Discriminatory Entrapment?

[+ glutes]

WTF is up with Palm Springs Police?

 

"He was walking home from a birthday party one evening last June. He saw a good-looking man hanging out in a dark parking lot at one of the gay resorts in Palm Springs' Warm Sands neighborhood. The man flirted with him and eventually asked him to show him his penis.

 

He did so.

 

But the guy wasn't interested. He was a police decoy. The man who exposed his penis was arrested and is being charged with misdemeanor indecent exposure, penal code section 314, a charge that is usually reserved for flashers. If convicted, he would have to register as a sex offender for the rest of his life in a database that is accessible only by authorities.

 

That man is among 24 men arrested last June in a sting operation in the Warm Sands neighborhood. The cases are setting off a firestorm in Palm Springs, a city of about 45,000, with a gay population estimated at 30 percent to 40 percent. The city appears to be in full-scale damage control mode now over the public relations fallout over the sting. The Bay Area Reporter has learned that just last week and again this week, closed door meetings with the police chief and other city officials were scheduled to discuss the arrests."

 

http://www.ebar.com/news/article.php?sec=news&article=4842

[CowboyUp]

Get a Room...

 

Man that stinks. Whether it's indeed entrapment or not, I will never understand why men expose their penises in public areas. Considering all the risks and (sometimes) lifetime ramifications, it's just not worth it...especially in this age, where it's so easy to hook-up online or in a safe gay establishment without possible arrest.

[Guest ChgoBoy]

Sometimes, blatant and disrespectful public sexual activity in neighborhoods causes the police to perform such stings in order to respond to mounting complaints from other home/property owners.

 

And it's not just against us either. It happens against heteros as well. We just don't like it when it happens to us because it feels to some of us that our rights are being stepped on.

 

Inappropriate public sexual activity is just that. If you get caught with your pants down, you're probably going to go to jail.

[uwsman2]

heteros?

 

Since when do police run sting operations to catch heterosexuals exposing their sexual organs in public places?

[wayout]

To go to the effort of setting up a sting operation it is likely that there were several reports/complaints of similar type problems in the area. The extent of the problem seems to be supported by the number of arrests made in the sting operaiton. Unfortunate that someone got caught up in the sting operation but I can only feel so bad for the guy because exposing oneself in and open/public area, even if relatively discretely, has its risks (being arrested is a pretty obvious one).

 

If there was a problem in the area with selling/buying drugs, I suspect there wouldn't be such an outcry if the police set up a sting operation to deal with the issue. Certainly drugs are a much more serious issue (and I honestly think there are definitely bigger crimes than exposing/flashing that they should be dealing with), however without the entire story known (i.e. how big a problem it was, who was complaining, etc), seems like the police did what they thought was right and within their authority.

 

If the police had been ignoring other public sexual activity related to heteros and only targeting this type of situation, or gays are being held to a different standard in the community, then there would be a problem but there are no indications of that happening.

 

As far as how this type of sting tangentlially relates to heteros, I believe that we can make the comparison to heteros hiring prostitutes where stings have been used often in many different communities over the years. Not a direct comparison but I believe appropriate.

[+ azdr0710]

almost certainly, the local neighbors were complaining to the PD about this activity going on right outside their homes and asked that something be done...according to the article, if they're only being charged with "flashing", it seems the PD just wanted to make an effort to clean the area up and not persecute gays in particular....Palm Springs must realize the importance of its gay population, I presume.....

 

you have to take responsibility for your own actions!.....don't "flash" in a public place.....it's not that complicated, folks

[Boomer]

Since when do police run sting operations to catch heterosexuals exposing their sexual organs in public places?

 

I've never read of such a sting against heterosexuals.

 

This has been getting a lot of press in the the Desert Sun. PS depends on gay tourists for it's survival. I wonder if the mayor, who is gay, knew about the stings. He hasn't said anything publicly that I'm aware of. The neighbors may have asked for some law enforcement, however, in today's paper it indicated possible entrapment, slurs, taunting and other inappropriate police behavior. The punishment, especially for first time offenders, is particularly harsh since they must register as sex offenders. I'm not condoning the behavior of those who have sex in public. It's a calculated risk, and some may find the risk a turn on. What's unfortunate is the way that this whole sting, from start to finish, has been handled.

Really bad PR for Palm Springs.

http://www.mydesert.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2010100614032

[Guest ChgoBoy]

More than flashing no doubt

 

This is not about flashing imo. I've never known a gay person to simply be content with flashing someone else outside. It almost always is about outdoor public sex. ie, alleyways, sides of private homes etc.

 

I think the local PD is sending a message. And that message has been sent to them by local property owners. It matters not if the mayor is gay or not. This isn't a gay or str8 matter. It's a matter of personal responsibility and respect for the neighborhood you're soiling with your (not your) thoughtless and selfish behaviors.

 

These are local ordinances being enforced that not only govern behavior but ensure that neighborhoods don't end up looking like your 24 hour bath house.

[jgoo]

This is not about flashing imo. I've never known a gay person to simply be content with flashing someone else outside. It almost always is about outdoor public sex. ie, alleyways, sides of private homes etc.

 

I think the local PD is sending a message. And that message has been sent to them by local property owners. It matters not if the mayor is gay or not. This isn't a gay or str8 matter. It's a matter of personal responsibility and respect for the neighborhood you're soiling with your (not your) thoughtless and selfish behaviors.

 

These are local ordinances being enforced that not only govern behavior but ensure that neighborhoods don't end up looking like your 24 hour bath house.

 

 

I agree that the use of a sting in this situation is not a gay or str8 matter and it is all about personal responsibility. My only issue with what is being done is questioning if the punishment (if convicted) fits the crime. Namely, being registered as a sex offender for life seems a bit over the top, especially since it appears from reading the article linked to the original post that a lesser charge could have been an option. As the DA probably has some discretion in this regard, going for such a strong charge and sentence makes one curious as to if something else is going on.

[instudiocity]

This is not about flashing imo.

 

I agree. Why would anyone wave his tallywacker at a complete stranger in the middle of the night on or near a public street? Exhibitionism? Horny? Whatever the reason, it's inappropriate behavior - straight, gay, bisexual, transgendered, or uncertain.

 

This arrest isn't about 'targeting gays' it's about waving your tallywacker in public. The fact the cop behaved 'gay' so the guy would do it doesn't excuse the waver for waving!

[instudiocity]

My only issue with what is being done is questioning if the punishment (if convicted) fits the crime. Namely, being registered as a sex offender for life seems a bit over the top, especially since it appears from reading the article linked to the original post that a lesser charge could have been an option. As the DA probably has some discretion in this regard, going for such a strong charge and sentence makes one curious as to if something else is going on.

 

It's California, aka PLEA BARGAIN CENTRAL. They charge the max. Scare the crap outta ya. Make you hire an attorney for serious $$$. Then allow the atty to plead you down to a slap on the wrist.

[Guest ChgoBoy]

My only issue with what is being done is questioning if the punishment (if convicted) fits the crime. Namely, being registered as a sex offender for life seems a bit over the top, especially since it appears from reading the article linked to the original post that a lesser charge could have been an option.

 

I agree and think the punishment, if true, even for "public outdoor sex" is WAY WAY out of line.

 

There's a big difference between sex offenders, sexual predators and recreational public sexual activity. If there wasn't we all probably, at some time or another, could have been saddled with a criminal history that was not reflective of our actual activities.

[Boomer]

Since when do police run sting operations to catch heterosexuals exposing their sexual organs in public places?

 

This is not about flashing imo. I've never known a gay person to simply be content with flashing someone else outside. It almost always is about outdoor public sex. ie, alleyways, sides of private homes etc.

 

I think the local PD is sending a message. And that message has been sent to them by local property owners. It matters not if the mayor is gay or not. This isn't a gay or str8 matter. It's a matter of personal responsibility and respect for the neighborhood you're soiling with your (not your) thoughtless and selfish behaviors.

 

These are local ordinances being enforced that not only govern behavior but ensure that neighborhoods don't end up looking like your 24 hour bath house.

 

It should also be noted that the mayor is running for congress against Mary Bono-Mack so there are some political implications.

[Guest ChgoBoy]

It should also be noted that the mayor is running for congress against Mary Bono-Mack so there are some political implications.

 

Well, yes, that will always stir the hornets nest too. Interestingly, Bono isn't too gay friendly either. http://www.electpougnet.com/?p=640

 

Perhaps she needs to schedule a ski trip.

[rvwnsd]

[/url]

 

I think heterosexuals refrain from exposing their genitals to one another in public.

[Luv2play]

I read the article in B.A.R. and conclude that the probable outcome of this incident is that some if not many gays will think twice about taking a vacation in Palm Springs once this story gets around. It is not that some form of regulation of public sex is not required but the draconian measures employed of threatening people with being listed as sex offenders that is way too excessive.

 

I personally feel that sex offender laws in the US are too wide in their ambit and extend far beyond sexual predators to ensnare people who are merely engaging in lewd and lascivious behavior (there but for the grace of God go I). It is not dissimilar to the enforecement of drug violations where many are serving lengthy sentences in prison for merely being associated with drug dealers and being accused of assisting them in some way.

 

Palm Springs has long traded on its libertine tradition and the innkeepers have participated in creating this image of a tolerant atmosphere where many naughty things are enjoyed. This case involving a sting operation on the premises of a gay resort (I assume the parking lot is private property) will lead many gays to conclude that this image agressively hyped by the gay resort owners is a snare, given the reality of the law enforcement on the ground.

 

I have always been opposed to sting operations in "victimless crime" cases. When one reads that in one case the alleged perpetrator wanted to go to his hotel with the undercover officer and the officer spent 20 minutes cajolling him to "show the goods" before he would go is, to me, way over the line.

[uwsman2]

why it's not entrapment

 

Enticing somebody to do something that they would be predisposed to do given the opportunity is generally not considered to be unconstitutional entrapment. So, if I was walking along in a residential neighborhood and some guy started coming on to me, if I was not predisposed to violate the law against public lewdness, I would try to indicate by gesturing or even speaking that we should take it somewhere else. If I was predisposed to engage in conduct violating the public lewdness law, I would haul it out and show him my hard cock.... in which case, I was not entrapped (at least as far as the law is concerned).

[Boomer]

They have now opened an internal probe (no, not that kind.)

 

http://www.mydesert.com/article/20100616/NEWS08/6160317/Police+launch+internal+probe+of+conduct+in+public+sex+sting

 

An editorial from the Desert Sun which is quite conservative, but understands the value of the gay tourist trade.

 

http://www.mydesert.com/article/20100616/OPINION01/6160303/Preventing-public-sex-is-the-right-thing-to-do

[+ glutes]

PSPD: 'faggot'?

 

This story now has now caught the eye of the Advocate:

 

http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/06/15/Palms_Springs_Sting_Police_Use_Gay_Slur/

[instudiocity]

I think heterosexuals refrain from exposing their genitals to one another in public.

 

Spoken like someone who has never been to New Orleans during Mardi Gras :-0!

[Boomer]

Spoken like someone who has never been to New Orleans during Mardi Gras :-0!

 

Or Cancun, or Stiges, or Ibiza...

[Luv2play]

Actually, when I was last in Ibiza, the gays walked around naked on the gay beaches, thus exposing their genitals. A friend of mine used to strip naked as he got out of the car in the public parking lot and would walk starkers all the way to the gay beach, which was way past all the straight ones.

 

The gays also display their genitals on the public beach in North Miami, Haulover Beach, so it's not unknown on US soil. Also, I have witnessed quite a few lewd and lascivious behaviors in the same place in BROAD daylight. SHOCKING, SHOCKING!

 

I guess one has to pick his places to engage in such risque behavior to avoid arrest. Gays should use their Gaydar to detect when it is OK and when they are being set up. If a cute guy came up to me in a place I was not familiar with and asked me to show my dick, I would ask him to show his first and also to show his a**hole, since that is what I believe he really is.

[Boomer]

I think heterosexuals refrain from exposing their genitals to one another in public.

 

Not really.

http://www.mydesert.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=20106180318