Massageislife

I'm glad you didn't post the masseur's name. Based on what you've written, you should have ended the communication when you found out that you that he was conducting business where you wouldn't be comfortable.

Yes! I remove my brakes with the rest of my clothes

I've been wanting more information on him too: https://rentmasseur.com/LATINARABMASSEUR There are a few threads on him

I've got good, strictly therapeutic massages from both Lennie and George (Steinbeck!), who I think are friends. https://www.masseurfinder.com/massage-therapists/38637/

I saw him once, before the revealing pics were added. He massaged in the nude, though, allowed MT and more, and offered HE without upsell. The massage was just okay. Some of his conversation was personal in a way that was a little offputting

Yeah, it was heartbreaking, because I like him, but a 50% cancellation rate is too much!

No advice to give, but I'm thrilled and envious! I hope you'll report how it goes!

To be a broken record, masseurs who list erotic massage and a price but then try to charge more for erotic massage are engaging in false advertising. Please let us know whoever does this. As for Caleb, I saw him three times in NYC in 2018. He gave a great massage, was nude (I hear he is a nudist), was comfortable with extensive MT, and offered HE. The third time, I massaged him for a bit. One of my best massage experience ever. His rate was high, but there was no upcharge. The pictures are accurate, and he's friendly in a mellow, low-key way. I only stopped seeing him because he cancelled the same day three times. It was just too stressful wondering if I was really going to get a massage.

A lot of us (unfortunately) have a specific attraction to men who claim to be straight. A straight guy sexually aroused when interacting with another man is a paradox, however. For me, it's too simplistic or just inaccurate to use that term to describe his sexual identity that way (which is not to say he is "gay" either). Of course, he has a right to call himself whatever he wants, but perhaps we need to turn to young people, who have been pretty good at coming with many more and more nuanced ways of marking sexual identity. I've been to the Adonis nude party many times over the years. Most dancers at these parties get hard during lap dances, and many engage in more explicit sexual conduct with attendees, sometimes without even going behind the screens. Many have offered to give me their phone numbers for private sessions. I think almost all of them are open to that. In my experience, the majority haven't claimed to be straight or bisexual, but I don't ask. It's actually a turn-off when they feel they have to volunteer that they're "straight," no matter whether they're doing it because they think it might turn me on or because they want to reassure themselves. I guess the bottom line is when I go to a scene like Adonis, I try to accept that the truth of their sexual identity and their private sexual life isn't something I'm entitled to know. I just try to enjoy having a naked, aroused man in my lap.

Public_assistance, I agree with you about Omar. I posted positive things about him. I also don't have an issue with what a masseur charges, but I hope the price he posts is accurate. If the price varies according to the type of massage, he should list the different prices or write "Ask" next to the price, as many masseurs do. I also hope my brothers will share information about masseurs who upcharge, especially for basic, advertised services. As for the rest of what you write, typing the world "massage" in all caps doesn't clarify what you mean by the term. Obviously, a masseur is different from an escort, but erotic m4m massage is different from legit therapeutic massage, and you know it. A large part of the value of this site for me are the discussions about what constitutes an erotic massage and specific experiences my brothers have had with erotic masseurs, and I'll keep coming back for this reason.

"When I quote you, I'm not responding to you." "Words mean nothing." You're a piece of work, dude!

Roger, you're obviously addressing me directly, when you preface your remarks with quotes from things I've written. Nobody else is weighing in here (and I don't blame them!). If you think the words, "sensual" and "erotic," mean nothing in the context not just of Rentmasseur but on this forum, where they are frequently and commonly used, then there isn't much more to say here. Be well

Well, I appreciate your taking the time to write, but it feels like we're talking past each other. Words like "sensual" and "erotic" mean something generally (otherwise language wouldn't function at all), and posters on this site have helped me get clearer sense of what people on both sides of the transaction mean when they use them. I'm not asking for advice on how to talk to masseurs, especially once we've had our initial meeting. I'm also not asking how to get my "fantasy massage." I'm not asking for something rigid, like a "ruIe book" or a "guarantee." And, finally, I know there are no universal experiences of anything in life, especially something complicated like massage. Maybe your phrase, "guide book," is a better way to put it. Before I found this site, my experience was much more mixed. Having a community to discuss (in both public and private messages) their experiences with specific masseurs and the m4m massage experience in general hasn't turned getting an erotic massage into utopia, but the collective guidance here has been really helpful. I wish you the best

Roger, I can only describe the sense I get from the discussions on this forum. I've never seen a poster express outrage or even surprise (maybe disappointment, which is something different) that their sensual or erotic massage didn't include oral sex. They only report happy surprise when it does happen. I've seen lots of advice, on the other hand, that if oral sex, for example, is actually what one is looking for, one should be hiring an escort, at the requisite rate. I haven't seen many (any) complaints when a masseur offered extras, depending on their personal policies or mood and the chemistry with an individual client. That's different than expecting free extras, however, and, for what it's worth, I hope that people tip in proportion to the amount of "extras" they get. That's what I would feel I deserved, if I were a masseur. Likewise, I gather from my reading of postings on this site that there are indeed commonsensical, general (not universal) things members of this community understand that differentiate m4m massage from "legit" therapeutic massage. Those things are the reason that we pay so much more for this type of massage; if we opt for sensual or erotic massage, we are contracting for something more than "some form of massage." Again, I fear that you and I are missing each other in this conversation. I don't believe that you are saying that we can't expect anything more than a massage when we hire a private sensual or erotic masseur; nor are you saying, I'm sure, that kissing, rimming, sucking, and/or fucking are reasonable expectations to place on someone advertising erotic massage for, say, $150/hr. I'm not sure what your disagreement with me is. What do you are think the minimal elements of a massage advertised on an m4m site as "sensual," without which a client has a right to be disappointed and complain, for example, on a forum like this? (I only get erotic or therapeutic massage, since the middle ground of "sensual" is murky to me.) I'm counting on my brothers here to tell me, among other things, when a masseur advertising and charging for a sensual or erotic massage does nothing more than I would have gotten from a much cheaper legit massage. I like discussions on this forum about what we think words like "sensual" or "erotic" in a masseur's advertisement mean. I started a thread recently about "erotic massage" in particular. It seemed from the many posts that there was general agreement that nudity, some degree of mutual touch, and non-avoidance of the ass and penis were reasonable things to expect--without upcharge--when one paid for an erotic massage. (Some people seemed to think HE was also a component of an erotic massage.) Everyone also seemed to agree that anything sexual beyond that was delightful but not part of the initial deal. Every sexual thing possible can happen in an m4m massage context (most of them have happened to me), and undoutedly that's where "looks and chemistry" play a role. I just hope we'll alert each other to masseurs who don't follow through on the basic sensual or erotic elements of massage as advertised just because they're having an off day or the client isn't good-looking/provides the requisite chemistry with them. Genuine professionals--in any profession--don't fail to discharge their basic functions, just because they're not feeling chemistry with a client.

Just saw Lennie and everything on this thread is spot-on. I'm definitely going to be a return customer. Cute just like his pictures. Strictly therapeutic (though shirtless ?), but he's gay and clearly comfortable with the natural sensuality of male/male massage. I didn't see any signs that he is as open to more. He was very elbowy, as some wrote, but I liked it, and he he was very communicative about if I thought the pressure was right, so I'm sure he'll modify that for those who like something different.

Roger, although I am definitely a little bit sentimental about something I love as much as m4m massage and protective of the fragility of its intimacy (and as long as it's illegal, its risk), I don't think I'm being unrealistic here. You're no doubt right about the history of m4m massage and how its hustle elements derive from its lying somewhere on a continuum of sex work. Things are changing, though. In New York now, for example, it looks likely that sex work will soon be decriminalized. It will be so good for all of us--masseurs and clients--when it is. Until then, I hope we're all committed to treating masseurs (and escorts, if you're on that page of the site) with professionalism. Likewise, I also want the participants on this site to alert us to all the hustlers out there. You're right: some of us are going to go for a hustler anyway, but we can help each other be more open-eyed about what we might be getting. That's the problem with your moving to the example of being willing to pay extra for a blowjob. It distracts, I think, from what this discussion is about. Anyone who expects a blowjob (or kissing or rimming or fucking) to be included in the price of a sensual or erotic massage is way out of line, and we should tell them so. My point is not about "extras" that go beyond what I sense is the general, almost universal understanding of the members of this community about what should be expected in a sensual or erotic massage. I don't mind hearing that such extras are available for a price, but what I really want, along with accounts of positive experiences with specific masseurs, is a heads-up for what you call "hustles." That includes, on the most serious end, of things like physically dangerous situations or outright financial scams, to other, lesser forms of misrepresentation, from catfishing to dated pictures and surprise upcharges for generally agreed-upon sensual and erotic basics. If, for example, a masseur advertising erotic massage, posting a rate of, say, $160/hr., and including shirtless or nude photos tells us when we arrive that it will be extra to perform shirtless or nude, to touch them in any way, of not to not avoid our dick or ass, my wish is that will be part of what we write on this site, if we decide to post about them.

I'm glad you shared this. I enjoyed my experience with Omar, but that's unacceptable. He lists both sensual and erotic massage as possibilities, with a price ($160/hr.) that is typical for erotic massage (not to mention pictures that indicate he will be nude or nearly so). I want the m4m experience to be as little of an underground one as possible. I treat masseurs extremely professionally, which they deserve. It's highly unprofessional, however, to advertise sensual/erotic massage at a certain rate but then expect customers to ask if that's really the rate they will pay. (I'm not talking about "extras" that move into the area of escorting.)

No, I'm not saying that. In a sexist culture--which all cultures are to varying degrees, unfortunately-- men and women are kept in their place (which is with men in a generally dominant position) by rigidly defining what men and women can be. Sexual interest in men has always been defined as a feminine thing, which is a way of stigmatizing women who desire other women and of stigmatizing men who desire men. We've all got age, race, size, and gender performance preferences when it comes to sexual attraction, but it's painful to see the most damaging ones ("no fats, no femmes," "I'm not into [name the race] guys") show up on a site like this, which, at it's best, can be a place of real pleasure, humor, and support for each other.

He lists $160/hr., which is what I paid last year ($240 for 90 min). Are you saying he upchatged for basic sensual elements?

I saw Miguel again at his place in Union City. I was clear that I was interested in more erotic elements, and he included them.

So sexy, but WAY TOO MUCH DICK!!

to me the YMMV can be helpful but only as to indicate that a profile that i may have assumed was strictly massage (based on its presentation), that it may be ok under the appropriate circumstances to inquire with that masseur about extra services not mentioned but i don't assume or expect to necessarily get the same results. GTMike, thank you for posting on this thread. You bring back happy and embarrassing memories from when I started my own m4m massage journey 4 or 5 years ago. As for what you write about YMMV, that is also the only way I would use that acronym (which I don't), but what you explain about your usage is so much clearer than the acronym itself, the YMMV seems superflous, if not confusing

Lots of realities are pretty mean. ?

Yeah, I've always disliked the anti-short guy bias. I've been amazed by the number of heterosexual women who talk about a guy being shorter than them as a deal-breaker! Gay men have to do better than that!

Smurof, thank you for posting on this thread! You don't really address the issue of the use of the term YMMV, but I hope we don't use it to signal to others "I take care of myself and look great, so you might not get the extras I do." That would be cruel. Your comments about the client's attractiveness do interest me. I think I'll start a new thread!