Will it ever fly?

[jimboivyo]

.......oh yes......and thanks to Glutes for having the foresight to start this threat to begin with. He was always spot-on with his intuition.

 

he just said it was a pr nightmare. he didn't predict anything mechanical. they're called growing pains. every aircraft has them, commercial or private

 

you think boeing is going to let this turn into a bigger issue? just watch. chicago is on this and the equipment will be ready to fly soon. what you're seeing and hearing now are media politics

 

it would help if most of you would listen to a guy like kmem who obviously knows of what he speaks

[RexAll]

' Killing 30,000+ drivers and passengers per year in US autos does not seem a very good deal but we put up with it and think little or nothing about driving to the grocery store or the movie theater'

 

I am just an average layman-giggle I just used the word 'lay' legitimately- but it sounds worrying to me. And the issues with cars are usually driver errors not that the electrical panel is short circuiting and causing a fire and not that the gas tank is leaking and about to explode.

 

Rex

[+ deej]

they're called growing pains. every aircraft has them, commercial or private

 

Yep. ISTR the 777 went through MUCH more than this.

 

I've been wondering for years how long we'd be stuck with LiIon batteries. After their history of erupting in flames inside laptop computers you'd think someone would have come up with something better by now.

[KMEM]

' Killing 30,000+ drivers and passengers per year in US autos does not seem a very good deal but we put up with it and think little or nothing about driving to the grocery store or the movie theater'

 

I am just an average layman-giggle I just used the word 'lay' legitimately- but it sounds worrying to me. And the issues with cars are usually driver errors not that the electrical panel is short circuiting and causing a fire and not that the gas tank is leaking and about to explode.

 

 

 

Rex

 

How quickly we forget the Pinto et al, but, actually that is an entirely different discussion.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[bigvalboy]

it would help if most of you would listen to a guy like kmem who obviously knows of what he speaks

 

 

When it comes to my safety, I will decide who the expert in the room is. Most likely it will be the FAA, rather than some anonymous poster on an escort review site...seriously!

[KMEM]

Another poster who thinks the government can protect them. Good luck.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[jimboivyo]

When it comes to my safety, I will decide who the expert in the room is. Most likely it will be the FAA, rather than some anonymous poster on an escort review site...seriously!

 

yeah cause the government has always proved to be the right option to trust, right?

[bigvalboy]

yeah cause the government has always proved to be the right option to trust, right?

 

No, lol lol.... but I'll venture a guess that the FAA and NTSB are more right than some anonymous poster who may or may not be a pilot...there are clearly issues with the 787, and to dismiss those as simple growing pains is irresponsible in my opinion. Until we know for certain how serious these issues are and how Boeing intends to solve them, my moneys on the FAA and NTSB to let me know when it is safe to fly these planes.

[Frequentflier]

For those of you who are constant complainers about the US government and its agencies (at least two of you know who you are), while it is your right to speak out it is also your right to move to another country. An occasional complaint we all have, but every opportunity you can find to bitch, bitch, bitch, belittle and put down the government of my country is garbage. I believe there are +/- 200 out there to choose from. We may have many laws but unless you are a criminal forbidden to leave the country, don't be shy about packing up and moving. Imagine you'd be happier and I know I would - you can share your views about your new government with us when you get there. I'll venture to guess neither/none of you have any inclination to run for public office and work hard for the change you want. Nope, you like the anonymous screen name and cheap seats. And if you happen to be a gun freak, see how another country welcomes your sick fetish. Funny how you complain yet the bulk of Congressmen running for reelection were sent back - but you need protection from them?

 

As for the government protecting us, the US government has done a fantastic job against terrorism post 9-11. The track record of US airlines and the FAA is one "most" people around the world respects.

 

We could only be better without a few or a lot less crusty bottomed, grumpy, frown ridden faced habitual bitchers.

[bigvalboy]

For those of you who are constant complainers about the US government and its agencies (at least two of you know who you are), while it is your right to speak out it is also your right to move to another country. An occasional complaint we all have, but every opportunity you can find to bitch, bitch, bitch, belittle and put down the government of my country is garbage. I believe there are +/- 200 out there to choose from. We may have many laws but unless you are a criminal forbidden to leave the country, don't be shy about packing up and moving. Imagine you'd be happier and I know I would - you can share your views about your new government with us when you get there. I'll venture to guess neither/none of you have any inclination to run for public office and work hard for the change you want. Nope, you like the anonymous screen name and cheap seats. And if you happen to be a gun freak, see how another country welcomes your sick fetish. Funny how you complain yet the bulk of Congressmen running for reelection were sent back - but you need protection from them?

 

As for the government protecting us, the US government has done a fantastic job against terrorism post 9-11. The track record of US airlines and the FAA is one "most" people around the world respects.

 

We could only be better without a few or a lot less crusty bottomed, grumpy, frown ridden faced habitual bitchers.

 

My feelings exactly FF. Thank you for another post that is "Spot on"

[KMEM]

Personally I am a very strong believer in our country. However, I also think that those who are satisfied with the status quo are not standing still but actually backing up. It is not only our right but duty to watch over and evaluate those who are so called public servants. I also happen to believe that we as citizens should take as much responsibility for our own actions as possible and not be happy when personal freedoms are taken away from us. To a large extent flying allows one to have some freedom of action plus if one does not take responsibilty for one's actions, one likely will die. Some errors in judgement and execution in flying are very dangerous.

 

The US has the safest aviation system in the world and I am proud of it. Is it perfect? No. Is the FAA perfect? Far from it. The system is operated more by those in the industry than the FAA. The FAA provides rules and regulations and oversight and Air Traffic Control. However, the nuts and bolts are provided and executed by the industry itself. That may be slowly changing and it is not a positive thing.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[Scorpio]

Posting "by proxy" what a clever tactic.

 

Reminds of the scene from Broadcast News where the Albert Brooks character prompts the William Hurt character with his interview questions: "I say it here, it comes out there."

[bigvalboy]

It is not only our right but duty to watch over and evaluate those who are so called public servants.

 

True enough, but it is also my right to have a public servant watch over a corporation that has clearly shipped part of the manufacturing overseas, that some have indicated is possibly responsible for the problems the 787 is having. Who watches the Corporations?

[+ ArVaGuy]

True enough, but it is also my right to have a public servant watch over a corporation that has clearly shipped part of the manufacturing overseas, that some have indicated is possibly responsible for the problems the 787 is having. Who watches the Corporations?

 

 

 

 

Someone might want to tell that to Boeing.

 

But who watches the regulators? The FAA has been criticised for being a revolving door between the airlines, manufacturers, and government bureaucrats for decades. Corporate donors get plum Administration posts while high and mid-level bureaucrats take cushy jobs with industry titans for very lucrative salaries to "consult" on how to win contracts or keep the regulators at bay. We can't trust Congress to do the job regardless of party they are corrupt and inept when it comes to oversight.

[bigvalboy]

But who watches the regulators? The FAA has been criticised for being a revolving door between the airlines, manufacturers, and government bureaucrats for decades. Corporate donors get plum Administration posts while high and mid-level bureaucrats take cushy jobs with industry titans for very lucrative salaries to "consult" on how to win contracts or keep the regulators at bay. We can't trust Congress to do the job regardless of party they are corrupt and inept when it comes to oversight.

 

Bottom line is that the FAA didn't build the plane, Boeing did, and now they are in full meltdown, according to the papers as all 787 are grounded. Will the 787 ever fly, absolutely, but who am I going to trust to tell me when it is safe? The FAA or some guy from Boeing. I have my answer to that.

[+ ArVaGuy]

Yep. ISTR the 777 went through MUCH more than this.

 

I've been wondering for years how long we'd be stuck with LiIon batteries. After their history of erupting in flames inside laptop computers you'd think someone would have come up with something better by now.

 

 

 

"Cap'n, She's gonna need new dilithium crystals if she's evr ta fly agin."

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c262/cpapa8162/Scotty_zpse88debb1.jpg

[+ ArVaGuy]

Bottom line is that the FAA didn't build the plane, Boeing did, and now they are in full meltdown, according to the papers as all 787 are grounded. Will the 787 ever fly, absolutely, but who am I going to trust to tell me when it is safe? The FAA or some guy from Boeing. I have my answer to that.

 

It will be BOTH the FAA and Boeing who will certify the airworthiness of that aircraft. The FAA does not have the technical capability to find and fix the issue. All they will do is stand over the shoulder of the engineers and mechanics while they do the work. Then certify it as acceptable. A solution will be found to what is a serious but not major flaw. After all the FAA issued the flight certificate for this aircraft after years of testing.

[bigvalboy]

After all the FAA issued the flight certificate for this aircraft after years of testing.

 

Ahhh just as I suspected, this is all the FAA's fault. lol lol

[MsGuy]

If it's just the battery problem, Boeing can switch to a different type. There's a weight gain of about 50% for the next best battery but at least they don't catch fire in mid-flight. Maybe lithium is a step too far for current technology.

[bigvalboy]

If it's just the battery problem, Boeing can switch to a different type. There's a weight gain of about 50% for the next best battery but at least they don't catch fire in mid-flight. Maybe lithium is a step too far for current technology.

 

Now that was my thought, but of all the reading I have done on this, it would appear that the plan is to fix the current problem with the lithium battery system. Chevy made the fix on the 'Volt' and apparently were successful. The concern apparently is that the batteries, when they do catch fire, burn 3 times the temperature than the carbon fibre skin of the plane can handle.

[jawjateck]

I'm a greedy sumbitch. I was hoping for BA stock to crash, so I could pick up some on the cheap, and dang it, investors bid it up. If a stock can't fall on that kind of news, it's a buy.

[AdamSmith]

Having posted a bit of negative stuff here, let me backtrack. Lithium batteries that work can be had; they just cost a lot and need a lot of manufacturing attention, then quality-control attention. The latter of which numbers of Boeing engineers have been grumbling about having gone somewhat to the dogs in many parts of the 787 program.

 

The trouble is essentially all the competent producers of LiIon battery technology are in Singapore or Korea. They know it, and they charge commensurately. U.S. auto makers for one are furiously investing in university and private research to try and catch up, but it looks to be a long time coming. See A123 for just one example.

[goldsmith]

Being a worker-bee in Chicago, resident of Schaumburg, Boeing is one

of bigger and better employers here. After their headquarters move

here in 2001, they have actively and continually given back to the community:

Adopt a River / Garfield Park Conservatory / Erickson Institute, just

to name a few. I want the company to thrive, and the 787 to excell!

 

As a frequent business flyer I do have a concerns about this aircraft. Teething,

growing pains, etc, (call it what you want) has any other aircraft (old

or new) gone through a

'review' as Secretary LaHood called for last week? The 787

has

gone through over 8 years of stringent testing to get it airworthiness

(?) certification, now they want to review it??

 

The ANA emergency landing / battery fire elevates my safety

concerns. I, and probably others here, are afraid to fly?? No, just this particular aircraft.

 

 

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2263126/Dreamliner-meltdown-hi-tech-Boeing-jets-grounded-Europe-U-S-amid-fears-electric-car-batteries-trigger-fires.html

[KMEM]

Some years ago most turbine business aircraft came standardly equipped with NiCad batteries. The specifications of this type battery made it an improvement over lead acid batteries in several ways. It produced all of its' amperage at a high voltage until it had no more to give where the lead acid we are all familiar with slowly gives less and less until it has no more. However, various deficiencies were relatively soon discovered. It was expensive to make and therefore buy. It required a lot of maintanance. It developed a memory which means that it would receive a false signal that it was fully charged which required it to be fully discharged and re-charged using special equipment periodically. It also, under certain conditions, would develop thermal runaway which could lead to an exploding battery. I know of one case where a battery exploded and basically blew the tail off a bizjet. Fortunately it was on the ground during this episode. The "fix" was to install a monitor so the pilot would know if the battery was over charging. Also a method to isolate the battery from the charging system was incorporated. However, owners and pilots got tired of all the fuss and bother of having a NiCad battery and virtually all now have reverted to lead acid. A few are still out there and I hope the operators of same are happy with their choice. I use lead acid exclusively.

 

Most of you will have already gotten the point and that is "new technology" batteries and the like are not necessarily all they are hoped to be. However, as mentioned several times earlier in this thread, a fix will be found and the 787 will fly on.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[bigvalboy]

I'm a greedy sumbitch. I was hoping for BA stock to crash, so I could pick up some on the cheap,

 

Are you kidding? That's not greedy, that's damn smart. You weren't the only one hoping for a falling price to jump on...lol