Coming out

[MsGuy]

"The Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation conducted a survey in late 2008 that looked at the reasons behind society’s evolving tolerance for gay people. It found that the reason cited most frequently by people who reported having more favorable views — by far — was knowing someone who is gay.

Seventy-nine percent of the survey’s respondents said that knowing someone who is gay contributed to their more positive opinions, compared with 34 percent who said seeing gay characters on television was a factor."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/fashion/23outing.html?ref=style

 

I knew that knowing someone who was gay was a factor in people's attitude toward gays in general but I had no idea it was such a powerful determinant. I doubt many folks come out of the closet as a matter of principle (certainly not me :o), but still it's nice to find out that it has collateral benefits.

[+ azdr0710]

as a few here know, I've been struggling with "coming out" for a few years....biggest fear is that my straight friends who I do a lot with (have almost no gay friends) will distance themselves and that there will be that freaky "issue" always hanging in the air....have been to a gay counselor and a bi men's group, and both have been great, but it's up to me, ultimately....society still has a bad view of gays and bis, it seems, and the prancing queens at the local Pride parade shown on the evening news don't help anything toward acceptance.....

 

just sayin'.........thanks

[josephga]

It was much easier for me to tell friends than family. You only have one family and if friends aren't supportive then they aren't friends in the first place. I first tested things by meeting a few gay guys just for lunch and a few couples so i could pick their brain over how coming out went for them. Everyone told me the same thing that it had to happen to every have a successful relationship. a few couples told me that all over their relationships failed prior to coming out due to the stress and hassle of keeping the secret. In my case I was 30 years old almost 31 just out of the army, never been with a guy. I decided it was time. I met a guy in december of 98. I knew after the first few weeks something was there and that's when I decided to tell everyone. I figured if I was rejected at least i would have him. that relationship lasted just over 13 months. I told my former highschool friends army friends few former coworker, and family. Only 2 people cared my mother and brother who I currently have no relationship with.

[Guest greatness]

What???

 

Then is our fat gay wedding cancelled???? I really want to introduce you to my family and get my parents blessing!!!! :o (Just kidding)

 

I doubt many folks come out of the closet as a matter of principle (certainly not me :o), but still it's nice to find out that it has collateral benefits.

[josephga]

sometimes people ask when did you know? I didn't seriously think about being gay until my late 20's. I do recall as a child watching old reruns of Tarzan and seeing Ron Ely swinging from the tree's and secretly wishing the wind would shift his loin cloth so i could get a peek

[Guest greatness]

Aww

 

You are so cute~~ For me it was Superman and Batman. I don't know why but I wanted to be saved and held by them lol.. I didn't like King-kong though.. Robin was cute too.

[josephga]

yeah i use to think burt ward as robin was cute back then too

[MsGuy]

Latent ambiguity in my prose...

 

Then is our fat gay wedding cancelled???? I really want to introduce you to my family and get my parents blessing!!!! :o (Just kidding)

 

Relax, greatness, I'm out all right, just not as a matter of principle. The stress of holding the closet door shut was more than I could handle.

----

Azdr, everybody has to find his own way. The first couple of guys I told, I was so scared, it was all I could do not to throw up. It's no joke to break a lifetime of conditioning.

 

Two thoughts: The first time seems impossible but after that it gets a lot easier. Also it's likely that this is a way bigger issue for you than for them. Even folks who find the idea icky readily carve out an exception in their minds for a friend of many years. Consider giving your friends a chance to be your friend. They can't be any more conservative or rednecky than the guys with whom I have lunch every day at my friendly local truck stop.

[Guest greatness]

Good

 

I thought I had to return my wedding dress... lol..

 

Relax, greatness, I'm out all right, just not as a matter of principle. The stress of holding the closet door shut was more than I could handle.

----

[NYTomcat]

Funny, I came out 20 years ago and then went back in. Recently I have outed myself to a two friends and one family member. Its actually been quite freeing. I know with time I will enjoy living that way. Its too damn hard to keep that closet door shut. Your so right Msguy

[+ Charlie]

I was very lucky that I really didn't have to come out, in the sense of some dramatic change: I knew from the age of 13 that I was gay; I became sexually active at 17, and immediately developed a circle of close gay friends; at 19 I came out to my parents, with minimal trauma; and since I graduated from college, I have lived an openly gay life. Not only my professional colleagues, but also my employers, where I worked from the age of 23, knew that I was gay and were supportive.

 

This sounds like the story of some upper class Generation Y kid from San Francisco, but in fact it all happened a half century ago to a lower middle class kid from New Jersey. I have long treated my sexual orientation as just a natural part of who I am, and others have seemed to accept that. Although I am certainly aware of the anti-homosexual hostility exhibited by many people in the general culture, I have never been conscious of homophobia directed at me by people who know me. Obviously, if people have known you for a long time, thinking you were straight, and suddenly you start shouting, "Whee! I'm gay!" you are likely to experience adverse reactions; they need to be eased into a different way of perceiving you, since they are probably going to feel that they have been deceived by you in the past--and maybe they have been--so you need to admit that you haven't been completely straightforward (or gayforward) with them until now. After they become adjusted to the new reality, most people will accept it, even if not wholeheartedly, and a surprising number will say that they always suspected it. One of my favorite anecdotes is about a friend of mine who came out late in life to his wife; they decided to separate, and she summoned their grown children home for a dramatic family conference; their daughter said on the phone to her mother, "I hope you don't think I'm coming all the way back there just to be told that Daddy is gay; we figured that out long ago."

[NYTomcat]

LOL. Well Charlie I told one friend that my life would taking a dramatic change and She looked at me and said "thank Christ your finally coming out" I couldn't help myself I Had to reply "excuse me. I got a new job. . . . " the look on her face was priceless until I said "just kidding how long have you known"

[Guest Sanjar]

Coming out has become easier but not for everyone in everyplace. This article in this important newspaper was not possible before recently and it prooves that in some places attitudes are progressing and that we can have hope for progress that continues. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/fashion/23outing.html?hpw

[Boomer]

I think many times people are struggling with internalized homophobia which can manifest itself in very dark ways (Roy Coen, George Rekers, Ted Haggart, Larry Craig). If we hate who we are it's very easy to project that hatred onto others who remind us of who we really are. Much of the coming out issue is generational. There was a time where you pretty much had to get married, become a priest, or a "confirmed bachelor." With the younger generation, for the most part, it's a so what. Alluding to NY Tomcat's statement, when and if closeted gays come out I think they will be surprised how many people already know and are relieved that they too can come out of the closet.

[+ Tom Isern]

thoughts on "coming out"

 

there's always a fear before coming out that doing so will damage your life, one might just become that scary other who frightens and intimidates "normal" people. the values and norms of heterosexual society are so internalized and naturalized--we've "swallowed them whole," in other words, and perceive them to be correct and superior, natural, the way things have always been and--unfortunately--the way they "should" be... it's all ideology (heteronormativity) and we've been force-fed it from the time we were dressed in blue instead of pink.

 

as most who have come out will tell you, however, life begins--it doesn't end--on the other side of that closet door, because knocking that evil door off its hinges is a radical step towards self-acceptance and self-affirmation. living in denial and fear is inhibiting and means that one doesn't grow and develop. one minces. one treads water, and hopes for land to appear out of nowhere. sometimes life delivers an island oasis. usually, however, you have to swim to it. it's hard work. but it's worth doing.

 

a very wise friend whom i had to "come out" to years ago said to me: "there are going to be people who won't accept you for who you are. i want you to remember: 'those are the votes that don't count.'" yes, coming out of the closet can be terrifying. and there be will those who judge and condemn. those types of people, however, are a dime a dozen--and they belong in one place--the rear-view mirror.

[doitb4ugo]

Can't Come Out..except here where I'm a fictitious Character.

 

I have not come out, and probably never will. I thought about it in my late teens and early 20's but also thought that being gay was a "choice" to make rather than a biological imperative. I married and had children and did not think too much about it until I turned 59 and panicked that i would never realize my sexuality before it was to late(hence my moniker: doitb4ugo).

 

At the age of 60, I cannot do this to my wife who has loved me through thick and thin(not too much thin LOL) and I have loved her as passionately as she me.

 

I had not ever even been touched my a man until last fall and now seem to have moved in a sureptitious life, compartmentalized outside of my other existence. Not comfortable for me who struggles with what that "means" but something I no longer control. Escorts have helped me come to grips because I have no fear of starting down a "relationship" road which would leave me in turmoil.

 

I now understand that my sexuality was not a choice and my descisions early in life have bound me rather than set me free. C'est la vie.I can live with myself and that in the end is the most important thing for me.

[+ azdr0710]

boomer, isern, and doitb4ugo all make good points.....

 

boomer reminded me that I should've also said I suffer from internalized homophobia in my first post above....

 

still can't come to grips with society (in part) demeaning gays....I feel one step below normal....I don't want to "disappoint" my straight friends if I came out to them....and I don't want them to distance themselves from me...I know the ol' "if they're really your friends...." thing, but there will always be that "issue".....we do a lot of fun stuff together and I don't want to lose that.....

 

a highly-respected escort I saw in LA a few weeks ago told me there are a couple or three very famous action movie stars who are secretly gay and, if they came out, would do much to increase respect for gays among the general public...

[KMEM]

AZDR-

 

First you have to be comfortable with yourself and who you think you are. If you are comfortable with a "dual" life, then so be it and there is no one who should complain or point fingers. Not even your self at your self.

 

I have to think there is a parallel with spouses who cheat. When they "confess", who are they making feel better, themselves or their spouses? The answer should be obvious.

 

Keep going.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[+ Tom Isern]

after reading doitb4ugo’s post i felt kind of ridiculously idealistic and even condescending. it was the idealism of my twenties that helped me come out and that i was channeling there. it was even more so the fact that i was very privileged and lucky to have met the right people at the right time. if that hadn’t happened, i could have ended up married and probably would have lead a very miserable life. in any case, different people make different decisions, sometimes merely because they were lucking in where they grew up and who happened to be around, and as doitb4ugo’s post makes very clear, those locations and decisions have consequences for oneself and others. is there one right way to negotiate the difficult and contested waters of sexual desire, “orientation,” relationality? i’m sorry if i came off sounding as if there is only one way to do that...

 

i’ve had many clients who are married and--technically--”cheating” on their spouses. i hate that word. the person who is really cheated is the person who grows up in a world where there is only one, correct, “officially” approved option to express yourself sexually--basically getting married and being procreative and doing the missionary position. so all of us were cheated! when a man discovers sexual desires that have been latent for his entire life, but negotiates a secret world to nurture that side of himself, while simultaneously preserving the loving relationships he has in his life--i don’t think it’s at all obvious who is cheating on whom. it may well be true that the wife would actually prefer not to know!

 

eve kosofsky sedgwick, one of the founders of queer theory, in her book “dialogue on love,” writes of what she calls a “post-proustian” kind of love that is anything but heteronormative. here’s the poem describing this love:

 

circuit small enough

that its allure was, you would

eventually

 

get back all of the

erotic energy you’d

sent around it (so

 

that the point of this

fantasy was nothing is

ever really lost)--

 

in post-proustian

love, on the other hand, the

circuit could be big.

 

imagine it big

enough that you could never

even know whether

 

the system was closed,

finally, or open, so

the point could only

 

lie in valuing

all the transformations and

trasitivities

 

in all directions

for their difference, trans-i-ness,

and their skilled nature.

 

it might just be that all the love and care and nurture that the “adulterer” gets from his affair or from his escort is returned around that big circle of life and comes bouncing back to the wife herself.

[doitb4ugo]

Thank Tom...Life is a Complicated Dish

 

Thanks Tom,

 

I really appreciate your thoughts. One lives the life they are handed. Each action in life creates re-actions and as these 2 forces weave through the years, one very quickly realizes that the binary choices of any decision is far more complex than you thought. Right or wrong is woven together with so many of lifes events that as time goes by, clarity is gone and there appears to no longer be just right or wrong but more complex recipes of good or bad, justice or injustice, love or hate.

 

I could compare this to a recipe for a restaurant meal.

 

Do you like chicken? Yes or No.

 

Doyou like shallots? Yes or No.

 

Do you like capers? Yes or No.

 

Do you like dry vermouth? Yes or No.

 

Do you like sage? Yes or No.

 

Each of these decisions is fairly easy to see in binary response. Create your chicken dish and the answers of yes to all of the above no longer ensures that the whole dish will be pleasing even if all the ingredients are acceptable.

 

What makes life so much more complicated is that we do not often know we are creating a "dish" when we choose our ingredients and most often have to eat that which we made whether we like the results or not. Unmaking the prepared dish is not possible.

[NYTomcat]

Well as one of those "cheaters" I have to tell you the reality of the label is much harder to live with than most people would believe. Perhaps some are callous and unfeeling but at least some of us would love a world that would allow us to be ouselves. The reality is just not that clear.

 

Who do we hurt/help by coming out?, Do we be truthful to our selves and others? Who pays the cost for that? There is so much more to a relationship and life partner than just the act of sex are we throwing away what has worked in so many ways because of one (albeit a difficult one) flaw.

 

Ive often been told and believed Life gives us what we can handle and from each moment and conflict or choice we learn. I was out at 19 back in at 20 and now... well Im here. Was that what I had ever planned? HELL NO. Who wanted to be a gay teen? Certainly the events that lead to my going back in the closet were traumatic and nothing I ever wanted... but... the fallout of living through them are my children which I would not trade for all the ... escorts in Thailand (more fitting an analogy)

 

So call me for my actions as you will, they are what is best for me and I believe right now for the ones I love. Will that be the same forever. I doubt it. Very Little in life is forever.. Are these the best choices? I promise though some may think so... They are not the easy ones. Hell it be a whole lot easier to walk out the door tomorrow and move to chelsea and live the wild open gay party circuit. But they are the best I can see at the given moment. IMHO

[+ sf westcoaster]

Doit, you are not alone. I am now a widower and for many years I struggled with my sexuality or should I say tried to deny it. Yes I wandered from my marriage vows and became what some would describe as a "cheater" - was that wrong - I only wish the answer were as simple as yes or no. So many conflicting thoughts and decisions, but in the end I am glad that I never put my wife thorough a divorce or a need to accept that she was married to a gay man. I am not going to defend what I did, but I have no regrets.

[+ Lucky]

As one who used to see this in very black and white terms, I learned from this site all of the various situations that men find themselves in and changed my tune. It's not a one-size-fits-all situation, and each person has to analyze his choices and come up with his own individual result.

 

Being openly gay has worked for me, but I realize that my circumstances have been fortunate. If you cannot come out to everyone, at least come out to yourself, know who you are, and deal with it the best that you can. Isn't it nice that you can come to this site with some of your anxiety, and your questions, and receive a warm reception? I never had any support when I was struggling with this issue, and I sure envy kids today with all of the role models they have.

[NYTomcat]

If you cannot come out to everyone, at least come out to yourself, know who you are, and deal with it the best that you can. Isn't it nice that you can come to this site with some of your anxiety, and your questions, and receive a warm reception?

 

I'm not sure how many "openly gay" men realize just how absolutely true that statement is. While many have thanked HooBoy and Daddy in a recent thread for what he did for escorting. Im not sure many realize what they do/did for those "closeted" guys like me out there. While I mention Hooboy and Daddy directly I dont want to overlook all the rest of you fine people. Working guys and Hiring posters alike.

[Guest greatness]

well

 

For me this site helped me to see other people like me and share my pain and joy so they did something.