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Anybody in the legal profession able to explain sentencing delays?


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I just read in today's New York Times that "R. Kelly is set to be sentenced at 10 a.m. on May 4 by the same federal judge who oversaw his racketeering and sex trafficking trial in Brooklyn." Is it just me, or does it seem preposterous to anyone else here that it takes the judge more than 6 months to come down with a sentence? What has he been doing this whole time? How long does it take to look up sentencing guidelines? All of this dilly-dallying seems completely unnecessary to me, unless I'm missing something. Or am I missing something? I hope the dude is at least kept behind bars in the meantime...

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2 hours ago, Unicorn said:

I just read in today's New York Times that "R. Kelly is set to be sentenced at 10 a.m. on May 4 by the same federal judge who oversaw his racketeering and sex trafficking trial in Brooklyn." Is it just me, or does it seem preposterous to anyone else here that it takes the judge more than 6 months to come down with a sentence? What has he been doing this whole time? How long does it take to look up sentencing guidelines? All of this dilly-dallying seems completely unnecessary to me, unless I'm missing something. Or am I missing something? I hope the dude is at least kept behind bars in the meantime...

The dude? Do you mean the kind hearted judge or R  Kelly.

Maybe R Kelly signed to do a movie? Or some other important endeavor

Edited by WilliamM
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The whole Judicial System is just awful.   Avoid it like the plague.  As to R Kelly, it doesn't matter really.  He's not coming out of prison anyway.  Delays like this aren't unusual anyway, especially lately.  It keeps the lawyers busy, i.e., making money.

Edited by augustus
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Look at that POS Michael Avenatti.  A long time scheister who has committed frauds against people since he was in his early 20"s and the Judge gave him a 2 1/2 prison sentence when the guidelines called for a MINIMUM of 9 years in prison for what he had done.  This stupid/crooked Judge said Avenatti was sincere in his remorse at the sentencing hearing and hence the lenient sentence.  What a joke!!  

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10 hours ago, Unicorn said:

I just read in today's New York Times that "R. Kelly is set to be sentenced at 10 a.m. on May 4 by the same federal judge who oversaw his racketeering and sex trafficking trial in Brooklyn." Is it just me, or does it seem preposterous to anyone else here that it takes the judge more than 6 months to come down with a sentence? What has he been doing this whole time? How long does it take to look up sentencing guidelines? All of this dilly-dallying seems completely unnecessary to me, unless I'm missing something. Or am I missing something? I hope the dude is at least kept behind bars in the meantime...

You asked for a lawyer, and I’m not that.  And my experience relates more to civil matters and not criminal ones.  But, I’ll take a stab at it.  Technically, these are two different trials.  The first weighs the facts to determine if conviction standards are met.  The second weighs the unique circumstances (which in many cases may be subject to investigation or even psychiatric review) against the statutory sentencing guidelines.  I suspect, because they are two different events, that it’s a docketing challenge because of judicial backlog exacerbated by COVID. 

Edited by BnaC
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Yeah Federal sentencing takes place 4 to 6 months after the verdict. I don't know why really it takes that long. They have to do the presentencing interview, there will be a lot of letters to the judge for and against R. Kelly to read, and then it gives the lawyers time for any motions they want to file. But all this happens in state trials too and sentencing there takes 1 to 3 months after the verdict. 

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R. Kelly has been incarcerated going on 2 years now, so the delay doesn't affect that. He has other pending charges which this court would probably like to see resolved before his sentencing here. But I agree that it seems odd to wait so long. Justice delayed and all that.

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One reason for the delay is that Rule 32 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure generally require that a probation officer conduct a pre-sentence investigation and submit a pre-sentence report to the court, which the parties can respond/object to and the judge must consider when imposing a sentence. That requirement alone can prevent sentencing from happening for at least ~1.5 months after the defendant pleads/is found guilty. 

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5 hours ago, thedanNYC said:

One reason for the delay is that Rule 32 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure generally require that a probation officer conduct a pre-sentence investigation and submit a pre-sentence report to the court, which the parties can respond/object to and the judge must consider when imposing a sentence. That requirement alone can prevent sentencing from happening for at least ~1.5 months after the defendant pleads/is found guilty. 

Fair enough, but 6.5 months?

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11 hours ago, thedanNYC said:

One reason for the delay is that Rule 32 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure generally require that a probation officer conduct a pre-sentence investigation and submit a pre-sentence report to the court, which the parties can respond/object to and the judge must consider when imposing a sentence. That requirement alone can prevent sentencing from happening for at least ~1.5 months after the defendant pleads/is found guilty. 

As a former Probation Officer, my first gig in that field was to write PSI’s - and it takes a considerable amount of time to gather all the facts, get approvals, along with a shit-ton of delays - it can routinely delay sentencing by a couple of months or more - then add a pandemic, ungodly dockets, turn-over among prosecutors and public defenders, etc.  yeah, it’s a mess.

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On 9/28/2021 at 3:19 PM, Unicorn said:

Fair enough, but 6.5 months?

It does seem a rather long delay. But those awaiting their day in court for participation in the January 6 Capitol riot have already waited longer than that for their time in the  dock. As regards Mr. Kelly, my only take is that although you have a right to a speedy trial, you have no such right to a speedy sentence.

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7 hours ago, wsc said:

It does seem a rather long delay. But those awaiting their day in court for participation in the January 6 Capitol riot have already waited longer than that for their time in the  dock. As regards Mr. Kelly, my only take is that although you have a right to a speedy trial, you have no such right to a speedy sentence.

I'd think sentencing is part of the trial. Be that as it may, I thought that most of the time delays in getting criminal trials going was at the request of defense counsel needing more time to prepare. I thought most defendants gladly waive their rights to a speedy trial. Or am I wrong about that? 

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8 hours ago, Unicorn said:

I'd think sentencing is part of the trial. Be that as it may, I thought that most of the time delays in getting criminal trials going was at the request of defense counsel needing more time to prepare. I thought most defendants gladly waive their rights to a speedy trial. Or am I wrong about that? 

You're probably right about the defense always wanting more time and making motions for a continuance; prosecutors seem more eager to get on with it. For a defendant, however, that might depend on bail status; out on bail, take as long as you like, but denied bail, get this over with now! Also, the "speedy" part of speedy trial got stretched considerably by conditions in the pandemic, with court systems shutting down just about everywhere. FWIW.

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23 hours ago, TruthBTold said:

I have not been keeping up with the Kelly trial(s) so I do not know how many victim(s) there are.  However don't the victims have the opportunity to speak to the court on the record so he can use that statement when making his sentencing decision.  I am not sure if that has been done.

No reason for these statements to go on for more than 15 minutes each. That whole process shouldn't take longer than 2 days. 

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1 hour ago, Unicorn said:

No reason for these statements to go on for more than 15 minutes each. That whole process shouldn't take longer than 2 days. 

I don't think you have ever been part of a quite complicated court case, Mr Kelly will have numerous people, including clergy, testifying that is a gentle soul, salt of the earth man

Edited by WilliamM
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21 minutes ago, WilliamM said:

I don't think you have ever been part of a quite complicated court case, Mr Kelly will have numerous people, including clergy, testifying that is a gentle soul, salt of the earth man

Yes, we all know about what good character references those clergymen can be....

Father GIving A Hug To A Kid - Cartoon Priest Monk Vector Illustration  Royalty Free Cliparts, Vectors, And Stock Illustration. Image 127441440.

Ex-Catholic priest who pleaded guilty to abusing minors is hit with lawsuit  alleging he molested two brothers - Los Angeles Times

Emojipedia Sick Emoji Puking Barfing Green Vomit | Citypng

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On 10/4/2021 at 3:16 PM, WilliamM said:

There's a bad apple now and then, of course. But few and far between certainly not as many as you seem to believe 

 

A bad apple now and then? Did you just wake up after a 40-year sleep? 😲

US Patent Office and Rip Van Winkle | Quantum Bayesian Networks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sex_abuse_cases_in_the_United_States

"The John Jay report indicated that some 11,000 allegations had been made against 4,392 priests in the USA."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/religion/nearly-1-700-priests-clergy-accused-sex-abuse-are-unsupervised-n1062396

🤮

Edited by Unicorn
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13 hours ago, Unicorn said:

A bad apple now and then? Did you just wake up after a 40-year sleep? 😲

US Patent Office and Rip Van Winkle | Quantum Bayesian Networks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sex_abuse_cases_in_the_United_States

"The John Jay report indicated that some 11,000 allegations had been made against 4,392 priests in the USA."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/religion/nearly-1-700-priests-clergy-accused-sex-abuse-are-unsupervised-n1062396

🤮

By far, the Catholic Church still has a way to go on this subject.  So I agree. However, there are thousands upon thousands of wonderful clergy, male and female.

Try to be more hopeful, my friend.

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  • 2 months later...

Sentencing is always more important than guilt which is usually assumed today. It can be probation or many years prison depending on how the judge views things like priors, acceptance of guilt, use of government office, endangerment, conspiracy, etc. Sentencing guidelines themselves can be a wide choice once these guidelines are decided by the judge. Of course once a case becomes political all bets are off.  

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