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Fin Fang Foom vs THUGCAM


Guest Fin Fang Foom
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Guest Fin Fang Foom

Am I alone here, or are there others who find the "Thugcam" name offensive? In fact, I find most of the NYC "black sites" I've seen to be demeaning to blacks - including "Streetlife".

 

As a gay community, we trip over ourselves to be "sensitive" to minorities yet I find in NYC that blacks are negatively objectified more than anyone else (with Latins coming in second). It seems that blacks are portrayed as thugs (aka CRIMINALS), homeboiz, ganstas, bruthas, freaks, etc. but rarely just men who are black. Frankly, the way they are portrayed, I feel as though they should just stop with the pretense and have a website called "Niggercam" because that's essentially what they're conveying without using the dreaded and feared "N word". These sites are catering to men who are into, what is primarily a white man's idea of, a tough, dangerous, urban black man who looks like he would rob you right after he's finished fucking you.

 

I am fully aware that there is an urban look to many of the blacks who live in urban areas (duh), but to translate "urban" into "criminal" should be offensive to the countless law-abiding blacks in those areas. Remember, it's called "Thugcam" and Webster's definition of a thug is "a brutal ruffian or assassin: GANGSTER, KILLER".

 

Granted, I can understand the turn-on of wanting a "dangerous" looking guy (although it's not one of my fantasies), but what I can't understand is why the black community silently sits by while this stereotype is marketed on such a grand scale.

 

I guess Al Sharpton is too busy with his hunger strike and Jesse with shaking down corporations and shutting up mistresses to worry about it.

 

And just think, many of you thought I didn't care about such things.......

 

FFF

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Guest jizzdepapi

niggas and thugs

 

FFF:

 

good post. i chat online sometimes with latino thugcam model Trouble; two minutes into our first chat, i found out he was not Trouble in any way but enjoys the illusion of this thugdom; he's also really interested and has incredible knowledge about computers and santeria. trouble, along with other thugcam models, will ignore most IMs which don't show them the proper respect (i.e., they are not just pieces of meat, though there are scheduled times on thugcam when many models show their meat). to a lesser extent, i've also chatted with black thugcam models Pothead and Dangelo and have found the same. [i should give an objectivity alert: my main papi is affiliated with thugcam.]

 

if thugcam had been started by one or several of the models, i might say this could be a case of niggas and thugs (their terms) calling themselves niggas and thugs. a white person started and owns this site so it's a different case. surely there are parallels here with GLBTs who call themselves fags and homos and dykes.

 

two good examples of blacks and latinos who are not niggas or thugs are Andre (curently being discussed in Deli forum) and Carlos, NYC-20 reviews to date, new review posted today). I've dated Carlos (hot blatino) and have experienced Andre up close at the Gaiety. they're both sweethearts and present themselves much differently than the bois at thugcam. it would be a gigantic stretch for clients to entertain any notion of these guys robbing them right after they fucked them.

 

interested to hear what others have to say about this.

 

jizz

 

p.s.: on a related sidenote (sorry, no pic), tommy hilfiger was quoted as saying that if he had known his clothes would become so popular with niggers and spics, he never would have designed them. well, he's certainly taking it to the bank on their backs now. i haven't ever bought any of his clothes and wonder why the NAACP hasn't spoken up about this.

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Guest Esc_Tracker

RE: niggas and thugs

 

I was wondering about that. I get very suspicious about extraordinary is-quoted-as-sayings that don't offer citations. We really should be more careful with our dissing.

 

Esc-Tracker

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Guest ChicagoCorey

RE: niggas and thugs

 

In case you're interested:

 

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/hilfiger.htm

 

One of the strongest versions of rumors was that he said it on Oprah. I actually first heard the rumor when I saw Oprah open a show letting people know that it was crap.

 

This Urban Legends reference site is invaluable in searching out the "truth" in matters like this; they examine the facts of the rumor very carefully and do their research. You'd think in "the Internet age" that "Mikey Dying of Pop Rocks" stories would go away, but I think it's just made them more prominent. It's like a "human" version of the computer virus.

 

-------

chicagocorey@yahoo.com

new site and pictures

http://www.geocities.com/chicagocorey

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I too have noticed that the agencies that specialize in black and Hispanic escorts always seem to emphasize the most negative social stereotypes about both groups. Unfortunately, I think that says more about the way we are perceived as clients than about the escorts themselves.

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Guest ChicagoCorey

It might not just be the perception as clients but the reality as well. A quick scan of "cruisingforsex" message boards today revealed two ads looking for "thugs" posted within the weekend -- from white guys, of course. Another case of supply and demand...

 

There's a lot to be said and discussed about attraction and why certain things becomes fetishized. Some of it can appear incredibly offensive. Even those of us who wouldn't think of using terms like those above might still find ourselves attracted to that certain type. We just don't like the way it's advertised because we have enough sensitivity to know better. But that still doesn't mean it doesn't turn you on. So the question becomes "At what point is that line crossed?"

 

It's a very complex issue. Probably not one best discussed on a message board (particularly one known to explode) but I'm always diving in and getting over my head anyway.

 

 

 

-------

chicagocorey@yahoo.com

new site and pictures

http://www.geocities.com/chicagocorey

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Even the AFL-CIO

 

In today's NY Times there is a full page ad by the AFL-CIO headed "Working families play by the rules. Why shouldn't corporations?"

 

The ad has pictures of four families: white (mother, dad, three kids), Hispanic (mother, dad, two kids), Asian (mother, dad, two kids) and African American (mother, daughter, NO FATHER).

 

What kid of statement is that?

 

Dick

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Guest DJPerez

AHHH, Race & Class as Fetish!

 

I haven't seen a good discusssion of this issue for some time. Here's some thoughts from a Latino man who does not see himself as anyone's "PAPI" (forgive me jizzdepapi!).

 

On one level, Race and Class Fetish, such as "Thug"-ism and "PAPI"-ism can function as an erotic empowerment for those with no real economic power. If we were dealing with an overall level Cultrual playing field, the fetish for working-class ethnics would be no more significant than an interest in Blondness, Muscularity, Bear-ishness, etc.

 

However, all our Fetishes can be considered to function within a Cultural context where Race & Class distort and refract perceptions between groups of people.

 

Now Fetish can exist to bring opposites together: the Dark and the Light, The Rich & the Poor, The Young &and the Old, etc. Our gay cultrual Mythos is loaded with models of how the opposites attract and complete one another.

 

Questions remain:

 

With these prevailing popular erotic "Flavors", who gets left out of the erotic playing field?

 

How much do those involved in their attractions "get underneath" to the reality behind the surface of their Race/Class-based fetish? Is the eroticized person seen as an individual beyond the erotic label?

 

What does it mean when People of Color CHOOSE to eroticize these 'roles'? Is this another case of "it's okay for one Black Man to Call another 'Nigger', but stand back if you use the word and you're NOT Black"?

 

Anyone care to dive into this?

 

Peace & Pleasure!

 

DJP

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RE: Even the AFL-CIO

 

Um, I may or may not be repeating things here, but have we considered the popularity of rap music. It seems to me that most of the terms we've been considering here are used in that music and are therefore being romanticized by it. And we all know that white rappers are not taken seriously.

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Guest jizzdepapi

papi-thug-ism?

 

So glad to read your comments, Dave. I’ve found it much more frequently appropriate to address latin males as “Senor” rather than “papi” in travels through Central and South America, Puerto Rico and my home base of Connecticut. Reading your post, “Senor” would certainly be the appropriate appellation. Incidentally, I made my first trip to Puerto Rico several months ago. Rincon, on the north shore, is beautiful but the establishments I visited have been totally homogenized (in the U.S. corporate sense, that is). But the countryside was lovely, the surf (and surfers) breathtaking, the food (in out-of-the-way indigenous restaurants) superb, and the men--omigod. I was amazed to see all of the really skilled painters and artists--some dating back to the Renaissance--exhibited in Ponce who have been so completely ignored in the more usual canons of Western art. Have also been to Central and South America on several trips and will surely return in the future. Pero yo hablo solamente un poquito espanol; es necessario por me a practicar.

 

I, too, would like to see comments re. class and race in FFF’s thread. We don’t often state it here but surely the majority of posters to this message center are white and from a higher-than-average socioeconomic class. Many, because of their corporate positions, are probably closeted too. All of this, obviously but not explicitly, comes into play when choosing sexual playmates. So it would be interesting to hear from those who have made a conscious choice to engage escorts of a different color or ethnicity, especially interesting if notions of criminality come into play.

 

I can only speak up for myself but I have always been attracted to exotic men; an attractive latin male, to me, exhibits extreme traits of masculinity (whatever that means). I think I might be attracted more to blue-collar types than thugs and actually never thought of “papi”-ism as similar to “thug”-ism. I’m not exclusively wed to this--an attractive blond with a masculine body but a pretty face and hair can be very sexually appealing to me as well, though not as frequently as a strong latin type. I also find this true with men of the Mediterranean, some Indian men, and some black men.

 

I’ve also been very involved with leftist politics in the last 15 years or so, including the anti-war movements in Nicaragua, El Salvador, and now Colombia, and think that might have some bearing on my attraction to latin men. I never did make a concerted effort to be attracted to a certain type but I can’t imagine that this facet of my life is irrelevant. Also have dealt with issues of poverty, education and job opportunity in the U.S. and certainly this has bearings on my attractions as well.

 

And lastly, I am much less keen on the idea of any long-term relation with a Senor rather than a Papi. I certainly find a lot more intellectual stimulation with education latin males but, for sexual romps, give me a Papi anytime. I've mentioned on these threads in several places that I enjoy spending non-sexual times with my Papis too but it is in much less elegant surroundings than I imagine most of the posters to this board prefer for dinner and social engagements.

 

I’m sure there are men who are attracted to latin or black men because of some sort of fetish for criminal types and I’d be interested to hear what they have to say.

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Guest FirstPlace

I do not find it offensive at all. They are fullfilling a fantasy. No different than catering to clients who like men in uniforms. No one is being forced to participate. They are a business and appear successful at what they're doing.

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Guest bluboy

My greatest fantasy (as a small framed blond male) is to have 5 or 6 blatinos rape me in a public space. I sought often through the 90s to have this occur by going to neighborhoods where I knew I did not belong and going to Central Park at obscene hours of the nite. Camille Paglia had written sometime back in the 90s about how gay men risk death for sex and when I read that I said amen sister, you speak the truth about my life. So why is this for me. This is highly reductive psychology and does not explain everything but it goes part way. Blatino working class men for me as archetypes represent hypermasculinity in a way that the "prissy" and "near prissy" white men of my office (me included) lack. Hence while I have economic strength, these streetlife blatinos have natures strength; the strength of the streets; the strength of picking a fight and confronting another man mano a mano. In their strength, is also revealed my weakness. A weakness for which I must be punished by my masculine older brother: stop being such a faggot bitch says my blatino brother and I must obey. The policitics is critical to the fantasy so too I believe the blatino men who fuck me also see me as the prissy white male with the money on whom they can take revenge for all their economic suffering. I know, b/c I on occassion I have seen the frenzy in a couple of these guys eyes that they are also fucking me in anger and to degrade my superior economic and protected postion and in those situations the sex is unbeleivably charged. The shifting powers of dominance and submission as played out in sex actually capture a lot of of the politics of life: we are both in the act partially because of stereotypes because we both use the race terms to heighten the sexual charge. "Give me that big black cock" "Let me fuck that white faggot pussy" "You nigga, you are hear at my bidding" "You white trash, you have to pay me to get some of this dick. What would all your white corporate friends and co-workers thing now if they saw you on your knees sucking on my black dick, being a total pussy to a working class black man". Are there unhealthy self-esteem issues. Duh, yes on both sides! But man this is great therapy! I do not believe those who say sex is just sex and fantasy just fantasy and politics is different. The stereotypes and the politics follow us into the bedroom and crystalize a lot of the power dynamics that are taking place outside. By the way, I can imagine a lot of Nazi-Jew fuckfests that must have taken place DURING the Holocost, though I have never seen or read any such thing- I cannot imagine that the current political environment would allow such a thing ever to be discussed. Hierarchy, power and punishment will always be erotically charged. blu

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Guest Fin Fang Foom

>My greatest fantasy (as a small

>framed blond male) is to

>have 5 or 6 blatinos

>rape me in a public

>space. I sought often through

>the 90s to have this

>occur by going to neighborhoods

>where I knew I did

>not belong and going to

>Central Park at obscene hours

>of the nite. Camille Paglia

>had written sometime back in

>the 90s about how gay

>men risk death for sex

>and when I read that

>I said amen sister, you

>speak the truth about my

>life. So why is this

>for me. This is highly

>reductive psychology and does not

>explain everything but it goes

>part way. Blatino working class

>men for me as archetypes

>represent hypermasculinity in a way

>that the "prissy" and "near

>prissy" white men of my

>office (me included) lack. Hence

>while I have economic strength,

>these streetlife blatinos have natures

>strength; the strength of the

>streets; the strength of picking

>a fight and confronting another

>man mano a mano. In

>their strength, is also revealed

>my weakness. A weakness for

>which I must be punished

>by my masculine older brother:

>stop being such a faggot

>bitch says my blatino brother

>and I must obey. The

>policitics is critical to the

>fantasy so too I believe

>the blatino men who fuck

>me also see me as

>the prissy white male with

>the money on whom they

>can take revenge for all

>their economic suffering. I know,

>b/c I on occassion I

>have seen the frenzy in

>a couple of these guys

>eyes that they are also

>fucking me in anger and

>to degrade my superior economic

>and protected postion and in

>those situations the sex is

>unbeleivably charged. The shifting powers

>of dominance and submission as

>played out in sex actually

>capture a lot of of

>the politics of life: we

>are both in the act

>partially because of stereotypes because

>we both use the race

>terms to heighten the sexual

>charge. "Give me that big

>black cock" "Let me fuck

>that white faggot pussy" "You

>nigga, you are hear at

>my bidding" "You white trash,

>you have to pay me

>to get some of this

>dick. What would all your

>white corporate friends and co-workers

>thing now if they saw

>you on your knees sucking

>on my black dick, being

>a total pussy to a

>working class black man". Are

>there unhealthy self-esteem issues. Duh,

>yes on both sides! But

>man this is great therapy!

>I do not believe those

>who say sex is just

>sex and fantasy just fantasy

>and politics is different. The

>stereotypes and the politics follow

>us into the bedroom and

>crystalize a lot of the

>power dynamics that are taking

>place outside. By the way,

>I can imagine a lot

>of Nazi-Jew fuckfests that must

>have taken place DURING the

>Holocost, though I have never

>seen or read any such

>thing- I cannot imagine that

>the current political environment would

>allow such a thing ever

>to be discussed. Hierarchy, power

>and punishment will always be

>erotically charged. blu

 

 

All THAT just for a 7 second muscle contraction?!?

 

Good for you blu, but you've worn me out.

 

Exhausted,

 

FFF

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>By the way,

>I can imagine a lot

>of Nazi-Jew fuckfests that must

>have taken place DURING the

>Holocost, though I have never

>seen or read any such

>thing-

 

Where were you raised? In the third grade we saw copies of the films that the Allies seized from the German archives of the Nazi/Ashkenazi gang bangs.

 

Later.

 

PS. I think you can also download them from the Thugcam website.

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Guest jizzdepapi

this is interesting and disturbing food for thought. in my mind, murder is never erotically charged so nazi uniforms, and for that matter, police uniforms, have never done much for me though the "clinginess" of a tight polyester suit on a hunky italian cop sometimes does.

 

i am still ruminatively (and pic-less) yours

jizz

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