Apology

[SFViking]

veering off topic....

 

>make useful observations about one's life. The world is

>chockablock with good-looking, charming, well-mannered young

>men who are delighted to be asked out to dinner, or to the

>theater, and will do their part to make the evening's

>conversation sparkle. By comparison with this army of

 

So where do you find these young men? (Examples in San Francisco appreciatedly, but I'll take generalities.)

 

I love going to the theatre, opera, symphony, dinner with attractive people (attractive young men especially) who can carry on a conversation without the expectation of sexual favors, but I don't meet them in my professional or social realm. (I don't go out to the bars anymore.) I'd love to find a place where I could meet men like this. Suggestions appreciated.

 

You may resume your conversation.

 

SF Viking

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

I get paid for your satisfaction

 

>I, like everyone else, understand that when we hire an

>escort it is for some type of sexual/sensual/intimate

>encounter primarily (it does not have to be intercourse).

 

BINGO.

 

>The additional experience such as conversations, mutual

>dining, theater attending, etc are there to enhance the

>primary objective.

 

As plain as the nose of our respective and collective faces. Some of my clients come to me simply for the "sexual/sensual/intimate" encounter. Clearly, if they were finding it from other attractive, personable, intelligent young men, there would not be as many of us Professional Male Companions/Escorts/Whores//Hustlers as exist.

 

As Mr. Munroe pointed out, there is a reason why clients hire. Another person on this thread (I believe Will) pointed out that escorts often do not have the experience to be good conversationalist or stimulating ones. However, many of the men hired are simply being employed by clients for their youth. Simply looking at the great majority of the reviews, the average age of the escorts, the guys who are selected cover boy (with this month, myself included, being an unusual exception over older escorts thus far) will reflect this to be true. As an older escort, albeit no where near the oldest, I find my clients come to me for my experience, both as a sensualist and sexually. But I also find that many (not all) are interested in more. I think as gay men we lack a lot of intimacy in our lives or, particularly when traveling, between relationships, or for the men who identify as bisexual, we need to find some of what we desire in ways that are not simply conventional.

 

>As far as compensation to the escort, I think that a middle

>of the ground approach is most reasonable. When hiring for

>a few hours or less I think paying the regularly hourly fee

>is appropriate because generally the time will usually all

>be spent within the client's hotel room, etc. and sex will

>be the primary activity.

 

I would agree and this is my own practice. In fact, I have often been in favor of promoting the idea of spending more than one hour with me to the point of offering a discount on multip hour hires. I think they get more of what they seek from me and I can truly find out how to provide them what they need, want and desire. Of course, this is not always an option with everyone but I try to do my best without selling myself or my other client's "short" so to speak.

 

>For longer sessions, or where dining or other activities are

>specifically mentioned and booked, I think it appropriate

>for the escort to offer some appropriately discounted "total

>encounter" price. If I remember your prior posts correctly,

>it was here that you had some trouble accepting this concept

>and I hope that you are now seeing the fairness of it to all

>parties.

 

Again, I have always agreed with this concept even though I know many of my fellow escorts do not. However, I would like to point out to those who do not necessarily agree with the idea of paying for other than non-sexual/sensual/intimate activity, you do not need to. If, as Ad rian may be indicating, the escort simply overstayed AN AGREED UPON TIME, and did not take it upon himself to ask Ad rian if he wanted him to stay, and did not discuss the possibility of any such activity or agreed upon pricing for same, yes, I agree the behavior of the escort was inappropriate. However, without getting into the whole CLOCK WATCHING and WALLET WATCHING discussion once again, this is a shared responsibility. If he is overstaying, simply ask him to leave. It is as simple as that.

 

I will let you into my dreams if I can be in yours.

[Bilbo]

There has been a long standing feud on this board between what we have called Romancers and Whammers (as in wham bam thank you man). It is often rekindled by the Whammers. They seem to think that because they feel that everything in their life should be logical, devoid of imagination and purely utile and since the Rommers are in their world that they must convert us all to Whammers. I disagree but I am certain that these Knights of the Mirrors (Quixote reference) have this quest that we will be in the middle of this discussion now and forever (Cats reference). Well, I would hardly expect them to be looking forward to the same movies I am (LOTR, Potter reference) but there are a lot of screens in this megaplex and laissez faire! Chacun a son Gout! Live and let live! So, laissez les bon temps roulez for both groups, now!

[guyinsf]

I found myself agreeing with almost everything you said until this:

 

>But the client shouldn't expect more than what he is paying for, for >that way leads despair. An escort is not your friend and won't be. An >escort is not your boyfriend, lover, or husband. An escort is not >likely to want to spend time with you outside of the time you are >paying for, for a variety of very good reasons, not least of which is >that the escort and client are often at very different places in their >lives. Further, the 'escort dynamic' can't really exist between two >friends, for friends don't pay other friends for sex or for time. Most >escorts understand this clearly. And, finally, let's not forget that >some clients aren't all that attractive, especially in the eyes of an >attractive 20-something.

 

I agree that a client should not EXPECT more than what he is paying for, but sometimes this does HAPPEN. This is also another topic that's been beaten to death, but I feel I must speak up when I read something which puts, in absolute terms, what is possible -- not just for that person but for everyone. I have become friends with an escort. The "escort dynamic" (I'm not quite sure what that means, but I am interpreting it to mean that the client is still paying the escort for sex) can certainly occur between friends. It's pretty simple, actually: When I hire my friend for sex, I pay. When we decide to get together for coffee or a movie, I don't pay.

 

Perhaps my different point of view is related to the escort/friend I have developed. He is not young enough to be my son. Mind you, I'm not being judgmental about men paying much younger guys for sex. I sometimes hire young men for sex. I cannot see a real friendship developing with any of them, however, because we are at very different points in our lives. It isn't that I don't find some of them pleasant personally, but after the sex is over, if there is anything beyond the sex, I do feel more like a "mentor" than a friend. I don't want to establish friendships with a 20-year-old non-escorts either.

 

Ps to Rod: Thanks for turning me on to SpongeBob SquarePants.

[Rick Munroe]

>(I am continually amused by the success Rick

>Monroe (sic) reaps from the marketing messages he very

>deliberately strews about this site; clearly, he understands

>how to market oneself on the Internet.)

 

I'm glad I was able to amuse you; I live to make people laugh. However, you're wrong. I really suck at marketing myself; that's why I've always been thankful for this site, where the clients do the work for me by writing reviews. I've needed new pics for months, my website still isn't up & running...oh yeah, I'm a real whiz at marketing. I enjoy writing and I use the message center as a creative outlet. As for the success I reap from what I write, how can you possibly know how little or how often I work and what I earn? Now I'm the one who's amused. :+

[taylorky]

An escort is not your

>friend and won't be. here i go again boring y'all with my lack of understanding the dynamics of selling and buying sex..people that sell sex are service providers;correct,so why would y'all want to be friends with your employee.i mean the guy that does our pool is pretty cool but i don't want to hang with him,the people at the jiffy lube where i get my oil changed do a competent job but i wouldn't want them to come to our home for dinner,people in the service industry are there to serve needs,whatever those needs may be.but why would (some of the buyers)want a relationship with them.if it happens it happens,but why should it consume so many

[Boston Guy]

I'm glad I was able to amuse you; I live to make people laugh. However, you're wrong. I really suck at marketing myself; that's why I've always been thankful for this site, where the clients do the work for me by writing reviews. I've needed new pics for months, my website still isn't up & running...oh yeah, I'm a real whiz at marketing. I enjoy writing and I use the message center as a creative outlet. As for the success I reap from what I write, how can you possibly know how little or how often I work and what I earn? Now I'm the one who's amused.

 

Whether or not successful marketing turns into business success is a different question.

 

To my way of thinking, you have been able to use this site to market the 'Rick Munroe' name more successfully than almost any other escort. You've done it by applying some classic marketing rules: consistency, longevity, staying on message, knowing your audience.

 

There are lots of ways to market a business. Some businesses use one method exclusively (i.e., only newspaper advertising) while others aim for a mix. You have successfully built a brand ("Rick Munroe") through use of this site and even turned the picture of your ass into a sort of logo. Lots of businesses would love to achieve this kind of marketing success.

 

Marketing isn't sales, as you well know. Instead, marketing is all about getting your message out to your prospective customers. One hopes that successful marketing will lead to enough sales to meet the goals of the business.

 

Please don't misunderstand my original remarks. I'm not being critical of your efforts here. Quite the contrary, it's been interesting watching various escorts attempt to use M4M to market their services. Many have tried and many have failed, some miserably and publicly.

 

The ones who have failed have seemed to sometimes forget why they were here -- assuming that they were here to market their services -- and got involved in controversies and insults that couldn't fail to insult or alienate some potential clients. You've avoided that trap.

 

Those who wish to succeed at using M4M to market their escort services would do well to go back and study your messages here and try to determine for themselves why you have succeeded where others have failed.

 

BG

[Guest 7Zach]

>Like ad rian said, if you find clients dull, well, you're

>the one getting paid for the experience, not him. If you

>expect the client to show you a good time as well as pay

>you, I don't see what he's getting out of the deal. Sounds

>like all the disadvantages of going on a date plus the added

>disadvantage of having to pay.

 

A shorter way of saying the above is just to call it pussy.

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Rick's Charm

 

I think most escorts stop posting on here simply because it is more likely that this will hurt and not help "business" and, speaking only for myself, I post simply because I enjoy it and simply because it is a creative outlet. i neither believe I have achieved nor do I expect a single client from this site (outside my reviews and I have no control over the submission, publication or comprehension of same) and I have had no instance where someone said, "I want to hire this opinionated son of a bitch."

 

Mr. Munroe, however much money he may or may not make, has a good sense of humor and the good sense to admit where he is wrong, to not act triumph on other occassions and who, at least based on his reviews, does well by his clients. If I were going to hire an escort, that is part of what I would look for but as politicians point ouf in full view of the public time and time again, it is nearly impossible to "stay on message" if the message is neither true to who you are nor an expression of one's own convictions, thoughts and beliefs.

[Boston Guy]

here i go again boring y'all with my lack of understanding the dynamics of selling and buying sex..people that sell sex are service providers;correct,so why would y'all want to be friends with your employee.i mean the guy that does our pool is pretty cool but i don't want to hang with him,the people at the jiffy lube where i get my oil changed do a competent job but i wouldn't want them to come to our home for dinner,people in the service industry are there to serve needs,whatever those needs may be.but why would (some of the buyers)want a relationship with them.if it happens it happens,but why should it consume so many

 

Your question goes to the heart of why people hire escorts. The answer could probably fill a book or two. :-)

 

But suffice it to say that at least some people hire escorts for companionship. Some clients are old, some are lonely, some just want companionship. When you take that and add into the mix an attractive young guy who says things that are designed to make the client feel happy and good about himself for an hour or two or more, it's not surprising that some clients will quickly start to feel an emotional attachment for the escort. It can be difficult to turn on and off one's feelings for another person.

 

In my opinion, this is one of the biggest sources of danger for clients and one that has led many men into despair.

 

BG

[Rick Munroe]

>To my way of thinking, you have been able to use this site

>to market the 'Rick Munroe' name more successfully than

>almost any other escort. You've done it by applying some

>classic marketing rules: consistency, longevity, staying on

>message, knowing your audience.

 

Wow; I've been doing that? Who knew? I honestly did not consciously apply those rules. I guess I'm the Forrest Gump of escorting!

 

>Please don't misunderstand my original remarks. I'm not

>being critical of your efforts here.

 

Well, I see that now; thanks for explaining your point. Perhaps it was the use of the word "amused" that threw me. I mean, do Pepsi and Nike's marketing strategies amuse you, too, or is it just when it involves a dumb whore? Anyway, thanks.

[Rick Munroe]

RE: Franco's Charm

 

Franco, once again you put a smile on my lips. I love your posts because you say what you really feel without attitude and you are a real person online. Plus you're always horny like me. Get your ass to NYC already so we can meet (just "meet"; I know it's Derek you'd rather have but it will be a struggle to make him submit; good luck). :*

[Boston Guy]

When Pepsi successfully turns a photo of an ass into a logo, I will be the first to admit to being amused. ;-)

 

Watching some escorts sort of crash and burn here has been, at times, painful. Most were guys who seemed to be good guys who were trying to make a buck and trying to use a new medium to get their message across. They weren't the first to make bad marketing mistakes in this world and they won't be the last.

 

With others, yourself among them, it really truly has been interesting to see how well they've been able to use M4M to get their message across. Marketing can be hard work. But it can also be fun and amusing and interesting, especially when it works well and even more so when the medium is a new one.

 

Lots of people have tried to use the Internet to market all kinds of products and services. Many of those marketing efforts have failed dismally. Consider yourself (a) lucky; (b) skilled; or © a natural-born marketer to have done so well.

 

BG

[Rick Munroe]

>why would y'all want to be friends with your employee

 

It's been discussed here before that many people develop close relationships with their coworkers and employees. Mary Richards said on the final episode of the Mary Tyler Moore Show (5 years before you were born but come on, it's on TV-Land) that to her, everyone in the newsroom was her family. Then, 20 years later on the Mary & Rhoda reunion TV-movie, she didn't even mention any of those characters. She and they had obviously moved on. I've had clients with whom I've developed close friendships who then gradually or suddenly stopped calling...they got boyfriends, or lost $ in the market, or whatever, and I never heard from them again. It's life and it happens everywhere; not just in the world of escorting.

 

For the record, I love all types of clients: the ones who just want to mutually get off or the ones who treat me like a fucking whore or want me to treat them that way, or the ones who take me to the theater & LeCirque, etc. As the kids say, "It's all good."

[+ Lucky]

I think Rick is more skilled than lucky.;-)

[Rick Munroe]

>i mean the guy that does our pool is pretty cool but i don't want to hang with him

 

Would you want to "hang with him" if he were in a more important (in your view, anyway) position? Sorry, but you're sounding kinda snotty, kid. Growing up, we had a person who did our landscaping and my parents would often invite him out to dinner with us. My parents were always very respectful of waiters/waitresses and anyone in the service industry. It's from them that I learned to respect all people, regardless of economic level. I'm not one of those who ignore homeless people when asked for change (I see people do it all the time); even if I don't give $, I always acknowlege them with warmth (I know, FFF, "What a story. Everything but the blood hounds snappin' at her rear end") (I finally saw All About Eve again with a client last night; he made me dinner & we curled up with a video. Sweet!)

[duke37]

One of the best lessons I learned from my mother, and she from hers, is "you can always judge someone by how they treat their servants". Yes, I know its kind of an odd expression in America but the point is fairly obvious, how someone treats someone who works for them is a reliable indicator of character.

 

If you see someone mistreat or act disrepectfully to someone they have some social or economic advantage over you can be assured that person will fall on some other character issue. On the other hand if you see someone act respectfully and in a generous manner to someone THEY DON'T HAVE TO that person is likely to be worthy in other areas.

 

Of course as you being what I assume to be a good Southern boy like myself have already been taught that and merely mispoke if you said anything differently.

 

Jeff

[pacnwescort]

>

>

> Changing one's image of

>oneself from charming gentleman to dick-for-hire cannot be

>altogether satisfying.

 

Well, actually..........

 

Until I started escorting a few years back, I worked for non-profits raising money for low-income people's causes. I got lots of money for them, partly because I was considered charming and well dressed, even though I shopped at TJ Maxx. I did not make much money, but I was certainly a gentleman.

 

Now that I am a dick-for-hire, I don't wear clothes when I work at all, even though I shop at Armani. People call me sexy, not charming. I make a lot of money, and I am certainly a whore.

 

I have had no problem changing my image. It is both satisfying and profitable. :-)

 

But speaking of money, its seems like it really all does come down to the pocketbook. I have a number of clients who can afford to pay me for the time we spend eating, sleeping in nice beds, and touring great places in nice vehicles, all at their expense. I think it makes them feel classy, which they are.

 

I also have a number of clients who have middle-class jobs and are one step ahead of the mortgage, rent, car payment, tuition, summer vacation, or some family member's illness. They don't take me out to fancy restaraunts, but I sometimes like getting to know them, so I do it for free.

 

Maybe that's unfair, but hey - so is life!

 

Anyone who has enough money to pay $200 an hour, and anyone who has enough looks or sex or savvy to get paid that, is way way ahead in this game. Let's all consider ourselves lucky and call it a day.

 

Steven

pacnwescort@aol.com

[Rick Munroe]

>Lots of people have tried to use the Internet to market all

>kinds of products and services. Many of those marketing

>efforts have failed dismally. Consider yourself (a) lucky;

>(b) skilled; or © a natural-born marketer to have done so

>well.

 

Thanks, BG. You may have given me a new career direction... :*

[Bilbo]

RE: Lucky

 

Hey, Lucky, what a "straight line." So many good answers to that one like,, "I think Lucky has as much skill as dick."? Ah, well, I never was quick witted.

[taylorky]

>

>Of course as you being what I assume to be a good Southern

>boy like myself have already been taught that and merely

>mispoke if you said anything differently.

>

you sir are correct.and i appreciate your bringing what could be considered the statement of an elitist fool to my attention.what i meant to convey was,i don't understand why some buyers feel the "need" to develop friendships with what are essentially employees.i did not mean that this should not happen based on some arbitrary class distinction..........a southern boy ...proudly yes i am . good LOL open to debate!!!!!!

[woodlawn]

Escorts are not servants, and the analogy to servants is not a very good one because escorts usually see a lot less of the client's life than a servant does of his employer's life. Escorts are also not co-workers who work with their clients day in and day out in the same organization to achieve a common goal, so the analogy to co-workers doesn't hold up either. Those are very different kinds of relationships from the usual client / escort relationship.

 

Your first analogy to your pool guy is much closer to the mark. An escort is someone you call in from time to time to do a specific job, then he leaves. I get the impression that most escorts do not want to let a client into their personal lives, which is reasonable, so I don't know why they would expect that a client would want them in his personal life. Does your pool guy ever invite your family out to dinner? I doubt if he does, and doubt if he expects you to invite him.