Fred Phelps has really lost his marbles...

[+ Tom Isern]

April 17, 2006

Outrage at Funeral Protests Pushes Lawmakers to Act

By LIZETTE ALVAREZ

 

NASHVILLE, April 11 — As dozens of mourners streamed solemnly into church to bury Cpl. David A. Bass, a fresh-faced 20-year-old marine who was killed in Iraq on April 2, a small clutch of protesters stood across the street on Tuesday, celebrating his violent death.

 

"Thank God for Dead Soldiers," read one of their placards. "Thank God for I.E.D.'s," read another, a reference to the bombs used to kill service members in the war. To drive home their point — that God is killing soldiers to punish America for condoning homosexuality — members of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan., a tiny fundamentalist splinter group, kicked around an American flag and shouted, if someone approached, that the dead soldiers were rotting in hell.

 

Since last summer, a Westboro contingent, numbering 6 to 20 people, has been showing up at the funerals of soldiers with their telltale placards, chants and tattered American flags. The protests, viewed by many as cruel and unpatriotic, have set off a wave of grass-roots outrage and a flurry of laws seeking to restrict demonstrations at funerals and burials.

 

"Repugnant, outrageous, despicable, do not adequately describe what I feel they do to these families," said Representative Steve Buyer, an Indiana Republican who is a co-sponsor of a Congressional bill to regulate demonstrations at federal cemeteries. "They have a right to freedom of speech. But someone also has a right to bury a loved one in peace."

 

In the past few months, nine states, including Oklahoma, Wisconsin and Indiana, have approved laws that restrict demonstrations at a funeral or burial. In addition, 23 state legislatures are getting ready to vote on similar bills, and Congress, which has received thousands of e-mail messages on the issue, expects to take up legislation in May dealing with demonstrations at federal cemeteries.

 

"I haven't seen something like this," said David L. Hudson Jr., research attorney for the First Amendment Center, referring to the number of state legislatures reacting to the protests. "It's just amazing. It's an emotional issue and not something that is going to get a lot of political opposition."

 

Most of the state bills and laws have been worded carefully to try to avoid concerns over the First Amendment, which guarantees freedom of speech. The laws typically seek to keep demonstrators at a funeral or cemetery 100 to 500 feet from the entrance, depending on the state, and to limit the protests to one hour before and one hour after the funeral.

 

A few states, including Wisconsin, also seek to bar people from displaying "any visual image that conveys fighting words" within several hundred feet or during the hours of the funeral. The laws or bills do not try to prevent protesters from speaking out.

 

Constitutional experts say there is some precedent for these kinds of laws. One case in particular, which sought to keep anti-abortion picketers away from a private home, was upheld by the Supreme Court in 1988.

 

"A funeral home seems high on the list of places where people legitimately could be or should be protected from unwanted messages," said Michael C. Dorf, a constitutional law professor at Columbia University Law School.

 

The Westboro Baptist Church, led by the Rev. Fred Phelps, is not affiliated with the mainstream Baptist church. It first gained publicity when it picketed the funeral of Matthew Shepard, a gay man who was beaten to death in 1998 in Wyoming.

 

Over the past decade, the church, which consists almost entirely of 75 of Mr. Phelps's relatives, made its name by demonstrating outside businesses, disaster zones and the funerals of gay people. Late last year, though, it changed tactics and members began showing up at the funerals of troops killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks hate groups, has put it on its watch list.

 

Embracing a literal translation of the Bible, the church members believe that God strikes down the wicked, chief among them gay men and lesbians and people who fail to strongly condemn homosexuality. God is killing soldiers, they say, because of America's unwillingness to condemn gay people and their lifestyles.

 

Standing on the roadside outside Corporal Bass's funeral here under a strikingly blue sky, the six protesters, who had flown from Topeka, shook their placards as cars drove past or pulled into the funeral. The 80-year-old wife of Mr. Phelps, slightly stooped but spry and wearing her running shoes, carried a sign that read "Tennessee Taliban." She is often given the task of driving the pickup trucks that ferry church members, a stack of pillows propping her view over the dashboard.

 

Next to her stood a cluster of Mr. Phelps's great-grandnephews and great-grandnieces, smiling teenagers with sunglasses, digital cameras and cellphones dangling from their pockets and wrists. They carried their own signs, among them, "You're Going to Hell."

 

Careful not to trespass on private property, the group stood a distance down the hill from the Woodmont Hills Church of Christ. Police cars parked nearby, keeping watch, but mostly making sure no one attacked the protesters.

 

"God is punishing this nation with a grievous, smiting blow, killing our children, sending them home dead, to help you connect the dots," said Shirley Roper-Phelps, the spokeswoman for the group and one of Mr. Phelps's daughters. "This is a nation that has forgotten God and leads a filthy manner of life."

 

At the entrance of the church, Jonathan Anstey, 21, one of Corporal Bass's best friends, frowned as he watched the protesters from a distance. Corporal Bass, who joined the Marine Corps after high school, died with six other service members when his 7-ton truck rolled over in a flash flood in Iraq. His family was reeling from grief, Mr. Anstey said.

 

"It's hurtful and it's taking a lot of willpower not to go down there and stomp their heads in," Mr. Anstey said. "But I know that David is looking down and seeing me, and he would not want to see that."

 

Disturbed by the protests, a small group of motorcycle riders, some of them Vietnam War veterans, banded together in October to form the Patriot Guard Riders. They now have 22,000 members. Their aim is to form a human shield in front of the protesters so that mourners cannot see them, and when necessary, rev their engines to drown out the shouts of the Westboro group.

 

The Bass family, desiring a low-key funeral, asked the motorcycle group not to attend.

 

"It's kind of like, we didn't do it right in the '70s," said Kurt Mayer, the group's spokesman, referring to the treatment of Vietnam veterans. "This is something that America needs to do, step up and do the right thing."

 

Hundreds of well-wishers have written e-mail messages to members of the motorcycle group, thanking them for their presence at the funerals. State legislatures, too, are reacting swiftly to the protests, and the Westboro group has mostly steered clear of states that have already enacted laws. While Corporal Bass's family was getting ready to bury him, the Tennessee House was preparing to debate a bill making it illegal for protesters to stand within 500 feet of a funeral, burial or memorial service.

 

The House joined the Senate in approving it unanimously on Thursday, and the bill now awaits the signature of the governor.

 

"When you have someone who has given the ultimate sacrifice for their country, with a community and the family grieving, I just don't feel it's the appropriate time to be protesting," said State Representative Curtis Johnson, a Republican who was a co-sponsor of the bill.

 

Ms. Roper-Phelps said the group was now contemplating how best to challenge the newly passed laws. "This hypocritical nation runs around the world touting our freedoms and is now prepared to dismantle the First Amendment," she said. "A piece of me wants to say that is exactly what you deserve."

[+ Axiom2001]

Although I am a pacifist; I have always abhorred Phelps and others of his ilk and hope they will get their due when they die. I first became aware of this acute hypocrite and sicko when he and his followers protested vehemently outside of Matthew Shephard's funeral service a few years back and at Gwen A's-- the young transsexual who was viciously murdered in the Bay Area of California two or three years ago!

 

I hope for Phelps and his followers: "What goes around comes around!"

[Guest Dan]

When I read about those assholes not only do I get pissed, but very sad. All that wasted time and money spent when they could be feeing the hungry. Trite, but I think that if there's a hell, these a-holes will get there and be told "this is for all the children that you could have helped instead of aggravating mourners." Incidentally, these dickwads obviously aren't Jews - we're commanded to support the bereaved, not give them more tsuris. (As a film class teacher of mine used to say "that's Texan for trouble.")

 

Dan Dare

http://www.geocities.com/dandare_laca/DanDare4Hire.html

[OneFinger]

"Fred Phelps has really lost his marbles..."

 

Sorry, Tom, but this is where you and I disagree. I don't believe Phelps ever had any marbles to lose. There are too many rocks upstairs and I doubt there was any room for even marbles. }(

 

Seriously, I was also really pissed off with his actions during the Shepard incident. Unfortunately, he seems to have become even more active and bitter since his days in Wyoming.

 

I firmly believe in freedom of speech. But, I also believe in holding someone responsible for the results of their speech. IMHO, his actions are less religously-based and much more political. I'd support an IRS investigation to look at revocation of his church-related tax exempt status.

 

If he really wants free speech then he should pay his fair tax for that right.

[Guest zipperzone]

Freedom of speech be damned........

 

I really can't understand what the problem is - hasn't anyone heard of a Saturday Night Special?

[Houston Bonfires]

Dick Cheney will fight to the death for your right to own and use a Saturday Night Special. How dare you...oh yeah anyone want to go huntin?

 

HB

[+ glutes]

Fuck Phelps!

 

 

 

JPost.com » Jewish World » Jewish News » Article

Aug 12, 2009 0:23 | Updated Aug 12, 2009 5:56

Extremist Christians: 'God hates Jews'

By E.B. SOLOMONT, JPOST CORRESPONDENT IN NEW YORK

Westboro Baptist Church, Jewish Historical Society, Drisha Institute

 

NEW YORK - Members of the extremist Westboro Baptist Church, known for its anti-gay and anti-Semitic rhetoric, protested in front of several Jewish institutions in New York on Tuesday.

 

A handful of protestors from the Kansas-based church turned out, toting signs that read "God Hates Jews" and "God Hates Obama."

 

With plans to protest in front of the Jewish Historical Society, Drisha Institute, and others, they arrived mid-morning at Temple Shearith Israel on the Upper West Side. From there, they went to the Jewish Community Center in Manhattan, the site of another protest by Westboro members around two weeks ago.

 

In an email to the community, JCC Executive Director Rabbi Joy Levitt urged visitors to calmly enter the building to avoid incident. Citing the JCC's beefed up security, she said protecting members and visitors was the center's primary goal.

 

"Our communication remains the same," she wrote. "The JCC in Manhattan does not welcome this group's message or actions in any way.

 

"Our best and only response is to conduct business as usual," she said.

 

"They're definitely, unequivocally anti-Semitic and they always have been," said the Anti-Defamation League's director of civil rights Deborah Lauter.

 

Recently, "They have ramped up their protest in front of Jewish institutions," she said.

 

At the JCC, several community members arrived early Tuesday to stand in opposition to the protest.

 

"As a Jew, as a community member, as someone who highly values diversity and as a human, I felt it was important to come to show support" for the JCC, an organization "that is so inclusive," said Ina Gail Goldberg.

 

Goldberg said she values freedom of speech, but opposes those who are missionaries. "Don't tell me what I think is wrong," she said.

 

But other community members said the JCC was taking the wrong approach in declining to engage with the protestors. Bob Lamm, who said he has lived on the Upper West Side his entire life, said the "business as usual" strategy was "shameful."

 

"I'm here to stand up against bigotry, anti-Semitism, homophobia, against any other form of bigotry," he said. "I think it's essential that Jews stand up against them."

[MsGuy]

Did the JDL disband or something?

[+ purplekow]

The Jewish Defense League is still around after some internal political strife in the middle of this decade. I am not sure they wish to raise their profile by confronting this group. It would like be an explosive situation which would not likely assist in building a positive view of the group. Many consider the JDL a terrorist organization and I believe they have a slightly more moderate leadership now and there is some desire to change that image while advancing their cause. Shalom

[Guest ncm2169]

Where's that slimey Rabbi Schmuley Boteach in all of this?

 

I thought he'd perfected the art of sticking his fat pious face in front of the cameras, ala Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. :eek:

[+ purplekow]

Rabbi Schmuley Boteach is a main stream Rabbi and celebrity. Politics is not his main focus. He is the Dr. Phil of Rabbis.

[Guest ncm2169]

Rabbi Schmuley Boteach is a main stream Rabbi and celebrity. Politics is not his main focus. He is the Dr. Phil of Rabbis.

 

Nice try, PK, but 10 years ago, I watched that flatulent bastard parade over every TV show he could make an excuse to appear on, slinging whatever right wing crazy shit he thought would stick.

 

Boteach, just like Sharpton, is out to make a buck by sticking his face anywhere and everywhere he smells a dime to be had.

 

Call that "celebrity" if you like. I call it disgusting.

[MsGuy]

PK, your post led me to goggle JDL. I had forgotten all that unpleasant stuff and mentally reverted to my initial impression of JDL as a bunch of hot tempered tough guy types. Didn't even remember about Kahane. Sometimes I wish my brain weren't so adept at supressing information I would rather not think about. I'm in your debt. Aleichem shalom.

[+ purplekow]

I must say that I know nothing of Rabbi Boteach's politics in the 1990's and have only been aware of him since about 2000 or so when he wrote Kosher Sex. Not having read the book , it is possible that is is indeed right wing crazy shit as you suggest, but the title had me fooled. And on Oprah, he pretty much looks like a rabbi talking about peace and love and understanding as a way to get through the problems we all face in life. As to the status of his digestive tract, I go by the old whoever smelt it dealt it philosophy.

[Guest ncm2169]

< Aleichem shalom

 

Dyslexia, anyone??

[MsGuy]

I don't know squat about Boteach but I would think having a show on "Opra And Friends" XM network is enough to qualify him as the "Dr. Phil of rabbis."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shmuley_Boteach

[MsGuy]

< Aleichem shalom

Dyslexia, anyone??

 

Well, I thought about going with "salaam aleichem" but, considering the context, decided against it.

 

Dyslexia? :o What am I missing?

[+ purplekow]

Well, I thought about going with "salaam aleichem" but, considering the context, decided against it.

 

Dyslexia? :o What am I missing?

At this hour, a few hours sleep.

[MsGuy]

Guys, please stop this foolishness and go read Daddy's thread in the political forum. Something serious has happened.

[+ glutes]

May a bolt of lightening descend and smite them all!

 

The Westboro Baptist Church took to an iPhone when they heard about Steve Jobs’ death Wednesday night, sending out a message saying the Apple founder would be going to hell and calling for a protest of his funeral.

“Westboro will picket his funeral. He had a huge platform; gave God no glory and taught sin,” wrote Margie Phelps, daughter of the church’s founder.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/10/westboro-church-uses-iphone-to-announce-steve-jobs-funeral-protest/

[josephga]

Fred Phelps always looked like rev kane too me lol

[video=youtube;uF9JKjYVXb8]

[leigh.bess.toad]

The Westboro Baptist Church took to an iPhone when they heard about Steve Jobs’ death Wednesday night, sending out a message saying the Apple founder would be going to hell and calling for a protest of his funeral.

“Westboro will picket his funeral. He had a huge platform; gave God no glory and taught sin,” wrote Margie Phelps, daughter of the church’s founder.

 

 

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/10/westboro-church-uses-iphone-to-announce-steve-jobs-funeral-protest/

 

Just goes to prove the old line "You can't fix stupid". I would think a counter-protest would be in order anywhere these losers show up. Not just any old protest. Gay and lesbians making out right in front of them. The mental apoplexy it would cause might cause their one or two remaining neurons to explode.

[+ deej]

Just goes to prove the old line "You can't fix stupid". I would think a counter-protest would be in order anywhere these losers show up. Not just any old protest. Gay and lesbians making out right in front of them. The mental apoplexy it would cause might cause their one or two remaining neurons to explode.

 

That, and more, has been done.

 

Crowds have chanted, kissed, yelled ...

 

I remember seeing a small group holding "God Hates Fags" signs every year along the Pride Parade route in Chicago. They got mooned a lot from the floats, but other than that the best reaction (and the one they mostly got) was ignoring them.

 

The most effective counter protests so far have been the Patriot Guard. They're Harley riders who show up at military funerals where WBC plans a protest. They sit at attention on their (running) Harleys forming a cordon of American flags blocking all views of the WBC protest signs. When the WBC starts chanting, the riders gun their engines to cover the chanting. Some Guard riders travel hundreds of miles to participate.

 

Confronting WBC does no good. They WANT the publicity!

[justaguy]

I vote for ignoring them. They seem to live for the media coverage their hateful filth generates. As for the title of this thread, you can't lose something you never had and these folks never had any marbles to begin with.

[bostonman]

I remember seeing a small group holding "God Hates Fags" signs every year along the Pride Parade route in Chicago. They got mooned a lot from the floats, but other than that the best reaction (and the one they mostly got) was ignoring them.

 

Something I've never understood about "God Hates Fags" --

 

Now - I'm not an extremely religious person, though I'm proud of my Jewish heritage and do have my beliefs. But religion to me in general has always been a fascinating topic. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that ANYWHERE in Judeo-Christianity (or most likely any other religions, for that matter) does it say that God "hates" ANYONE. Rather, "slow to anger and abounding in love" is one of the descriptions of God in the Bible, is it not?

 

So, it has never made sense to me that these idiots can go around saying "God hates." Where do they get this info? Certainly not from Leviticus or any of the other usual sources that are used to "condemn" homosexuality. One can argue that God has said not to do it, you can argue that it's a sin, and all of that - but that's not hate. Hate is a different thing altogether. And I venture to say that even "God Hates Phelps" is incorrect, unfortunately. ;-)