Tempted to correct, but..........

[rvwnsd]

...Far cry from the old days when a core curriculum was standard in most colleges and universities.

 

Until the mid-1990's, the Core Curriculum at Loyola University Chicago was revered by students and faculty alike. It was one of the selling points alumni used when attempting to recruit students at college fairs. After a change in administration, the Core was eliminated. Almost immediately, students and faculty clamored for its return. The Core Curriculum is back and is, once again, used as a selling point. I can't speak to the current curriculum, but I can tell you from first-hand experience that it was not a cakewalk back in the 1980's. Here's a link to the Core:

 

http://luc.edu/core/about.shtml

 

Loyola is serious about this.

[+ Charlie]

The most egregious example I have graded recently was not from a high school student, but from a young college graduate who was taking a standardized exam to get into an MBA program. He would probably have been mortified to hear the comments of those of us who were reading his essay.

[gallahadesquire]

Only slightly off topic:

 

Can anyone diagram the following sentence:

 

I tawt I taw a puddy tat.

 

Thank you.

[ErieBear]

Only slightly off topic:

 

Can anyone diagram the following sentence:

 

I tawt I taw a puddy tat.

 

Thank you.

 

I = Subject

tawt = Verb

I = Subject of the dependent clause

taw = Verb of the dependent clause

a = adjective

puddy = adjective

tat = direct object of the dependent clause

 

 

Sorry, our English teachers drilled diagramming, lol.

[raulgmanzo]

I learned more grammar from my Latin classes than I ever did in English classes...

 

One of my books in my basement dungeon (*)/ library is "English Grammar for Students of Latin".

Written 30 years ago the authors lament students lack of knowledge of grammar and how the teacher of a foreign language often must first teach English grammar.

 

My grammar in English or Spanish (my not-so-fluent second language) has never been very good and I have to think really hard to remember terms like predicate nominative.

Someday maybe we (or our great-grandchildren) will speak Chinese then at least we won't have to worry about declension, and conjugation.

 

*Nothing beats a sub on a St Andrews Cross having to demonstrate the difference between comparative and superlative or being shown the difference between transitive and instransitive!

[ErieBear]

One of my books in my basement dungeon (*)/ library is "English Grammar for Students of Latin".

 

You have a basement dungeon? I didn't know that...

[raulgmanzo]

You have a basement dungeon? I didn't know that...

 

Yes but for better or worse and for a variety of reasons I rarely host incalls.

Which is a shame because it is a pretty interesting, large and well equipped space.

[ErieBear]

Yes but for better or worse and for a variety of reasons I rarely host incalls.

Which is a shame because it is a pretty interesting space.

 

ah ok

[+ Charlie]

I = Subject

tawt = Verb

I = Subject of the dependent clause

taw = Verb of the dependent clause

a = adjective

puddy = adjective

tat = direct object of the dependent clause

 

 

Sorry, our English teachers drilled diagramming, lol.

a = an article, not an adjective

Otherwise, your teacher drilled you well.

[ErieBear]

a = an article, not an adjective

Otherwise, your teacher drilled you well.

 

We were taught that articles are a special type of adjective, but an adjective nonetheless. Here's a link to a website that talks about it. http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/540/01/

[whipped guy]

I learned more grammar from my Latin classes than I ever did in English classes.

I can most definitely relate!

Written 30 years ago the authors lament students lack of knowledge of grammar and how the teacher of a foreign language often must first teach English grammar.

Still, Raul speaks of a grammar book written a “mere” thirty years ago. I am currently trying to learn/brush up/come to terms with a foreign language and was using a grammar book and dictionary that were written 40 to 50 years ago. However, languages do evolve, and words and phrases that were common back then are no longer commonly used. In fact I learned that certain words are now reserved for only the written version of the language. So I subsequently purchased and downloaded (and there’s a word that was not in said dictionary 50 years ago!) updated books and lessons. Interestingly, one of the “lessons” concerned texting… I guess it is here to stay!

 

Also, analogous to some foreign languages, and according to one of the sources that I recently consulted, there is now a formal and informal way of expressing certain aspects of the English language… as in “if I were” vs. “if I was”, and “it is I” vs. “it is me”. Interestingly, I recently checked with one website to look up a grammar question and any number of experts could not unanimously agree on a single grammatically correct answer.

 

We were taught that articles are a special type of adjective, but an adjective nonetheless. Here's a link to a website that talks about it. http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/540/01/

I think that this proves the point about languages evolving… what was taught years ago is at times different from what is considered correct today.

 

However!!!!!!

*Nothing beats a sub on a St Andrews Cross having to demonstrate the difference between comparative and superlative or being shown the difference between transitive and instransitive!

I am now looking forward to improving my grammar… and just when I thought that I knew all that there was to know about Raul… I find out that a Saint Andrew’s cross is the key to success… BRING IT ON!

 

PS: I apologize for any errors… but not bad for a two-finger (or should that be two-fingered) typist…

[+ Charlie]

We were taught that articles are a special type of adjective, but an adjective nonetheless. Here's a link to a website that talks about it. http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/540/01/

As the website explanation indicates, articles function "like adjectives," but they are still technically a separate part of speech. Other European languages also put them in a separate classification (articulos, Artikeln, etc.) from adjectives.

 

The rules about when to use the definite article ("the") claim that it should not be used before the name of a road, but those profs at Purdue obviously are not familiar with southern California usage, where numbered highways are referred to as "the 10, the 91", etc., which sounded strange to my ear when I first moved here from the east coast, and now I use it automatically.

[ErieBear]

As the website explanation indicates, articles function "like adjectives," but they are still technically a separate part of speech. Other European languages also put them in a separate classification (articulos, Artikeln, etc.) from adjectives.

 

The rules about when to use the definite article ("the") claim that it should not be used before the name of a road, but those profs at Purdue obviously are not familiar with southern California usage, where numbered highways are referred to as "the 10, the 91", etc., which sounded strange to my ear when I first moved here from the east coast, and now I use it automatically.

 

From the first line of the article " Basically, an article is an adjective".

 

I'm not sure why it makes a big enough difference to prove that I'm wrong. But I'm bowing out of the conversation at this point. Best of luck to you.

[whipped guy]

WOW! I recall an issue from a number of years ago where it was argued if "Fucking" was an adjective or an adverb... I don't specifically recall the sentence... BUT we really have evolved... Now the fucking issue is the word "THE"?

 

Try and analyze that last sentence!

 

SHOOT! The Saint Andrew's cross is definitely more fun!

 

And they call what I do S&M!

[+ Charlie]

From the first line of the article " Basically, an article is an adjective".

 

I'm not sure why it makes a big enough difference to prove that I'm wrong. But I'm bowing out of the conversation at this point. Best of luck to you.

 

Language knowledge is one of those things about which people often feel passionately. I'm not trying to do one-upmanship, but if we are going to play parts of speech games, the pedant in me can't help noting that the complete quote from the Purdue page is "Basically, an article is an adjective. LIKE [my emphasis] adjectives, articles modify nouns." The page then goes on to keep referring to "a/an/the" as articles, even subdividing them into two classes of articles.

 

"Fun," for example, is classified as a noun, yet in "I had a fun time," "fun" is used LIKE an adjective. Japanese students of English, who tend to be very careful about grammar, will often write "I had a funny time," because the dictionary tells them that the adjective form is "funny," not "fun." Other words are also sometimes used LIKE adjectives, but technically they are something else.

 

Most of us of a certain age were taught strict rules about grammar by teachers who often had things wrong. My high school English teacher was a real drill sergeant, but one of the points that she insisted on was that the past participle of "got," and any word combined with "got" such as "forgot" or misbegot," was "got," never "gotten." When I proudly paraded this piece of purist grammatism in a freshman college English course as part of my critique of "A Moon for the Misbegotten," what I got was a big laugh from the professor and a red face for me.

[Samai139]

Charlie---Was your English teacher by any chance, British? I ask that because in British English usage, the past participle of get is have got, not have gotten. May sound strange to most Americans but is considered correct at Oxford, amonst other places. If you are ever in the UK try using have gotten or had gotten and you will get a quizzical look---seems they stopped using this form decades, or possibly centuries ago. Interesting how we Americans cling to some old forms and fling others away. Our predilection for turning nouns into verbs e.g. hospitalize drives most Englishmen nuts.

[+ Charlie]

No, she was a rock-ribbed Vermonter (her maiden name was Miss Puritan). Despite being disabused in college, I continue to feel uncomfortable saying "gotten," so I never used that form when I lived in England.

[whipped guy]

I subscribe to a British magazine and when my subscription first started in the mid 1980's I was startled by the differences with American English. In 2012, the differences seem fewer... and perhaps I have become used to some of the Brit-speak... but I would say that at least some of the British terms and usage that seemed foreign to me 30 years ago are now an integral part of American English... and I am sure that it has been a two-way street.

 

PS: I am sure that my overuse of "..." drives some people crazy... but it is part of my "unique" style!

[MsGuy]

Ok, I was gonna stay out of this but...

 

This is a misbegotten issue if ever there were one.

 

You guys are confounding correct usage with academic theorizing about the structure of English. We use a/an/the as we use them; how some grammarian classifies them in his analytical scheme makes no more difference than it makes to a spider whether biologist classifies it as an insect or an arachnid.

 

LOL, now if someone would be so kind as to explain whether or not I should have used "was" for "were" in my second sentence above, I might learn something useful.

[Steven_Draker]

Guilty as charged. My postings have many mistakes, but I can always come with the excuse that I'm not a native speaker and my mother tongue isn't English. Actually I took my very first English lesson when I was 18 years old.

 

That being said, I don't get easily bothered by small mistakes or errors. If I understand the idea the poster is trying to convey, I'm fine with that and I can go with the flow.

 

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/6174/behappyq.jpg

[whipped guy]

As I noted above I am trying to come to terms with another language... and partly by listening to pod-casts. In one of the lessons that I listened to today the instructor said, "We say it that way, but I am not sure why. It just sounds better." In another lesson he said, "This is what you will hear in common everyday speech. It is technically not correct, but it has become acceptable." So if other languages have a tolerance factor, so should we.

 

Plus, most of us come here to escape all the precision and other nonsense of our daily lives... we don't need any further scrutiny when we visit here for pleasure and relaxation. And there is a period at the end of that sentence!

 

PS to Steven: Knowing that English is not your first language I am amazed at how well you express yourself. Would that I could be as adept when writing in a foreign language!

[EZEtoGRU]

I do almost all my posting from my smartphone. Sometimes its too smart and auto-corrects incorrectly. Really makes a mess of the postings. Also, I do not know how to use spell-check from my phone. Finally, the iPhone seems much less user-friendly than a desktop computer for reviewing and correcting postings before sending.

[bigvalboy]

Plus, most of us come here to escape all the precision and other nonsense of our daily lives... we don't need any further scrutiny when we visit here for pleasure and relaxation. And there is a period at the end of that sentence!

 

Thank you WG for expressing my feelings so comletely. It drives me crazy when I get pm's from posters criticizing sentence structure or spelling errors. I often think to myself, are you really that uptight that you couldn't look past something like that. I think that ones life cannot possibly be that structured...but then again I guess for a lot of guys it is. This should be a place where people from all walks of life can relax and express themselves freely.

 

It is often the people that are most critical that a few days later they will post something and I will find several mistakes. So be it!! Ok I am done venting, and I will move on...

[MsGuy]

PS: I am sure that my overuse of "..." drives some people crazy... but it is part of my "unique" style!

 

Not so unique, whipped; since I started posting online, I've found them useful also. No doubt Charlie would be giggling over my term paper too, should ever I have occasion to take an adult ed. class from him.

[whipped guy]

I actually left another forum years ago because there was too much grammar and spelling scrutiny. I interchanged "it's" and "its" in one post and was called out for it... and by a guy who never used the shift key on his keyboard... as in, "one thing that i can't stand is when its and it's is used improperly in the english language." For some strange reason nobody dared comment on his aversion to capital letters... perhaps he was e. e. cummings incarnate?