Humans and life in general...

[+ pepa_e_mango]

what is our purpose in the universe? Do we even have one or are we just an accident of circumstance?

Thoughts?

[+ Avalon]

This is such a good question! I'm looking forward to seeing what others say. I think that we are alone in the universe. I once read that the requirements for life to evolve on earth were unique to make it almost impossible to occur elsewhere in the Universe., The right kind of Sun, The right size of planet and distance from the Sun, The planet's environment. & etc.. Sorry I can't remember it all now.

 

People ask what came before the Big Bang. I say another Big Bang. It starts with the Big Bang, the Universe expands and reaches a certain point and then because of the Law of Gravity starts to recede. And the process begins all over again.

 

But scientists say that the Universe is still expanding. 15 billion years! But what if it continues to expand and breakdown and not recede? There might not be another Big Bang and this is it?

[+ OliverSaks]

“Man’s Search for Meaning” by Victor Frankl

 

Not sure I’ve come across a better explanation - very important book in my life (if not the most important book I’ve had the pleasure of reading)

 

The audiobook is a breeze, highly recommend it

[+ Avalon]

“Man’s Search for Meaning” by Victor Frankl

 

Not sure I’ve come across a better explanation - very important book in my life (if not the most important book I’ve had the pleasure of reading)

 

The audiobook is a breeze, highly recommend it

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man%27s_Search_for_Meaning

[+ sync]

As I perceive it from the Biblical sense, at one time the Deity was going to obliterate all life from the Earth, but decided against it. I see it as the Deity's only mistake, and it was a doozie.

[alkan]

This is such a good question! I'm looking forward to seeing what others say. I think that we are alone in the universe. I once read that the requirements for life to evolve on earth were unique to make it almost impossible to occur elsewhere in the Universe., The right kind of Sun, The right size of planet and distance from the Sun, The planet's environment. & etc.. Sorry I can't remember it all now.

 

People ask what came before the Big Bang. I say another Big Bang. It starts with the Big Bang, the Universe expands and reaches a certain point and then because of the Law of Gravity starts to recede. And the process begins all over again.

 

But scientists say that the Universe is still expanding. 15 billion years! But what if it continues to expand and breakdown and not recede? There might not be another Big Bang and this is it?

Perhaps saying we needed the right set of circumstances to develop life is the wrong way of looking at it. The kind of life form with which we are familiar developed from those particular circumstances. If the conditions are different, perhaps a different life form could occur. I think it is extremely unlikely that "we" are alone in the Universe, using the widest possible interpretation of "we". Or to put it another way, will we recognise the "others" when we meet them?

[+ Avalon]

Perhaps saying we needed the right set of circumstances to develop life is the wrong way of looking at it. The kind of life form with which we are familiar developed from those particular circumstances. If the conditions are different, perhaps a different life form could occur. I think it is extremely unlikely that "we" are alone in the Universe, using the widest possible interpretation of "we". Or to put it another way, will we recognise the "others" when we meet them?

 

Valid point.

[alkan]

As I perceive it from the Biblical sense, at one time the Deity was going to obliterate all life from the Earth, but decided against it. I see it as the Deity's only mistake, and it was a doozie.

Like @Avalon, I find the broad question very interesting. Can I ask you though, as you bring up the Bible, whether you count animals as a "life form"? Since God's anger was directed at Mankind, to consider destroying the animals for the sins of Man seems a little harsh. Of course one could argue that he owns his creation and can do what he wishes. But that means the sins of Man fall on his shoulders as he owns them as well. And, perhaps also we have to ask, if we are alone in this unimaginably vast (and getting vaster by the second) god-created Universe, how likely is it that it would have been created just for us. And if it was, how can we possibly make assumptions about the intentions and wishes of the mind that created it?

[Rudynate]

what is our purpose in the universe? Do we even have one or are we just an accident of circumstance?

Thoughts?

 

Humans seem to be wired to need meaning. The fact that we need to impose order on the universe doesn't mean that there is an inherent order to the universe. The Existentialists hold that the universe is random and meaningless. Any meaning is something that we made up. I can live with that - that there is no supplied meaning to life and that it's my job to find my own meaning in life. There are all kinds of groups and organizations that are willing to supply the lazy with canned meaning. There are those who are fine with providing their own meaning.

[+ sync]

Like @Avalon, I find the broad question very interesting. Can I ask you though, as you bring up the Bible, whether you count animals as a "life form"? Since God's anger was directed at Mankind, to consider destroying the animals for the sins of Man seems a little harsh. Of course one could argue that he owns his creation and can do what he wishes. But that means the sins of Man fall on his shoulders as he owns them as well. And, perhaps also we have to ask, if we are alone in this unimaginably vast (and getting vaster by the second) god-created Universe, how likely is it that it would have been created just for us. And if it was, how can we possibly make assumptions about the intentions and wishes of the mind that created it?

 

You make a very good point about the animals, and I considered them. In my, admittedly broad-stroke view, the savagery within the balance of nature in the animal kingdom eerily parallels human nature. Perhaps the Deity viewed us collectively as life on earth. As for us being alone in the universe and making assumptions about the intentions and wishes of the mind that created it, at the present time, assumptions are all that we have.

[+ Avalon]

Humans seem to be wired to need meaning. The fact that we need to impose order on the universe doesn't mean that there is an inherent order to the universe. The Existentialists hold that the universe is random and meaningless. Any meaning is something that we made up. I can live with that - that there is no supplied meaning to life and that it's my job to find my own meaning in life. There are all kinds of groups and organizations that are willing to supply the lazy with canned meaning. There are those who are fine with providing their own meaning.

 

I think there is Order in the Universe. There are Laws that govern how things work like gravity etc. Sorry, I'm not a science person. Einstein proved that one can not exceed the speed of light. & etc..

 

But we humans have to accept that we are not the center of the universe.

[+ José Soplanucas]

Humans seem to be wired to need meaning. The fact that we need to impose order on the universe doesn't mean that there is an inherent order to the universe. The Existentialists hold that the universe is random and meaningless. Any meaning is something that we made up. I can live with that - that there is no supplied meaning to life and that it's my job to find my own meaning in life. There are all kinds of groups and organizations that are willing to supply the lazy with canned meaning. There are those who are fine with providing their own meaning.

 

I agree with existentialism on he lack of trascendental meaning, but I disagree on he random origin of life. Now we know about natural selection.

[alkan]

I think there is Order in the Universe. There are Laws that govern how things work like gravity etc. Sorry, I'm not a science person. Einstein proved that one can not exceed the speed of light. & etc..

 

But we humans have to accept that we are not the center of the universe.

But the "Laws" did not come first. They are descriptive not proscriptive, and as our knowledge changes, the Laws can be adapted and rewritten, as with the speed of light statement.

[+ Avalon]

But the "Laws" did not come first. They are descriptive not proscriptive, and as our knowledge changes, the Laws can be adapted and rewritten, as with the speed of light statement.

 

Are you saying that it might be possible to exceed the speed of light?

[alkan]

Are you saying that it might be possible to exceed the speed of light?

Particle physics indicates that this is indeed so, eg tachyons. (But semantically, you could say that light in a vacuum travels faster than the speed of light in water!)

[+ Avalon]

Particle physics indicates that this is indeed so, eg tachyons. (But semantically, you could say that light in a vacuum travels faster than the speed of light in water!)

 

Thanks! As I've said I'm not a science person.

[Rudynate]

I agree with existentialism on he lack of trascendental meaning, but I disagree on he random origin of life. Now we know about natural selection.

 

Natural selection is a random process. It doesn't have a direction or goal. That's a problem with the way evolution is talked about when it's being taught in schools. Evolution/natural selection is not going in a particular direction. We can only see the direction ex post facto its going by looking how it got us to where we are now. We have no idea where it will take us from here. And because evolution is a mindless statistical process, evolution also has no idea where it is taking us.

[+ José Soplanucas]

Random does not have to do with a random direction but with not causality, I understand. Live did not happened in Earth randomly, but because the right combination of variables met.

I completely agree there is no direction, but there is a clear cause/effect process.

[Rudynate]

Random does not have to do with a random direction but with not causality, I understand. Live did not happened in Earth randomly, but because the right combination of variables met.

I completely agree there is no direction, but there is a clear cause/effect process.

 

Agree completely, but that combination of variables itself was probabalistic.

[+ José Soplanucas]

Agree completely, but that combination of variables itself was probabalistic.

 

Agree. The same probabilistic that says that life has also happened thousands of times in other places in the universe.

[instudiocity]

The Westminster Shorter Catechism:

Q. 1. What is the chief end of man?

A. Man’s chief end is to glorify God,[1] and to enjoy him forever.

 

https://reformed.org/documents/wsc/index.html?_top=https://reformed.org/documents/WSC_frames.html

[Rudynate]

Agree. The same probabilistic that says that life has also happened thousands of times in other places in the universe.

 

And the combination of variables didn't lead inevitably to the evolution of life, it favored it. Which means that the same combination of variables could occur on some distant planet in some distant galaxy and it might not lead to the evolution of life. The universe is so immense that it is likely that life has evolved elsewhere in the universe.

[Rudynate]

The Westminster Shorter Catechism:

Q. 1. What is the chief end of man?

A. Man’s chief end is to glorify God,[1] and to enjoy him forever.

 

https://reformed.org/documents/wsc/index.html?_top=https://reformed.org/documents/WSC_frames.html

 

There's nothing wrong with subscribing to canned meaning.

[beachboy]

Maybe we're here to find out why we're here.

[+ pepa_e_mango]

Interesting points raised by all. I don't look to religion for answers to these types of questions; it seems odd that an almighty being would create living organism for the sole purpose of venerating Him (or Her). Besides, who created that almighty being in the first place.

Anyhow; I also don't want to confuse purpose with meaning. The meaning of life is different for each person whilst our purpose is more mechanistic. If we are part of a system in which energy is conserved, we could have just as easily exist in any other form, maybe dispersed atoms floating about, and still serve the same purpose and fulfill the first law of thermo.