stevenkesslar

Translation: Good news: it's just a god damn emoji. Bad news: either way you figure it, it still basically leads to the collapse of civilization. :eek:

Which makes my point. Thank you, @Corporate Shill. When things like wisdom and intelligence and free will boil down to whether you have a choice of 5, 50, or 500 emojis, I think it's fair to say that the emojis in question are the symptom of the problem. They are certainly not the solution. This is a perfect illustration of the argument that social media is leading to, at best, dumbed-down democracy, and at worst digitally-regulated authoritarianism. What's up for grabs in this "testing" period, as far as I can tell, is whether there is any website to be had that contains any type of discussion or debate worth actually having. :oops: And that's me being a bit hysterical, I know. :eek: I assumed this website was offline until January. The reason I found out it was up is that last week I called someone after I got a call from a family member of @Traveler North informing me he had passed. The forum member I called informed me @tristanbaldwin had already posted a message here, thankfully. I think all of us would agree that type of information sharing is one very important community function this website has served, and will hopefully continue to serve. And we've all just shown we're adults who are perfectly capable of expressing genuine sadness at the loss of a dear member of our community, without needing a sad face emoji to do so. But while we are on the subject of death: "The collapse of our civilizations and the extinction of much of the natural world is on the horizon." You can take a statement like that, or leave it. It was just spoken by David Attenborough, narrator of Planet Earth, at the keynote to the UN conference on climate change in Poland. If you choose to leave such rubbish, one might rather appreciate having an emoji to communicate one's contempt for such a statement. So, for example, let's posit that there is - for sake of argumentation - someone I will refer to as "Individual 1." And let's say - just for the sake of argumentation - that "Individual 1" likes to tweet every morning. Said "Individual 1" might feel that a "fake news" emoji (o_Oo_Oo_O ???) communicates the appropriate level of contempt for stupid concerns about the future of civilization perfectly adequately. In our new era of digital authoritarianism, a new and proper "fake news" emoji might be all we actually need to survive and prosper. Hell, my guess is we could even all be perfect gentlemen, and simply agree that the "meh" emoji is perfectly adequate to express our common contempt for idiots like Attenborough who are concerned about the future of civilization. Then again, there is always the possibility that a few among us might prefer the idea of reading and sharing and debating hundreds or even thousands of pages of government and scientific reports that suggest that perhaps Attenborough actually has a point. Surely, no one in their right mind would think we can't get enough of that kind of reason. Right? Nobody would actually prefer dry reams of data when a lively "fake news" emoji will do, right? I mean, why would anybody actually fight passionately about data, or ideas, as if the collapse of civilizations was actually at stake? I mean, can't it all be adequately summed up like this: :mad:. Then can't we all just agree to move on to the next emoji? :) Because once you go down that rabbit hole, you find out very quickly that tweets and emojis and rants about "fake news" are not the solution to the problem. They offer no discernible advancement to civilization. One might even conclude that the kind of tweets and emojis and rants about "fake news" we experience daily from my figurative "Individual 1" are in fact part and parcel of the grave threats our civilization actually faces. Having a nice little pyramid on how to make an argument is all well and good. And if I were a school marm, I'd give extra points to any ambitious student who tried to make a well-documented argument using a nifty pyramid like that. But it still remains a good question as to whether just posting a nice little pyramid that explains the rules of logic and reason to a bunch of very smart people even begins to address the real problem. As recently as - hmmm, let's see, today! - we had a perfect example of what one might argue is the real problem. Somebody real, who I will again refer to as "Individual 1" - said that unless people accept his facts - which are widely refuted - and his way of doing things, he is going to shut the entire US government down. No, this is not a test. This is real. I'm not sure there is an emoji to communicate concern that you won't be getting your Social Security check this month. Or that you'd best not plan a trip to a national park anytime soon. It all feels rather bullying to me. Surely, there must be a "bully" emoji? So we might consider this: until we figure out a way to actually discuss and address the problem as it exists in the real world, and have civil and civilized discussions instead of digital authoritarianism and tweets and bullies, the choice of whether we have 5 or 50 or 500 emojis may have no real meaning. Surely that warrants a sad face, right? :( Then again, others will surely disagree. After all, what more choice do any of us really need? :D:eek::rolleyes::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Just saw this post, Basketballer. Hope you had a wonderful birthday. And thanks for sharing your thoughtful and moving posts with us. You often manage to give us a lift.

Exactly. This whole website set up inspires childish reaction, not thought. So sad! I'll stick with The Economist. It has no emojis, and thoughtful essays that go on for pages. I guess that makes it verbose. And it has that stupid old garbage called facts, ideas, exposition and argumentation. Worse, in its dry but wicked British humor way, The Economist completely exposes some of our current idiotic leaders for being the morons they are. That kind of humor wouldn't be allowed here, either. All we get is old school marms who substitute rules for reason and subtract points for creative displays of wit. Where are the emojis for boring and useless?

Huh? Moi?

God bless your soul Joe. I second Tristan's comments. Joe was a sweet and devoted man. I loved his stories about and devotion to his deceased wife, who he stood with through cancer. I loved his devotion to his parents, his brother who passed before him, his big family. I loved his devotion to our family, and to the sweethearts of our community, like Tristan, who he loved. I loved his devotion to knowledge. I loved his hunger for travel and adventure. He was a wicked smart man with a deep sense of decency and humility. He was an inspiration. He made our community a better place. I'll miss you Joe.

Since those who are used to spending a lot of time on this website will have a lot of time on their hands in December, let me propose three potential News Years Resolutions to think about that might guide us as a group in the New Year. And let me say right upfront that this is not my website, or even our website. It is run by somebody else, who is the person that faces legal and financial risk for anything that happens here. Having said that, a website community is a community. And what we post about determines how good and effective a community it is. So here are three New Years Resolutions to think about: 1. It's been about 8 months since FOSTA/SESTA passed. People said it would usher in vast internet censorship and a new Dark Ages for online escorting. Has that actually happened? Or can we conclude that FOSTA/SESTA was really a "Let's Shut Down Backpage Because We Are Tired Of Them Fucking With Us" bill? Has the risk subsided? This is a very tricky question. Rentboy didn't know it was about to be shut down until the day it was shut down, and its computers were seized. Again, I don't get paid to make these tough calls. But one question for the New Year is: do we want to continue to operate like it's open season on websites? Or do we want to operate like the storm has passed? Having spoken all year to lots of posters like Epigonos, there is no question that FOSTA/SESTA is having part of its intended effect. Fear is gradually sucking the life and content out of websites like this, at least as it relates to actual content about escorting. 2. Is there any reason to have a politics forum? I just said the same thing on a post about the crackdown on escorting in North California. If there is anything political that should be unifying and of interest to almost any poster of any political persuasion that posts here, it is the survival of this website, and whether or not there is legal open season on escorts and the people who hire them. I am fully aware there is a difference between a politics forum, and a political action committee. My bias in this discussion is that I spent 20 years as an activist/organizer and I feel like I worked hard and got a lot of important shit done. So, given my biases, it makes absolutely no sense to me that we don't want to unify about political issues relating to escorting that are in our basic political self-interest, but we do want to have toxic political fights about climate change or the Mueller investigation or what happened to some Honduran woman and child who tried to cross the US border. Other people may feel that the greatest thing about America is you can have websites where you have very toxic "blood sports" battles about the important political issues of the day. My read is that the person who actually runs this website decidedly does not feel that way. So if we are not going to use this website to do a single fucking thing about our basic and unifying political self-interests, why do we really need a politics forum at all? 3. I see point one and two as the clouds. This final point is the silver lining on the cloud. Are there things that actually unify us? Is there anything that actually holds this community, as a community, together? I think the answer to that is decidedly yes, and is being expressed as clear as could be in this thread. People like to post about their personal lives, and read about what Basketballer is up to. People like to look at sexy photographs. People like to have a place to ask for information about escorts. People like to go to parties or forums in Palm Springs or DC and meet other people like them, and escorts. People like to say, "Happy Birthday." People like to say, "Happy Holidays." My two cents to Guy and anybody who will listen is simple: focus on the things that unify, and make them better. Shit can the things that divide, and create toxicity. And to be very upfront about my other bias, I'm just a good-hearted whore who likes to cuddle and be tender and play nice. (Most of the time). So Merry Christmas or Happy Hanukkah or Kwanzaa or Jackoff Month or whatever to all. Have fun thinking about what the New Year will bring. And may the New Year find our community stronger, and at peace.

Damn. Me being a dumb whore, I always thought it was arsenic.

Wow. Are you suggesting that a political forum should actually mirror the way politics works in the US? You mean it should not be organized like a little girls' tea party with cookies and little donuts and pink ribbons and Mommy and Daddy making sure that everyone smiles and only says nice things? Wow. What a weird idea. Of course, in relative terms, politics in the US is quite docile. In much of the world if you are a journalist and you write something that Putin or some narco-trafficker doesn't like, you just end up with a bullet in your head. Probably we should not try that here.

Wow. Are you suggesting that a political forum should actually mirror the way politics works in the US? You mean it should not be organized like a little girls' tea party with cookies and little donuts and pink ribbons and Mommy and Daddy making sure that everyone smiles and only says nice things? Wow. What a weird idea. Of course, in relative terms, politics in the US is quite docile. In much of the world if you are a journalist and you write something that Putin or some narco-trafficker doesn't like, you just end up with a bullet in your head. Probably we should not try that here.

Data on Messages, Likes, and Warnings points: Marylander - 62,624 messages, 113,693 likes, 0 warning points William M - 28,414 messages, 59, 530 likes, o warning points JJ Kirkwood - 22,544 messages, 24,486 likes, 10 warning points Stevenkesslar - 8338 messages, 9413 likes, o warning points Kenny - 8,278 messages, 13,102 likes, o warning points Avalon - 8520 messages, 3818 likes, 0 warning points Mike Carey - 7,607 likes, 10,535 likes, 0 warning points Lookin - 4034 messages, 5519 likes, o warnings points Corporate Shill - 1323 messages, 1207 likes, 0 warning points BnaC - 495 messages, 445 likes, 0 warning points Augustus - 253 messages, 118 likes, 0 warning points This is a companion data set to my recommendations above. I thought it would be interesting to compare how different "types" of members rank in terms of how often they post, and how many other members like the content of their posting. I chose certain members to reinforce certain points. One way to look at this list is that everybody offers some content that somebody likes to read. For the conservatives, their "like" rate is about 50 % of the number of messages they post. Members who post a lot of photos like Marylander and William of course get way, way more likes. But it does not surprise me at all that members like Mike Carey and Lookin get relatively high "like" rates - like 50 % above the number of messages they post. They are thoughtful diplomats and peacemakers, and it is no surprise that most members welcome and like them. Kenny's like rate is interesting. Arguably, he can be bitchy and mean - as can I when I choose to be. But his like rate is more than 50 % of his number of posts. People who agree with him obviously like bitchy and pithy and terse. By comparison, I know before I hit the "post" button on some of my long-winded diatribes that most people won't bother to read or "like" it. If this were a reality tv show where we all voted people off the island, you don't have to guess how Kenny and Avalon would fare in a duel. They have about the same number of posts, but Kenny has over triple the number of likes. Sorry, Avalon. In a reality tv concept, you'd be gone by now. Having said that, I'm not sure what the argument is for saying that someone with 3,818 likes has no value to add. Clearly, somebody enjoys what Avalon writes, even if he doesn't measure up to Kenny. All of this is why I mostly feel nobody should be banned, and we should attempt some form of "community policing." And if that doesn't work, we should then ask Guy or Deej to just get rid of the troublemaker. These numbers also confirm my point that we are mostly a like-minded group. The people who post the most and are liked the most are all Gay and liberal to moderate individuals. I think we have the right to be the kind of group we want to be. And I think that it's fair to expect the conservative members at the bottom of the list to try to act like they actually want to be liked and respected. The only person with warning points is JJ Kirkwood, and my guess is that's based on pictures he posted that fell outside the group rules. I don't know that anybody would really give a shit about how many warning points they or others have. But they would give a shit if it meant being timed out for a month. I think the whole concept of "reporting" or "fouling" other members could end up inviting a whole new bunch of nonsense. It would be easy enough to just hit some button because you disagree with someone and you don't want them around. So in order to work, that function would still require as much or more moderation as we have currently. The main advantage I see is that it would allow the group to express it's prevailing sentiment if somebody really annoys them. Maybe that's the tyranny of the majority. But if we don't want to have to constantly be quarreling with people who we have very little in common with, something and somebody is going to have to give.

So here's a few practical suggestions following up on comments by Lookin and Guy. They reflect a few biases of mine I have made very clear. Mostly, I really don't think there is a problem to be solved. Or, if there is a problem, it's a minor one. Beyond that, Guy has made clear that he values his time. So any improvement that requires a lot of code tinkering or time on his part is not really an improvemnt. With that in mind, here's my suggestions, followed by data that drive it: 1. Use the existing forum software (which seems to be standard, since I've seen other forums with similar software) and simply repurpose it slightly. Don't waste a lot of time screwing around with code to solve this problem. 2. Use the "report" button to accomplish the purpose Lookin recommends. and/or 3. Repurpose The Cabana or create a similar new forum to accomplish the purpose Lookin recommends. 4. Either 3 or 4 would require some moderation. This could defeat the purpose, if the purpose is saving moderators time and heartache. 5. So: a primary purpose of 2 and 3 would be to shift moderation of "problem" members and posts from moderators to other members. The goal should be to encourage "community policing." 6. Use the "warning points" count on every member's profile to log how many warnings they have received, consistent with Lookin's recommendations. A certain number of warnings could result in automatic time out, based on clearly established and consistent rules consented to and policed by the group. Now let me explain what I mean by the above to make sure it's completely clear. There are two problems that are being discussed here, as far as I can tell. The first and larger problem is basically Guy's, which has to do with the observance of rules of civility. Again, I don't see this as a problem. I didn't see it as a problem when we had a national leader named Obama who I think encouraged a civil and thoughtful tone. I certainly don't see it as a problem now that we have a national leader named Trump who I think encourages an uncivil, thoughtless, and often untruthful tone. Politics is more like a blood sport than a sweet sixteen party. So I think bloody noses are to be expected. But if Guy has a problem with what some members say or how they say it, he has never hesitated to time them out. If the issue is your time, Guy, then just dump the forum. I see no need for it. As you just said, having it closed for now saves you time and heartache. It has never been, is not now, and never will be a calm and peaceful gentleman's forum. Or, accept that some members here are not quite as insult-laden and untruthful as Trump, but are still far from perfect. Compared to Trump, I think most members here are actually quite civil and thoughtful, and usually factual to boot. I don't think we should be held to a higher standard than POTUS. But that's your call. However you feel, I trust my own political judgment, and I think it's completely unrealistic in this environment to expect anything other than what the current tone is. 75 % of Americans in exit polls just agreed the country is deeply divided, and getting more so. If people who deeply disagree are going to try to talk at all, conflict is what we should expect and tolerate. The second problem, which I suspect is not the same, is that certain members basically wish you, Guy, would shit can a few perceived jerks, who are seen as posting too much useless junk. Avalon appears to be the primary offender. My hunch is also that some members just wish other members would go away. I, for example, find a lot of the right-wing nonsense posted by conservatives like Augustus to be banal, non-factual, and completely thoughtless. Not to mention often steeped in racist and sexist notions, as well. But I'd bet they feel just as negative about me. Other than the fact that they seem to be Gay, which is presumably why they are here, I don't feel any real sense of community of shared values. It's more like we tolerate each other and barely veil the contempt we feel for each other. That, again, would be a good reason for you to just shit can the whole politics forum. The barely veiled contempt serves absolutely no useful purpose. There are some people here who have stated that they enjoy the exchange of ideas, and are consummate diplomats. Lookin and Mike Carey come to mind. There are others who have interesting and popular perspectives, but come with certain types of baggage. Kenny is quite popular, but is super good at dishing out insults. I'm pretty good at that myself, which is why Kenny and I got into an annoying family feud. But more often people give me shit for using too many facts, or charts, or words, and repeating myself. So we all have our shortfalls, I guess. But there is a liberal to moderate consensus among most of the people who post most often here. And for the most part there is a sense of shared values and purpose among us. So, at core, I think this is a fairly functional and agreeable community, with a predominant orientation that is decidely Gay and left-of-center. The purpose of repurposing The Cabana or creating a new forum would be to allow mostly like-minded members like the ones I just mentioned to report and, ideally, resolve perceived communication problems without even having to drag you and Deej into it. The way the conversation in this thread has flowed suggests to me that most like-minded people here are capable of understanding and resolving communication problems on their own, with some nudges by the resident peacemakers and diplomats like Lookin and Mike, among others. One example of how that actually did work in practice, I think, was my feud last year with Kenny. How it started and why it escalated is probably best not addressed. What made it both interesting and weird is that Kenny and I are mostly of like minds politically. So the feud had more to do with tactics, or words, or perhaps just temperament. It got resolved when I posted a "little red warning" alerting Kenny I would report him to you, Guy, if he persisted in flinging insults at me. That did not go down well at all, in the moment. I got push back from almost everyone. Perhaps people thought it was hypocritical of me, since it was clearly "tit for tat." Or perhaps people thought I was usurping some role I should not play. Or perhaps people just liked Kenny and felt like defending him. Regardless, my "little red warning" achieved my goal of causing a stir, and it did get my point across. And that put an end to that. Since then, Kenny and I have gotten along fine. I often agree with him, and hit the "like" button. When I disagree, I just move on. He seems to do the same. Problem solved. Another personal example is that Bigjoey clearly didn't like it when I recently compared him to Joseph Goebbels, which I clearly intended as a bitch slap in response to what I viewed as his sexist perspective in defense of a Republican cover-up. It should shock no one that discussion of the farcical SCOTUS hearings in a politics forum might be contentious. But William chimed in in support of Bigjoey - I suspect mostly because he doesn't like conflict and family feuds. If a Cabana-like forum existed where Bigjoey could "report" me and complain to other members that I hurt his feelings by comparing his ideas to Goebbels, and others chimed in, I suspect we'd be able to work it out, just like Kenny and me did. The biggest problem from my perspective is that there are people here that are outside of and hostile to the norms of the vast majority of members. And they often enough serve the function of an Ann Coulter. I think they annoy me less than they annoy other members, one or more of whom have responded by saying, "Fuck it, I'm out of here." A Cabana-like forum would also be a place where we could try to agreeably resolve how to deal with truly difficult things like that. It could be a place where the vast majority agree, for example, that Avalon either has to significantly alter how he operates here, or we will just vote him off the island. I know how I feel about the issue of being a stranger in a strange land. I've spent a lot of time organizing in the Black community. And as a minority White man in the group, I always assumed that the burden was on me to be very open-minded, very respectful, and very cautious about being the least bit critical. Of course, that's because my agenda was to organize and unify, not disrupt. But speaking from my experience, my approach would be less to censor or ban people, and more to argue that if you want to be a conservative on a mostly liberal Gay website, the burden is on you to treat the rest of community with respect, and make us feel like you actually want to be part of our family. I keep harping on shared values because everything in my experience suggests it is the only way you build and sustain highly functioning communities. I still think using the "report" button or the "warning points" function to time out members based on group input should be a last recourse. I am just deeply against any type of censorship or silencing, and deeply for freedom of speech. Part of it with me is I actually have more tolerance for what I view as useless and inflammatory conservative rant, for example, because I view it as part of a process to give people like Trump the rope they need to hang themselves. From a lot of recent comments it is clear to me that many other thoughtful liberal members of this community feel very differently, and are more sensitive about this than I am. So other than timing people out because you decide to, Guy, I think Lookin's idea of using the existing software and forum structure to let other members direct you or Deej to time certain people out to send them a message is an excellent idea. I suspect that 3 to 6 months of that would solve many of the tone and content problems here.

Hmm. Let me guess. Are you Trevor Noah in disguise? I don't agree with the idea that politics is not personal and serious. But I do agree that treating it the way Noah does - with humor and as a sense of incredulity when you run into a real Bozo - is a good strategy. And Noah talks about how he differs from Jon Stewart and his approach is intentionally age-centric - meaning oriented to a highly educated younger audience that is capable of showing humility and humor.

Happy birthday Kevin. I tried to post a chart of the number of years old you are times the square root of the size of my penis. For some reason,it added up to zero. So I have no chart to offer. Regardless, happy birthday.

Happy birthday, you sweet and sexy man!

Too many to go into. But I'll mention one. All along the way, people kept saying this: "Enjoy it while it lasts." I am so glad I listened to their advice.

Indeed. Dane's dirty. And I'm little. And none of that is exactly secret. Did I mention life is just extremely unfair to me?

Let's just put that idea to bed once and for all, Hunter.

And for the record, given the choice, I'd rather have the small cock than be like the huge asshole.

But I don't look a day over 70. Yes, it's true. At this point I have to settle for returns. Except I call them sloppy seconds. Thanks guys. You are wonderful, and I love being here. And you love me. And I love you. It's all very nice, and I had a nice day.

Honestly, I don't see why every escort on this website does not have a thumbs up. This website is a labor of love. And I made a fortune off it. And in case the FBI or DHS is listening, this website did not make a penny in profit off me. And despite rumors to the contrary, I insist that I am not a whore. Frankly, I don't even know what being a whore is. I'm just a good guy, who believes in truth, justice, and the American way. And the American way is kindness, community, and donation. Escorts are good at having certain parts of their body pop up, I heard. There ought to be thumbs popping up everywhere.

This is correct. As some of you know I led a fundraiser a few years back that stabilized things for a year. Many of you gave, as the little thumbs up sign in your avatar indicates. But I think Epigonos is right. That didn't go far enough. The good news to me is that this is simple. A plan to force everybody to give could weaken or arguably even kill this website. But that's not necessary. I've been giving $50 a month. My guess is that if 50 or so of us, tops, pledged to give $25 or $50 or $100 a month, we'd have permanent sustainability. This site is worth that to me. I'm in for $50 a month. Also, I think it immunizes us from SESTA/FOSTA. Rentboy went down based on two words: "advertising" and "prostitution." Whether either of those words were true or not is irrelevant. It was a blueprint to how the Feds can and probably will attack in the future. The antidote to that are these words: "donation" and "free speech." People who make voluntary donations - not to sell something, but to enjoy their right to free speech - I believe make a website as immune as it can be to government attack. Who's in?

No, I think he just meant that Leos can be bad boys. Which I can certify PK can be. Happy birthday, PK. Hope you are having a wonderful day, and being as bad as you can be! Actually, let's be honest. He's really just a pussycat. http://rs294.pbsrc.com/albums/mm87/Pamelia_and_Stormi_SongBird/Happy%20Birthday%20gofs/happyb-daylioncub.gif~c200

So it's gonna be forever Or it's gonna go down in flames You can tell me when it's over If the high was worth the pain Got a long list of ex-lovers They'll tell you I'm insane 'Cause you know I love the players And you love the game Cherry lips, crystal skies I could show you incredible things Stolen kisses, pretty lies You're the king baby I'm your Queen Find out what you want Be that girl for a month Wait the worst is yet to come, oh no Screaming, crying, perfect storm I can make all the tables turn Rose gardens filled with thorns Keep you second guessing like "Oh my God, who is she?" I get drunk on jealousy But you'll come back each time you leave 'Cause darling I'm a nightmare dressed like a daydream

Happy Birthday Cooper! And thanks for your service to helping moderate this site and keep it going. We're a better community because of you. Steven