A Weighty Issue

[orbital sander]

Isn't being attracted to black men specifically because they are black also a fulfillment of the term "racist?" There are plenty of clients out there like that, who like black guys, Asian guys and the like—and use escorting as a means for making those sorts of fantasies a reality.

 

(meanwhile, my favorite black client REFUSES to call me, the bastard. I thought I was going to have one the other day and he flaked out on me, dammit.)

 

No. Racism needs to include the ideal that one race is superior, more advanced, and inherently better than another race.

[seeker630]

Isn't being attracted to black men specifically because they are black also a fulfillment of the term "racist?" There are plenty of clients out there like that, who like black guys, Asian guys and the like—and use escorting as a means for making those sorts of fantasies a reality.

 

(meanwhile, my favorite black client REFUSES to call me, the bastard. I thought I was going to have one the other day and he flaked out on me, dammit.)

 

Max, I guess it depends on your definition of 'racism'. I've known white guys who would only date black guys, and black guys who only dated white guys. They had racial preferences, certainly. As to WHY they had those preferences...I have no idea!

 

I think it's a complex and confusing subject that's difficult to discuss rationally because it's a visceral subject for many.

 

But it bothers me when people say we CAN'T discuss it, or 'you could never understand...' - if no one is willling to TRY, then the odds for progress and mutual understanding seem pretty small.

[maxwellissmart]

Max, I guess it depends on your definition of 'racism'. I've known white guys who would only date black guys, and black guys who only dated white guys. They had racial preferences, certainly. As to WHY they had those preferences...I have no idea!

 

I think it's a complex and confusing subject that's difficult to discuss rationally because it's a visceral subject for many.

 

But it bothers me when people say we CAN'T discuss it, or 'you could never understand...' - if no one is willling to TRY, then the odds for progress and mutual understanding seem pretty small.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to cheapen an obvious problem. I actually have no idea who is what on the message boards as far as race goes—I just thought we were all slightly hateful rather than being black, white, etc.

 

[Strafe13]

BVB - do you think gays experience less daily hatred than racial or ethnic groups?

 

I know this was addressed to BVB, but I'll take a stab at it. As a gay man of color I have had both people of color and gays (not that these are mutually exclusive groups) ask me this question, or some variation of it. I will say that there are similarities between the struggles faced by racial/ethnic minorities in this country and those faced by sexual minorities, and there are also stark differences. People of color can often seek solace from the discrimination they face from the greater society by retreating to their families or similar communities, whereby LGBTs, at least when growing up, typically cannot. But white LGBTs typically can choose not to see racial discrimination because it doesn't typically affect them directly, and (excepting our trans brothers and sisters), they can often "pass" and choose not to be identified by their orientation in certain situations so as to avoid discrimination, whereas most racial minorities typically cannot do so. I have found, in my experience, that it is often difficult to try and explain racial issues to many, if not most, white people, because they simply cannot understand, particularly in this modern time where no one wants to be seen as racist or face the repercussions of same, and will tell me a thousand times over how race wasn't really the issue in a particular situation, when my common sense/experience and that of practically every other person of color I speak to tells me that race was an issue.

 

But "daily hatred" is very difficult to qualify, so I am unsure what you mean. For example, in New York City, a huge issue is the stop-and-frisk policy by the police whereas last year they stopped over 685,000 people, 85% of whom were black and Hispanic, even though blacks and Hispanics are only half the city's population (and the total number of young black and Hispanic men stopped exceeded our total number in the city!). I don't know of any such scenarios where LGBTs are so targeted. But LGBTs suffer hate crimes at a disproportionately higher rate than any other group and face public referenda on our rights that racial/ethnic minorities no longer face. How do you compare these two experiences? They're both terrible. Is asking who experiences more such hatred really a question that gets us anywhere? But when communities come together to address the shared oppression, that makes waves. As another example, the New York City LGBT community was a big part of the Father's Day protest against the NYPD's stop-and-frisk policy. I long for the day when oppressed communities all over come together and no longer allow groups like the Nat'l Org for Marriage to divide us, so that real positive change can take place.

[bigvalboy]

BVB - do you think gays experience less daily hatred than racial or ethnic groups?

 

Well yes seek..I worked in my company for 10 years before even my partner knew that I was gay. It would be difficult for a person of color or any ethnic group for that matter to hide his ethnicity.

 

Why so much of what has been said, denying that this is an issue of race, is complicated, because for one, It is virtually impossible to tell that I am black, either by looking at me or speaking to me, so that being said, I will just say that I could fill pages of stories of the racism that I have seen from people who will publicly say one thing on front of me, but behind closed doors those same people will turn to me, not knowing my race, and say the most vile and hateful things about people of color, and laugh and joke about it...I have seen it all. And those same people will get up publicly on their soap box and shout to the world how fair and balanced they are...it is laughable seek.

 

Trying to convince people how deep seeded racial problems are in this country is impossible. Most as you can tell on this forum, do not and will not acknowledge the real problem, they will call this issue anything, except what it really is.... and you nor I or anyone else will ever change that. EVER...and that is just the way the world is seek. That is why when all of this happened, if you read my original post, I was a little surprised, but rather matter-of-fact about it. I was surprised mainly because I find most gay people to be rather open minded. I don't think you will see that I showed any anger when discussing what originally had happened. At any rate, gotta be up a 5 am.

 

talk soon, BVB

[Strafe13]

As seeker has touched upon, sex inherently has a whole lot of crazy power dynamics going on (that's part of what makes it fun), and race, at least in Western society, and particularly in the U.S., is rife with power dynamics. I like all kinds of guys, but I tend to have a weakness for Russian and Italian white guys (maybe because I went to junior high with large populations of those students, so when my sexuality emerged in my pre-teen years, I imprinted on the boys I was surrounded by everyday). It doesn't make one racist to be attracted to or to feel more comfortable with certain groups of people (either one's "own" or those of different groups). Within the realm of the fantasy, if you want a different-race partner who fulfills a fetish or desire, that's fine (and a helluva lot of fun), but that certainly can't sustain more than flings, because what person would stay in a real relationship with another just because he fulfills a racial stereotype or fetish?

 

As for racist, I've always been taught that the term implies the use of power in expression of certain racial attitudes, such as refusing service to certain people, segregating schools or workplaces, housing discrimination, etc. The simple acknowledgement that race matters does not make one racist. It's what one does on the basis of race or where race is a factor, that, in my opinion, may constitute racism or racist acts.

 

Max, I guess it depends on your definition of 'racism'. I've known white guys who would only date black guys, and black guys who only dated white guys. They had racial preferences, certainly. As to WHY they had those preferences...I have no idea!

 

I think it's a complex and confusing subject that's difficult to discuss rationally because it's a visceral subject for many.

 

But it bothers me when people say we CAN'T discuss it, or 'you could never understand...' - if no one is willling to TRY, then the odds for progress and mutual understanding seem pretty small.

[bigvalboy]

I have found, in my experience, that it is often difficult to try and explain racial issues to many, if not most, white people, because they simply cannot understand, particularly in this modern time where no one wants to be seen as racist or face the repercussions of same, and will tell me a thousand times over how race wasn't really the issue in a particular situation, when my common sense/experience and that of practically every other person of color I speak to tells me that race was an issue.

 

 

Excellent and well said, as was everything else that you wrote, but this espcecially caught my eye.

 

Cheers,BVB

[bigvalboy]

Well this certainly was most impressive...tried to print it out to re-read on the plane, but the program will not allow that, so for now I will just save it to re-read upon my return...

 

Be Well, BVB

[seeker630]

I know this was addressed to BVB, but I'll take a stab at it. As a gay man of color I have had both people of color and gays (not that these are mutually exclusive groups) ask me this question, or some variation of it. I will say that there are similarities between the struggles faced by racial/ethnic minorities in this country and those faced by sexual minorities, and there are also stark differences. People of color can often seek solace from the discrimination they face from the greater society by retreating to their families or similar communities, whereby LGBTs, at least when growing up, typically cannot. But white LGBTs typically can choose not to see racial discrimination because it doesn't typically affect them directly, and (excepting our trans brothers and sisters), they can often "pass" and choose not to be identified by their orientation in certain situations so as to avoid discrimination, whereas most racial minorities typically cannot do so. I have found, in my experience, that it is often difficult to try and explain racial issues to many, if not most, white people, because they simply cannot understand, particularly in this modern time where no one wants to be seen as racist or face the repercussions of same, and will tell me a thousand times over how race wasn't really the issue in a particular situation, when my common sense/experience and that of practically every other person of color I speak to tells me that race was an issue.

 

But "daily hatred" is very difficult to qualify, so I am unsure what you mean. For example, in New York City, a huge issue is the stop-and-frisk policy by the police whereas last year they stopped over 685,000 people, 85% of whom were black and Hispanic, even though blacks and Hispanics are only half the city's population (and the total number of young black and Hispanic men stopped exceeded our total number in the city!). I don't know of any such scenarios where LGBTs are so targeted. But LGBTs suffer hate crimes at a disproportionately higher rate than any other group and face public referenda on our rights that racial/ethnic minorities no longer face. How do you compare these two experiences? They're both terrible. Is asking who experiences more such hatred really a question that gets us anywhere? But when communities come together to address the shared oppression, that makes waves. As another example, the New York City LGBT community was a big part of the Father's Day protest against the NYPD's stop-and-frisk policy. I long for the day when oppressed communities all over come together and no longer allow groups like the Nat'l Org for Marriage to divide us, so that real positive change can take place.

 

Strafe, my question was at least partly rhetorical, although I genuinely wanted to know BVB's views (particularly since he had said that his race isn't obvious.) I wanted to point out that many people here have also experienced hatred.

 

Its always seemed to me that people who are the victims of discrimination should have more empathy towards other groups who are victims of discrimination, but sadly, that's often (usually?) not the case. There are gays who are racist and minorities who are homophobic. On my more pessimistic and misanthopic days, I sometimes feel that every group which is the victim of discimination tries to find another group they can look down on and feel superior to.

 

You raise an interesting point about what you see as a reluctance to acknowledge racism because we know we're not 'supposed to be' racist. When we view the same thing from different sides of a color line and one of us sees racism and the other doesn't - is it your expectation, based on life experieces and cultural history, or is it my unwillingness to admit the existence of racism because I want to think we're better than that? With respect, I would doubt that either of us is ALWAYS right in our assessment.

 

 

Well yes seek..I worked in my company for 10 years before even my partner knew that I was gay. It would be difficult for a person of color or any ethnic group for that matter to hide his ethnicity.

 

Why so much of what has been said, denying that this is an issue of race, is complicated, because for one, It is virtually impossible to tell that I am black, either by looking at me or speaking to me, so that being said, I will just say that I could fill pages of stories of the racism that I have seen from people who will publicly say one thing on front of me, but behind closed doors those same people will turn to me, not knowing my race, and say the most vile and hateful things about people of color, and laugh and joke about it...I have seen it all. And those same people will get up publicly on their soap box and shout to the world how fair and balanced they are...it is laughable seek.

 

Trying to convince people how deep seeded racial problems are in this country is impossible. Most as you can tell on this forum, do not and will not acknowledge the real problem, they will call this issue anything, except what it really is.... and you nor I or anyone else will ever change that. EVER...and that is just the way the world is seek. That is why when all of this happened, if you read my original post, I was a little surprised, but rather matter-of-fact about it. I was surprised mainly because I find most gay people to be rather open minded. I don't think you will see that I showed any anger when discussing what originally had happened. At any rate, gotta be up a 5 am.

 

talk soon, BVB

 

BVB - thanks for thanking the time to respond. I DID think that your original response was more one of surprise than anger.

 

I hope you will not assume that EVERYONE is a lost cause.

 

As seeker has touched upon, sex inherently has a whole lot of crazy power dynamics going on (that's part of what makes it fun), and race, at least in Western society, and particularly in the U.S., is rife with power dynamics. I like all kinds of guys, but I tend to have a weakness for Russian and Italian white guys (maybe because I went to junior high with large populations of those students, so when my sexuality emerged in my pre-teen years, I imprinted on the boys I was surrounded by everyday). It doesn't make one racist to be attracted to or to feel more comfortable with certain groups of people (either one's "own" or those of different groups). Within the realm of the fantasy, if you want a different-race partner who fulfills a fetish or desire, that's fine (and a helluva lot of fun), but that certainly can't sustain more than flings, because what person would stay in a real relationship with another just because he fulfills a racial stereotype or fetish?

 

As for racist, I've always been taught that the term implies the use of power in expression of certain racial attitudes, such as refusing service to certain people, segregating schools or workplaces, housing discrimination, etc. The simple acknowledgement that race matters does not make one racist. It's what one does on the basis of race or where race is a factor, that, in my opinion, may constitute racism or racist acts.

 

My definition of racism too goes beyond simply acknowledging differences and includes belief in the inferiority of others (even if that belief is hidden & not expressed in actions.)

[+ Tom Isern]

the tricky thing about desire is that we are conditioned by cultural forces to desire certain kinds of bodies, certain kinds of faces, certain racial characteristics, etc. so desire is something that we learn, something that we are disciplined into, but yet we also experience desire as something that comes out of us, something that we feel deep inside as part of our "core" identity. and while we can see, those of us who are old enough, that our desires have changed/evolved over time (i'm no longer into twinks, for instance. at one time, however, i thought my life would end, effectively, at 30), yet we experience desire as something that is stable and unchanging. we are attracted. we are apathetic. we are repulsed. and we know it immediately; all we have to do is look at someone.

 

i believe the reason we are mired in this very-human trap is best accounted for by the unconscious. and the thing about placing desire in the unconscious: we don't really get to control who and what we find desirable because it is out of our control. therefore, i think it's a little problematic to call someone a racist because he or she doesn't find members of a particular racial group attractive. that is that person's subjective experience. if desire were something we could control, like admitting someone to a restaurant, then it would be. but desire just doesn't work that way. while clearly "racial," perhaps not "racist."

 

i grew up in a part of the world where there were no people of color, and when i first started experiencing desire, i didn't feel anything for people with dark skin. i believed that i "just wasn't into" people of color. the reality, however, is that the pallet of desirable people presented to me in my world up to that point had included only white people. it's hard, not impossible, but at least understandable how people would maybe not desire what they've never contemplated, seen, or had presented to them as desire-able. and that can start to feel "natural." when i moved to the "big city," (that would be minneapolis), i quickly learned that there were in fact people of color who turned my crank. that was an "ah-ha" moment for me. not just a growth moment for me sexually, but an insight into the complex workings of the unconscious mind and desire.

 

i think it is important, however, for people to be self-critical of what and whom they find desirable. to think through what they experience as "natural." to at least think about it. our desires, while experienced as tied to our deepest core identities, are also constituted by powerful external forces, many of them overtly racist. these are easily internalized. and desire gets channelled into very narrow "appropriate" modes of expression. desire discriminates. being open to change, and self aware enough to challenge ourselves, are perhaps good places to start.

 

escorting is an excellent training ground to learn to separate oneself from controlling discourses of desire. i don't believe escorts generally learn to desire their clients. as chloe says in the movie by that name, perhaps we learn to find something attractive in each person we meet. i hope that's true. one of the more interesting ideas, and what i believe to be closer to true, is that we learn to have sex outside of desire. and if you know cognitive dissonance, this is where really interesting things can start to happen. i also believe this is why escorts are so stigmatized. it's not because we have sex for money. it's because we have sex outside of desire. that is still taboo in our culture. it's the definition of the slut. the *****.

 

that's my two cents, anyway.

[Strafe13]

Very well said, Tom. I also experienced a change in my "desires" both racially and from a point of different body types and personality types, as well as age ranges. Some of that was unconscious, more likely just a matter of maturing and being naturally open to change and seeing desirability arise organically where I previously did not experience it. But other things were conscious, and for me personally, I found unacceptable my internal desires based on racial stereotypes. I actively challenged myself to analyze how I had internalized our society's messages about beauty and race and body type, and I find many more different types of men attractive now than I did in my early 20s, for example. Desire can often feel like an innate and intractable thing, but, as with virtually anything else of the human mind, it is inherently malleable and subject to self-analysis and change. Tom, you expressed everything I wanted to say on the subject, but my mind was all pooped. I love sexy men who are also smart and eloquent! Guys like you and Juan of Vancouver just do it for me with your well-written mind-fucks! :-P

 

the tricky thing about desire is that we are conditioned by cultural forces to desire certain kinds of bodies, certain kinds of faces, certain racial characteristics, etc. so desire is something that we learn, something that we are disciplined into, but yet we also experience desire as something that comes out of us, something that we feel deep inside as part of our "core" identity. and while we can see, those of us who are old enough, that our desires have changed/evolved over time (i'm no longer into twinks, for instance. at one time, however, i thought my life would end, effectively, at 30), yet we experience desire as something that is stable and unchanging. we are attracted. we are apathetic. we are repulsed. and we know it immediately; all we have to do is look at someone.

 

i believe the reason we are mired in this very-human trap is best accounted for by the unconscious. and the thing about placing desire in the unconscious: we don't really get to control who and what we find desirable because it is out of our control. therefore, i think it's a little problematic to call someone a racist because he or she doesn't find members of a particular racial group attractive. that is that person's subjective experience. if desire were something we could control, like admitting someone to a restaurant, then it would be. but desire just doesn't work that way. while clearly "racial," perhaps not "racist."

 

i grew up in a part of the world where there were no people of color, and when i first started experiencing desire, i didn't feel anything for people with dark skin. i believed that i "just wasn't into" people of color. the reality, however, is that the pallet of desirable people presented to me in my world up to that point had included only white people. it's hard, not impossible, but at least understandable how people would maybe not desire what they've never contemplated, seen, or had presented to them as desire-able. and that can start to feel "natural." when i moved to the "big city," (that would be minneapolis), i quickly learned that there were in fact people of color who turned my crank. that was an "ah-ha" moment for me. not just a growth moment for me sexually, but an insight into the complex workings of the unconscious mind and desire.

 

i think it is important, however, for people to be self-critical of what and whom they find desirable. to think through what they experience as "natural." to at least think about it. our desires, while experienced as tied to our deepest core identities, are also constituted by powerful external forces, many of them overtly racist. these are easily internalized. and desire gets channelled into very narrow "appropriate" modes of expression. desire discriminates. being open to change, and self aware enough to challenge ourselves, are perhaps good places to start.

 

escorting is an excellent training ground to learn to separate oneself from controlling discourses of desire. i don't believe escorts generally learn to desire their clients. as chloe says in the movie by that name, perhaps we learn to find something attractive in each person we meet. i hope that's true. one of the more interesting ideas, and what i believe to be closer to true, is that we learn to have sex outside of desire. and if you know cognitive dissonance, this is where really interesting things can start to happen. i also believe this is why escorts are so stigmatized. it's not because we have sex for money. it's because we have sex outside of desire. that is still taboo in our culture. it's the definition of the slut. the *****.

 

that's my two cents, anyway.

[bigvalboy]

Well Seek, one last comment. While at this point and time I am simply not of the same mind set that you and Tom are, I will say that I have read, several times, both your arguments, and I was most impressed with the way in which you stated your position and challenged my views, which admittedly are a bit of looking at this world in a very suspicious way. You do make a compelling argument, and in hindsight, sitting here, I will never again say that someone who is not of color can never understand. You are correct, if I take that position, then there isn't really any hope of a discussion having any other conclusion than both parties retreating to their respective sides.

 

Best to you and Tom,

 

BVB

[jjkrkwood]

I confess that I am still struggling with the preference vs racism thing - if you are not sexually attracted to black men, does that automatically make you a racist? if you are not attracted to octogenarians, does that make you an ageist? I'm not sexually attracted to women, but I'm not a misogynist. I guess MY definition of racism means regarding all members of a race as inferior BECAUSE of their race.

 

At the same time...it does bother me that the escort in question would apparently reject a client strictly on the basis of race, without ever even meeting him. That seems to me to be about more than preference (because I really don't believe he's rejecting ALL clients he's not attracted to.)

 

Seek, for me its Easy...I equate Racism with Hatred ! And hatred ISNT waht we've been talking about here !

[JackTwist]

Tom,

Sounds like to me you are handling the situation appropriately. I agree that it's wise to share in advance any information about yourself that you feel the escort needs to know in order to make your time with him as pleasant as possible for both of you. The last thing either party (escort or client) wants is to be surprised when that door opens.

[Strafe13]

Seek, for me its Easy...I equate Racism with Hatred ! And hatred ISNT waht we've been talking about here !

 

The problem is that your analysis is far too oversimplified, such that you miss the forest for the trees. As with sexism and heterosexism/homophobia, there are degrees of racism. It's definitely not just "hatred or bust". Someone who won't let their child befriend or date a person of a different race might be against slavery. Yet this parent is racist, even if their racism doesn't go so far as to advocate for slavery or genocide. That you might not ascribe "hatred" to the former attitude, does not change the fact that it is, indeed, quite racist.

[seeker630]

Seek, for me its Easy...I equate Racism with Hatred ! And hatred ISNT waht we've been talking about here !

 

For me, that's an incomplete qualifier - I know people of my father's generation who firmly believed that people of color were inferior to whites but I am also certain they did not hate them. I doubt that most slave-owners hated their property and I'm sure in many cases there was some affection - but the racism is undeniable.

[seeker630]

Well Seek, one last comment. While at this point and time I am simply not of the same mind set that you and Tom are, I will say that I have read, several times, both your arguments, and I was most impressed with the way in which you stated your position and challenged my views, which admittedly are a bit of looking at this world in a very suspicious way. You do make a compelling argument, and in hindsight, sitting here, I will never again say that someone who is not of color can never understand. You are correct, if I take that position, then there isn't really any hope of a discussion having any other conclusion than both parties retreating to their respective sides.

 

Best to you and Tom,

 

BVB

 

This discussion has made me take a closer look at my own views and reactions as well.

[jjkrkwood]

The problem is that your analysis is far too oversimplified, such that you miss the forest for the trees. As with sexism and heterosexism/homophobia, there are degrees of racism. It's definitely not just "hatred or bust". Someone who won't let their child befriend or date a person of a different race might be against slavery. Yet this parent is racist, even if their racism doesn't go so far as to advocate for slavery or genocide. That you might not ascribe "hatred" to the former attitude, does not change the fact that it is, indeed, quite racist.

 

Strafe, your point are all well taken, and I agree, however the nature of this post was about someone asking another person his race, in the context of a sexual encounter. FACT !. Why READ anything more into it than that??? True, we dont have enuf info about the escort to really know, so therefore WHY crucify him before all the facts are in ?.... There are many members on this site that like to jump on a "political correctness" soapbox. I am all for political correctness, when the situation warrants it. All we have here is BVB's impression that the escort questioned his race because the escort was racist... Maybe, but until thats a Fact, i prefer to take a recess......

[jjkrkwood]

For me, that's an incomplete qualifier - I know people of my father's generation who firmly believed that people of color were inferior to whites but I am also certain they did not hate them. I doubt that most slave-owners hated their property and I'm sure in many cases there was some affection - but the racism is undeniable.

 

Well unless you know the escort in question, and know of his morality and ethics first hand, everything that has been said here by Everyone including ME is heresay... Yet everyone, including the OP crucified the guy based on his simple question. How heinous is that ?

[orbital sander]

Well unless you know the escort in question, and know of his morality and ethics first hand, everything that has been said here by Everyone including ME is heresay... Yet everyone, including the OP crucified the guy based on his simple question. How heinous is that ?

 

Everyone??? Really?

[jjkrkwood]

Everyone??? Really?

 

EVERYONE who DID, yes ..... I took creative license. Sue me....

[orbital sander]

EVERYONE who DID, yes ..... I took creative license. Sue me....

 

Lol..OK I will sue you, but I need your legal name, address..and just to save time, your bank account numbers.

[jjkrkwood]

Lol..OK I will sue you, but I need your legal name, address..and just to save time, your bank account numbers.

 

I'm ok with name and address, but unless you have a 12" cock, you wont get the numbers.

[orbital sander]

I'm ok with name and address, but unless you have a 12" cock, you wont get the numbers.

 

Love a man with priorities...

[raulgmanzo]

There are varying definitions of racism with various implications and nuances.

 

A simple definition of racism is making race based decisions. In many cases those decisions are driven by either hatred, ignorance, stupidity or some combination. But maybe not always.

 

There may be times in which it is reasonable to make selections based on race. Like if you wanted to find out what black americans think on some subject, or maybe even to satisfy some fetishistic and possibly even transitory desire.

 

Calling something racist need not be the same as calling that thing wrong. Or hateful or ignorant. In fact the dictionary tells me that racism didn't really become an epithet until after the war.

 

The problem with racism is that there is almost always going to be a better qualifier to use than race. Seriously.

It may not seem unreasonable to say you are looking for an African-American to play the part of MLK in a movie. But even then there may be better qualifiers such as look, build, skin tone, hair color, acting ability, height, accent etc.

 

When it comes to sexual preference if you like guys with light skin, thin lips, average dicks, and proper english then why not look for those specific qualities? If one uses race to look for that person then one might be racist in the bad sense or simply ignorant about how dark, or hung white guys can be or as to how light skinned a black man might be etc.

 

Having and being able to enjoy sexual partners, friends, and neighbors of virtually every culture, ethnicity or race is the greatest gift I could ever imagine.

 

Strafe, your point are all well taken, and I agree, however the nature of this post was about someone asking another person his race, in the context of a sexual encounter. FACT !. Why READ anything more into it than that??? True, we dont have enuf info about the escort to really know, so therefore WHY crucify him before all the facts are in ?.... There are many members on this site that like to jump on a "political correctness" soapbox. I am all for political correctness, when the situation warrants it. All we have here is BVB's impression that the escort questioned his race because the escort was racist... Maybe, but until thats a Fact, i prefer to take a recess......