Republicans Almost Certainly Will Take Senate

[Traveller]

Morning again in America

 

We won big. YOU LOST. Leahy and Benedict Jeffords can go fuck cows in Vermont for the next 2 years as they essentially became superfluous. AGAIN. WE WON. YOU LOST BIG TIME.

 

The Bush Doctor is basically Clinton. Doncha just hate it when we co-op your game plan.

 

The judicial appointees that Leahy wouldn't even let out of committee are now judges. AGAIN. WE WON THE WHOLE ENCHILDA. YOU LOST ANY AND ALL POWER.

 

Later.

 

PS. And hopefully the estate tax repeal will be made permanent. My parents aren't getting any younger.

 

PPS. WE WON. YOU LOST.

[+ Lucky]

RE: Morning again in America

 

I see trav has climbed out of his k-hole to discover that it is morning!:-)

[Donnie]

RE: Morning again in America

 

>PS. And hopefully the estate tax repeal will be made

>permanent. My parents aren't getting any younger.

 

Unfortunately, you'll probably OD and die before them, and then "the Israeli BF" can find some other shallow, rich, self-hating fag to leech onto.

[Guest Merlin]

It is absurd and dishonest to compare Bush to Hitler or the fascists. I didnt hear a single Republican candidate say anything hatful, but I heard a lot of Dems preaching hatred of the rich, Christians, the right, etc. It is worthwhile to point the the single most important reason Hitler came to power was that people feared the powerful Communist party more than they liked or disliked Hitler. The Communist agenda called for a Progressive income tax (see Communist Manifesto), confiscatory Estate Tax (CM again), suppression of freedom of speech (now called political correctness) suppression of religion (sound familiar?) establishment of a one-party system with lip-service to democracy (i.e. election "reform".

Andrew Sullivan essentially is in agrement with what I said above. The Dems are negative about most everything, but they have never told us what system they want once the hated corporations and rich people have been destroyed.

[Rick Munroe]

>I don't hate Conservative Christians,

>but I am scared of them and what they will do to our

>country.

 

Me too. And I agree that theirs is an agenda of hatred & fear.

 

On a related note, here is someone I do hate...well, what I hate most is that gloating smile.

 

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2002/11/06/politics/06cnd-ari.1.274.jpg

[duke37]

Well I don't want to completely chime in with Merlin but there is something to Arianna Huffingtons book "Pigs at the Trough". Both parties are completely in the pockets of various corporate interests.

 

Democrats might have been able to make a case about corporate corruption and the disproportionate political power of wealth in this country. But that would have meant stopping the Terry McAuliffe feeding frenzy of money. Amazingly in an economy where 401k plans are going up in smoke the Dems grabbed the loot dollar for dollar with the Republicans. At least the GOP is honest about who they work for.

 

Yet another blown opportunity. The Dems are starting to rival the Palestinians in their ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

Jeff

[duke37]

RE: Morning again in America

 

Oh yeah Jim Jeffords definitely is the biggest loser of this campaign cycle. I wonder how long the dairy price supports are going to be in place for his Vt. constituents?

 

Ten minutes maybe?

 

Jeffords is going to get spanked for the party switch. And I don't feel sorry for him. He could have done the change BEFORE he got reelected as a Republican. What a tool.

 

Jeff

[Guest long_fellow]

RE: Morning again in America

 

Q. Know why Putin used such strong gas?

 

A. Wanted to break Clinton/Reno Waco record.

[Rick Munroe]

>Yet another blown opportunity.

 

Mmmm...thanks for getting me back on track, Jeff. I should stop thinking about politics for a while & get back to blowing. :9

[Guest 7Zach]

Can you believe Minnesota, whoa!!!!

 

One nice thing, voting is so personal - it really is one of the best things about this country and our role vis a vis the government. And as the posts above reflect, the posters here really value that right.

 

But for the record, everyone says how mean, unkind, heartless the Republicans are - but it seems to me that they are better at seeing both sides of an issue. Oklahoma kept cock fighting, tennessee finally got a lottery, and nevada banned both marijuana and gay marriages. This really is a huge country...

 

And the posters' favorite posterboy for full and complete gay rights, Al Gore, is left standing. He did nothing to help the Democrats in this election, no campaigning, etc. Sorta like Earl Long running for election after he was institutionalized for bi-polar (or just plain crazy) - he was the only candidate certified sane. Same with Gore - the only one not rebuked by the electorate. And Daschle - appears to be toast nationally, in the short run, anyway - in his own words, "some of the responsibility" for this outcome is his.

 

Favorite election moment - James Carville wearing the garbage can in embarrassment.

[Rick Munroe]

>And any gay man, out or closeted, who voted

>Republican is an asshole.

 

I can't believe I wrote that. I sincerely apologize if I offended anyone (and I'm sure I did); that is just not me to use name-calling or to be such a...well, an asshole. That post (and I should have waited to post it) came after a really weird phone call I received last night from someone I've never met but who, I guess, feels he knows me from my posts here. He said that he felt that gay men like me should just shut up about politics in general; & that maybe things would be better off if "the gays" didn't come out of the closet so "loudly." In any case...I still uphold my belief that we all have the right to think & choose as we wish without others passing judgment...and if it seemed like lately, I was thinking otherwise, it isn't true. The reason I'd never live anywhere else is the very fact that we do have the right to think & speak what we want, and I still respect anyone who thinks differently from me. I've also been learning from the posts written here by Republicans...and realize that I have a lot more to learn before I think of entering the political arena!

[BuckyXTC]

RE: Morning again in America

 

>The judicial appointees that Leahy wouldn't even let out of

>committee are now judges. AGAIN. WE WON THE WHOLE

>ENCHILDA. YOU LOST ANY AND ALL POWER.

 

 

Traveller:

 

I see you and Dubya have something in common.....neither one of you can spell..........

 

Tell us, what is an "enchilda"?

[BuckyXTC]

>It is absurd and dishonest to compare Bush to Hitler or the

>fascists. I didnt hear a single Republican candidate say

>anything hatful, but I heard a lot of Dems preaching hatred

>of the rich, Christians, the right, etc. It is worthwhile to

>point the the single most important reason Hitler came to

>power was that people feared the powerful Communist party

>more than they liked or disliked Hitler.

 

What a crock of revisionist history! Hitler came to power, because he capitalized on the fears and prejudices of Germany. He demonized the Jews, blaming every societal ill on them, and needing someone to blame, the German people fell in line.

 

Since the fall of Communism, Bush needed an enemy, so Saddam was convenient. Keep the people in fear of terrorism, and offer to defeat the devil......that's the strategy. Isn't it amazing how Bush doesn't talk about Osama bin Laden anymore........now why would that be? Perhaps because we fucked up and didn't capture Osama. And Bush has his old grudge against Saddam because Daddy Bush didn't finish the job during the Gulf War and little Shrub wants to show Daddy Bush what a big tough Texan he is. From his childhood, Hitler hated the Jews because they surpassed him in school. Scary how unresolved childhood issues become the stuff of genocide, imperialism, and global pathology. It was true of Hitler, and sadly, true with Shrub as well.

[Guest Armand Tesla]

And the posters' favorite posterboy for full and complete gay rights, Al Gore, is left standing<<

 

 

The thing about Gore is that back in the eighties Gore had no problem allying himself with several anti gay hate groups(one was called "God Hates Fags"; nice, huh?). It was only when he wanted to run for national office and he realized that the Democratic base in the Northeastern part of the country where a lot more liberal than the Dixiecrats of the south that he started talking like a liberal and repudiated his conservative positions on social issues.

During the Vice Presidential debates in 2000 Dick Cheney was more open about supporting gay rights than Joe Leiberman. So as an independent who votes for the person, not the party, I think that some of the hysteria coming from liberals and some gays is a little overblown. I think that saying that Bush is the second coming of Hitler and acting like the country is somehow coming to an end because of the election results is part of the problem, not the solution. I believe the Democrats lost because they didn't have a positive agenda and scare mongered; more scare mongering and hysteria won't elect a Democratic President or Congress in 2004. The Dems need fresh faces and people who see the glass half full, not half empty.

[ad rian]

>It's also worth remembering and learning from some outright

>blunders the Democrats made late in the game. Dancing on

>Wellstone's grave not only disgraced his memory but cost the

>Dems the sympathy vote and what should have been a narrow

>victory in Minnesota, and I suspect it hurt them even more

>in some races outside the state.

 

I agree! And allowing Mondale to debate Coleman the day before the election was amateur hour. Obviously, the media would eat that up and it would be reinforce the Wellstone wake, and remind voters of how ossified the Democrats are. I don't agree much with Coleman, but as political theatre he cleaned up. The Republicans put a younng fresh unthreatening face on their conservative ideas. Somebody should be accountable for the amateur strategic decisions of the Dems!

 

>And I hope somebody sits

>down and analyzes the before/after poll numbers in states

>where Al Gore stumped for Democrats. I'd be curious to hear

>what they look like. I read that all he could talk about

>was his being robbed in 2000 -- to the point that it was

>embarrassing for the candidates he was campaigning for (it

>was as if they weren't evn there). Please tell me this

>isn't who we're going to pick to go up against Bush in 2004.

> Democrats need to get moving on making themselves

>electable, not sit back and hope that the voters are just a

>little less "stupid" next time around.

 

And whose idea was it to have Bill and Hill all over Florida the week before. We are in a tv age, retail politics can't work with polarizing folks like that. It should have been obvious that Bill and Hill would energize the opposing base more than the Dem's own base. Amateur hour yet again.

[Guest 7Zach]

Ah come on, Bucky, there's a lot more reasons to the alleged Jewish conspiracy that Hitler bought into, other than they were better in school.

[duke37]

Isn't that smile just a little bit similar to the smile you get when you get a winning bid on some Olsen twins collectible on ebay?

:7

 

Jeff

[Rick Munroe]

>Isn't that smile just a little bit similar to the smile you

>get when you get a winning bid on some Olsen twins

>collectible on ebay?

 

YES.

[Justice]

Once again, this registered democrat was so disappointed with the choices I was offered that I voted for a third party candidate. (I was one of about 5,000 people who voted Libertarian in New Jersey.) I've been voting since I'm 18. I'll be 46 next month. I've been spltting my ticket and voting for the candidate instead of the party since my late 20's. This is the third major election where I couldn't bring myself to vote for a major party's candidate.) I gave up on the democrats (this year) when they nominated Torrecelli. I take great pride in the fact that I have never voted for that obnoxious son of a bitch. I was not happy when our Supreme Court allowed the dems to replace him -- after the deadline had passed -- when he decided to drop out of the race because polls showed him trailing -- badly -- to a lesser known republican. (The dems nominated him. They should have stuck with him as far as I'm concerned.) I was not happy when 78 year old Frank Lautenberg became his replacement. As I mentioned in another thread, he played the age card when he ran against 72 year old Millicent Fenwick. If she was too old in 1982, then he's too old in 2002!

 

I'm not celebrating. I too am very concerned about the future. But I can't help wondering ... surely I'm not the only democrat who stopped voting along party lines (or even worse ... stopped voting altogether) because they don't like the way the democrats play the game. Our message is outdated. We need to concentrate on the future and not the past. (In other words, we need to stop harping on the 2000 election.) We need to acknowledge, that many people -- including myself -- despise the Clintons. (Not because she's an opportunist who stood by her man and not because he lied about having sex with an intern, but because they have to be the most morally and ethically bankrupt politicians that ever participated in the American electoral process.) We need stronger candidates. We need to stop turning memorial services into pep rallies. (I agree with previous posters who wondered how many votes that cost us! I'm pretty sure that it cost us Minnesota, which was a close contest even before the tragedy. Why did we have to energize the opposition?)We need to stop saying that republicans and everything they stand for are worse than evil. We need to stop the politics of fear. We're not lemmings, so we need to stop having obviously important people (i.e., Barbra, Rosie, the Baldwins etc. )telling us how to vote. (BTW, I feel the same way about Arnold and Heston.) In short, we have to totally and completely change the way we do things!

[Guest 7Zach]

Re: Clintons: "(Not because she's an opportunist who stood by her man and not because he lied about having sex with an intern, but because they have to be the most morally and ethically bankrupt politicians that ever participated in the American electoral process.)"

 

You got my vote, but I would instead put them on the same high plateau with LBJ and Nixon, though I think LBJ was one of our greatest presidents, Viet Nam notwithstanding.

[+ glutes]

I'm going to retire abroad also -this is truly scary folks. Any suggestions where to go Trilingual??

[trilingual]

There are lots of choices. Anywhere between Finland and Australia. . . It really depends on your tastes!

 

As for some of the hysteria about Bush/Hitler: Having brought up the topic to begin with, kindly re-read what I wrote. I never said Bush was Hitler, any more than that sacked German minister did. What she and I said is that Bush used the same TACTICS that Hitler did in 1933, with the same result. The Greedy Old Plutocrats successfully diverted voters' attention from the real Republican agenda (i.e., making the world safe for plutocracy) by shoving Saddam in their faces and beating the drums of war. Hitler did the same thing, except that instead of Saddam, he scapegoated the Jews. And by the way, I'd venture to say that Bush hates Saddam about as much as Hitler hated the Jews! The only difference there is that Saddam actually merits hatred. But as far as being the real source of all our problems, Saddam is no more responsible for things like our fucked-up economy and corrupt corporate culture than the Jews were for Germany's defeat in World War I. In that sense, both Hitler and Bush used phony bugaboos. Regrettably, in their frustration and desperation Germans fell for the trick in 1933, and Americans fell for it in 2002. Many Germans lived to regret their mistake in 1933. I suspect that a lot of Americans will regret their mistake in 2002.

[Rick Munroe]

>But as far as being the real source of all

>our problems, Saddam is no more responsible for things like

>our fucked-up economy and corrupt corporate culture than the

>Jews were for Germany's defeat in World War I. In that

>sense, both Hitler and Bush used phony bugaboos.

 

I am not a fan of the current Saturday Night Live but they recently had a cute sketch where people were complaining about their lives ("I lost my job" "I lost my money" etc) and each one ended by blaming Saddam. Then the voiceover said, "Saddam Hussein: It's not his fault...but he'll do." That's not exactly how it went (I was half-listening while reading a book) and it wasn't funny, but...well, I don't know what I'm saying now. It's 6 AM and my bed is calling......

[Guest Chazzz69]

Now you Liberals know how a great number of Americans felt the entire eight years of the Clinton Administration. As one of my Dem friends said to me, "Get used to it, Bitch!"

 

In politics turnabout is fair play. Now its your turn for at least the next two and possibly, if there is a God, the next six years.

 

Get used to it!

 

Chazzz69

[adriano46]

Chazzz

 

Excellent reply!

 

And for those seeking shelter elsewhere - be careful not to delude yourselves... living abroad as an expatriot is not all fun and games, and few countries have the sobriety of government, stability and focus of our own. We vote freely, we elect leaders from a field (we have choices), we change governments and we do it all rather civilly and peacefully despite the mudslinging in campaigns. We do not have middle of the night coups, we do not have instability caused by interruptions in government by Votes of Confidence (often on very marginal grounds)... Our police do not obtrusively open our mail, listen to our phone conversations, interrupt our lives with threats and insinuations.

 

I am neither Democrat nor Republican; I vote on issues rather than on one's party. I respect others' right to disagree but resent when my own opinion is questioned because I may happen to see issues in a different light or focus. (And is it me or do others find themselves most often attacked by "liberals" for disagreeing with them? My experience -admittedly mostly as an expatriot living abroad - is that many liberals are as doctrinaire and dangerous or even moreso than than conservatives, and highly intolerable of those who may disagree with them). And I definately do not take political advice from Babs.