Massageislife

Mplsgymguy, thank you for posting in this thread. The line you quote of mine is different Mplsgymguy, thanks for posting on this thread. I'm not sure why you quoted the specific line from my post that you do. One of the main things I look for on this site is reliable information on who provides the basics (not "extras" like kissing, sex, etc.) of erotic massage that I list. (On another thread, I have asked what people think "erotic massage" generally entails.) What I always appreciate in this regard is information about masseurs who advertise and charge for erotic but don't follow through. "YMMV" isn't helpful in this regard. If masseur is engaging in false advertising, I hope we'll all name it as such. You seem to be talking about the opposite thing: masseurs who offer more than they advertise. To reply "not in my experience" to someone who has indicated that their experience was only therapeutic gives a bit more information than "YMMV," I guess. (I mean, everything is more information than that phrase, in the way that many on this site use it, which is just to acknowledge the obvious truth that masseurs and clients are individuals and their interactions are always going to differ.) What would be more useful, in a case like this, I think, would be for you to share that your experience suggests that the masseur may be open to more and if an upcharge is involved. I hope the forum member in your final example did that for you, but anything beyond what a masseur advertises is never something we can--or have the right to--count on.

Hornytwells, comments that appear to be baseless attacks on masseurs should be condemned, but I don't think you are saying that any of the negative comments about Ryan are baseless. What I am suggesting is that there is a difference between posting positive experiences about masseurs and "defending" them. What suggests an "agenda," to use your word, is going beyond adding one's positive experience to the discussion by moving onto language which seems to challenge or excuse other, less positive experiences. It is enough, for example, for you to say that he has usually been reliable in his appointments with you. You go beyond that, however, when you write that you "never...heard of him doing such a thing" as being unreliable. You, in fact, heard it from this very thread! Likewise, posting your own attitude towards Ryan's level of talkitiveness is appropriate, but it's bewildering to me why you would feel the need to tell us that "many people I know like to relax in a massage and not converse." We can speak for ourselves, and the posters in this thread have. The same goes for this comment of yours: "I have read several posts from people on here who hate chatty masseurs and complain that they talk too much." Again, we don't need you to tell us what others think. We can read. Your engaging in this kind of rhetoric is what makes your post seem like advocacy. I'm glad you have had good experiences with Ryan, but good masseurs don't need defenders. Their work and positive comments posted about them on this site are sufficient.

Yes, apparently he was a professional, acrobatic dancer. Per Harryinny's recommendation, however, "Max" is my"go-from" masseur

Please, someone try him out. So cute!

Ah, Gustavo ?

Hornytwells, by "both ways" do you mean that we should avoid writing malicious responses whose purpose is just to harm a masseur's reputation? I think we all agree that's also not the purpose of this site. The negative experiences with Ryan described above, however, don't have that character. I want to know if a masseur has smelled bad, shorted a client on time, cancelled at the last minute, or was chatty. You don't appear to be suggesting that these weren't the experiences of others. There is no need to try to "balance out" experiences that are different than your own. It's enough to add them to the mix.

I think the point here is to consider our roles on this site. I certainly want to hear about masseurs with whom our comrades have had good (as well as bad) experiences; that's the main reason why we come here. It's when praise seems to grade into advocacy for a masseur, sometimes in the form of seeming to challenge negative experiences of others, that positive comments lose their value or even become suspect.

I mostly agree except for that last, parenthetical remark. My hope is that we can agree on basics, like a massage advertised as erotic and costing $150-60/hr. has some basic, agreed upon parameters

Yeah, sometimes guys have come right out and said that! Not helpful.

$120 for an in-call. That's reasonable for an undraped massage by a hot guy. I generally want a combination therapeutic/erotic massage, however, and that rightly costs more.

"A non-sexual interaction with a hot guy" when his hands are rubbing my naked body for 90 minutes is not conceivable, but that's considering "sexual" quite broadly. If a masseur is sending me clear vibes that he is not also sexually engaged (is nude, is aroused, is encouraging me to touch him, is stimulating my erotic zones, etc.), I won't get hard, but I'll feel aroused and distracted by sexual thoughts. That's what can be unpleasant about a strictly therapeutic massage from a guy I'm attracted to.

EVdude, I hear you! I've gone to George twice, and I'll probably go again, but I'm conflicted. I don't want to spend any time during a therapeutic massage hoping that it will turn erotic. It's hard not to imagine it, however, with such a good-looking guy, pun intended. Unfortunately, although I'm pretty sure that George is gay, there aren't any signs, at least in my interactions with him, that he will move in a more erotic direction. A deep dig from the hands of someone so attractive--he really is a model--is "erotic," but that edging thing is just torture, if it doesn't pay off in the end. In videos it always does!

Thanks, Frank!

A thread on him detailing someone's successful tracking down of George's Instragram account and modeling pages, which offer stunning genuine images of him, pushed me into going for it (although I almost always opt for someone advertising erotic massage on rentmasseur.) George has an appealing personality. His massage was deep and skilled. My experiences with him, sadly, are strictly therapeutic. He doesn't even remove his shirt.

Redwine, I get what you say. I just initiated a thread about the term, "YMMV." I think what you're saying is that YMMV may be useful when we get the sense that our experience--good or bad--may be typical, and we want to qualify what we've written.

NYCman, thank you for posting on this thread. What you say is really useful, perfect really!

Very useful reply! I'm just learning that knowing more about my comrades on this site is another way of using it more effectively.

Monarchy, thank you for responding to your post. It means a lot to me, coming from you, who is an active and valuable participant in this site. I've been following--struggling not to weigh in on--your discussion on the "good attitude" thread. Race and racism is one of the often brutal dimensions of m4m massage--and every human, including sexual, interaction. I also appreciate your putting my post in the context of my others too, but I think you are not reading what I'm saying correctly (I also acknowledge that I may not always be communicating effectively!). I don't believe in an ideal massage world (or any ideal world), and I don't want the same experience from all masseurs (or even the same masseur, if I see him more than once). I am not looking for an escort (although I'm sure I will someday; it sounds fun!). I also don't see this site as a place to direct me to masseurs who give escort-style extras. I find it somewhat distasteful, in fact, when posters seem to be bragging that they got sex for the price of a massage. It's exciting to get more than the basics of an erotic massage, but it's disrespectful to expect or even ask (at least in the initial outreach) for more than masseurs are advertising. And if they give "more," which is delightful, I hope the client tips appropriately (i.e., escort price). I guess everyone has some deep desire for the "ideal" massage, but I understand that the ideal is, in its pure form, not possible in this vale of sorrows called life. Before I found this site, however, I hired several masseurs I would never have chosen, once I had started using it. I rarely have massages now that I leave disappointed from, and I owe that, in large part, to my brothers on this site. The couple of threads I've initiated, however, are attempts to be part of making this site even better. Even great things can be better. I think we can help each other understand what to expect generally and from specific masseurs, especially when it comes to what constitutes an erotic massage. We all already know what a "legit," therapeutic massage is. What hasn't been helpful in anticipating if a masseur will provide erotic "basics" (I'm not talking about kissing, sucking, rimming, fucking, much less "connection") is when a poster writes, "YMMV." If YMMV means a masseur advertising erotic massage may not disrobe, may keep away from any of my own touching, and may avoid my private parts, I wish the poster would write that instead. That flags false advertising. Too often, too, YMMV also seems like an opportunity to boast ("I got extras, but I've got a big dick / I'm young / I'm good looking / I'm irresistible, so YMMV."). We all know our place in the "marketplace of desire," so that use of YMMV can feel a little punishing. Finally, I've gotten "extras" many times myself, but if someone PMs me about a masseur who gave them to me, I always try to emphasize that I don't know if that is a standard part of their massage. I don't think it's necessary to add "YMMV," since I think everyone understands what I mean.

It makes MORE than sense! Thank you for replying to my post!

Evdude, thanks for replying to this post! What situation are you describing? Is this hypothetical masseur someone advertising erotic massage? If so, then he is, I think, advertising that he massages in the nude. I don't think adding YMMV is helpful, unless you suspect that he doesn't get naked with others, despite his advertisement. If a therapeutic masseur gets naked for you, I guess it can be helpful to add YMMV, especially if you got the sense that he didn't ordinarily do this. I don't think it's necessary to add this, though, since others shouldn't be expecting someone they've hired (and paid) for therapeutic massage to get naked.

One of my only frustrations with this site, which is otherwise one of the greatest things I've ever run across on-line, is the confusing way that the phrase, "Your mileage may vary" (YMMV), is used. I don't use this phrase in my own postings because I'm not sure what it conveys to people, but perhaps a discussion might help clarify it. I welcome your input! My own understanding of "YMMV" is that it refers to things, beyond the basic services contracted for, that some clients may experience but others may not. This includes 1) ineffable things that are not possible for a masseur to advertise or guarantee (connection, enthusiasm, etc.) or 2) sexual things beyond what the masseur explicitly advertises: for therapeutic: anything sensual at all; for sensual: anything beyond non-sexual elements that give the body pleasure; for erotic: anything beyond mutual nudity, basic MT, and non-avoidance of the genitals and ass (most of us, I think, also see of HE as part of erotic massage). If we get something beyond what we contract for, perhaps it's appropriate to post something about it, and then, I guess, adding "YMMV" could be additional information. For me, however, there isn't a lot of value in writing "YMMV," since I think all of us understand that our individual interaction with a masseur will be unique in some way. If a therapeutic masseur got naked or an erotic masseur kissed us, I think it's a given that others can't expect the same. (Hope springs eternal though!) What YMMV does NOT mean, however, is that a masseur may offer what he advertises to some clients and not others (or to others for an additional charge), and I hope that we won't use the term that way. I go to this site, in part, to find out if masseurs' ads are honest (i.e., that their pictures are accurate and that they follow through on the services they advertise without upcharge). What I want, in this regard, from my brothers on this site is a warning about masseurs whose ads are dishonest; that is, the pictures are dated or not of them and if, specifically, they advertise and charge for erotic massage but don't follow through or attempt to upcharge for any of its elements. When someone has experienced this kind of "false advertising" with a masseur, I appreciate their posts about it. What is frustrating is when I get the sense that posters are covering up or avoiding the mention of such shortcomings by writing "YMMV." When we know that a masseur is not advertising honestly, I hope that we will let each other know.

There seems to be universal agreement that Rainer is sexy (i.e., looks like his pictures) and does offer an erotic experience (nude, MT, genital/anal contact), so I don't think "YMMV" applies here, but maybe I don't understand what many of us mean by that phrase. I'm going to start a thread.

There's one next Saturday. They're great!

That's annoying. His ad lists sensual and erotic massage at a price of $160. I don't know whether he has raised his price and hasn't changed the ad or is upcharging--which is a deal-breaker for me. It's one reason I don't ask, specifically, for a sensual or erotic experience when I make an initial outreach. He's advertising sensual and erotic massage for $160. Any additional charges means false advertising.

He's a really cute kid, but Newnew was advertising under a different name (Danger!), and, unfortunately, I don't remember what it was. I need to keep better records