stevenkesslar

I think it's a horrible idea. I'd say just cash in the life insurance policy, get the money, and spend it, if that is your choice. That's the simple answer. Now here's the psychodrama answer. Maninsoma did an excellent job of summing up the practical considerations of why an escort might not like such an arrangement. As in, "Show me the money." I'd never agree to that kind of a proposal, for the reasons he said. If I were you, I'd be a little bit worried about both the intelligence and reliability of an escort that would agree to such an arrangement. At various points I had offers from clients to go into real estate together, including structuring the payment of fees around some sort of long-term commitment to own property together. Like: I'll loan you money, we'll own a place together, you can pay me back in services. I thought establishing those kinds of strings was generally a bad idea. The few times somebody offered to own property together, I said no. There is an exception to that rule, which is not the same but is in the ballpark of your idea, which I think proves my point. One client who I've known for over 15 years and who I still consider a friend did lend me significant amounts of money I used as down payments to purchase homes. The loans were repaid in services. As money was repaid, he'd lend me more money. So for a period of years I always owed him money, and in some years the amount was substantial enough that he asked for and I agreed to a lien on a property, in the event that I died. In that sense, it was no different than a "hard money" loan one might get - no pun intended - except there was no interest. With the benefit of hindsight, I think I can say honestly that his generosity had little impact on the financial outcome for me. In one case I bought a house in a declining market sooner than I should have, for more than I would have if I had been forced to wait. In another case, I was able to buy a house in an appreciating market quicker than I would have been able to otherwise. In the end, any pluses or minuses were marginal. But it was more "legit" than what you are proposing, in that I got real money now, not a promise. In theory, it was a bigger risk for him, in that I could have said, "Fuck you." But like I said, he also covered his ass by asking for a lien. The biggest problem with this arrangement is that I think it fosters resentment. I can't read minds, so I can only speak for myself. And what I'll say is nuanced. Part of the reason I accepted his offer - it was his idea, not mine - is that I knew by the point he offered it that he always liked having some hook in people, that made him the dominant one. So in a sense my calculation went like this: "I could use the money, and he'll feel like he owns a piece of me, and I can live with that." So I could argue it worked for about a decade. But I don't think that's an optimal way to construct trust, even among an escort and a client. He often took the opportunity to point out to me that I had somehow missed an opportunity to express my gratitude for how kind he was to me, and how grateful I should be for the way he provided unique opportunities for me. When I called him on this, he of course insisted he wasn't serious, and he was just teasing me. Again, I know him well enough to know this was his MO with everybody - family, friends, employees. But it didn't stop me from feeling like, "This guy is kind of an arrogant asshole." I can't read his mind, but I'm pretty sure that I was one of many people who he felt didn't properly appreciate all he had done for them. So I could actually argue this either way, emotionally. I could argue it made the relationship possible, because it gave him the sense of inequality and dominance I think he needed. Or I could argue it made the relationship impossible, because it gave him the sense of inequality and dominance I think he needed. Eventually I just paid him off, cleared the liens, and ended the "business" part of our relationship with a sense of relief. Part of the way I look back on my time as an escort is this. I have a sense of humility, gratitude, and grace that even though I am just a whore, I was able to touch certain people's lives in a meaningful way, that helped them to discover or express something about themselves. You were one of those people. I really enjoyed the days when I'd fly to NYC, then hop on one train at one train station and go see you, and then come back to NYC and hop on another train at another train station and go see a handsome and well built lawyer, who was younger, smarter, more successful, and probably more kind than me. His coming out story was interesting, and he just needed someone to hold his hand and make him feel confident as a Gay man. Within a few years he was married to an equally hot man, and he'd show me pictures of them in the slinkiest little speedos, until he just stopped hiring me. You and him were different people, but in both cases there was this sense of being able to touch people, both literally and emotionally, in a way that felt really meaningful. That was true whether that was about a loving man who was longing to get married, or a loving man who was looking to get over the pain of losing his spouse. My point is that with almost everyone I really got to know - you, this other guy, many of the the frequent members of this board - I have this sense of grace. I use the word grace intentionally, because grace refers to a blessing in life that is given freely. For me, emotionally, it flows from the fact that at its core there was something liberating about each relationship, and that it was reciprocal. I was having the time of my life. Using words like "grace" could of course just mean I believe my own bullshit. But I do feel that way. And since this is all very subjective, all that really matters about it is how the people in an intimate relationship feel. So that obviously says more about me than about you, PK. But it is meant to be a compliment of you, personally, because you did in fact make my life richer. And I don't mean it was about the money. Ironically, and perhaps sadly, one of the people who I feel that way about least is the person who did the most to look out for my financial well being. It didn't end badly, for either one of us. I guess I could say I got what I wanted out of the bargain. I'm not 100 % sure he felt the same way. I guess my advice if you do this is this. If you are going to build a relationship with all kinds of strings attached, you are going to have to work hard to make sure the other person in the relationship does not feel like there are all kinds of strings attached. For the reasons maninsoma said, I could see how something relating to being a life insurance policy beneficiary could create all kinds of doubts and questions about trust, and even flat out resentment. So, bottom line, if you want to do it, I'd say it would be far better to just cash in the policy and spend it, hire by hire, day by day. There are plenty of fish in the sea, after all. And I know how much you like using your pole. Why limit yourself, anyway?

I hope so. I'm going to violate the yes/no thing, but this isn't politics. I was at Dane Scott's last night, watching the DWTS final. We were both delighted to see what I believe is their first Gay champion, Adam Rippon, win. So another barrier has fallen. And yet one remains. Dane and I confessed to each other long ago that we share two secret fantasies: 1) we both hope someday we will lose our virginity and have sex with a boy, and 2) we both hope to be the first Gay celebrity escort on DWTS. Of course, we both realize we need a plan to do this. Because we'd have to figure out a way to become a celebrity first. My Plan A was simple: to have a love child with Guy Fawkes, which I believe would be sufficient to generate the celebrity and scandal I need. Sadly, Guy has rejected my every advance. He just isn't the type of guy that wants to settle down, let alone be a Daddy. I will be eternally grateful to PK for this thread, because he now gave me my Plan B to get on DWTS. There. I didn't go near politics. Just use your imagination. (And take some Pepto Bismol). I don't want a one of you fuckers to reply to this post and make it political. Because if you ruin my chances to be cast on DWTS, I will hate you all forever.

Yes. Only because he paid me to. Yes. But only if he pays me to. :eek: (Do I get a bonus question? If so, Yes, I am a whore.)

Please tell me that's a typo.

Of course! You can come whenever you want Oliver. Besides, even if I said no, I know you're a bad boy. You'd come anyway.

Excuse me? Need I remind you we are talking about Oliver? How intimate have you been with him? He would be the one requiring the lube job, I think.

No. Since I'm among friends, I assume I can be blunt. It's not about getting stuff that's yummy to the tummy. It's about getting rid of stuff that's a pain in the ass.

There's another issue. It was a one-off but I had an outcall in the Wharf one night and it was Chinese New Years or something, I honestly don't recall, and traffic was horrific. It would have been quicker to bike from my place at Dolores Park. I was late, and I kept in touch with the client and he had nothing other than me on his agenda for an one or two hour call so it worked out fine. But getting to his hotel in the Wharf due to some celebration was just a nightmare. So yeah, don't stay there. When I was looking to move to SF I actually asked clients for their thoughts re: where would be easiest and they said the same - the Wharf would be a negative in terms of access. There are some boutiquey hotels around the Castro/Dolores Park and I visited clients there, but I think they tend to be on the pricey side.

And it works the other way around as well - around Union Square is where you can access clients. I lived in SF for a decade so I had the advantage of being able to do in calls anytime, but my out calls with people visiting the city and staying in hotels were typically in hotels around Union Square. If you stay there it is also an easy Muni ride to get to the Castro or BART ride to other areas. Before living there I just stayed at whatever was offering good deals on Priceline around Union Square/Market Street. I've been with clients at the Marquis or Hilton I don't know how many times, on my dime or their's. There's no hotel I can recall that was bad either in terms of not having what I needed (a clean bed) and also not having issues with my visitors. Given the economy right now I'd guess the main issue is really price. It's not a cheap city to visit. So I'd just get the best deal you can get around Union Square.

Well that just sucks, actually. No offense intended, Oliver. But I was so looking forward to attending the funeral of you and Epigonos. It would make my life immeasurably easier. P.S. Note that I only insulted Oliver in English because I would never say something like andate a la mierda to Latbear4Blk or shit like that.

And here's the really fucked up thing. Everybody knows that last night Kevin toiled at his computer to make that chart. And everybody knows that I toiled at my computer to make a chart showing how I haven't cum for six months so that I can have a 3" cock. So as far as I'm concerned y'all ought to consider yourselves real fucking lucky to not be like Kevin or me.

Wow. That's fascinating. I never realized how much money an escort made had to do with what month it was. For me, hookups always seemed to do with how big my cock was. For example this chart shows the relationships between months of not cumming and size of my erect penis. So if I came once every month, my cock never got very big - about 1/2" erect - and nobody wanted me. But if I only came twice a year, I got super huge - like a full 3" (honest, I'm not exaggerating) - and everybody seemed to want me. Has anyone heard of an escort that didn't cum for like a whole year and maybe got even as big as like 4" or something?

Happy Birthday! And thanks for your passion on many subjects.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

Yup. Shit happens all the time.

Prince Harry asked not to invite Barack Obama to his wedding Harry has told aides he wants to invite Barack and Michelle Obama to his May 19 wedding. But civil servants reportedly fear that an invitation to the wedding of the year will infuriate Donald Trump, and heighten tensions between the White House and Britain. Mr Trump has not been invited to the wedding and it is thought he would be furious if Mr Obama met the Queen during his presidency before he did. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/prince-harry-asked-not-to-invite-barack-obama-to-his-wedding/news-story/070fb36e173a8456310fdd28b9b7745d

Based on my experience Kevin is probably right. There are all kinds of people at the margin, but the people who do this as a career do well, meaning make over $100,000 a year, and there are likely way more than 100 of them. Part of the issue is that if you are young, you may be using it to pay for college, save for a home, or make money while you pursue your goal to be a (fill in the blank: _ actor, _ musician, _ artist). It's not untypical for escorts to use whore money to care for family members. All of that of course weighs against savings, as it does for anyone else. Escorts who are relatively older and don't have to worry about college and who aren't spending a lot of time breaking into some other career probably have the easiest time making good incomes and raising the averages. My guess is they are also the ones most inclined to save. One very popular and "older" escort I knew who invested in real estate used this line: "My cock is my ATM. I use it to withdraw money I then buy homes with." I would never say that line, because it can sound crass. But it's no more crass than an engineer saying, "My brain is my ATM. I use it to work for Google and invest my paycheck in stocks." Many people consider it rude to talk about how much they make, especially in public forums like this. The sad part of it is we do all hear about it when an escort has a drug overdose, or dies of AIDS, or ends up in jail. That's true of famous actors and celebrities as well. Except the Meryl Streeps and Paul Newmans and others who have their heads together are way more visible than the comparable top end escorts. We may not know how much Meryl makes, but we know it's a lot. So my guess is that as an industry escorts get a worse rap than they deserve, just because you tend to hear about the problem children who don't save, and who make bad life choices. And Kevin's also right about the distribution. Until they figure out how to clone men, and personalities, escorting is very much a one man show. The skill set that produces better than average escorts has something to do with looks and body, but it also has to do with personality and entrepreneurial skills. That creates a big limit. Unlike Ray Kroc, who could franchise McDonalds, I never figured out how to franchise myself. So unless you take your whore money and figure out how to invest it in something else - like real estate - you can make a good income, but not a great one.

Happy Birthday! http://animated.name/uploads/posts/2016-08/1470067341_3.gif

I was thinking that too. Then I saw Bruno in that silly referee outfit last night, and it cured me of that idea. http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/12/18/article-1339515-0C7AF931000005DC-896_468x341.jpg And besides, Adam Rippon and his girly friend Mirai Nagasu are just too cute. She's just is not the fag hag type. So he's gonna have to take one for the team and turn Straight. That way they can fall in love.

That's obviously just because you only paid attention to the lower half of my body. The pubic hair would have of course provided a clue, but not when I was turned the other way. Okay, enough Gay talk. Back to Guy and pansexualism ..............

Yeah, right. And I'm Tinkerbell.

That's okay. I've been celebrating my 18th birthday for decades. You can have it any way you want. Including your birthday. So, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

Wow, Oliver. You think of everything. It even comes with a man bending down on his knees. You are truly the hostess with the mostest.

There is something particularly tragic and poignant about this one. A few years ago in Nuevo Vallarta at The Grande Luxxe (the gated community resort in Jalisco where Americans and Canadian feel safer) I ran into a waiter from Guadalajara who wanted to study film. That resort is a jobs magnet for a lot of aspirational Mexican employees, especially if they speak English and can get tip income. It's the best of all worlds. Live in your country, earn money like an American, and spend it at Mexico prices. The kid wanted to be a Director, and coming from Guadalajara he of course mentioned del Toro as a role model. In a movie, it could have been del Toro that was mistakenly abducted, tortured, and dissolved into acid. It would actually make a good movie script. Like I said, it's poignant and tragic that real life aspirational del Toros were murdered in the year when real life del Toro received global recognition and Oscars. There is something uniquely Mexican about all this, I suspect. And as an American I don't claim to understand what it is. I've lived with Mexican families, traveled all over Mexico, had Mexican fuck buddies and friends, and they are a sweet and loving and playful people. And then you get this shit. Somehow - like in every country - the best and worst elements of humanity seem to co-exist, right next to each other. So, since the words of del Toro were being quoted about this murder, I thought it would be interesting to quote these words of his, as well. They ring equally true, and seem to come equally from deep in his heart. Except these words express his pride in his Mexican heritage, and his nationalism. "Octavia Spencer is a true Del Toro fan, and when she found out that he wanted her to be in this movie, she said: “I would have been a potted plant had he asked me to.” And in fact, the night he won the Golden Globe, he was asked about his “extraordinary ability to look into the shadow side, into the darker side of human nature and fantasy and terror. But you also are a really joyful and loving person. So, how do you find that balance?” Del Toro’s great answer was: "I’m Mexican... No one loves life more than we do, in a way because we are so conscious about death,” referring to the Day of the Dead with its cempasúchil marigolds and altars. https://www.mexico.mx/en/articles/guillermo-del-toro-nominated-oscar

Actually, what I'd really like to check out are the Gay stripper bars in Guadalajara. https://www.ellgeebe.com/en/destinations/latin-america/mexico/guadalajara/nightlife https://www.ellgeebe.com/en/destinations/latin-america/mexico/guadalajara/nightlife/la-taberna-de-caudillos I asked BVB to go down there with me, and he said no. For some reason he's all freaked out about it. No se porque.