PNP

[caliguy]

Mines a bit more on the practical. 48 hours of being up and fucking lots of other high guys = high std risk. Also the known reputation for stealing anything not nailed down.

 

If they have such little respect for their own bodies I guarantee they have none for you.

[Gymowner]

I've had escorts tell me the easiest session is a guy whacked out on drugs. Most of the time nothing happens.... they collect the money and leave. Hence the "I dont do pnp but you are more than welcome to". Schtick. Easy money!

[hypothetically]

..they'll forget to go to the gym, take PrEP, showing up for an appointment, paying bills, etc.

 

Yeaaa this can also be attributed to people who are just lazy and irresponsible as fuck.

[+ ProGay]

On my computer, there are 375 pages of escorts advertising on RentMen.

 

If I go to "preferences" and select "PNP," I get 80 pages of escorts, or over 20% of advertisers.

 

That's obviously a rough estimate, but much greater than I expected.

[+ Reisr30]

My personal preference aligns with the OP. Zero tolerance for drugs of any kind and will not meet with anyone who is open to it period. Again my own personal preference...

[marylander1940]

Yeaaa this can also be attributed to people who are just lazy and irresponsible as fuck.

 

Drugs like meth don't make folks more productive, actually they have the opposite effect.

[blightuponyou]

Of course there are serious political and sociological issues that need to be addressed in regards to drug use, but that seems pretty divorced from answering honestly to this particular question. I mean, am I supposed to give someone the benefit of the doubt that “PNP” is their marketing strategy? Or hire a drug addict on political grounds?

 

I had a toxic relationship with an ex who was a meth addict, and I lost two friends to drug overdoses last year. I believe strongly that if we did not stigmatize drug addicts that maybe they all could have gotten the help they needed.

 

However, there is a world of difference between supporting causes that protect and help them (or encouraging people in my personal life to seek help and offer my support for them) and willingly putting myself in an intimate situation that could potentially drag all of my trauma back up just to prove how liberal I am.

[hypothetically]

Drugs like meth don't make folks more productive, actually they have the opposite effect.

 

Have you ever done meth?

[marylander1940]

Have you ever done meth?

 

Hell no! Do you PNP with your clients?

[Rudynate]

Have you ever done meth?

 

 

I know the 70s are remote in time to men 30 or 40 years younger than I. Back then, everybody pnp'd. Not so much on meth, but MDA, a forerunner to ecstasy. I've done my share of MDA. I tried meth-not my cup of tea.

 

IN THEORY, I would still pnp. But even back then, it took me a couple days to recover from a party. Now, I imagine the recovery time would be more like a week. I would think twice about throwing away a week of my life for a night of substance-enhanced sex. The cost/benefit analysis doesn't make sense.

[tenderloin]

Nice way to stigmatize drugs users, specially remarkable when is coming from a stigmatized community itself.

 

To stigmatize means "describe or regard as worthy of disgrace or great disapproval." Do I disapprove of escorts who attempt to do their job and PNP at the same time? Yeah, and in this case I am ok with that. It is most certainly not bigotry. Is it bigotry to avoid an uber driver or a surgeon who boasts about his heavy drinking?

 

What is wrong with stigmatizing people whose behavior directly impacts their ability to provide the service for which they are being paid, or who may very well pose a danger to themselves or their clients? Do they need and deserve help and understanding? Yes! Are we clients, as a community, allowed to discuss whether or not to hire them when they openly advertise their proclivities? YES.

Edited July 30, 2019 by tenderloin

[+ Topseed]

Judge me all you want for my rigid “no PNP” stance.

 

My house, my rules.

[+ José Soplanucas]

To stigmatize means "describe or regard as worthy of disgrace or great disapproval." Do I disapprove of escorts who attempt to do their job and PNP at the same time? Yeah, in this case I am ok with that. It is most certainly not bigotry. Is it bigotry to avoid an uber driver or a surgeon who boasts about his heavy drinking?

 

What is wrong with stigmatizing people whose behavior directly impacts their ability to provide the service for which they are being paid, or who may very well pose a danger to themselves or their clients? Do they need and deserve help and understanding? Yes! Are we clients, as a community, allowed to discuss whether or not to hire them when they openly advertise their proclivities? YES.

 

Well, let's say that from now on I choose not to respond to posts full of ignorance and prejudice like yours. Is that bigotry? Keep looking in the dictionary.

Edited July 30, 2019 by latbear4blk

[marylander1940]

Well, let's say the from now on I choose not to respond to posts full of ignorance and prejudice like yours. Is that bigotry? Keep looking in the dictionary.

 

I don’t know how knowledgeable is @tenderloin but your post has some attitude

[Rudynate]

Judge me all you want for my rigid “no PNP” stance.

 

My house, my rules.

 

 

But isn't it possible to have that boundary without judging? Sort of like, "It just doesn't work for me?"

[+ ProGay]

"Party and Play" (abbreviated "PNP") is a North American term.

 

Europeans call it "chemsex" (chemicals+sex).

 

Methamphetamine is the drug most associated with these terms.

 

 

Dr. J. David Jentsch, UCLA, has conducted clinical research on methamphetamine use and irreversible changes in the brain:

 

"Methamphetamine dependence is currently a problem with no good medical treatments. When you say a disease like methamphetamine dependence is costly, it’s not just costing money, but lives, productivity, happiness, and joy. Its impact bleeds through families and society.”

 

-Professor J. David Jentsch, UCLA, 1999 Doctor of Philosophy (Neurobiology), Yale University; 1999 Master of Philosophy (Neurobiology), Yale University; 1992 Bachelor of Arts (Behavioral Biology), The Johns Hopkins University

[+ OliverSaks]

I do not meet with people anymore who I know are using stimulants. The unpredictability is not good for my peace of mind and it is not worth the risk to my safety. Learned this lesson early on when I was young and new, and it hasn’t failed me adhering to this since.

 

I worry about people using regularly, especially working men, but I can understand the many reasons people do. Methamphetamine is so strongly reinforcing that it just seems like something that is best not to try.

 

I’m a proponent of cannabis and consciousness-expanding substances, to be clear that this stance is not some “higher moral ground” anti drug rhetoric. What prolonged, high dose methamphetamine use does to the brain and the dopamine system is just not good.

 

@Kurtis Wolfe, I would suggest an organization like DanceSafe.org, which does harm reduction work nationally and includes fentanyl test strip distribution and drug testing at events. https://dancesafe.org/

(TEST YOUR DRUGS PEOPLE!)

There may also be other organizations work specifically for queer + trans POC using methamphetamine, which as @hypothetically mentioned is an epidemic especially around SWers (http://actupny.com/ has some focused harm reduction efforts)

 

#fuckEdBuck #EdBuckisASerialKiller

 

Finally, if any posters have questions or concerns about drug use, I’m happy to chat privately, off-camera.

[hypothetically]

Hell no! Do you PNP with your clients?

 

Okay then, so how would you know what meth does to one’s productivity? An observation: you always come out the woodwork most aggressively about drug use, and with great conviction. That’s awesome you’re passionate about it (I wholeheartedly mean that) but you also seem to know the LEAST about substance abuse, so you yelling “ITS BAD!” and random things you’ve heard is motivated by nothing other than ignorance and that is why these topics get messy instead of informative. Coming from someone who has dealt with substance abuse first hand (and second hand)...it is slightly offensive and you are doing more harm than good. You’re saying a lot but you’re actually saying nothing at all. If you’re going to be an advocate for sobriety, make it make sense. Do it right.

[+ keroscenefire]

I do not seek out PNP at all, but I was with an escort once who was on it while we were together and honestly didn't even notice it. We had a multi-hour session and I only realized when he started to use again as our night was ending and he was about to go out to try and meet with more clients. At first I was a little weirded out, but he explained that he has ADHD and it helps him both focus more on the client and to stay up all night so he can work longer. He explained that he had smoked meth just a few minutes before I met up with him, but I had no idea that he was on any substances at all except cigarettes.

 

I did try meth one time and know it's not something for me, but I am not going to judge others for their choices. It's probably likely that many of us clients have hired escorts who were on meth or other substances and we didn't even know it.

 

@Kurtis Wolfe ...I was going to suggest Gay Lesbian Medical Association, (http://www.glma.org/) an organization a good friend is a part of who help train and advocate health professionals to learn about LGTBQ medical issues. They did a big study on the health effects of meth on the LGTBQ population about a decade ago that is still used be medical professionals. But actually I think Dance Safe is probably a better organization that more directly helps the LGBTQ population. I'd go with them too.

[caliguy]

The cost/benefit analysis doesn't make sense.

That's about it right there. I'd love to go back to partying from time to time but the recovery downtime would be insane. I have no problem with fun and pleasure but not when the said activity is one part pleasure and 20 parts pain. For me Coke would be about 4 days and Meth about 2 weeks.

 

Meth causes your body to release massive amounts of dopamine. You naturally recycle the dopamine every single day. Not with meth though. It gets all used up and leaves you with no dopamine. Over time you lose your dopamine producing neurons as your brain tries to deal with the damage. That's why the length of time gets longer and longer to recover from leaving you in a long term depression. Many recovering addicts need anti-depressants.

Edited July 30, 2019 by caliguy

[Epigonos]

I'm just a bit tired of this topic. I taught high school for over thirty five years and was judgemental every day of those thirty five years. Furthermore I DO NOT hire escort who list PNP as something they are into. Yes I am a judgemental person and if that makes me an ignorant bigot -- so be it.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Epigonos

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

I'm just a bit tired of this topic. I taught high school for over thirty five years and was judgemental every day of those thirty five years. Yes I am a judgemental person and if that makes me an ignorant bigot -- so be it.

 

 

 

[+ José Soplanucas]

[+ Pensant]

Over the years, I’ve only encountered one provider on meth. Another cute one was on a cocktail of anti-depressant and anxiety-management scrips, but performed well although a bit dazed. I’ve been noticing a trend of younger escorts who don’t even drink.

 

Are poppers considered PNP?

[Rudynate]

Over the years, I’ve only encountered one provider on meth. Another cute one was on a cocktail of anti-depressant and anxiety-management scrips, but performed well although a bit dazed. I’ve been noticing a trend of younger escorts who don’t even drink.

 

Are poppers considered PNP?

 

Some would consider them PNP, others not. To me, PNP is hard drugs - meth, ecstacy, K, G - that sort of thing.