Even with clients who have contacted me under various emails with the same IP—I've never let on that I know, they are simply blocked. If they manage to get through, I create a new filter or explain that my gmail account sends things to spam without my knowing. People will believe anything as long as it's convincing.

 

Make it sound like lowering your price is such an inconvenience for you. 180? Okay...but you have to come to my place...

 

But it's not an inconvenience. It's a "price range." As I've stated before—I am not Juan in Vancouver, who is in a country where this activity is legal. I am not Tristan Baldwin, who is in the upper tier of pornstar-escorts. I am Max, who is (now) in a medium-sized city and trying to establish new clientele roster. As such, I have to rely on my ability to be flexible, my copy and my pics to be approachable and enticing, and my attitude to be friendlier than the next guy. $180 is nothing to be sneezed at, and I'd rather have $180 (or more, if they tip me) in my pocket than posting on a message board about how I don't get enough traffic and am considering quitting escorting. By the way, I went to Denver several weeks ago and made $1500 in 3 days—so I'm not so sure that the market is as flat as you might believe.

 

You'd think guys that like to negotiate would probably not want to push boundaries and over-stay their time...but 9 times out of 10 those are the very ones that do that.

 

To you, maybe. Considering that I advertise that I am not a clock-watcher and actually mean it, that's not really an issue. Granted, if a client won't come simply because they want to stretch the clock—then I'll deal with that on a case-by-case basis. But considering that the vast majority of clients are either shorter than 45 minutes or I stretch the appointment out myself because I'm enjoying their company—this is not a problem for me.

 

You agree to $20 less, they'll think they can "negotiate" you into doing Bareback or "negotiate" making you cum a 2nd time even though you have another client later that day. Just saying.

 

The leap from $20 less to barebacking is a long one—this has never happened once during my entire tenure as an escort. I've had clients try to bareback me before, but it wasn't because they got a cheaper appointment. In fact, it's usually been because they have the "I'm paying a lot for this and I expect to get what I want and then some" mentality. And as far as coming a 2nd time, I'm more often the instigator of that than not.

 

We can talk about discounts after we've met for a relatively consistent period of time. I don't mean see me once, and then not see me for 12 months and mention a discount.

 

It is true that I get this a lot. 95% of the time it's from clients who never set up a first meeting. The remaining 5% who DO book usually forget what the rate actually is because they book so few and far between (like, maybe once every 6 months), so I simply tell them it's the same rate they paid the first time. On the rare chance I do actually adjust a rate, it's because: 1) I have nothing else going on that day, 2) They are the end appointment of the day, 3) They want a massage and I know I'm not going to be asked to come, so I can see another client later if one is already scheduled or happens to schedule.

 

Part of the reason I've always had steady traffic and been relatively popular has been because people look at me and see someone who is like the college buddy, neighbor or co-worker they've always had a crush on and wanted to fuck. They like me before they even walk in the door for the most part, and I'm only sweetening that by being nice AND hot. The two comments I get most often from clients are 1) why aren't you with someone? and 2) you're going to make someone very happy someday. It's certainly not "well, this ended up being an agreeable financial transaction, despite my original misgivings for paying full price." I think, Joey—you are far too analytical about what you're going to GET out of this (and this is coming from an extremely analytical person), instead of what you have to GIVE. While no one is telling you to go out and change lives for the better and to be selfless and all that rot, I think you'd have a much better time and be much more successful at escorting (and from the sound of it, dating) if you looked at the whole dynamic as being an opportunity that you are lucky to have stumbled upon. No one owes you anything—in life, or in escorting, until you give something first.

 

And one thing I want to stress is that by no means am I a Pollyanna when it comes to escorting. I've had clients who were AWFUL. AWFUL and CHEAP. And I've had clients who were hot and generous—and unexpectedly so. When the day comes that I can't look at escorting as an easy way to get sex (easier than fucking Manhunt, anyway) AND make my rent, then it will be time to hang up my boots.

[nate_sf]

Ditto. Like Oliver, I'd also wish to do longer appointments, and would find it helpful food escorts to provide info re: multi-hour discounts. I won't pay north of $250 for an hour (and even that's my absolute upper limit for only special occasions), but I'm more than willing to consider longer appts that will obviously exceed that in total, but offer greater overall value. Guess I need to get over my nervousness and just ask those guys who don't openly advertise that option.

 

If they show both an hourly rate and an overnight rate, and the overnight rate is not a direct multiple of the hourly rate, then in all likelihood he'll offer a discount for a multi-hour appointment. I thought most guys do this, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

 

Oliver's approach is a good one... specify how long you'd like to be together, and include info like whether you will be going out for dinner and such. Then let the escort offer a rate for the whole package. It's less "bargaining" than it is just negotiating for a package of services. If he just offers a multiple of his hourly rate, well, then you know without having to have asked straight out. But again, I think most guys do some kind of multi-hour discount.

[+ tristanbaldwin]

Maxwell...you are aptly named for the purposes of this forum. Excellent, excellent post...and not just because you're so nice to me in it!

 

I agree with virtually every statement you say. Expect more haggling in the future; as Men4RentNow is now seeming to be leaning towards this 'What does the client want to pay' auction type system. Given that most clients preview escorts through both RB, Men4RentNow, Hell- Craigslist, in addition to Daddy's boards themselves...I'd expect more of that same haphazard forgetfullness of what was initially discussed. Hell, I've even had clients come in confused as to what/who is the top and who is the bottom- courtesy of the fact that there were multiple 'Tristans' working in the same city...LOL

[maxwellissmart]

Maxwell...you are aptly named for the purposes of this forum. Excellent, excellent post...and not just because you're so nice to me in it!

 

I agree with virtually every statement you say. Expect more haggling in the future; as Men4RentNow is now seeming to be leaning towards this 'What does the client want to pay' auction type system. Given that most clients preview escorts through both RB, Men4RentNow, Hell- Craigslist, in addition to Daddy's boards themselves...I'd expect more of that same haphazard forgetfullness of what was initially discussed. Hell, I've even had clients come in confused as to what/who is the top and who is the bottom- courtesy of the fact that there were multiple 'Tristans' working in the same city...LOL

 

You're welcome, Hotstuff.

 

My favorite is when someone contacts me and I respond right away and they're all like:

"Kevin? Is that you, Kevin?"

"No.. it's not Kevin."

"Well I was looking for Kevin. Can you send me some pics?"

"They're on my profile."

"Are you hotter than Kevin?"

"Grrr." (sound of telephone disconnecting)

 

I think everything with M4RN will work out fine. I'm am kind of surprised that something else hasn't come along to give it some real competition. Especially since their pricing and policies are kinda draconian, and their customer service isn't exactly cheerful.

[Strafe13]

If they show both an hourly rate and an overnight rate, and the overnight rate is not a direct multiple of the hourly rate, then in all likelihood he'll offer a discount for a multi-hour appointment. I thought most guys do this, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

 

Oliver's approach is a good one... specify how long you'd like to be together, and include info like whether you will be going out for dinner and such. Then let the escort offer a rate for the whole package. It's less "bargaining" than it is just negotiating for a package of services. If he just offers a multiple of his hourly rate, well, then you know without having to have asked straight out. But again, I think most guys do some kind of multi-hour discount.

 

Thanks for the advice, Nate. I bit the bullet and contacted a relative newbie from his ad on rentboy in NYC. I asked about any multi-hour discounts, and after an initial misunderstanding, he actually asked me for suggestions about how to craft the block discounts. I didn't feel too comfortable with that, so I pointed him to two ads on rentboy for escorts who prominently display multi-hour block appointments, and suggested that he use that as a guide. He's now offered me a block rate that's a bit below his single-hour rate, but still outside my budget, so I have to summon up the courage to write back and tell him that it won't work out. But, this was an exercise in being more forward and at least asking questions I'd initially found uncomfortable. Thanks to you guys for pushing me to take that step.